what do the death subfactions need?

[wayniac]

What is part of the problem IMHO is that in fantasy (the genre), your heroes lead from the front.  In AOS you hide then way in the back instead of having the heroically leading their men.

[zachariah_d]

What is part of the problem IMHO is that in fantasy (the genre), your heroes lead from the front.  In AOS you hide then way in the back instead of having the heroically leading their men.

I agree. From my FeQ games, I WANT my badass ghoul lords and courtiers to rippfaces off. But they usually have to hide behind terrain or die instantly in a hail of arrows (or whatever). It removes a lot of fun from the game. Your opponent knows the leaders buff and regen your units. Making them kill target #1. But they can't take a beating, with their ****** save and low h
HP. Giving them some durability, especial y if it were optional and had opportunity cost (allegiance trait for FeQ) would make it more fun/interesting AND force player choice. (do I kill the leader? Vs ALWAYS kill the leader)
And forcing choices is what makes this a game vs just waving spreadsheets at each other.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[bonzai]

Great topic!

 

Flesh Eater Courts: fine model and formation wise, just need faction specific rules like the newer books. Biggest drawback to this is figuring out what could possibly be an attractive alternative to the death save.

 

Death Rattle: first off, I would love to see a Lich hero. This would give the faction an important caster option. Second I would like to see several of the old Tomb King Deathrattle units officially moved into the faction. This would be a boon to the Tomb King players out there and allow them to continue play a large chunk of their army if they do get squated. The skeletal warriors are already comparable, as are Tomb guard for grave guard, and skeletal horsemen for black knights. In addition I would like to see Archers, screaming skull catapults (replacing necrotect with Deathrattle hero), tomb heralds, and bone Giants (adding keyword Deathrattle to it and replacing necrotect with Deathrattle hero). This would allow existing Tomb King players to get some mileage out of their armies, while keeping the door open for future non Egyptian themed re-releases. Do this and you would have a complete and well rounded army.

 

Night Haunt: first off add the fricking night Haunt keyword to the Mortis engines. Second I would like to remove the hero key words from banshees and Cairn Wraiths and allow them to be taken in units of 1-3 again. Remove the Hero key word from the black coach. Add several new heroes including a nasty melee hero and a caster variant. Since we are wish listing I would also like to see a ghost mortarch. Maybe even the ghost of Kemmler or Isabel von carstien.

 

Soul blight: make fell bats and or bat swarms battle line. Come out with some sort of vampire infantry unit.

 

Deathwalker: Add Necromancers (thereby getting rid of the death mage faction). Add riderless zombie dragons. Lastly some sort of zombie shock troops. 

 

Suggested new faction? Mummy's!

Really, what else is left? (Except maybe vampire corsairs). This would find a home for a chunk of the remaining Tomb King models. Would also like to see Setra remade as a Mortarch.

[Wolden Spoons]

I wonder if the success of Tomb Kings is holding this faction back? In which case Tomb Kings need a Battletome. Pretty easy fix. 

Then some kind of Vampire Counts mix. Just as a start. Maybe an update to FEC. Basically bring Death at least in line with Destruction. 

[Teletomas]

2 hours ago, bonzai said:

Since we are wish listing I would also like to see a ghost mortarch. Maybe even the ghost of Kemmler or Isabel von carstien.

 

 

YES! Very cool idea.

Give us a new book and a ghost mortarch... plus some minor running model releases... 

[Sception]

If we're pulling from the old world, the best candidate for a ghost mortarch is Dieter, who, during the End Times, was transformed into a ghostly supernatural entity that managed the underworlds for Nagash so that the big guy could focus on his mortal campaigns.

[Blood&skulls]

Krell. Can we just have krell back as a badass character?

[discoking]

7 hours ago, Blood&skulls said:

Krell. Can we just have krell back as a badass character?

And Vlad..I miss Vlad

[Rob Hawkins]

I think Nighthaunt is the most interesting sub faction.  Currently:

Wraith, Banshee, Hexwraiths, Spirit hosts (battleline), Black Coach.

I think the Coach is more appropriate for Soulblight (it IS carrying a Vampire, after all).  Maybe it could do double duty.  And I agree with the consensus that the Mortis Engine should be in Soulblight. 

Some new things I'd like to see:  A wraith hero that doubles as a wizard with a command ability, and maybe has the option for a mount.  Then "regular" wraiths could be in infantry units (small, elite units), with a better monster as an alternative to the Mourngul.

Deathmages and Deadwalkers could be merged into a single faction:  Necromancers, zombies, and wolves, with the Corpse Cart.  Then they would do well with some larger constructs.

But I think the undead do well when they are all working together, and that's still how they really need to be played to have a viable army.  It can get very theme-y when you have a certain style of vampire like the old bloodlines.  I think the Vargheists are more in line with the Strigoi-ish ghoul kings.  I also like to run the wolves and bats with them, all of the "animals" together in one feral aspect.  Then the vampires with more martial discipline lead troops like knights and infantry and things that fit in a more organized "army" structure.

[Circus of Paint]

Two words; Zombie Pirates.

??

Seriously though, Deathrattle could certainly do with some of the elements from the old Lichemaster / Barrows 6th edition list - Barrow-Kings on Chariots, animated stone Simulacra, Shadow-Druids for magic / summoning support etc.

Nighthaunts could easily have another more numerous but weaker Battleline unit like the current Spirit Hosts. Could also been a good chance to explore how Malignants possess some of the deceased denizens of the Mortal Realms (perhaps some inferior, flawed copy of Stormcast Eternals?).

Deathmages should be cross-faction for those without internal magic support of their own. Simple.

There's probably some other things, but those are my immediate thoughs.

Still though GW - do consider some form of wacky nautical-based walking corpses, yeah? ??

[FRoper]

On 22/04/2017 at 8:37 AM, Sception said:

If we're pulling from the old world, the best candidate for a ghost mortarch is Dieter, who, during the End Times, was transformed into a ghostly supernatural entity that managed the underworlds for Nagash so that the big guy could focus on his mortal campaigns.

He would be awesome, i especially like the zombie pirate idea, although i doubt that would happen.

Again why bastidized stormcasts, why carn't Nagash be awesome and create his own cool unit, not just copying Sigmar.

Deathrattle: We have some awesome idea--Well done. here is an idea is there any program that allows us to ceate our own warscroll as people could create them and post them on the forum.

Death mages, need to be combined with death walkers into one fraction with some kind of large Zombie monster, and maybe a kind of mid tier zombie unit,??? even some kind of special necromancer character, give him a flying mount like a hellsteed.

I think the mortis engine should really be in malignants, while coach in soul blight.

 

[Circus of Paint]

Deathlords certainly need a smaller Morghast pure-Battleline equivalent, something the gaming-equal of low-level Stormcast Eternal.

Deathwalkers could go with something along the lines of a Terrorghast or Zombie Dragon. The Corpsemaster (from the Corpse Cart) being available on foot as well would be nice, a dirt-cheap buffer piece to drive Zombies forward. 

Deathrattle could have Liches replacing Necromancers (which opens them up to go Deathwalker-exclusive instead of being in its own mini-faction).

[bonzai]

I have been thinking of what units that could be added to night haunts. Again I would like to see Cairn Wraiths and banshee's have the hero keyword removed and be allowed in units of 1-3 again.

1. Death Knight: mounted melee hero. Designed to be center piece unit. Should have some sort of mortal wound/death touch mechanic, and of course fly and ethereal. Make it a caster as well.

2. Spectral Mage: a less expensive caster hero. Gives the faction a much needed additional caster.

3. Torn on a name for this, specters, shades, apparitions, but basically cheap battle line fodder that can be taken in large blocks, and gain models back for enemy models they kill, as the souls of their enemies join their ranks.

plus the Mortis engine and a ghost mortarch.

On the topic of Mortarchs, I would love to see more of a tie in for them. Basically have one to Lord over each death faction.

There are 7 Death factions right now, and Nagash seems to favor having 9 Mortarch's at a time. My thoughts on this are;

1. Death Lords: Manfred

2. Death mages: Arkhan

3. Deathrattle: New mounted Krell.

4. Deathwalker: some one new.

5. Flesh Eater Courts: Ushoran. Nagash finally finds him and yokes him to his will.

6. Nighthaunts: the spirit of one of the destroyed old world characters, re-envisioned as a ghost.

7. Soulblight: Neferata.

This leaves room for two new factions and associated Mortarchs. My thoughts?

8. Mummy's: led by Setra of course!

9. Death Cultists: mortal followers of Nagash. His re-imagining of the mortuary priests of  Nehekhara that he ascended from in his mortal days.

[Sception]

14 hours ago, FRoper said:

Again why bastidized stormcasts, why carn't Nagash be awesome and create his own cool unit, not just copying Sigmar.

It's not about copying Sigmar, it's about taking back from Sigmar what rightfully belongs to Nagash in the first place.  Nagash's whole plot arc in AoS so far has revolved around attempting to achieve just that.

[shinros]

Well... he just wants their souls along with marked chaos not to replicate them since those two forces are circumventing the life cycle and depriving nagash of power. Also if I wanted to play a stormcast like army I would play stormcast or chaos. The gameplay for Death needs to be different. Looking at shadespire I think GW is aware of this. 

I would like a unit that posses old armor sort of thing along with a hero but that's as far as it should go. Also I think it's telling that a lot of the heroes command abilities and spells work cross faction using the death keyword instead of their in faction key word. Like the other grand alliances. 

[Sception]

what, like the wight kings?  tomb kings?  all the ghoul stuff?  the only reasons we don't have more interfaction synergy than we already have (which is a lot) is because our faction is too small and our subfactions insufficiently fleshed out, that's the entire point of this thread.

[Mohawk_Monkey]

Maybe a tanky unit that counts as a hero for the purpose of command abilities and skelly buffs. Kind of like how  "Envoys of the Everqueen" works for Kurnoth hunters. Then it might be less debilitating to lose 5 wound heroes. It might fit comfortably in the deathlords faction. That or just give the ability to morghasts - keeping the same points they currently have as, personally i think they are a little too high in cost. (still a good unit just over costed in comparison with similar troops).

E.g Unit of skellies not in range of a hero but still in range of a tanky unit still receive the bonus to hit from "serve in death". You could also "danse macabre" a unit within 8" of the tanky unit or 18" of the Necromancer. 

Just an idea.

 

I'm trying to avoid suggesting a ton of ranged units (though ranged spells would be different) as I kind of like the idea of a silent march of undead things under a hail of gunfire. Desperate defenders trying to stand their ground before being overrun feels very cinematic and GA: Death.

A spell that adds -1 rend (does not stack with other bonuses but does with existing rend) could be quite tasty.

A spell that boosted hit might also be quite nice to allow some greater MW output from Nighthaunt units in the face of to hit debuffs too.

 

I'd like Nagash to be reworked somewhat to maybe see occasional play too. 

 

Maybe some reworking of the summoning rules or pop up style rules for weaker units if certain heroes are included?

 

TBH I'd just like some more flavorful ways of getting large units of skellies into combat with their buffs in tact.

 

Oh and for black knights to get 2 attacks and -1 rend (currently their horses have dealt more damage for me).

[mmimzie]

I pretty much agree with the OP here??  I feel death has some real factions in it, but each jsut need something small. Plus, the flexibility of summoning allows your subfaction not to limit you too much.  

Really most of the factions would be cool with and allegiance ability and maybe a spell lore to shore up weaknesses. 

FEC just needs a new book with an alliegence ability and they'll probably work pretty good. 

Nighthaunt: Would be good if these were death's mageless faction like stormcast eternals or Khorne bloodbound. 

Deathmage/Deathwalker: Really just needs to be a thing Give them some spells and a summoning based alliegence ability, and your gravy. 

 

[Squirrelmaster]

On 23/04/2017 at 2:14 PM, FRoper said:

Deathrattle: We have some awesome idea--Well done. here is an idea is there any program that allows us to ceate our own warscroll as people could create them and post them on the forum.

http://runebrush.pa-sy.com/warscroll/