Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[DynamicCalories]

Prices on the balloon guys is fine too, will be grabbing a box of those after i've finished my arkanauts!

Dredging up the old "are GW telling me how to paint my models?" issue - page 77 of the Battletome actually states it doesn't matter at all!

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Barak means port from the old dawi hold called Barak Var. Mine are from the old Warhammer karak Ekrund. The Unbaraki is for a full part where they got betrayed by fellow dawi so turned on them in return 

[Spinsane]

12 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

Dredging up the old "are GW telling me how to paint my models?" issue - page 77 of the Battletome actually states it doesn't matter at all!

I think you're reading this differently from how I do, then... They're saying paint 'em however you like. They're not saying this has no impact on the rules.

Page 76 actually says the exact opposite of what you just said:

In the case of the Kharadron Overlords, the colour scheme you choose may well determine what special rules and abilities your army will benefit from on the tabletop (pg 91).

[Naflem]

30 minutes ago, Spinsane said:

I think you're reading this differently from how I do, then... They're saying paint 'em however you like. They're not saying this has no impact on the rules.

Page 76 actually says the exact opposite of what you just said:

 

 

Oh well that seems to make page 91 even more clear.

[Spinsane]

3 hours ago, Naflem said:

Oh well that seems to make page 91 even more clear.

Yeah, not exactly my cup of tea, and definitely something people will (in characterfully dwarven behaviour) begrudge, but I think the book is relatively clear on this; if you want to benefit from the added bonuses a skyport offers, the book states you need to paint your army in that port's colours. Otherwise, you're free to use the generic Kharadron Code Artycle/Amandment/Footnote combinations or Order (why would you, unless you're not playing exclusively KO)...

You're free to play it however you please, and people have been arguing since forever that they can paint their models however they see fit, but whoever does so is house-ruling it and MUST remember that some TOs might not allow it.

[Joakim]

28 minutes ago, Spinsane said:

Yeah, not exactly my cup of tea, and definitely something people will (in characterfully dwarven behaviour) begrudge, but I think the book is relatively clear on this; if you want to benefit from the added bonuses a skyport offers, the book states you need to paint your army in that port's colours. Otherwise, you're free to use the generic Kharadron Code Artycle/Amandment/Footnote combinations or Order (why would you, unless you're not playing exclusively KO)...

You're free to play it however you please, and people have been arguing since forever that they can paint their models however they see fit, but whoever does so is house-ruling it and MUST remember that some TOs might not allow it.

I think your post does not reflex what the books says.

 

the books is vague on the point. Interpretations are plenty and so far I know of no to saying that your KO models needs to be painted.

 

the term "may well determine" is not a very strict wording and i would not put much into it.

 

its sad that we have to spend time on this destructive issue when we could be having a constructive hobby talk instead.

 

do it your own way. It's your hobby and likely it'll never be cleared out for sure (would it be in gw interest to do so? Likely not anyway)

 

more photos of wip and tales of new skyport please : )

[Spinsane]

Seriously, all I'm saying is you're free to do as you want, but you shouldn't be surprised if some day you see a TO say your army needs to be painted inthe skyport's colors or you use the generic KO code rules.

It will happen. Not necessarily to you, or to me, but it will. Just don't cry foul if when it does...

[Aezeal]

1 minute ago, Spinsane said:

Seriously, all I'm saying is you're free to do as you want, but you shouldn't be surprised if some day you see a TO say your army needs to be painted inthe skyport's colors or you use the generic KO code rules.

It will happen. Not necessarily to you, or to me, but it will. Just don't cry foul if when it does...

Now I don't play this army (or any serious tournaments)... but if someone started about that (or the color of my Sylvaneth wargroves) ... be he TO or not.. I'd hit him over the head with the table I'd planned playing on.

[Spinsane]

 

1 minute ago, Aezeal said:

Now I don't play this army (or any serious tournaments)... but if someone started about that (or the color of my Sylvaneth wargroves) ... be he TO or not.. I'd hit him over the head with the table I'd planned playing on.

If you don't like a TO's rules and yet pay to go to the tournament, complaining not only makes you sound stupid, it kinda shows you are too...

Just don't go if you don't like the restrictions in place, for the same reason some people don't go to "no unpainted models" events...

[Amradiel]

Decisions decisions... Don't know if I should go for 60 Arkanauts or 30 and then some Endrinriggers 

List #1

Admiral

Aether Khemist x 2

Arkanaut company x 20

Arkanaut company x 20

Arkanaut company x 20

Grundstock thunderers x 10

Ironclad x 1

Frigate x 1

List #2

Admiral 

Aether Khemist x 2

Arkanaut company x 10

Arkanaut company x 10

Arkanaut company x 10

Grundstock thunderers x 10

Endrinriggers x 9

Ironclad x 1

Frigate x 1

[Joakim]

That is a fair call. Don't go to a gaming event if you don't like the premise. But if you're part of your local gaming area then you have a voice too to influence where things are going.

 

im okay if some TO enforce certain paint scheme for certain rules. It's their choice.

but then why should we even paint the models at all then? Red doesn't go faster or should orcs be green? : ) it's a sad mix of hobbyist, gamers and sad rule-pickery. I'm also okay that we won't agree.

 

 

[Joakim]

And a different note regarding painting, since the books only has one battle line unit - for which any player would need 3x10 models in matched play.

How does one go about painting them in a cohesive style without accidentally mixing the units on the board of they get too close? Base rims?

id rather not have to paint a blue, yellow and red unit to keep them apart.

[Spinsane]

7 minutes ago, Joakim said:

And a different note regarding painting, since the books only has one battle line unit - for which any player would need 3x10 models in matched play.

How does one go about painting them in a cohesive style without accidentally mixing the units on the board of they get too close? Base rims?

id rather not have to paint a blue, yellow and red unit to keep them apart.

You could color/icon-code the right shoulder's disk so each unit has a distinctive ID...

[Amradiel]

7 minutes ago, Joakim said:

And a different note regarding painting, since the books only has one battle line unit - for which any player would need 3x10 models in matched play.

How does one go about painting them in a cohesive style without accidentally mixing the units on the board of they get too close? Base rims?

id rather not have to paint a blue, yellow and red unit to keep them apart.

Runes on right shoulder pad? 

[Joakim]

Sounds like marking the shoulder pad disc is a brilliant idea : )

[Dez]

That's what I'm doing, every 10 will have a different marking per their Frigate.

[Naflem]

1 hour ago, Joakim said:

And a different note regarding painting, since the books only has one battle line unit - for which any player would need 3x10 models in matched play.

How does one go about painting them in a cohesive style without accidentally mixing the units on the board of they get too close? Base rims?

id rather not have to paint a blue, yellow and red unit to keep them apart.

Well, I'm afraid we are disposed to reading into the book to stretch to what we want to be true..  but I did notice when it sort of verbally describes the distinctive elements about each skyport it generally focuses on the armor or the jumpsuits but not both, so I'd think you could have a mohndor with the blue armor but like black, creame, and grey overalls to break up the scheme..  or the pink jumpsuit folks with different metals on the armor bits.  ...modeling one unit with the axes and one with swords is a way to get differentials between two units of companies as well..

 

[Thomas Lyons]

3 hours ago, Spinsane said:

Seriously, all I'm saying is you're free to do as you want, but you shouldn't be surprised if some day you see a TO say your army needs to be painted inthe skyport's colors or you use the generic KO code rules.

It will happen. Not necessarily to you, or to me, but it will. Just don't cry foul if when it does...

Just as TOs are free to determine their rules, its fully in my right to cry foul, especially for such a bad reading of the text itself and a failure to follow GW's own lead on these issues.  I'll readily lambast such hobby-crushing decisions for anyone aiming to cripple players because of creative hobbying decisions, and I'll be all the more louder if they disproportionately single out KO players and don't require every Wargrove, SCE Chamber, and Tzeentch megabattalion (which also have set color schemes) to do the same.

Such attitudes are cancerous to the hobby and the community.   

[Spinsane]

Just out of curriosity, where do you draw the line, and most importantly WHY?

"No, these are not Barak-Nar Overlords, they're Barak-Zilfin. I simply do not like the Zilfin color scheme so painted them differently."

vs

"No, they're not Stormcast Eternals, they're Kharadron Overlords, I just don't like the KO models and prefer the SEs...

or

"No, I won't buy a second set of KO models just so I can play a different Skyport"

vs

"No, I won't buy a second Order army just so I can play a different battletome"

 

And this is a legitimate question. At which point is it okay to ignore the visual identity of an army, and where exactly do we switch over into 'not-okay' territory? Why?

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Spinsane said:

Just out of curriosity, where do you draw the line, and most importantly WHY?

"No, these are not Barak-Nar Overlords, they're Barak-Zilfin. I simply do not like the Zilfin color scheme so painted them differently."

vs

"No, they're not Stormcast Eternals, they're Kharadron Overlords, I just don't like the KO models and prefer the SEs...

or

"No, I won't buy a second set of KO models just so I can play a different Skyport"

vs

"No, I won't buy a second Order army just so I can play a different battletome"

 

And this is a legitimate question. At which point is it okay to ignore the visual identity of an army, and where exactly do we switch over into 'not-okay' territory? Why?

This is a slippery slope argument, and a bad one at that. What's next? Can't use the rules for the sky port you want because a paint job isn't up to snuff? Preposterous.

No TO in their right mind would institute this rule tournament wide, and applying it only to Kharadron Overlords is woefully prejudiced. Very few people paint their armies in a particular scheme just to be able to use whatever Port, Wargrove, Chamber rules are present in the battletome (think also of the stormcast players who want the classic gold armor, but don't want to paint their warriors purple.) Ultimately if you require a particular color scheme in order to use a set of rules it will prevent players from playing the lists they want; that's a tournament that won't be able to find players. 

I can see making this a rule for a narrative focused tournament (where such things do in fact matter) But in matched play? Put down the crackpipe. You've had enough. 

 

[Spinsane]

1 hour ago, Mirage8112 said:

This is a slippery slope argument, and a bad one at that. What's next? Can't use the rules for the sky port you want because a paint job isn't up to snuff? Preposterous.

Preposterous? Most "no unpainted armoes" tournaments have some basic guidelines as to what needs to be done for an army to be considered painting, so your argument is invalid. You didn't use the required "3+ colors per model" ? You're out...

 

Still, you dodged my question. Where do you draw the line?

If I don't like the KO models (or their price) but want to play the army, can I use Disposessed modes instead? Or Fireslayers? Can I maybe use Mantic Ironfathers?

Do you have a hard and fast limit (no non-KO models, sorry, proxies are out)? Or would you be open to biased judgement? (Man, guy A, that pirate goblins army is ace! Sure, you can play those Rum and Bones models as KO, who cares? But sorry, guy B, you can't field Genestealer Cult modes and pretend they're dwarves just because they carry mining equipment!)

What is acceptable, and what isn't?

[Lecfast]

I have decided on the market port, and have a 500-1k point starting league comming up this month. My thought (for 1k) is to take the 20 arkanaut company I have (of course, like there is any other choice), a Khemist, and fill it out with two frigates with drill thingys (for the formation).  That should give me a good chance to nail the enemy with six shots from the frigates main guns off the go, and then lead them into the arkanauts to clean up.

At 500 points I guess ill have the two squads of companies, an admiral, and either a squad of skywardens or riggers. I doubt it will matter much on which one as they will primarily shoot at range, and I wont have boats for them to fix.

I have little idea of what ill be facing, but I expect some the new khorne stuff, and ironjaws.

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, Spinsane said:

Preposterous? Most "no unpainted armoes" tournaments have some basic guidelines as to what needs to be done for an army to be considered painting, so your argument is invalid. You didn't use the required "3+ colors per model" ? You're out...

 

Still, you dodged my question. Where do you draw the line?

If I don't like the KO models (or their price) but want to play the army, can I use Disposessed modes instead? Or Fireslayers? Can I maybe use Mantic Ironfathers?

Do you have a hard and fast limit (no non-KO models, sorry, proxies are out)? Or would you be open to biased judgement? (Man, guy A, that pirate goblins army is ace! Sure, you can play those Rum and Bones models as KO, who cares? But sorry, guy B, you can't field Genestealer Cult modes and pretend they're dwarves just because they carry mining equipment!)

What is acceptable, and what isn't?

Gw has never before stated which colors heme you HAVE to use to get specific rules, other armies don't have it either. I'd draw the line there.

12 hours ago, Spinsane said:

 

If you don't like a TO's rules and yet pay to go to the tournament, complaining not only makes you sound stupid, it kinda shows you are too...

Just don't go if you don't like the restrictions in place, for the same reason some people don't go to "no unpainted models" events...

If it was specifically stated beforehand.. sure. . Otherwise it's not a ruling that while I'm already there at my own expenses I'd accept.

[Thebiggesthat]

Really loving the painting chat guys. Any conversation that goes round in circles without anyone being right is really interesting for everyone else!

 

In other news, has anyine got round to using the stormcast dual battalion? It'll be my gateway into the overlords so interested if it's any good 

[Naflem]

10 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

No TO in their right mind would institute this rule tournament wide, and applying it only to Kharadron Overlords is woefully prejudiced. Very few people paint their armies in a particular scheme just to be able to use whatever Port, Wargrove, Chamber rules are present in the battletome (think also of the stormcast players who want the classic gold armor, but don't want to paint their warriors purple.) Ultimately if you require a particular color scheme in order to use a set of rules it will prevent players from playing the lists they want; that's a tournament that won't be able to find players.  

 

Well I think the difference is that there's n o where in the rules published for any of those other factions, like stormcast, sylvaneth, etc. that could (and in my opinion does, but benefit of the doubt and all) directly indicate that you do need to paint the models in a certain way to play as a certain force and get the extra special rules for that force.   As has been noted earlier in the thread that does exist in multiple parts of the rules for the Overlords.  (i guess that sort of exists in 40k with space marine chapters although i think there GW gave more of an "out" in explicitly saying that you could build a sucessor chapter.  I suppose I have not played 40k for like 15 years, and never did tournaments back then, so i don't know if it is considered okay to show up with a bunch of space wolves and say "Hey these are Blood Angels mate."). also KO are different from other AOS armies mentioned above because this is the only force that has these specific port/chamber/grove/force membership keyed to their full-on allegiance abilities/artifacts/command traits/etc. rather than just a little battalion bonus or something like that. 

 

It's not the solely the TO that would be "doing this" by enforcing a restriction, its GW who wrote the rules the way they did.  I'll agree that GW weren't in their right mind with it..  But I'd say they weren't in their right minds with, for example, the Mourngul, either...  but that does not mean I can roll up into a tournament and tell my opponent "Oh, you've got a Mourngul?  I'm just going to ignore that -2 to hit and I'll say rend works, they were out of their minds when they made the rules for that model."