Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Tidings]

6 hours ago, Yeled said:

I think they got rid of scenarios where abilities triggered multiple times based on meeting the same criteria, i.e., being in range of a certain unit type conferring a +1 bonus doesn't happen twice if you are in range of two of that unit type. The condition is met only once no matter how many times you meet the criteria.

Ahhhh this is what I was thinking off! Anyways, glad the Frostheart is better than I thought!

[Yeled]

3 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Ahhhh this is what I was thinking off! Anyways, glad the Frostheart is better than I thought!

I asked where the rule was. Here's the wording in the FAQ:

Q: When the word ‘any’ is used in the criteria for an ability, does it mean that the ability is applied only once when the criteria for the ability are fulfilled? For example, if an ability said ‘Add 1 to hit rolls for models that are within 6" of any models with this ability’, would I add 1 to the hit rolls of a model that was within 6" of three models with the ability, or would I add 3?
A: The ability is applied only once, no matter how many times the criteria are fulfilled – ‘any’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘one or more’ in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules. In the example, this means that 1 would be added to the hit rolls, not 3.

The key here is to refer to adjusted warscrolls looking for the word 'any' or similar. Warscrolls like the Bloodsecrator were deliberately adjusted so that these effects occurred only once. In the case of the Frostheart, it says "If a spell is successfully cast..." It doesn't say 'any' or 'one or more.'

[Tidings]

Awesome, thanks for the clarification Yeled! This just makes the Frostheart even better than I thought, will definitely continue to play it.

Regarding the base size for it, does anyone know what it should be? My eagle (Frostheart) is on a 60mm but I suspect it should be on something larger.

[HadrielCaine]

2 hours ago, Tidings said:

Awesome, thanks for the clarification Yeled! This just makes the Frostheart even better than I thought, will definitely continue to play it.

Regarding the base size for it, does anyone know what it should be? My eagle (Frostheart) is on a 60mm but I suspect it should be on something larger.

Yeah, pretty sure its the same as the Dragon/ Mortarchs 120x92mm Oval base. So much bigger than the eagle. But since its an AoE effect that's pretty helpful. That's what mine's on.

[Aezeal]

So I was busy with a report on my battle from last thursday.. but it was lost by accidently clicking somewhere so now a short version:

Anyway I played some old high elves, 2x 30 spearmen, 20 phoenix guard, a phoenix, some hero, 5 dragon lances and 5 reavers  with the list I posted (prince, 5x waywatcher, 2x 30 GG, 2x10 EG and gryphound).

WE played starstrike and in his first turn his whole army moved to the mid line to claim the first objective when I fell in turn 2. Since he had tons of melee there was no point in going there. I teleported behind his lines and shot the hero with most waywatchers, then I split shots from the units of GG between spearmen and pheonix guard (with rend) which was stupid since there ended up being no battleshock. He then could charge my defending 10 EG around the teleporters and killed them (with phoenix and dragonlances). I teleported away and killed 18 spearmen (last 12 ran in battle shock) of the other unit and most of the remaining pheonix guard. He the got a charge on the gryphhound and killed it. The first objective as on the left where accidentaly most of his troops where. I MIGHT have had a chance of winning if the other objectives fell on the other side of the table (where I killed those spearmen.. but they also fell on the left.. all 3 objective on one side... the one where he had invested most. Next turn I killed 5 dragonlances (one unit on -3 rend) and the phoenix after teleporting to said left side but by then he had already scored 2 and 3x3 = 11 points. turn 4 I killed the 5 reavers (who had claimed 4 points) had to move and run with my units of GG to claim 1 objective (was short on the run to reach the 2nd one) so I only had 4 points while he had also claimed the objective (on my side) with the partly wounded spearmen (totally 19 points). Then I gave up because while I could have deleted the spearmen (potentially) he'd still claim that objectiv with the remaining phoenix guard (who had arrived tehre by then) and I could only score 15 anyway (and even if I killed his units I don't think I could have moved close enough to that last objective in my zone) so never going to beat him anyway on points

I only lost my gryph hound, 4 GG (reaver shooting first turn) and the gryphhound.... he lost everything except 23 spearmen and 5 phoenix guard BIG advantage in kill points... but I lost BIG on objectives.

5 waywatchers being major assassins: on turn 4 when the didn't move (GG moving to objectives) I rolled 30 hit dice ... and after explodes and rerolls I was allowed to roll 37 wound rolls

[Yeled]

Thanks for the report, @Aezeal. Another example of winning on kills but losing on objectives. I'm trying to decide if I think that's totally awful. I mean, it's not great, but at least we're killy.

Question: When you are getting extra attacks from exploding dice, are you using the rule of 1 that only allows a single extra attack to be generated per original attack? How about others?

[Origin]

We always use the rules of one, it's matched play or nothing. Play against too many chaos and death armies to allow unfettered summoning. 

[Yeled]

Do people typically prefer to use Waywatcher fast shots over precise shots, our is it more scenario based?

[Tidings]

I never use precise shots. They are designed be about the same in terms of damage output, but because fast shots is lower damage but more dice being rolled, it seems to average out more reliably. Mathematically it's actually slightly higher damage output as well. 

But the main reason to use fast shots is the +1 to hit from standing still empowers fast shots, but not precise shots. This just makes it better all around. 

[Yeled]

15 minutes ago, Tidings said:

I never use precise shots. They are designed be about the same in terms of damage output, but because fast shots is lower damage but more dice being rolled, it seems to average out more reliably. Mathematically it's actually slightly higher damage output as well. 

But the main reason to use fast shots is the +1 to hit from standing still empowers fast shots, but not precise shots. This just makes it better all around. 

Ah, that makes sense. I forgot about the +1 to hit affecting it but not the precise shots. (Fluff-wise those rules taken together don't make a lot of sense. Standing still and taking time to shoot should improve your odds on being precise, whereas shooting off as many shots as possible shouldn't get easier...but whatever.)

[Cerve]

2 hours ago, Yeled said:

Do people typically prefer to use Waywatcher fast shots over precise shots, our is it more scenario based?

Depends how good my opponent's save is.

[Frozenbeast]

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to the Aelf wolrd and for some weeks I have been reading silently some of the post in here and other forums too. I noticed, for obvious reasons, that the trend now, after having tried solo-Wanderers armies and fail kinda miserably (at least from my point of view ), is to try and match them with other factions under Order Allegiance. I do not own other faction models and to be honest coming from a Chaos background back in WHFB Wanderers are really the only ones I am interested between Order allegiance's lines (always been attracted  by my direct enemy.....yes I am a Beastmen in disguise). having to manage a Wanderers army then, I also noticed even in a heavy shooting meta the option for our Wanderers general is almost always a Nomad Prince for the obvious reason of his command ability. As per my experience (very few matches compered to some of you guys in here), and we are taking about 1000 p.ts games because for now I cannot afford more, Nomad prince is really just the command ability he provides and even with that I don t have the firepower (not being able to fit a battalion in 1000 p.ts) to take advantage of that ability. Back to the heavy shooting meta wouldn't be more effective to have something safer like a Waywatcher to protect us from highest range enemy units rather then offering a better shooting phase and then a heavy charge that will lift our unit from the table anyway?

something like:

Waywatcher - Masterful Hunter

Waywathcer/Wayfinder/Nomad prince - Viridescent Shawl /<-/Splinterbritch Blade

Spellweaver

EGx30

EGx10

WWRx10

SotTx5

 

You'd have a kind of a gunline anyway with one or two HMG or one hero able to dash MW when high AS (eg dracoths) (or even forget-me-knot on the spellweaver in exchange of another artifact to avoid a Mawcrasha or a zombie dragon smashing the line at round 1)). I did not put the Hidden paths because it is a defensive line anyway seen the amount of EG and the shooting power being on heroes only so a lot easier to move in better positions only with the normal Allegiance ability.

 

[Yeled]

2 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to the Aelf wolrd and for some weeks I have been reading silently some of the post in here and other forums too. I noticed, for obvious reasons, that the trend now, after having tried solo-Wanderers armies and fail kinda miserably (at least from my point of view ), is to try and match them with other factions under Order Allegiance. I do not own other faction models and to be honest coming from a Chaos background back in WHFB Wanderers are really the only ones I am interested between Order allegiance's lines (always been attracted  by my direct enemy.....yes I am a Beastmen in disguise). having to manage a Wanderers army then, I also noticed even in a heavy shooting meta the option for our Wanderers general is almost always a Nomad Prince for the obvious reason of his command ability. As per my experience (very few matches compered to some of you guys in here), and we are taking about 1000 p.ts games because for now I cannot afford more, Nomad prince is really just the command ability he provides and even with that I don t have the firepower (not being able to fit a battalion in 1000 p.ts) to take advantage of that ability. Back to the heavy shooting meta wouldn't be more effective to have something safer like a Waywatcher to protect us from highest range enemy units rather then offering a better shooting phase and then a heavy charge that will lift our unit from the table anyway?

something like:

Waywatcher - Masterful Hunter

Waywathcer/Wayfinder/Nomad prince - Viridescent Shawl /<-/Splinterbritch Blade

Spellweaver

EGx30

EGx10

WWRx10

SotTx5

 

You'd have a kind of a gunline anyway with one or two HMG or one hero able to dash MW when high AS (eg dracoths) (or even forget-me-knot on the spellweaver in exchange of another artifact to avoid a Mawcrasha or a zombie dragon smashing the line at round 1)). I did not put the Hidden paths because it is a defensive line anyway seen the amount of EG and the shooting power being on heroes only so a lot easier to move in better positions only with the normal Allegiance ability.

 

Well, the Nomad Prince is also a pretty great fighter with a 2" range. But that said, you are right that he's really the command ability.  I've considered using the Waywatcher for the defensive reason you've mentioned: being able to avoid ranged MW is helpful.  But in the end it's maybe not helpful enough. If it was -1 to hit in the combat phase as well it would be amazing, though (see the conversation about the Frostheart Phoenix above...MW wipe us out really fast, so making 6's really hard to role is very useful).

Like you I'm running a fairly straight Wanderers allegiance army, though I will take allies as appropriate. My worry for your army is you lack firepower. The EG are only effective as a defensive unit and the Waywatchers, while great, aren't enough to save you when you get hit with a heavy charge from Chaos or Destruction. I think I'd want at least a large GG or SotW unit to output some damage. 

[Frozenbeast]

That's the thing (I mean I know i am not possibly playing the right army for 1000 p.ts) either I build around firepower and die  as my opponent gains the double turn or i play anyway defensively and put my firepower on small units (single model units) keeping the enemy busy with an engage that will require time for. I don't think at this time (maybe ever unfortunately) we can make thoughts (even at higher p.ts) on how to be on the attack side. In my opinion we will never be. 

Going with your thought (which btw thanks for the answer) is it worth it to sacrifice the Shield from the SotT and put in some SotW? I mean will the EG manage to resist an charge without that? And at that point thinking of maybe dropping the +1 to hit on the general for the hidden paths? (of course need trying, but just for argument sake)

[Tidings]

I would say Wildwood Rangers don't really have a place in your average 1000 point list, as you won't see that many monsters at those points, and even if you do they are pretty overcosted.

Personally, I would drop Sisters of the Thorn. I rarely use them at 2000 points even; they are also too expensive for their effectiveness on the table. The spell is good, sure, but not 220 points good, and that's really about all they do. I suppose they can grab objectives, by Gryph Hounds or Wild Riders do that for less points.

At 1000 points Nomad Prince should still be your general. There's virtually no reason to consider any other options for your general at any point level. His command ability works great for all units in your army, and he is a pretty awesome melee fighter, which we need. at 80 points he's a steal. 

40 EG at 1000 points is overkill imo. I would drop half of them in favor of more GG - the Arcane Bodkins are pretty important for removing major threats before they have a chance to do anything to your army. Just stacking EG and SotW doesn't work - other armies grind us down faster than we grind them down in that fight most of the time. But we are well suited to an alpha strike. 

[Shea]

Hi all what about Hawk Riders, great eagles and lord on great eagle? they are worth today? 

[Yeled]

34 minutes ago, Shea said:

Hi all what about Hawk Riders, great eagles and lord on great eagle? they are worth today? 

The only way to use them with the updated warscrolls is in a mixed Order army. They lost their Wanderer keyword in the latest update. If you use the old warscrolls, then yeah, you can still use them as Wanderers.

In terms of how good they are, I've not used them a lot so I don't have a ton of experience, but I've always worried that at least the hawk riders and great eagles are too frail and don't pack enough punch. But they are fast so probably good at grabbing objectives. It would be interesting to use them with the Wanderers' new ability to teleport.

[WABBIT]

Hawk riders benefit very well from the spell weavers spell as it's d3 models not wounds ?

You'll have to use the old warscrolls so some events may not allow them if they decide compendium armies aren't welcome. 

[Mcprowlington]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

Hawk riders benefit very well from the spell weavers spell as it's d3 models not wounds ?

You'll have to use the old warscrolls so some events may not allow them if they decide compendium armies aren't welcome. 

Hawk riders aren't a wanderers unit so it can't be cast on them

[Origin]

@Frozenbeast Never really played Wanderers at 1000 point level before. If i was to field it I'd be building something like this...

Nomad Prince - Stalker & Forget-me-knot
3 Waywatchers
20 EG
10 EG
20 GG
5 WR

Gives you a good lot of shooting from the Waywatchers and a nuke from the GG. Larger unit of EG can bubble wrap, smaller unit of EG and the WR can cap objectives.

The Waywatchers shoot be able to shoot anything off the board at 1k.

[Frozenbeast]

17 minutes ago, Origin said:

@Frozenbeast Never really played Wanderers at 1000 point level before. If i was to field it I'd be building something like this...

Nomad Prince - Stalker & Forget-me-knot
3 Waywatchers
20 EG
10 EG
20 GG
5 WR

Gives you a good lot of shooting from the Waywatchers and a nuke from the GG. Larger unit of EG can bubble wrap, smaller unit of EG and the WR can cap objectives.

The Waywatchers shoot be able to shoot anything off the board at 1k.

To be honest I was waiting for somebody to write this (3 Waywatchers no Spell). I had the feeling that a lot of units in our roster are there only for one trait or one ability (eg SotT for the spell and really nothing more, spellweaver for auto-dispell.....) so I was trying to fill inas many units I found fully usefull (and btw I was not expecting WR but it make sense to have something quick to capture objectives). I'll see if I can give everything a go and let you guys know. and then enlarge my force as it seems having a one drop is veeeeeeeery helpfull for us. thanks for the suggestions.

[Frozenbeast]

55 minutes ago, Mcprowlington said:

Hawk riders aren't a wanderers unit so it can't be cast on them

if you use the old warscroll you can actually use them as Wanderers I suppose so then they will have the bonus from the spell.

[WABBIT]

7 hours ago, Mcprowlington said:

Hawk riders aren't a wanderers unit so it can't be cast on them

As stated many times on here and in the same post as my suggestion to use spell weaver on them they are wanderers on the old 2015 compendium warscrolls. You can use the old warscrolls if you wish and the GHB 2017 FAQ supports this. You just have to let your opponent know your using an older scroll before you play. Events may seek to exclude older compendium armies so if you play at events I'd pur pressure on organisers not to exclude players with older armies. It's just plain wrong to do so and only gives newer armies an advantage over already weak compendium armies.

[Aezeal]

14 hours ago, Yeled said:

Thanks for the report, @Aezeal. Another example of winning on kills but losing on objectives. I'm trying to decide if I think that's totally awful. I mean, it's not great, but at least we're killy.

Question: When you are getting extra attacks from exploding dice, are you using the rule of 1 that only allows a single extra attack to be generated per original attack? How about others?

No I roll 30 dice rerolling  1's if I roll a 6 on the reroll I make it an extra attack (which gets rerolls since its a new attack) and I roll some 6s with the original 30 which means  new attacks which do get rerolls but no extra attacks on new 6s.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

As stated many times on here and in the same post as my suggestion to use spell weaver on them they are wanderers on the old 2015 compendium warscrolls. You can use the old warscrolls if you wish and the GHB 2017 FAQ supports this. You just have to let your opponent know your using an older scroll before you play. Events may seek to exclude older compendium armies so if you play at events I'd pur pressure on organisers not to exclude players with older armies. It's just plain wrong to do so and only gives newer armies an advantage over already weak compendium armies.

There are no 20 17 points values on the old warscrolls so use in matched play seems hard. And I only do matched play.