Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[darkspear]

6 hours ago, Yeled said:

Ok, maybe I'll put something up. I'll have to think of how we should do it. Maybe post the idea and ask for suggestions for the list in the posts below. I don't want it to be a giant list of random ideas...I think if I could summarize ideas thrown out by the community into themes with explanations of how people might want to see them implemented, we'd make more of an impact. But I'm not sure if I should be discerning (thereby acting as editor), ask for people to vote by reacting and discussing and post the idea once it's reached a certain threshold or consensus, or just list everything.

Whatever I put up, the goal will be to discuss ways in which we'd like to see the Wanderers evolve via rules modifications, new models, or other. I don't want it to be a general Wanderers discussion. That's what this thread is for.

I see Wanderers as a forest guerrilla army but excludes monsters (that belongs to Sylvaneth).  Therefore in my opinion wanderers should focus on conventional units such as infantry and cavalry.  I feel that the loss of wardancers and glade riders is a massive let down given that the two units fill up a niche in the army (anti-infantry infantry and cavalry archer respectively).  Thus my wishlist will be for Gw to reinstate the glade riders and to recreate a WarDancer equivalent in plastic.

[tom_gore]

Was looking up the rules. Is there any way to get a Sylvaneth Wyldwood on the table when playing a mixed Order allegiance army?

The way I looked at it, you need to get the deepwood lore spell Verdant Growth to create the wood in-game, and that is only available for Sylvaneth or Wanderers allegiance.

Am I right or missing something?

[GammaMage]

How do Wanderers get Deepwood Lore spells?

[WABBIT]

3 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

Was looking up the rules. Is there any way to get a Sylvaneth Wyldwood on the table when playing a mixed Order allegiance army?

The way I looked at it, you need to get the deepwood lore spell Verdant Growth to create the wood in-game, and that is only available for Sylvaneth or Wanderers allegiance.

Am I right or missing something?

Tree lord ancients ability is not a spell so use that ???

[WABBIT]

58 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

How do Wanderers get Deepwood Lore spells?

@GammaMageThey don't. Deep wood spell lore is a sylvaneth allegiance ability. 

[tom_gore]

18 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Tree lord ancients ability is not a spell so use that ???

Which ability are you talking about? I don't see any ability on his warscroll that allows placing a Sylvaneth Wyldwood on the table...

[WABBIT]

@tom_gore Erm it's clearly on the TLA war scroll its called silent communion. I don't have it in front of me right now but He summons a wyld wood within 15" of himself on a 4+ every turn.

[tom_gore]

4 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

@tom_goreErm it's clearly on the TLA war scroll its called silent communion. I don't have it in front of me right now but He summons a wyld wood within 15" of himself on a 4+ every turn.

Nice. I just checked and the Sylvaneth Battletome Warscroll indeed has this ability, but the free download that is linked on GW:s miniature page does not:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-treelordancient-en.pdf

I wonder which version comes with the mini box itself...

[WABBIT]

2 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

Nice. I just checked and the Sylvaneth Battletome Warscroll indeed has this ability, but the free download that is linked on GW:s miniature page does not:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-treelordancient-en.pdf

I wonder which version comes with the mini box itself...

ah ok he must have gained it when the battletome came out. He was around for a while before the battle tome so the PDF reflects his old stats.

TLA work very well with Dryads allies. They can summon woods which boost dryads and if they fight together the TLA can knock units off their feet for a -1 to hit so Dryads will be -2 to hit, 3+ save if more than 12 in cover (2+ with mystic Shield). Who need eternal guard. I've held up and beat up skaven Abominations with 20 dryads before now.

[Yeled]

3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

@Yeled nice work on the wanderers I like your colour scheme. The leaf fall bases look very effective too. 

Thanks. The bases are super easy.

[Tidings]

4 hours ago, Thegiantpeanut said:

I think this is still debatable and depends on what you want to do with them.  With no buffs,each model firing their base warscroll, GG put out 2.75 dam for 120pts, Sisters 4.8 for 220pts.  That 44 pt per damage for GG and 46 for sisters, not too bad.  Being able to shoot twice doubles this to 9.6 dam for 10 sisters (23 pts per dam).  A unit of 20 GG with their +1 to hit only manage 7 dam, granted they can still move (34 pts per dam).  So I guess that it depends on what you want to do, stood still I would back sisters, moving I would maybe take glade guard.  

All this aside, my main attraction to the sisters was really the fact that I love the models and dont want a million models to paint 

Well, for starters it's easier to compare them at their closer point values. 20x GG is only 20 points more than 10x Sisters (they used to be the same). I'll put brackets around a separate number that is calculated with the Nomad Prince's reroll 1s, since I always use that lol.

Standing still, Sisters average an output of 10 [11] wounds, while GG average 7 [8]. That's a respectable edge to Sisters considering they cost 20 points less now! But when you move, their output drops to 5 [6] wounds per turn. Still not bad compared to the GG, but it's half of what you are paying for. There's also the factor of each Sister being equal to two GG, so each wound you take influences your damage a lot more. Though for GG the first wound influences your damage a lot as well, so they sorta balance out. So far, Sisters aren't looking so bad, right?

The biggest edge GG have is their Bodkins. -3 rend once per game is roughly worth 20x more GG shooting that turn. That means by paying 240 points, you get a bonus 240 points that turn. If you divide that by the length of your average game (for me it's 4 turns, we rarely play a 5th. Often it's only 3), you're essentially getting a bonus 60 points of value from the unit. This is a very rough estimation because it depends a lot on what you are shooting at, but you get the idea. The importance of the GG ability cannot be understated, and killing off a big threat before it has time to damage your fragile army is way more valuable to me than a bit more sustained damage through a game. 

Without the bodkins, there are many units that would live through my first attack and do too much damage to my force afterwords. If you plan to play a very static gunline though, Sisters definitely have a place! I don't think I would take more than a single unit though. 

 

 

[Tidings]

Also, I love seeing everyone's paintjobs! Super awesome stuff! I also converted Witch Elves as Wardancers a while back. Did greenstuff braids and leaves in the hair, plus weapon swaps for all of them. I also trimmed off all the spikey bits I could find. Unfortunately, I haven't painted them yet, and now I have less reason to do so. Luckily, my friends here all said they don't mind me using them as Rangers from now on though because they understand the situation Wanderer players are in. I have a bunch of archers I converted from Rangers+GG that I was using as Waywatchers, but now I'm not sure what to do with them.

[WABBIT]

Sisters become very effective if facing Chaos armies too. 2+ to wound is very tasty so for friendly match ups or a meta with a lot of chaos opponents they can help balance the odds and pay for themselves. They lack range and an extension to that range via movement (They lose half their offense) and a slightly better save and 4+ to hit in combat doesn't help them enough to be more resilient in combat. GG at 5/5/-/1 and 6 save will die just as fast as 4/4/-/1 and 5+ save. GG can project their attacks further by moving for no penalty and they have 20 wounds vs 10 making them way more durable! 

I'm going to use them because I painted them and they are awesome models.

[Thegiantpeanut]

1 hour ago, Tidings said:

The biggest edge GG have is their Bodkins.

Very true! I guess I underestimated this ... perhaps I now need a blob of the hooded hooligans

[Kugane]

20 hours ago, Tidings said:

@Kugane You might want to sell off a lot of that stuff man. I'm busy enough with three armies (Sylvaneth, Wanderers a Death) and I mostly just play Wanderers. Will probably sell off half of my Death collection to fund whatever Aelf stuff is released in the future. 

Working on it! Some of the painted stuff I'll hold on to, but most of it will just get resold.

[Tidings]

1 hour ago, Thegiantpeanut said:

Very true! I guess I underestimated this ... perhaps I now need a blob of the hooded hooligans

My Sisters are hooded too!

[The Wanderer]

42 minutes ago, Tidings said:

My Sisters are hooded too!

These look amazing mate! Where do the trays come from?

[WABBIT]

 

Just realised I haven't finished mine. Almost done now though.

[WABBIT]

We may die in droves but we look good on the way out

 

@Tidings  Nice Sisters mate. loving the hoods. I made mine for High elves in 8th so I may get some more for proper wanderer convertage.  Well as soon as I finish the other 30 odd projects i'm half way through or not started yet

[Tidings]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

These look amazing mate! Where do the trays come from?

Thanks man! The trays are simple laser-cut MDF trays from Tectonic Crafts. You can specify how many models you want the tray for, rounds/squares, ranked or blob, etc and he makes them to order. After that I just base them to match my bases, and glue some sheet magnet in there so my models stick in place!

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

We may die in droves but we look good on the way out

 

@Tidings  Nice Sisters mate. loving the hoods. I made mine for High elves in 8th so I may get some more for proper wanderer convertage.  Well as soon as I finish the other 30 odd projects i'm half way through or not started yet

Yeah we do! I've always loved the Wood Elf aesthetic, especially on the Glade Guard, the old metal Eternal Guard, the Spellsingers, etc. 

And thanks man! Yours look awesome too! I'm the same way, tons of half finished stuff.

[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, Tidings said:

Well, for starters it's easier to compare them at their closer point values. 20x GG is only 20 points more than 10x Sisters (they used to be the same). I'll put brackets around a separate number that is calculated with the Nomad Prince's reroll 1s, since I always use that lol.

Standing still, Sisters average an output of 10 [11] wounds, while GG average 7 [8]. That's a respectable edge to Sisters considering they cost 20 points less now! But when you move, their output drops to 5 [6] wounds per turn. Still not bad compared to the GG, but it's half of what you are paying for. There's also the factor of each Sister being equal to two GG, so each wound you take influences your damage a lot more. Though for GG the first wound influences your damage a lot as well, so they sorta balance out. So far, Sisters aren't looking so bad, right?

The biggest edge GG have is their Bodkins. -3 rend once per game is roughly worth 20x more GG shooting that turn. That means by paying 240 points, you get a bonus 240 points that turn. If you divide that by the length of your average game (for me it's 4 turns, we rarely play a 5th. Often it's only 3), you're essentially getting a bonus 60 points of value from the unit. This is a very rough estimation because it depends a lot on what you are shooting at, but you get the idea. The importance of the GG ability cannot be understated, and killing off a big threat before it has time to damage your fragile army is way more valuable to me than a bit more sustained damage through a game. 

Without the bodkins, there are many units that would live through my first attack and do too much damage to my force afterwords. If you plan to play a very static gunline though, Sisters definitely have a place! I don't think I would take more than a single unit though. 

 

 

I see sisters and EG as defenders for objectives and GG (+ EG) as teleporters to strike behind enemy lines. I don't think I'd often take more than 1 unit of sisters.. but I can see their value in that role (their bonus against chaos is also a small edge as is their shoot till the last ability, maybe not even that small the last one since it's ALSO another turn of shooting if they get charged (which equates to the bodkins then in your example and could even be used more in a game). If you take ranged treats out first the chance of using this is larger....

[Yeled]

Hey, all...I just created the Wanderers Community Wishlist thread, as I noted I would do earlier. I'll be going through some of the ideas posted here over the last couple pages and porting them over for discussion. Join the conversation if you are interested.

[Tidings]

24 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

I see sisters and EG as defenders for objectives and GG (+ EG) as teleporters to strike behind enemy lines. I don't think I'd often take more than 1 unit of sisters.. but I can see their value in that role (their bonus against chaos is also a small edge as is their shoot till the last ability, maybe not even that small the last one since it's ALSO another turn of shooting if they get charged (which equates to the bodkins then in your example and could even be used more in a game). If you take ranged treats out first the chance of using this is larger....

They definitely have a role, just depends how you want to play! I personally find them far too expensive to leave on an objective somewhere, and their reactionary ability has never worked when grouping them with EG, as they just get piled into instead of charged. At 220 points I wouldn't want them to get charged anyways, since protecting them and shooting twice next turn is worth more than shooting once and dying on my opponent's turn.  

I have my one unit, and I rarely use them tbh. Won't buy more, but I'm glade I have them, as sometimes they are great when played to their strengths.

[Yeled]

4 hours ago, Tidings said:

They definitely have a role, just depends how you want to play! I personally find them far too expensive to leave on an objective somewhere, and their reactionary ability has never worked when grouping them with EG, as they just get piled into instead of charged. At 220 points I wouldn't want them to get charged anyways, since protecting them and shooting twice next turn is worth more than shooting once and dying on my opponent's turn.  

I have my one unit, and I rarely use them tbh. Won't buy more, but I'm glade I have them, as sometimes they are great when played to their strengths.

This may have been said already, but it will be interesting to see if and how Melt Away will change this. If you can retreat and shoot, and force your opponent to charge again, and then shoot them again when they do, it's almost as good as shooting twice (minus the models who likely died during combat) and will minimize the amount of time they spend in combat itself.

[Tidings]

11 minutes ago, Yeled said:

This may have been said already, but it will be interesting to see if and how Melt Away will change this. If you can retreat and shoot, and force your opponent to charge again, and then shoot them again when they do, it's almost as good as shooting twice (minus the models who likely died during combat) and will minimize the amount of time they spend in combat itself.

Like you said, it's the same number of shooting attacks, except being in combat means you are losing models, and we only have a 5+ save on them. So I can't imagine a scenario where allowing yourself to be charged and then Melting Away is better than just being hunkered down behind EG and shooting twice, since you aren't at any risk of losing models there.