'Competitive' Disciples of Tzeentch

[blueguy203]

11 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I am actually looking at something like this for my next game:

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
-Rod of Sorcery
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 8x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (220)

Total: 2000/2000
 

I would change the line up on the spells and give Glimpse of the future to the Summoner and skip Shield of fate all together and your shaman will be casting his default spell most of the time and also i find mystic shield being more useful. Other than that your list looks similar to my own except i am going to forgo the LOC and bring in another 6 skyfires. Would love to hear how it goes for you.

[Nico]

Does anyone else think that the Arcane Suggestion spell may have been written incorrectly?

It's cast on a 7, which is pretty high. It doesn't work on Heroes or Monsters. It has a range of 18". Crucially, the debuffs it provides on a 3-4 or a 5-6 are only "until the end of this turn". Surely this should be "battleround" or "until your next hero phase". I'm not aware of any other debuff spells that only last for one turn as distinct from until your next hero phase. The Warchanter only works in your turn, as a buff. However, surely the idea of a debuff is to affect the enemy in their turn!

By comparison, Festus's spell is also cast on a 7, except that it is -1 to save rolls for the rest of the game. It does have a shorter range, but also works on Monsters and Heroes.

I'm looking for something to make DoT competitive without resorting to Skyfire spam.

 

 

[AverageBoss]

49 minutes ago, blueguy203 said:

I would change the line up on the spells and give Glimpse of the future to the Summoner and skip Shield of fate all together and your shaman will be casting his default spell most of the time and also i find mystic shield being more useful. Other than that your list looks similar to my own except i am going to forgo the LOC and bring in another 6 skyfires. Would love to hear how it goes for you.

Actually, had the shaman and summoners spells mixed up. Summoner has Glimpse, and Shaman has Fate (it is amazing on many units, especially if stacked with Mystic Shield).

Skyfires can reliably deal damage turn 1, but a LoC outdamages even units of 9 on turns 2+. So, I just take both.

[ogmaadn]

Silly question: does the regular 100pt Gaunt Summoner (on foot, no disc) uses a 40mm base, or should he be on 32mm?

[Hobby Heresy]

25 minutes ago, ogmaadn said:

Silly question: does the regular 100pt Gaunt Summoner (on foot, no disc) uses a 40mm base, or should he be on 32mm?

I think mine was supplied with a 40mm base its quite big at the bottom of the miniature with the flowy robe.

[Tokyo Nift]

20 hours ago, Nico said:

Does anyone else think that the Arcane Suggestion spell may have been written incorrectly?

It's cast on a 7, which is pretty high. It doesn't work on Heroes or Monsters. It has a range of 18". Crucially, the debuffs it provides on a 3-4 or a 5-6 are only "until the end of this turn". Surely this should be "battleround" or "until your next hero phase". I'm not aware of any other debuff spells that only last for one turn as distinct from until your next hero phase. The Warchanter only works in your turn, as a buff. However, surely the idea of a debuff is to affect the enemy in their turn!

By comparison, Festus's spell is also cast on a 7, except that it is -1 to save rolls for the rest of the game. It does have a shorter range, but also works on Monsters and Heroes.

I'm looking for something to make DoT competitive without resorting to Skyfire spam.

 

 

It doesn't seem to me to be written incorrectly, it just seems to be terrible. I feel like it probably used to exist in some better incarnation, and then they nerfed it before release rather than fit in a new spell. But it is sad how bad it is. 

[Vaz84]

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (100)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Lord Of Change (300)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)

 

My thoughts towards an upcoming 2k Tourney next weekend. Brimstones are chaf to absorb a charge. Idea is to move the army together at the enemy's strong point. Tgor banners pump out some wounds with 3-6 friendly wizards hanging out having fun. 

[Lou_Cypher]

Seems some of the leaks of the new Duardin are up.

What are our answers to what they could bring to the table? Because the number of shots they can put out appears to be quite worrying for our low save units.

[Coganaut]

What seems to be the best way to equip tzaangors mobs? Also am I wrong in thinking the best way to run them is in a large group of 30?

 

I am trying to narrow down on what I should buy as right now I have a lot of tzeentch stuff but none of it really works well together...

[ogmaadn]

I've got a question about which equipment musicians and icon bearers have since it is accepted they get the same equipment that the rest of models of the unit have...

But what happens when the unit has a combination of different equipment options? I'm thinking about both acolytes and tzaangors units where I'd combine two-handed weapons, one-handed weapon+shield and two weapons.

Am I able to choose which one of these combinations will the musician and icon bearer get for the game? I guess I'd have to do it before the game gets started, of course.

And speaking about the general of these units, can I also choose his equipment so that he gets benefit from his +1 to hit with that specific equipment (only in case of a Tzaangor unit)? Can I play this Tzaangor Twistbray with a double-handed weapon (Greatblade) to get the benefit of the +1 to hit even if the model shows a different equipment (the model is actually assembled with blade and shield)?

[AverageBoss]

4 hours ago, Coganaut said:

What seems to be the best way to equip tzaangors mobs? Also am I wrong in thinking the best way to run them is in a large group of 30?

 

I am trying to narrow down on what I should buy as right now I have a lot of tzeentch stuff but none of it really works well together...

 

I feel you should go for max great weapons and max mutants allowed in the unit. Everyone else should be sword/shield. Champion should be one of the guys with a great weapon.

Units of 30 give each individual model the most attacks, but results in far more models standing around doing noting. I feel 20 man units are the sweet spot.

4 hours ago, ogmaadn said:

I've got a question about which equipment musicians and icon bearers have since it is accepted they get the same equipment that the rest of models of the unit have...

But what happens when the unit has a combination of different equipment options? I'm thinking about both acolytes and tzaangors units where I'd combine two-handed weapons, one-handed weapon+shield and two weapons.

Am I able to choose which one of these combinations will the musician and icon bearer get for the game? I guess I'd have to do it before the game gets started, of course.

And speaking about the general of these units, can I also choose his equipment so that he gets benefit from his +1 to hit with that specific equipment (only in case of a Tzaangor unit)? Can I play this Tzaangor Twistbray with a double-handed weapon (Greatblade) to get the benefit of the +1 to hit even if the model shows a different equipment (the model is actually assembled with blade and shield)?

Unless otherwise stated, special items don't prevent models from having any normal equipment they could other wise have. Its really easy to model your special acolytes (champion, scroll guy, and bird guy) with two handed weapons (they are held one handed anyways). Likewise, you can have your special Tzaangors (champion, standard, and musician), have any of the 3 weapon options, though this will require some conversion work/kit bashing on the latter two. If you wanted, you could even make your special Tzaangors into the mutants you are allowed with the units (though this would again require additional modeling work on your part).

[Nico]

I believe there is an FAQ which states that Command Group have whatever weapons irrespective of what shown, but do check if concerned.

[AverageBoss]

8 hours ago, Nico said:

I believe there is an FAQ which states that Command Group have whatever weapons irrespective of what shown, but do check if concerned.

Yes, Page 6 of the FAQ:

Quote

 

Q: How do models like horn blowers and standard bearers

work? Do they lose the weapons they would otherwise carry, or

do you just gain the benefits of the upgrades without penalty?

A: You just gain the benefits unless specifically stated

otherwise. The model is assumed to still have any

weapons it had before it was upgraded, even if the

weapons are not shown on the model itself.

 

However WYSIWYG is WAY more heavily enforced than measuring base to base, or requiring circle bases, so keep that in mind.

 

[Goodwin]

I was thinking of doing the Muso/Bearers as my great weapon carriers, but I was a little worried if people would be like "REALLY?"  I think if I do a third Tzaangor unit I may do it anyway.  If you worry about WYSIWYG just cut the hands off of the great weapons and with a little GS or some sort of strap just stick it across their back.  Boom! 

For now I just use them as paired weapons since its not as "special" thang.

[Xelotath]

So I've been lurking on these threads for a few weeks now and today I decided to sign up and post a list. What do you guys think of This?

Im toying with dropping the Ogroid in favour of bulking the skyfires to a unit of 6.

 

[blueguy203]

1 hour ago, Xelotath said:

So I've been lurking on these threads for a few weeks now and today I decided to sign up and post a list. What do you guys think of This?

Im toying with dropping the Ogroid in favour of bulking the skyfires to a unit of 6.

 

Are you looking to build a friendly or competitive list? Depending on the goal, there could be a couple of recommendation otherwise. It's a good list. 

[Xelotath]

15 minutes ago, blueguy203 said:

Are you looking to build a friendly or competitive list? Depending on the goal, there could be a couple of recommendation otherwise. It's a good list. 

Currently I don't play in tournaments but I look to be competitive among my gaming group. We're all competitive with eachother while avoiding being that guy.

[Cookiez]

Any rumors about lowering the point cost of Acolites in GH2? They are far worse than Bloodreavers, yet costs twice as much, I've never understood that. 

[Kurrilino]

5 hours ago, Cookiez said:

Any rumors about lowering the point cost of Acolites in GH2? They are far worse than Bloodreavers, yet costs twice as much, I've never understood that. 

Are you sure you play the Acolytes right ???

I give an example.

Acccolytes belong into the Fate Sworn Band and are always coupled with the Tzeench Sorcerer Lord casting Demonic Power.

Because of the Fates Sworn Band you always equip double blades. It replaces the 6++.

So you get a unit that is the cheapest Battleline beside Marauders that shoots on 4+,4+, -1 Rend, reroll 1's

and hits in cc on 3+,4+,-1Rend, reroll 1's.

 

All that for 140 points per 10 is too expensive to you ?

 

 

[AverageBoss]

6 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

Are you sure you play the Acolytes right ???

I give an example.

Acccolytes belong into the Fate Sworn Band and are always coupled with the Tzeench Sorcerer Lord casting Demonic Power.

Because of the Fates Sworn Band you always equip double blades. It replaces the 6++.

So you get a unit that is the cheapest Battleline beside Marauders that shoots on 4+,4+, -1 Rend, reroll 1's

and hits in cc on 3+,4+,-1Rend, reroll 1's.

 

All that for 140 points per 10 is too expensive to you ?

 

 

Yes. they are stituationally good when you use them in a 120 point battalion that requires 8 other units and a hero. However you would probably get more bang for your buck with other units in that formation (warriors and knights for example).

Regardless of that though, out of the box they are a terrible value.

[Cookiez]

10 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

Are you sure you play the Acolytes right ???

Yeah, well, I use them as proxys for marauders, so yeah, I play them right.

What you suggest is to take more rather uncompetitive StD units to make overcosted unit a little bit less overcosted.

For me, acolytes should be max 80 points. They are not worth taking right now.

[Xelotath]

12 hours ago, Cookiez said:

Yeah, well, I use them as proxys for marauders, so yeah, I play them right.

What you suggest is to take more rather uncompetitive StD units to make overcosted unit a little bit less overcosted.

For me, acolytes should be max 80 points. They are not worth taking right now.

I agree, 140 is ridiculous for what they bring. They have potential in the Pyrofane cult though. Shooting in the hero phase and getting better the more shots are aimed at a unit. I would pay 90pts for them quite happily, when you look at them against pink horrors they are just a joke imo

[Southerngate]

I have played two 1500 point games with this list against stormcast and have been crushing them.  What say you?

www.warscrollbuilder.com

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)

- Lore of Fate : Infusion Arcanum

Magister (120)

- Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Fatemaster (140)

- General

- Command Trait : Nexus of Fate - Tzeentch Daemon Hero

- Artefact : Spiteful Shield

Gaunt Summoner (100)

- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Tzaangor Shaman (120)

- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Units

10 x Tzaangors (180)

- 2 x Pair of Savage Blades

- 4 x Savage Greatblade

- 2 x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

10 x Tzaangors (180)

- 2 x Pair of Savage Blades

- 4 x Savage Greatblade

- 2 x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

10 x Tzaangors (180)

- 2 x Pair of Savage Blades

- 4 x Savage Greatblade

- 2 x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Total: 1500/2000

Leaders: 5/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

[AverageBoss]

Pretty solid.

I would combine the Skyfires into a single 6 man unit and (since you lack Pinks), give your Shaman Fold Reality to help keep them around if their numbers dwindle.

I think the Fatemaster is (sadly) abysmal, and that you could replace him with so many other useful things. You could try a Chaos Sorcerer Lord and stick him with a Tzaangor block. Or you could take a unit of Pinks.

Speaking of Tzaangors, try to merge 2 of your 10 man units into a single 20 man unit and watch their total combat effectiveness double.

Magister I am torn on. A 2nd Shaman with Shield of Fate might actually be better. I need to test him more.

Just my two cents.

[Southerngate]

Appreciate it @AverageBoss.  I did the two units of skyfires because of the extra Aviarch, not a huge difference but every little bit helps. Fatemaster is garbage except for the save, if you buff him to have re-rolls he can zoom up and bog something down, which in turn gets shot at.  I could swap him out for a unit of pinks and combine two of the tzaangor units and still meet three battleline.   I am building a new one around Vortex Beast and Ogroid as meat shields, with the rest of the army shoot/spelling from behind.  As an old beastman player I love the tzaangors, but in that I think ill have to do pinks or cultists to fit them in.