Jharen Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I've used Skarr many times in the past and he can be a true pain in the butt for your opponent due to his abilities. His new cost is going to see him be a true viable option on the table I suspect. While he's truly good at horde combat, don't let that fool you, he can wreck enemy heroes well enough and killing him just gives you the ability to get him into better positions behind enemy lines. I have used him in the Bloodmarked warband as well and he's a great pick for (as well as Valkia). My group and I always allowed him to remain part of the battalion even after being killed and returned to the table and we honestly never saw any insane balance issues due to this. YMMV. While it may seem powerful that he can generate a 'new' hero with each death this way, keep in mind he's costing you reinforcement points with each return as well. Another thing worth pointing out while on the topic of Skarr is that his special attack SEEMS to replace his normal attack sequence. This suggests (and I have always played it this way) that it cannot be modified by abilities such as the Portal of Skulls or Slaughter Incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Skarr ist definitely our tech-choice to deal with hordes but his efficiency is questionable at best. First, he has to reach the target. Footslogging characters rarely have a high life-expectancy in AoS, especially if the opponent knows what he is doing. Then he has to go first in combat otherwise he would just go to sleep. The rezz is nice but for some reason I was thinking about old Celestine from 40k and not AoS/reinforcement points... Besides that, for 80 points he's a steal. I can see him being played, but he has not the capabilities to shut down hordes reliably. Concerning hordes overall, maybe Tzeentch or Order shenanigans will suppress hordes and we are not going to see a horde heavy meta. (the Gaunt sorcerer is just godlike) What makes Bloodletters superior to other hordes (and without equal in Khorne in my opinion) are their sheer offensive capabilities and our abilities to bring them on the other side of the table within one turn. They are not truly footslogging like skellies. (ok, bad example because of the possibility of a vampire lord on abyssal terror... but I guess the point stands for a lot of horde units that are considered right now) You give your opponent one turn to deal with your list, if he doesn't have the answers, tough titties. Blood Warriors might shine even more, they always hit at least once and are great in whittling down non-elite units. As @Jharen mentioned, bubblewrap might become more of a thing in AoS and I've got the feeling that this is one of the better plays against hordes. Only issue is, that the double turn makes it a little bit less reliable than it is in 40k. The next couple months will surely be interesting. (there is a good chance all the horde skeptics, myself included, are full of ****** but maybe... the end is nigh! :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Funnily enough I did pick up my Skarr to start work on - then got distracted with Skullcrushers as my army really struggles on mobility (and I likely won't be running Goretide under GHb17). 7 hours ago, Jharen said: Another thing worth pointing out while on the topic of Skarr is that his special attack SEEMS to replace his normal attack sequence. This suggests (and I have always played it this way) that it cannot be modified by abilities such as the Portal of Skulls or Slaughter Incarnate. Correct. Skarr's ability replaces all of his attacks - so in theory you may have stacked him up to 8 or 9 attacks, but can then replace it with his special one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Correct. Skarr's ability replaces all of his attacks - so in theory you may have stacked him up to 8 or 9 attacks, but can then replace it with his special one. Which, against certain hordes can be far more. 3" is a long way in all directions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Given the possible increase of horde armies maybe we'll see more of my favorite, yet over costed, heroes - Skaarac the Bloodborn. Sitting at 500 points still seems a bit high, but maybe we'll see a revision on his points if Forgeworld gets around to updating stuff. Or maybe he will just be worth the full 500 if we reliably see more swarms sitting across from us. His ability to run and charge across the table turn one, and then explode on death is GREAT against hordes as a nuke. I've pulled off some hilarious things with this guy vs clan rats swarms in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Well, Ben said that Chaos Dwarfs fans will not be disappointed this Saturday, so hopefully FW sort out Skaarac too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, Roark said: Well, Ben said that Chaos Dwarfs fans will not be disappointed this Saturday, so hopefully FW sort out Skaarac too... So guess they are doing a complete point update with book, pdf for TK etc. and FW all being done. Where was the comment on chaos dwarfs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Legion of Azgorh megathread in this very subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb Daark Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Roark said: Well, Ben said that Chaos Dwarfs fans will not be disappointed this Saturday, so hopefully FW sort out Skaarac too... awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireymonkeyboy Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 15 hours ago, Xasz said: What makes Bloodletters superior to other hordes (and without equal in Khorne in my opinion) are their sheer offensive capabilities and our abilities to bring them on the other side of the table within one turn. Sayl? Or am I missing something? How are you getting them across the table in a turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Render Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, Fireymonkeyboy said: Sayl? Or am I missing something? How are you getting them across the table in a turn? Sayl aside, Murderhost + WoK Bloodthirster + Bloodstoker can work, with the addition Talisman of Burning Blood on the Bloodstoker improving it even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13on2D6 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Render said: Sayl aside, Murderhost + WoK Bloodthirster + Bloodstoker can work, with the addition Talisman of Burning Blood on the Bloodstoker improving it even more. Does the new GHB stop 'double' stoking a single unit? That with WoK is lethal! an extra 6 inches run and extra 6 charge ( +1 inch for the WoK too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, 13on2D6 said: Does the new GHB stop 'double' stoking a single unit? That with WoK is lethal! an extra 6 inches run and extra 6 charge ( +1 inch for the WoK too!) Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Stokers warscroll say you add 3" to the run or charge rolls and therefore not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jaehaerys said: Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Stokers warscroll say you add 3" to the run or charge rolls and therefore not both. "... you can add 3" to all run or charge rolls for a unit ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Xasz said: "... you can add 3" to all run or charge rolls for a unit ..." Thank you sir. I got overruled on this previously. Not that at the time it made any difference. My letters still turn one charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb Daark Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 as a side order to Skarrac, Shartor the executioner as an ally with his mask ability would make a pretty neat double act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13on2D6 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Jaehaerys said: Thank you sir. I got overruled on this previously. Not that at the time it made any difference. My letters still turn one charged. Glad this is the case! You had me worried that I had misinterpreted the rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireymonkeyboy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Blood Pact requires the use of reserve points, yes? FMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, Fireymonkeyboy said: Blood Pact requires the use of reserve points, yes? FMB Yes, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misthv Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Xasz said: "... you can add 3" to all run or charge rolls for a unit ..." Umh, which implies you choose wether to add 3" to run or charge rolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Running or Charging are two separate actions, they do not ever happen as part of the same action even when running and charging in the same turn. The ability seems as a casual first read (and without focusing on or inflating the emphasis of words) to suggest that all actions that are runs or charges gain +3. Hope that made sense. Additionally if the word 'and' had been used it could cause the ability to read as if it only gave the +3 if you were running and charging in the same turn and we'd all be having that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misthv Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jharen said: Running or Charging are two separate actions, they do not ever happen as part of the same action even when running and charging in the same turn. The ability seems as a casual first read (and without focusing on or inflating the emphasis of words) to suggest that all actions that are runs or charges gain +3. Hope that made sense. Additionally if the word 'and' had been used it could cause the ability to read as if it only gave the +3 if you were running and charging in the same turn and we'd all be having that discussion. I hear you. Has it been FAQed? I never played it as AND though, but I'm going to from here on if it's legit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Sadly no, it has never been in an FAQ. I wish I could also say "I'm 100% right and this is what GW meant", but I can't of course, I can only use my best judgement and the judgement of those I game with. I encourage you to take up the issue with whoever you play with of course. My gaming buddies and myself don't mind applying it to both simply because we all just despise Sayl and his obviously silly ability. Still, we realized Khorne needs to get across the table quickly, and the bloodstoker is a great way of doing that fairly and within the fluff of the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Even without stoker you're still getting a turn 1 charge with murder host, sayl, and the WoK BT. You deploy wave 1 on the 12" line. With everything listed you're moving 5d6+20" counting the charge move. So a minimum move of 25, which will bring you into contact unless the enemy castled up on their board edge, with an average move of 37" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubs Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Anyone else think that we will see a lot more karanak this edition? With bloodbound heroes as allies and flesh hounds being the ideal Msu unit. A maxed out Bloodhunt is still worth the points at 130, plus you can use thirster command abilities through the blood tithe. im looking into lists like this Allegiance: KhorneHeroesKaranak (100)- GeneralWrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (360)- Artefact: Deathdealer Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (280)- Artefact: A'rgath the King of Blades Bloodstoker (80)Battleline5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Karanak General)30 x Bloodletters (300)BattalionsBlood Hunt (30)Total: 1950/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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