FEC Competitive Beasts and Ghouls list

[Ashtyn]

Hi Guys

First time poster but long time reader!

I've been thinking of getting into FEC for AoS. I used to play 8th edition VC with a focus on Strigoi/Ghouls/Horrors. After getting myself the battletome, and having a read the book I've fallen in love with the new fluff. I love the idea of fielding a deranged set of flesh eating psychos. 

After looking at some of the tough lists that can be fielded by the enemy factions (Thundertusk spam, impenetrable treelords, mass shooting armies, and deep-striking stormcasts), I thought about a tough, fast and regenerating FEC list that can pack in a decent amount of rend, mortal wounds and friendly models to hold down objectives. 

Characters 

- Abhorrent Ghoul King on ZD (General)               400

Command Trait - Ruler of the Night

Artifact - Ring of Immortality

-Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist                400

Artifact - Cursed Book

- Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist               400

Artifact - Ring of Immortality 

- Crypt Ghast Courtier                                               80

Battleline 

- 30 Ghouls                                                              300

- 10 Ghouls                                                              100

- 10 Ghouls                                                              100

Battalions 

Royal Menagerie                                                      60

Ghoul Patrol                                                            100           

Total   1940

The plan is to have the big beasties do most of the hurt and intimidation. Their free hero phase move allows me to disengage from tricky situations and get a solid first turn move into my opponents lines. While the extra regen is helpful since I'm sure they'll be getting focused. Between 2 screams and a pestilent breath I can give myself some form of a shooting phase. The high rend from TG and ZD will give me options to hurt high armor targets, not forgetting the possibility of mortal wounds on the TG's maws. 3 Abhorrent's will also give me options for defensive buffs (Mystic Shield and Unholy Vitality) while the Abhorrent on the ZD can provide a nice damage aura (re-rolling failed wounds).  

The ghoul patrol will also give me decent sustain on my foot troops. The 30 man group will engage enemy objectives (with 3 attacks each, re-rolling 1's to hit and re-rolling wounds if the ZD gets his spell off) while the small 10 man groups will try to hold my own objectives. I don't feel like they (or the courtier) will be the main focus of enemy fire considering I'll have 3 beasties roaming up the board, this means they should stay fresh and will keep regenerating any small losses they may receive.

Anyhow that's the plan (I'm sure it wont work out that way). If you guys have any advice I'd be happy to hear it!

[wayniac]

I'm pretty sure for the Menagerie it has to be unmounted beasts, you can't count the Ghoul Kings on beastie for it.

[Gaz Taylor]

List looks fine but I would go for Cloak of Mist and Shadows on all of the big beasties. Having played against a Royal Menagerie list, the cloaks make them so fast, it's scary!!!! (thanks to @Ben Johnson for showing me how fast!!!  )

10 hours ago, wayniac said:

I'm pretty sure for the Menagerie it has to be unmounted beasts, you can't count the Ghoul Kings on beastie for it.

It's been FAQed. Basically they have the key words so it's all fine  

[wayniac]

List looks fine but I would go for Cloak of Mist and Shadows on all of the big beasties. Having played against a Royal Menagerie list, the cloaks make them so fast, it's scary!!!! (thanks to @Ben Johnson for showing me how fast!!! [emoji6] )
It's been FAQed. Basically they have the key words so it's all fine [emoji6] 

Did not know that. Awesome [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Rusty]

Yep. All Battalions run off keywords not unit names. It's awesome

 

I found a similar list, not sure if you had seen it or if one list is better than say the other. Just thought you might be interested.

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (400)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night
- Artefact: Cloak of Mists and Shadows
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)
- Artefact: Ring of Immortality
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)
- Artefact: Ring of Immortality

Units
Crypt Ghouls x 10 (100)
Crypt Ghouls x 10 (100)
Crypt Ghouls x 10 (100)

Behemoths
Terrorgheist (320)
Terrorgheist (320)
Zombie Dragon (320)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (100)
Royal Menagerie (60)

Total: 1980/2000

 

[Ashtyn]

Hmm cloak of mists and shadows does provide a lot if speed. I'm just worrying about getting smashed on the counter attack and losing 1 or 2 of the beasts on the 1St turn ( even though that's what I want to do to enemy beasts).

Do you think the speed will give me more options to intimidate and ruin an opponents plan? 

[Gaz Taylor]

30 minutes ago, Ashtyn said:

Hmm cloak of mists and shadows does provide a lot if speed. I'm just worrying about getting smashed on the counter attack and losing 1 or 2 of the beasts on the 1St turn ( even though that's what I want to do to enemy beasts).

Do you think the speed will give me more options to intimidate and ruin an opponents plan? 

With basically two drops and high chance of going first, you will be able to get to anything on a standard board. With three monsters with Ghoul Kings on them, you will kill most things if you choose the right combats and wot not  

oh then you have a load of ghouls as well  

[Grimnaud]

Go for your the first list. It gives you more magic, and more importantly, more ghouls. While the second list is certainly powerful, playing any scenario but three places of power, it would be way to easy to wipe out the only three scoring units you have. Yes, they get the GP regen + the Ghast's, but you can't bring back a unit that's been wiped out. 10 wounds is too easy to get rid off. That big unit of ghouls gives you a bigger buffer.

 

[Ashtyn]

47 minutes ago, Grimnaud said:

Go for your the first list. It gives you more magic, and more importantly, more ghouls. While the second list is certainly powerful, playing any scenario but three places of power, it would be way to easy to wipe out the only three scoring units you have. Yes, they get the GP regen + the Ghast's, but you can't bring back a unit that's been wiped out. 10 wounds is too easy to get rid off. That big unit of ghouls gives you a bigger buffer.

 

I feel that I need a large block of ghouls purely to grind out an objective and give myself a host of models that can score. So I agree with your point about model size.

The other list I thought of removed one of the ghoul kings from the TG and instead included an abhorrent on foot to provide the extra attack buff.

My only issue with this though was the fact that he'd be all alone (on my side of the table) while the rest of my force attempted to encircle the enemy on the first turn. 

I still feel the list lacks protection from to hit modifiers, but I can't see anything, bar a vampire lord on ZD from stopping that, and I honestly don't feel comfortable including him in the Royal menagerie ( I think that's a little too gamey ). 

[knifeyspooney]

Where does this keywords count thing come from? The entry in the FAQ relating to named characters does not read to me like it applies in cases like Royal Managerie (and teleporting star drakes in Stormcast formations). 

The entry about the spyreheart formation is plain confusing. It does state you can't take two annointed to count for the requirements - but the explanation as to why doesn't make any sense to me (and I guess could be read as an argument in favour of GKs on TGs in Royal Managerie - but also not?). 

As as I have two TGs and a ZD, I'd love to rock the Royal Managerie with riders, so very open to finding out that this is absolutely within the rules

[Ashtyn]

To me the FAQ states that units must contain keywords. 

The paragraph that proves it to me is the one that mentions skarsnik. he has the 'night goblin big boss' keyword and is therefore allowed to be in the battalion.

So I see abhorrents on ZD or TG as being ok. 

[knifeyspooney]

The Skarsnik entry doesn't read like it applies - it directly relates to named characters. 

Not to mention that some of the battalion scrolls are particularly specific (lord Celestant on dracoth). 

Perhaps GW needs to clarify further, but I'm not confident that the FAQ entry clearly allows it. I can't imagine people would be thrilled with Stormcasts dropping stardrakes on the back of the board in sky borne slayers. Certainly that's not the way it is played from what I can tell. 

[Rusty]

Wasn't this discussed when it came to Stormcast? It called for a Lord Celestant, but you can fulfill that requirement in the battalion (Skyborne Slayers) with a Lord Celestant on Dracoth. FAQ'd by GW as okay as the battalion uses keywords... 

[knifeyspooney]

Faq'd where? I've heard it said that it should be played this way, but this seems to be based on the skarsnik entry that, to my eye doesn't say that at all. Has GW said something elsewhere?

How is this played at events? I've not seen anyone do this kind of thing before. I'd like it to be pretty clear cut before I try and plop down a Royal Managerie with ghoul kings aboard. 

[Ashtyn]

I don't see why it must only account for special characters.

The FAQ indicates that the keywords are more important then the name of the units (be they annointeds on Phoenixes or named characters)  when determining eligibility for battalions.

Since skarsnik can act as a night goblin big boss, and an anointed on Phoenix counts as both an anointed and a Phoenix in the aelf battalion, I don't see how an abhorrent on a TG or ZD doesn't fit in to Royal menagerie. Both the units contain the specific keyword which seems to be the pattern that the FAQ lends itself towards in multiple responses.

These FAQ responses should act as precedents for all armies. They can't possibly respond to every single question regarding battalions for each warscroll. So the two previously mentioned responses ( Skarsnik and anointed ) indicate to me that the keywords outweigh the units title when determining eligibility for battalion inclusion.

[Nico]

Quote

Since skarsnik can act as a night goblin big boss, and an anointed on Phoenix counts as both an anointed and a Phoenix in the aelf battalion, I don't see how an abhorrent on a TG or ZD doesn't fit in to Royal menagerie. Both the units contain the specific keyword which seems to be the pattern that the FAQ lends itself towards in multiple responses.

The FAQ is crystal clear on that point - if they have the keyword, they meet the condition. Also if a very prominent GW employee and top tournament player, @Ben Johnson is using them as his army (I understand he has the ridden versions - look at the beautiful photos) in this way - that's a pretty ringing endorsement of doing so.

[deynon]

I use a similar list. The mounted TG/DZ have the keyword that is requited so it's possibile to have that thing. Moreover is possible to even use the VLoDZ from the GA:Death eventually, but I don't like such idea.

Anyway at 2000 points I don't find quite useful to use both the Patrol and the Managerie battalions. You don't have enough "weight". The only ones who can do damages are the Managerie ones. Moreover is quite troublesome to have the ghouls when they enter. II prefer to point to other options.

The ring is quite useful on the general, but sincerly I'm preferring to use the cloak and the unholy sword to use very precise deployment. 

It's anyway to consider that che cloak lose a bit of it's utility cause the rules of the managerie itself, soit can be switched with something else.

[Ashtyn]

5 hours ago, deynon said:

I use a similar list. The mounted TG/DZ have the keyword that is requited so it's possibile to have that thing. Moreover is possible to even use the VLoDZ from the GA:Death eventually, but I don't like such idea.

Anyway at 2000 points I don't find quite useful to use both the Patrol and the Managerie battalions. You don't have enough "weight". The only ones who can do damages are the Managerie ones. Moreover is quite troublesome to have the ghouls when they enter. II prefer to point to other options.

The ring is quite useful on the general, but sincerly I'm preferring to use the cloak and the unholy sword to use very precise deployment. 

It's anyway to consider that che cloak lose a bit of it's utility cause the rules of the managerie itself, soit can be switched with something else.

Interesting views, what would you add if you wanted more weight? 

You still need battleline. which at its cheapest means 3 units of 10 zombies. 

That leaves you with around 650 points left for units, which means you could get a large block of horrors or a mourngul, but you're damn low on models that can score objectives if you do that.

What units do you plan to add to 3 ZD/TG in a royal menagerie list? 

[deynon]

4 minutes ago, Ashtyn said:

Interesting views, what would you add if you wanted more weight? 

You still need battleline. which at its cheapest means 3 units of 10 zombies. 

That leaves you with around 650 points left for units, which means you could get a large block of horrors or a mourngul, but you're damn low on models that can score objectives if you do that.

What units do you plan to add to 3 ZD/TG in a royal menagerie list? 

I add 20x2zombies, 30x1skeletons (spears) and evoke Crypt horrors thanks to the GKoTG command ability. I'm still considering about the 120 points I still have to use. usually I play a banshee as a retroguard Hero, but I'm not quite convinced about it. And I'm thinking about degrading a GKoZD that I have in 2x to a ZD and use the difference point to evoke something using the unholy sowrd or inserting the VLoAT, by I'm stille expertimenting about it.

 

I'm not a fan of the Mourngul...I know, I'm strange, but I don't find it quite incisive in my gameplaying.

I like to kix FEC adn GA:Death anyway, so I'm quite confortable about the variants in any case.

[Ashtyn]

18 hours ago, deynon said:

I add 20x2zombies, 30x1skeletons (spears) and evoke Crypt horrors thanks to the GKoTG command ability. I'm still considering about the 120 points I still have to use. usually I play a banshee as a retroguard Hero, but I'm not quite convinced about it. And I'm thinking about degrading a GKoZD that I have in 2x to a ZD and use the difference point to evoke something using the unholy sowrd or inserting the VLoAT, by I'm stille expertimenting about it.

 

I'm not a fan of the Mourngul...I know, I'm strange, but I don't find it quite incisive in my gameplaying.

I like to kix FEC adn GA:Death anyway, so I'm quite confortable about the variants in any case.

Interesting mix of units. I do believe that a little bit of synergy is lacking in regards to the battleline units. 

In my list my general would run the generic command ability (hopefully making the 30 ghouls immune to battleshock), which will make the unit a lot more anchory while still dishing out huge hits near an objective.

The reason I like mixing ghoul patrol with royal menagerie is due to deep striking deployment combing so well with 3 flyers that can cross the board and charge on the 1st turn (if taking cloak). my opponent is then encircled by ghouls and has been blunted by 3 giant monsters before they move. Obviously 1 drop armies will go before me (if they choose to), but I still have the opportunity to play insane mind games. 

The other bonus of royal menagerie is the 6 inch move in the hero phase. this can act as a retreat option, enaballing the beasties to retreat and then still get their normal move and charge in the movement and charge phases. meaning it's difficult to bog them down and kill them (excluding double turns)

[deynon]

3 minutes ago, Ashtyn said:

Interesting mix of units. I do believe that a little bit of synergy is lacking in regards to the battleline units. 

In my list my general would run the generic command ability (hopefully making the 30 ghouls immune to battleshock), which will make the unit a lot more anchory while still dishing out huge hits near an objective.

The reason I like mixing ghoul patrol with royal menagerie is due to deep striking deployment combing so well with 3 flyers that can cross the board and charge on the 1st turn (if taking cloak). my opponent is then encircled by ghouls and has been blunted by 3 giant monsters before they move. Obviously 1 drop armies will go before me (if they choose to), but I still have the opportunity to play insane mind games. 

The other bonus of royal menagerie is the 6 inch move in the hero phase. this can act as a retreat option, enaballing the beasties to retreat and then still get their normal move and charge in the movement and charge phases. meaning it's difficult to bog them down and kill them (excluding double turns)

About the movement is almost about my same reasoning about it. And moreover cause it I value anyway the cloak cause give an even more sprint to a model (eventually it can move 18" in the Hero phase and you can add the move phase them...it's even more terroristic movement if you have the VLoAT, without ranning you can literally move half the field in a single scratch...

Anyway I moreover don't like the ghoul patrol idea considering your vision: you're limited the the border of the field. Don't misunderstand, it's useful, I myself use the crypt horrors with such idea, but it's anyay a single unit. With such a list instead you risk not to be able to create a valid crumble to the opponent.  In this case i'd suggest the unholy sword, maybe double, to summon the units you need. You can do them in the same turn and considering the range of the cast, the fact that they are unspellable and that you can chooce how power it spring on...beh, I find more versatile than simply using the ghoul Patrol and you can quite press the opponent.

More I played the ghoul Patrol more I realised that it's a sort of bluff. It's useful, but it's more like suitable on low point or big point (1000 or 2500+) to use. Cause it has a great use as advanced keeper for the objective thanks to the rules or to go and stare with potential threatening the opponent small units. I continue not to see it like a real smashing unit. To make it really a heaache it requirres a lot of support, so much that I don't see it like a sinergy, more like a parassitism (in an undead army is not so bad as association^^).

Obviously these are all and only my opinions. 

[NiallJC1984]

I've used a very similar list but I have played the keyword game by using a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon in the Royal Menagerie

As per above posters, the keyword for the VL on ZD matches the Royal Menagerie requirement.  Good fun with a Ghoul King on both a TG and ZD backed up by VL on ZD! All with Cloaks of course haha.

Ghoul Patrol as troops. I agree with the previous poster though, it's suitable for some match ups but not all. It's a fun list, not optimal.

[Ashtyn]

7 hours ago, NiallJC1984 said:

I've used a very similar list but I have played the keyword game by using a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon in the Royal Menagerie

As per above posters, the keyword for the VL on ZD matches the Royal Menagerie requirement.  Good fun with a Ghoul King on both a TG and ZD backed up by VL on ZD! All with Cloaks of course haha.

Ghoul Patrol as troops. I agree with the previous poster though, it's suitable for some match ups but not all. It's a fun list, not optimal.

Thanks for the feedback!

Against what matchups do you think the list will struggle? 

Id like to build up a competitive list so am open to suggestions, or any tinkering that might be required.

[deynon]

3 hours ago, Ashtyn said:

Thanks for the feedback!

Against what matchups do you think the list will struggle? 

Id like to build up a competitive list so am open to suggestions, or any tinkering that might be required.

Not mind "a competitive list". First you have to know how to play what you deploy, secondly you have to adapt to the situations on the field. In AoS a "cmpetitive list" lose quite a lot of sprint if the opponent get two rounds close or if satisfy the mission requirements while you don't. So don't be so obsessed with "competitive list", but better see to a "synergic list" and learning to use it. It's much more valuable as results.

[Ashtyn]

Fair point. On paper I feel that it synergises quite well but I still need to play the list ( most of my models are still in Aus and won't make it to the UK till the new year). 

I'll have a better idea after some practice games! Although monster rush armies seem to be popping up all over the forums recently ( the HE dragon list is truly terrifying).