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Wild theories about the future of BoC


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Okay, i just would like to hear what people following the lore and narrative of aos (or not) thinks about what would be the future of Beast of Chaos

I go first, my crazy theory is this:

 From Seasons of  war thondia we know morghur is coming, and he is basically chaos spawn god. He is planning using the incarnates to let the realms go hiper wild mode (wharever that means, if ever happens)

what if those are not some random old chaos spawn, but the new or future of "beast of chaos"? They just go nuts into the chaos spawn aestetic. 

it would be crazy if it was in our faces all along.

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I think there could be three ways to do Beasts of Chaos for AoS:

 

1. Squat them as a whole faction, giving each god-themed book the respective marked-gors. This is already a thing for Tzaan- and Slaan- gors. Roll Ungors, Gors, Bestigors, et al into Slaves to Darkness, providing rules to field beasts as their 'own' army. Unlikely to happen, but given how the mono-god books are a mix of daemon and mortals, who knows.

2. Beasts remain as-is, getting the remaining marked gors, and newer beastmen units, leaning into the whole 'Children of Chaos' theme. Give them mutated gors that are sorta-spawn, sorta-beastmen i.e. Beasts of Chaos flavoured Forsaken. Give them options to not be as glassy a cannon that they are, i.e. Just ensure that they're able to do the cannon bit of glass cannon. All glass no cannon isn't fun. Add in primitive/shoddy siege weapons, crewed by ungors. Lean into the 'tear civilization down, even if they have to be hypocrites to do so' motif. Like, make them an ugly, chaos-flavoured mirror to Cities of Sigmar.

3. As above, but leaning into the more wild and more obscure beasts. Where are ungors crewing a chaos oxen/elephant/big monster? Where's the mobile mini-herdstone on chariot? Bestigors with other weapon options? Siege-spawn, like spawn with hastily cobbled together armour, designed to breach walls and/or die trying? Chaos Dragons, spawn either of Glaucoma Glaurach or a corrupted brother to Karazai? Re-add Chaos ogres, make them different to Ogroids (less elite, just ogors that ate too much chaos-infused stuff). Bring back and roll in Fimir? Retcon them as while abandoned by Chaos, they've found a home in the beasts as they're also the 'first children of chaos' or that they've thrown their lot in with the Beastmen to regain the Eye of the Gods.

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I see them going Option 3 actually.  They're too popular to Squat, and given that Morghurite Spawn are a thing in the new book I very much expect and HOPE that Morghur resurfaces to mutate everything and anyone!  I sold all my Beasts a while back, but will certainly be happy to get back on board if I can make an army with the Master of Skulls and tons of mutated weirdos clomping around.  I mean I could kinda do that now.  I almost think they'll get new models for some of the monsters too.  Thought for sure the Cockatrice and Jabberslythe were going away.

However I also forsee some Pestigors and Khorngors coming along someday as well.  

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16 hours ago, Augusto said:

Okay, i just would like to hear what people following the lore and narrative of aos (or not) thinks about what would be the future of Beast of Chaos

I go first, my crazy theory is this:

 From Seasons of  war thondia we know morghur is coming, and he is basically chaos spawn god. He is planning using the incarnates to let the realms go hiper wild mode (wharever that means, if ever happens)

what if those are not some random old chaos spawn, but the new or future of "beast of chaos"? They just go nuts into the chaos spawn aestetic. 

it would be crazy if it was in our faces all along.

AR3xbbSdAcBGTZiG.jpg

NGL, when Morghur came up in Season of War I was willing to bet it all that the 3.0 cover was a hint at his return! I still want that to be the case; have Yndrasta hit im head-on (and lose) 

With "beastmen are done" seeming more and more of a thing, I would be lying if I said I didn't want a Morghur faction to replace them. Morghur was always my favorite beastman character, and I remember actively disliking Malagor because he just sort of felt like a cop-out for not knowing what Morghur should be up to outside of "existing, I guess"

Age of Sigmar and the End Times have grabbed all the toys from the toybox and made them do things! (for the most part; gotta assume Galrauch is still out there!) 

Morghur was surprisingly absent from the death of his setting, and I really liked the explanation that he could be/is some sort of ur-Chaos god: the unfocused mutation-heavy chaotic destruction of the capital "S" Self into the Evangelion orange Tang. I also liked that I'm pretty sure there was a mention of the more "normal" beastmen not liking the Morghur faction because, instinctually, they were pretty concerned that they were right about things

So let him in! There are one billion ways AoS could reboot the beastmen into something a bit more focused as a "faction identity" than "these guys are in the woods and evil" especially as "in the woods and evil" is now the Kruleboyz' primary schtick. Give beastmen a focus! the Big Four each want their brand of "i get to rule/destroy/eat the world," the GHR wants things to be "desolate and ruined" not sterile like nagash just sort of wasted, Hashut probably wants to conquer everything (not just destroy), Morghur wants to destroy everyone's AT fields and melt everyone into a single insane consciousness that is him: there's more than one way to end a setting! Morghur can still stand next to the rest of the Chaos pantheon as something unique!

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I guess Morghur could be the very 'winds' of Chaos, whereas the other gods are aspects and crystallizations of Chaos.  And every unit could have random stats for all Chaos all the time!  It'd be like having an army of Hoarfrost rolls.  And bring back the Gigantic Spawn!

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17 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I guess Morghur could be the very 'winds' of Chaos, whereas the other gods are aspects and crystallizations of Chaos.  And every unit could have random stats for all Chaos all the time!  It'd be like having an army of Hoarfrost rolls.  And bring back the Gigantic Spawn!

I'd adore the idea that Chaos itself has an evil sort of intelligence to it and it sort of twists into the shape the viewer wants/expects/anticipates but all those are really a front/mask for "this thing that eats timelines"

It would be a fun inversion for the Beastmen too: from "ah these losers suck so hard that the chaos gods consistently stop letting them take marks after their debut books" to "the bestmen didn't really get why they hated the idea of worshipping a specific ruinous power, but now that Morghur has been revealed to be chaos suddenly it clicks"

Beastmen have always been referred to as "the true children of Chaos" but I don't feel like that has been adequately reflected terribly often in their rules or narrative. It'd also be an inversion of "you really want to be a Demon Prince; being a spawn is punishment or something bad" making spawndom the "truest" reflection of chaos instead: spawns being demigods or heroes instead of fodder like the human factions

It'd be a really cool way to flip beastmen into something important, terrifying, and threatening to everyone including other chaos factions! You like one specific god? You're afraid of becoming a chaos spawn with "too many" gifts? You're a poser!

What a fun idea!! 

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10 hours ago, Pizzaprez said:

I'd adore the idea that Chaos itself has an evil sort of intelligence to it and it sort of twists into the shape the viewer wants/expects/anticipates but all those are really a front/mask for "this thing that eats timelines"

It would be a fun inversion for the Beastmen too: from "ah these losers suck so hard that the chaos gods consistently stop letting them take marks after their debut books" to "the bestmen didn't really get why they hated the idea of worshipping a specific ruinous power, but now that Morghur has been revealed to be chaos suddenly it clicks"

Beastmen have always been referred to as "the true children of Chaos" but I don't feel like that has been adequately reflected terribly often in their rules or narrative. It'd also be an inversion of "you really want to be a Demon Prince; being a spawn is punishment or something bad" making spawndom the "truest" reflection of chaos instead: spawns being demigods or heroes instead of fodder like the human factions

It'd be a really cool way to flip beastmen into something important, terrifying, and threatening to everyone including other chaos factions! You like one specific god? You're afraid of becoming a chaos spawn with "too many" gifts? You're a poser!

What a fun idea!! 

Wouldnt that make BoC just like some sort of eldrazi from mtg or "void things"? I feel like BoC is a more original idea than that tbh.

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My current thinking is that BoC getting squatted, if there is even any truth to the rumour, will simply be a rebranding of them for AoS with a more trademarkable name (Gorherds of Chaos or similar). They'll then get a refresh of the Bestigors, Gors, Ungors and character models with more dynamic sculpts, and the old minis will be sold for TOW.

They aren't going to remove basic Beastmen from AoS, because the question then becomes "if there are no Gors, what are Slaangors and Tzaangors exactly?", and whilst it's possible they'll simply merge Goes into the other chaos books, at this stage in AoS's life that's going to ****** off a lot of people (there are people who have built BoC armies from scratch after AoS was released, purely for AoS, and telling them they no longer have an army is very different to telling someone with an old Fantasy army that they can't use it in AoS).

I do think it's fairly likely we'll see AoS BoC get more big monsters etc., probably with a few that don't overlap with TOW at all, as big monsters kinda fit AoS better than fantasy in the whole.

We'll see though. But I sincerely doubt GW will actually squat a while faction at this point. After all, the last time they squared a faction they're customers went on and on about it for thirty years until they brought them back 😄

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12 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Wouldnt that make BoC just like some sort of eldrazi from mtg or "void things"? I feel like BoC is a more original idea than that tbh.

Nah I wasn't imagining like that but I do see the parallels; maybe I don't know enough about the eldrazi?

I was more meaning like Morghur could be a name for the "force" that is Chaos Undivided

It's usually presented as "I like the Chaos Gods as a pantheon" but the Beastmen have never loved that idea, going so far as to not be able to take chaos marks in like half their books

I was meaning like, instead of "undivided" being the "whole" pantheon of gods, it's really the force that all the different gods are a face of(?)

Is that the eldrazi? I only had some of their cards back when I played; I don't think I read any of their stuff past that

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15 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

Nah I wasn't imagining like that but I do see the parallels; maybe I don't know enough about the eldrazi?

I was more meaning like Morghur could be a name for the "force" that is Chaos Undivided

It's usually presented as "I like the Chaos Gods as a pantheon" but the Beastmen have never loved that idea, going so far as to not be able to take chaos marks in like half their books

I was meaning like, instead of "undivided" being the "whole" pantheon of gods, it's really the force that all the different gods are a face of(?)

Is that the eldrazi? I only had some of their cards back when I played; I don't think I read any of their stuff past that

Nvm, seems like they are different after all after i did some more reading. Your discription just reminded me of those things. They are discribed as some kind of titans. 

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I've mentioned it before but with the return of Morghur I'd like to see tzaangors, pestigors removed from boc entirely, and a new direction emerge.

Realmgors, chaos and magic enfused beasts of chaos, gyhrangors, ulgugors (clearly need better names) etc. I remember the great stories and tidbits of the children of chaos being born in the old world, violent births and spawning into the world.  Id like to see what these 'births' would look like in all the realms. Really AoSify this faction!

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It's all so confusing. On the one hand, we have official lore teasing Morghur returning, and actual AoS Beasts minis (endless spells, etc). On the other hand, lots of rumours about BoC being squatted.

My take on this is : I think both arguments are right. Beasts will remain active in the setting but at the same time be squatted. 
"But how is this possible ?"

That's a good question. What I think will happen is, all the current BoC range will move to the Old World. Even probably, the very name of Beasts of Chaos will be abandoned. The very core of BoC as we know them will be gone.
And in their place, a new faction of Beastmen will rise. They probably won't be named Beasts of Chaos - more something like "Children of Morghur" or another easily trademarkable™ name. Why do I think this will happen ?

  1. AoS sculpts for Beasts. Endless spells, an official herdstone model, Underworlds band, the beastlord, and Tzaangors and Slaangors. Those won't be going off anytime soon since plastic kits are sich a massive investment. GW is not throwing away the new Beastlord after it launched last year.
  2. Actual lore for them. We have had some sick AoS illustrations of Beastmen (the one with Minotaurs vs SCE comes to my mind), and they actually show up in the lore. We know Morghur is still around, they appeared in the Season of War campaign book and in other factions BT as antagonists.
  3. The 40k Beastman Kill Team. They look nothing like old Gors, they feel way more mutated than the goatmen we know from WFB. They have 3 arms, giant hands, different head shapes from the bovine/caprine Beasts we all know. And since we know GW works with a database of digital assets to make minis with a consistant art direction, it means modern Beastman assets are in it now, ready to be exploited again.
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21 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

It's all so confusing. On the one hand, we have official lore teasing Morghur returning, and actual AoS Beasts minis (endless spells, etc). On the other hand, lots of rumours about BoC being squatted.

My take on this is : I think both arguments are right. Beasts will remain active in the setting but at the same time be squatted. 
"But how is this possible ?"

That's a good question. What I think will happen is, all the current BoC range will move to the Old World. Even probably, the very name of Beasts of Chaos will be abandoned. The very core of BoC as we know them will be gone.
And in their place, a new faction of Beastmen will rise. They probably won't be named Beasts of Chaos - more something like "Children of Morghur" or another easily trademarkable™ name. Why do I think this will happen ?

  1. AoS sculpts for Beasts. Endless spells, an official herdstone model, Underworlds band, the beastlord, and Tzaangors and Slaangors. Those won't be going off anytime soon since plastic kits are sich a massive investment. GW is not throwing away the new Beastlord after it launched last year.
  2. Actual lore for them. We have had some sick AoS illustrations of Beastmen (the one with Minotaurs vs SCE comes to my mind), and they actually show up in the lore. We know Morghur is still around, they appeared in the Season of War campaign book and in other factions BT as antagonists.
  3. The 40k Beastman Kill Team. They look nothing like old Gors, they feel way more mutated than the goatmen we know from WFB. They have 3 arms, giant hands, different head shapes from the bovine/caprine Beasts we all know. And since we know GW works with a database of digital assets to make minis with a consistant art direction, it means modern Beastman assets are in it now, ready to be exploited again.

This is what I'm hoping for too: the Beastlord looks great! He'd be right at home in Fantasy if they scoot the faction there, and I could see the Herdstone sticking around as a terrain piece. However, each edition of AoS has seen a host of kits that only exist for that one edition: the Azyrite Townscape in 1.0, the Stormvault and Warcry terrain standalone boxes, and in 3.0 we've got the construction site and aqualiths. If the past is precedent, all the construction site kits are going to phase out with 4.0 and we'll get new stuff again. That's quite a lot of sprues with only 4-5 year shelf lives tops: I've actually been considering trying to pick up some faction terrain to use in a couple projects in anticipation of them and maybe also endless spells being on the outs (there are a couple spells I'd want to grab too). I think terrain is not a great indicator, unfortunately

On 2/3/2024 at 5:02 PM, Augusto said:

Morghur wants to corrupt the incarnates. What if boc merges with incarnates?. We could get a whole army of half spawn of chaos/ half elemental monsters

On 2/3/2024 at 5:17 PM, CDM said:

I've mentioned it before but with the return of Morghur I'd like to see tzaangors, pestigors removed from boc entirely, and a new direction emerge.

Realmgors, chaos and magic enfused beasts of chaos, gyhrangors, ulgugors (clearly need better names) etc. I remember the great stories and tidbits of the children of chaos being born in the old world, violent births and spawning into the world.  Id like to see what these 'births' would look like in all the realms. Really AoSify this faction!

All this sounds great! Realmgors, monster mutant incarnates, all of this is really cool in the context of "morghur wants to corrupt the realms themselves" and monster aelementors and incarnates would be such a sick idea. Like, if morghur corrupts a mountain would the lumineth want to go put down the spirit that is now also corrupted? really cool ideas!

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On 2/3/2024 at 11:17 PM, CDM said:

Realmgors

I'd love to see this. Beastmen units that are inspired by the different realms. In fact, It's something I'd love to see across many of the factions. How is a Ghyran-Gor different from an Uglu-Gor? Using the realms themselves to inform the design of miniatures is a great idea. 

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A Biased one from me, but Since AoS came out I wanted A Morghur to Rival Alarielle, no longer constrained by the limited Magic of the Old Wolrd The Spirit of Morghur unleashed wholly on the Realms. I was really amped when I heard about Gavespawn, and then…Nothing 😩

 

I Hope they really go all in on Gavespawn. I was hoping that Morghur in the technical term doesn’t get a singular model, but Rather we get Lots of Models representing Morghur. Essentially I was redoing the special Characters (Gorthor and Malagor, never got round to Khazarak), Each was Morghur, or possessed by Morghur, or both all at once. And in addition there was Morghur in his Coalesced Form, Somewhere between An Avatar of Morghur and a Giant Spawn who has become Morghur through rituals of his Beastmen followers.  
 

That is What I’d like for Beastmen 😅

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IMG_3462.jpeg

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18 hours ago, Kronos said:

A Biased one from me, but Since AoS came out I wanted A Morghur to Rival Alarielle, no longer constrained by the limited Magic of the Old Wolrd The Spirit of Morghur unleashed wholly on the Realms. I was really amped when I heard about Gavespawn, and then…Nothing 😩

 

I Hope they really go all in on Gavespawn. I was hoping that Morghur in the technical term doesn’t get a singular model, but Rather we get Lots of Models representing Morghur. Essentially I was redoing the special Characters (Gorthor and Malagor, never got round to Khazarak), Each was Morghur, or possessed by Morghur, or both all at once. And in addition there was Morghur in his Coalesced Form, Somewhere between An Avatar of Morghur and a Giant Spawn who has become Morghur through rituals of his Beastmen followers.  
 

That is What I’d like for Beastmen 😅

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Those are incredible! I'd be super excited if we got anything half that cool. I'm with you that Morghur and the Gavespawn are the most exciting direction, for me, to take Beastmen in. I've always felt like Morghur and his narrative was one of the more/most unique parts of Beastmen in Warhammer compared to other settings

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19 hours ago, Hollow said:

I'd love to see this. Beastmen units that are inspired by the different realms. In fact, It's something I'd love to see across many of the factions. How is a Ghyran-Gor different from an Uglu-Gor? Using the realms themselves to inform the design of miniatures is a great idea. 

Going by what lore bits, hints and Realm themes we’ve gotten I’d imagine:

Ghyran Mantismen

Ghur Mammothmen

Ulgu Sharkmen 

Shyish lionmen(though I could see jackalmen for an Anubis nod)

Hysh might have more chimera-like ones that’s hard to identify(though could be more felines based on the Sphiranx who once served Teclis)

Aqshy antelopemen that are also on fire

 Chamon is already Tzaangor territory and Azyr cleansed.

 

But yeah, hoping they get some proper Realms magic affected evolutions and that Gnarlwoods story arch has it finally explode to cause a jumpstart to the evolutions across the realms riding on the Ghur winds already spread out everywhere.

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I do like gavespaw probably the most as a general beastmen theme. I think Khorne aligned beasts are interesting because unlike the rest of khornes guys being frothing berserker the beasts are MORE disciplined under Khorne. One of the last nods to the fact that the Chaos gods used to have some good qualities among the pure evilry that I find so boring.

 

All the God aligned frays open up interesting avenues for the generally one note beastmen (even if it is an awesome note)

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27 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I do like gavespaw probably the most as a general beastmen theme. I think Khorne aligned beasts are interesting because unlike the rest of khornes guys being frothing berserker the beasts are MORE disciplined under Khorne. One of the last nods to the fact that the Chaos gods used to have some good qualities among the pure evilry that I find so boring.

 

All the God aligned frays open up interesting avenues for the generally one note beastmen (even if it is an awesome note)

I'm with you in that the "weirdo" mono-god beastmen are my favorites. Similarly, I like that Slaanesh-aligned beasts not only instinctually horde wealth/gems/baubles and act in slanneshi deprieved excess but also hate themselves for it. The idea that beastmen appreciate art and craftsmenship but then also hate themselves for doing so is, similar to the more martial khorne beasts, a wrinkle that Chaos sometimes lacks these days. 

AoS has plenty of space to add a paragraph or two of "some knights become so obsessed with their skills/code of marital ethic that they fall to Khorne." Its an interesting wrinkle that allows for way more interpretations of Khorne's themes than "barbarian." A host of "normal" knights could also reasonably be khorne worshippers! GW will have to tear the Realm of Chaos books out of my cold dead brain: I think Chaos being something "innocent, but taken to an extreme" is now mostly Slaanesh's thing, but I like the idea that a wizard with an obsession could tumble into Tzeentch out of pure academic curiosity. I think the other three still have some shades of grey, but Khorne could be way more than one-note. I think the bit there Khul fails in ascending because he has to accept this 1v1 challenge is as close as I can recall AoS getting with it in a big way. The Neferata book also was interesting, but they were definitely barbarians 

1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

Going by what lore bits, hints and Realm themes we’ve gotten I’d imagine:

Ghyran Mantismen

Ghur Mammothmen

Ulgu Sharkmen 

Shyish lionmen(though I could see jackalmen for an Anubis nod)

Hysh might have more chimera-like ones that’s hard to identify(though could be more felines based on the Sphiranx who once served Teclis)

Aqshy antelopemen that are also on fire

 Chamon is already Tzaangor territory and Azyr cleansed.

 

But yeah, hoping they get some proper Realms magic affected evolutions and that Gnarlwoods story arch has it finally explode to cause a jumpstart to the evolutions across the realms riding on the Ghur winds already spread out everywhere.

I'd love to see a diverse kit that makes all sorts of weirdos: some head and torso/leg options that arent goats would do a lot of work to make them pop off!

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16 minutes ago, Luthor said:

I was reading this thread for quite some time, because i was eager to start BoC in AoS but now i am wondering why a vast majority of minis are temporarily out of stock on GW site.

A couple of semi-vague rumors on this site have pointed to Beastmen getting moved to The Old World; if they're getting fully shifted to the new-old setting, they'll be back in stock "soon" most likely with square bases in the box and new boxart! The rumor essentially said "beastmen are over in Age of Sigmar, they're going to be in The Old World instead"

The rumor didn't say whether that deletion was the end of chaotic animal-human hybrids in AoS as a playable army, but it also didn't say the beasts were 100% getting a reboot faction in the same vein as lumineth. Glancing at the "shopping" tab on google for "beasts of chaos," there does seem to be some stock still around for the goatmen! Google Shopping is a bit hit and miss, but if you're wanting goats they're out there! just not on the GW site.

If the future of the faction in AoS is critically important to your decision now, it may be best to pause for a bit to see where they're headed! If your main goal is to just build some sick goatmen, I would never discourage someone from pursuing an exciting creative endeavor!

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On 2/5/2024 at 11:50 PM, Hollow said:

I'd love to see this. Beastmen units that are inspired by the different realms. In fact, It's something I'd love to see across many of the factions. How is a Ghyran-Gor different from an Uglu-Gor? Using the realms themselves to inform the design of miniatures is a great idea. 

It could be cultural and simple. Ulgu-gors cloaked in robes and knives, chamon-gors armoured.

Could be more subtle, ulgu-gors being actual nightmares, not quite solid, thinking DE mandrakes. Chamon-gors being bezerker like, chamon being the red blooded realm.

Could be in your face, ulgu-gors actual shadows in bestial form , chamon-gors could be made of  metal ,  brass bulls (monkeys? 😁

Each realm could be different animal forms. I really like the goat aesthetic though.

23 hours ago, Kronos said:

A Biased one from me, but Since AoS came out I wanted A Morghur to Rival Alarielle, no longer constrained by the limited Magic of the Old Wolrd The Spirit of Morghur unleashed wholly on the Realms. I was really amped when I heard about Gavespawn, and then…Nothing 😩

 

I Hope they really go all in on Gavespawn. I was hoping that Morghur in the technical term doesn’t get a singular model, but Rather we get Lots of Models representing Morghur. Essentially I was redoing the special Characters (Gorthor and Malagor, never got round to Khazarak), Each was Morghur, or possessed by Morghur, or both all at once. And in addition there was Morghur in his Coalesced Form, Somewhere between An Avatar of Morghur and a Giant Spawn who has become Morghur through rituals of his Beastmen followers.  
 

That is What I’d like for Beastmen 😅

IMG_3458.jpeg

IMG_3459.jpeg

IMG_3461.jpeg

IMG_3462.jpeg

Beautiful conversions btw.

 

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