Ejecutor Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 As it seems that the latest W+ Loremasters video spoilers some content from the Dawnbringers 4 book, and in order to prevent spoilers in other threads, I've created this topic to discuss the book. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunbag Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Thanks . @Nezzhil is there any info about KB and kragnos in D4 ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Thanks. Bring on the spoilers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarges Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 From Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/s/MlDslvb2Tz): Loremasters: Ushoran reveals (DAWNBRINGERS IV HUGE SPOILERS) So Warhammer+ has made a video about Ushoran's lore, and it pretty much spoils the entirety of the Ghyran side of the plot for Dawnbringers IV. I'll start by revealing some minor new details that don't really spoil much before going into the full spoilers onwards. *Ushoran's Mace and Chalice (which may or may not be his original Chalice) were given to him by the Hollowmourne, who presumably found them in their deluded quest for artifacts. *Ushoran's castle in New Summercourt is too advanced to have been created by Ghouls, and in fact was created by a race of Gargants who were kin to the Sky Titans of the Scabrous Sprawl. *Fang of Nulahmia is a term that applies to Neferata's most elite agents, so Sekhar isn't the only one. *Ouburoth the Time-Swallower was the God of an Underworld called "Kandoor" (don't know the proper spelling). Its worshippers would willingly allow it to eat their souls, believing that would ensure their reincarnation. Ouburoth was so powerful that even after being weakened by Sekhar undermining its cult, Nagash couldn't devour him entirely, resulting in him spitting out the snake you see on the model. Nagash orders Sekhar to use her hypnotic abilities to keep Ouburoth under control and prevent it from regaining its full power. *The ships exporting Kingsblood are captained by Neferata's vampires but crewed by ghouls at Ushoran's insistence. Okay, now onto the actual story. >!The Ghyran Crusade, after exiling a bunch of its members who formed a cult called the "Kin of the Stag" inspired by Belthanos, end up at an Ossiarch Bonereapers fortress. The fortress was weakened by Alarielle's Rite of Life, so between the Ironweld artillery, Dispossed clans and the life magic of Iscilla Thorian, the Dawners are able to break down the fortress and move into New Summercourt.!< >!Once there, the Crusade meets up with Astreia Solbright and her Stormcast, who are looking for Ushoran because they believe he knows a way to heal their souls. A lot of the people in the Crusade want to go to the biggest castle on the biggest mountain because they think the "Sombre Paladin" can help them, though they do not know where they heard that name. As such, an elite force of veteran Dawners (including Thorian) alongside Astreia go to investigate the castle.!< >!The castle's gate opens, revealing Sekhar surrounded by a horde of ghouls, who welcome them as guests of the Summerking. The horrified Dawners are brought into the castle and seated at a feast where they meet Ushoran. Such is the aura of delusion coming from Ushoran that all the mortals see him as a magnificent king, and it even takes all of Astreia's willpower to see him in his true form. Ushoran is a polite and courteous host, even though the Dawnbringers are essentially his prisoners now, and is eager to hear them tell stories of the world beyond. When Solbright tells him of her quest to find him and seek a cure for the Flaw, he seems genuinely moved by her efforts.!< >!Sekhar uses her hypnotism to make one of the Dawners shoot Ushoran, a plan she cooked up with Grand Justice Gormayne, who is her co-conspirator in his lucid moments. Ushoran retreats and the ghouls enter a frenzy; however, instead of attacking the Dawners, they're attacking the vampires, with even Gormayne falling into madness and joining them. Ushoran had even orchestrated the seating arrangements for the feast so the vampires would be surrounded and trapped by the ghouls, and Sekhar and a handful of her vampires are barely able to cut their way out.!< >!Astreia pursues Ushoran, and when she finds him he's acting lucid. He thanks her for being an audience to his lunacy and helping him remove the Nulahmians, who are no longer useful to him. He doesn't see a point in indulging her curiosity any further, and savagely kills her.!< >!The ghoul crews of the ships that export Kingsblood, upon hearing of Neferata's treachery, mutiny, tying their captains to the wheel and forcing them to sail. The Kingsblood distribution network is now fully under the control of the ghoul cults.!< >!It ends with Neferata appearing to Ushoran as a similacrum made of blood and telling him that if he is going to repeat his game of rebellion against Nagash, he will meet the same fate he previously did. Ushoran isn't afraid though; he's prepared a long time for this moment, and now is the time he asserts himself among the hierarchy of Death. No real mention in the video of how the Ghyran Crusaders get out alive, if they do.!< 2 11 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarakUrbaz Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 40 minutes ago, Grunbag said: Thanks . @Nezzhil is there any info about KB and kragnos in D4 ? The Loremasters video only covers the portion of the book where the Ghyran Crusade meets Ushoran. Which to be fair, is probably the majority of the book (the book itself is named after it), but don't expect any real answers about anything other than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 28 minutes ago, Sarges said: after exiling a bunch of its members who formed a cult called the "Kin of the Stag" inspired by Belthanos I like the sound of the Kin of the Stag. Did it indicate if these are humans, dwarves or elves? Or a mixture? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarges Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, EntMan said: I like the sound of the Kin of the Stag. Did it indicate if these are humans, dwarves or elves? Or a mixture? It's not specified in the episode, sadly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zamerion Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Nothing about rules and special armies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, zamerion said: Nothing about rules and special armies? The info came from a lore video. So sadly it is too son for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jator Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 hours ago, Sarges said: From Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/s/MlDslvb2Tz): Loremasters: Ushoran reveals (DAWNBRINGERS IV HUGE SPOILERS) So Warhammer+ has made a video about Ushoran's lore, and it pretty much spoils the entirety of the Ghyran side of the plot for Dawnbringers IV. I'll start by revealing some minor new details that don't really spoil much before going into the full spoilers onwards. *Ushoran's Mace and Chalice (which may or may not be his original Chalice) were given to him by the Hollowmourne, who presumably found them in their deluded quest for artifacts. *Ushoran's castle in New Summercourt is too advanced to have been created by Ghouls, and in fact was created by a race of Gargants who were kin to the Sky Titans of the Scabrous Sprawl. *Fang of Nulahmia is a term that applies to Neferata's most elite agents, so Sekhar isn't the only one. *Ouburoth the Time-Swallower was the God of an Underworld called "Kandoor" (don't know the proper spelling). Its worshippers would willingly allow it to eat their souls, believing that would ensure their reincarnation. Ouburoth was so powerful that even after being weakened by Sekhar undermining its cult, Nagash couldn't devour him entirely, resulting in him spitting out the snake you see on the model. Nagash orders Sekhar to use her hypnotic abilities to keep Ouburoth under control and prevent it from regaining its full power. *The ships exporting Kingsblood are captained by Neferata's vampires but crewed by ghouls at Ushoran's insistence. Okay, now onto the actual story. >!The Ghyran Crusade, after exiling a bunch of its members who formed a cult called the "Kin of the Stag" inspired by Belthanos, end up at an Ossiarch Bonereapers fortress. The fortress was weakened by Alarielle's Rite of Life, so between the Ironweld artillery, Dispossed clans and the life magic of Iscilla Thorian, the Dawners are able to break down the fortress and move into New Summercourt.!< >!Once there, the Crusade meets up with Astreia Solbright and her Stormcast, who are looking for Ushoran because they believe he knows a way to heal their souls. A lot of the people in the Crusade want to go to the biggest castle on the biggest mountain because they think the "Sombre Paladin" can help them, though they do not know where they heard that name. As such, an elite force of veteran Dawners (including Thorian) alongside Astreia go to investigate the castle.!< >!The castle's gate opens, revealing Sekhar surrounded by a horde of ghouls, who welcome them as guests of the Summerking. The horrified Dawners are brought into the castle and seated at a feast where they meet Ushoran. Such is the aura of delusion coming from Ushoran that all the mortals see him as a magnificent king, and it even takes all of Astreia's willpower to see him in his true form. Ushoran is a polite and courteous host, even though the Dawnbringers are essentially his prisoners now, and is eager to hear them tell stories of the world beyond. When Solbright tells him of her quest to find him and seek a cure for the Flaw, he seems genuinely moved by her efforts.!< >!Sekhar uses her hypnotism to make one of the Dawners shoot Ushoran, a plan she cooked up with Grand Justice Gormayne, who is her co-conspirator in his lucid moments. Ushoran retreats and the ghouls enter a frenzy; however, instead of attacking the Dawners, they're attacking the vampires, with even Gormayne falling into madness and joining them. Ushoran had even orchestrated the seating arrangements for the feast so the vampires would be surrounded and trapped by the ghouls, and Sekhar and a handful of her vampires are barely able to cut their way out.!< >!Astreia pursues Ushoran, and when she finds him he's acting lucid. He thanks her for being an audience to his lunacy and helping him remove the Nulahmians, who are no longer useful to him. He doesn't see a point in indulging her curiosity any further, and savagely kills her.!< >!The ghoul crews of the ships that export Kingsblood, upon hearing of Neferata's treachery, mutiny, tying their captains to the wheel and forcing them to sail. The Kingsblood distribution network is now fully under the control of the ghoul cults.!< >!It ends with Neferata appearing to Ushoran as a similacrum made of blood and telling him that if he is going to repeat his game of rebellion against Nagash, he will meet the same fate he previously did. Ushoran isn't afraid though; he's prepared a long time for this moment, and now is the time he asserts himself among the hierarchy of Death. No real mention in the video of how the Ghyran Crusaders get out alive, if they do.!< This was a good read. Ushoran as a character might be almost as cool as his model. I'm curious to see how things evolve for the Death alliance from here 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 The Ushoran stuff is great, and really propels him into a position as an important and unpredictable player in the core narrative going forward. At the same time, I'm disappointed by the limited presence of the Ossiarchs and non-presence of the Nighthaunts - though maybe they play a bigger role in the Aqshy side of the story this time around. A bit more significantly, I'm frustrated to see Neferata once again playing the jobber. She's been stuck in that roll too much over the course of AoS, and it does undermine her ability to be taken seriously as the threat that she should be in the overall narrative. But that's more a complaint about a trend going back to 1e, more so than this specific instance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Wait... So Ushoran kills Astreia.???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarakUrbaz Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 8 minutes ago, Jetlife said: Wait... So Ushoran kills Astreia.???? She's Stormcast. Coming back from the dead is kinda their thing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said: She's Stormcast. Coming back from the dead is kinda their thing. Still. pretty badass. I'd love for Ushoran to become more prominent. I find Nagash stale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronVIke Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, Sception said: The Ushoran stuff is great, and really propels him into a position as an important and unpredictable player in the core narrative going forward. At the same time, I'm disappointed by the limited presence of the Ossiarchs and non-presence of the Nighthaunts - though maybe they play a bigger role in the Aqshy side of the story this time around. A bit more significantly, I'm frustrated to see Neferata once again playing the jobber. She's been stuck in that roll too much over the course of AoS, and it does undermine her ability to be taken seriously as the threat that she should be in the overall narrative. But that's more a complaint about a trend going back to 1e, more so than this specific instance. Hot Take, Neferata and the legion of blood will be the new death army in the 5th edition launch box. New model for her and new Vampire soldiers (i am still thinking that the realm of ulgu will be setting for 5th) a land with mysteries, political intrigue, and spycraft. Things Neferata excells at. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 hours ago, Jetlife said: Wait... So Ushoran kills Astreia.???? She will be back Spoiler wearing Thunderstrike armour 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 18 minutes ago, PJetski said: She will be back Hide contents wearing Thunderstrike armour Spoiler On the 5th Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, IronVIke said: Hot Take, Neferata and the legion of blood will be the new death army in the 5th edition launch box. New model for her and new Vampire soldiers (i am still thinking that the realm of ulgu will be setting for 5th) a land with mysteries, political intrigue, and spycraft. Things Neferata excells at. I *hope we're freaking done* with single realm editions. It was a total mistake that wasted the entirety of third edition, and things are only getting better now with the dawnbringer books in large part thanks to not being locked down to a single realm. Also a starter box set in the realm of shadow that doesn't feature daughters of khain or Malereon's shadow elves would be a pretty big waste. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronVIke Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Sception said: I *hope we're freaking done* with single realm editions. It was a total mistake that wasted the entirety of third edition, and things are only getting better now with the dawnbringer books in large part thanks to not being locked down to a single realm. Also a starter box set in the realm of shadow that doesn't feature daughters of khain or Malereon's shadow elves would be a pretty big waste. I would be in favor of more than one realm at a time. but i do feel the scope can get wayyy too out there if you just open it wide up. I think 2-3 realms at a time would be solid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 The new short covers a bit the spoilers mentioned in the loremasters episode: Dawnbringer Chronicles XVI – The Summercourt - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackOfBlades Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) On 1/11/2024 at 3:26 PM, Sception said: The Ushoran stuff is great, and really propels him into a position as an important and unpredictable player in the core narrative going forward. At the same time, I'm disappointed by the limited presence of the Ossiarchs and non-presence of the Nighthaunts - though maybe they play a bigger role in the Aqshy side of the story this time around. A bit more significantly, I'm frustrated to see Neferata once again playing the jobber. She's been stuck in that roll too much over the course of AoS, and it does undermine her ability to be taken seriously as the threat that she should be in the overall narrative. But that's more a complaint about a trend going back to 1e, more so than this specific instance. From what i read in Lord of Undeath, Neferata has little ability to be more than Nagash's tool simply because of the power her condition gives Nagash over her (and Mannfred). Something she is keenly aware and anxious of. To change that they would have to set up a culmination of how Nagash's power over the mortarchs is broken, which cant come from only the mortarchs themselves either as Nagash couldnt not see that coming. Edited January 13 by JackOfBlades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 33 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said: From what i read in Lord of Undeath, Neferata has little ability to be more than Nagash's tool simply because of the power her condition gives Nagash over her (and Mannfred). Something she is keenly aware and anxious of. To change that they would have to set up a culmination of how Nagash's power over the mortarchs is broken, which cant come from only the mortarchs themselves either as Nagash couldnt not see that coming. She can be a lot more than /just/ Nagash's tool. Being Mortarch prevents her from directly defying Nagash's word, but with Nagash temporarily out of the picture that's not a huge restriction on her own plots and schemes, and whether she's advancing Nagash's agenda or her own, she should still be a competent actor with more Ws than Ls. I recommend the Dominion of Bones novel for one of the rare cases where she's allowed to be properly competent, though admittedly it goes a bit far in the other direction. Again, my complaint is less how Ushoran gets one over on her in this one specific narrative and more how it fits into a pattern going back to first edition, where Arkhan and Mannfred were portrayed as dangerous and competent, always working successfully toward hidden agendas, where Neferata, supposedly the most subtle and manipulative of the mortarchs, was always working towards a blunt, obvious goal that rarely succeeded and almost never knew what was actually going on behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Sigmarite Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) On 1/11/2024 at 10:47 AM, Sarges said: >!The castle's gate opens, revealing Sekhar surrounded by a horde of ghouls, who welcome them as guests of the Summerking. The horrified Dawners are brought into the castle and seated at a feast where they meet Ushoran. Such is the aura of delusion coming from Ushoran that all the mortals see him as a magnificent king, and it even takes all of Astreia's willpower to see him in his true form. Ushoran is a polite and courteous host, even though the Dawnbringers are essentially his prisoners now, and is eager to hear them tell stories of the world beyond. When Solbright tells him of her quest to find him and seek a cure for the Flaw, he seems genuinely moved by her efforts.!< >!Sekhar uses her hypnotism to make one of the Dawners shoot Ushoran, a plan she cooked up with Grand Justice Gormayne, who is her co-conspirator in his lucid moments. Ushoran retreats and the ghouls enter a frenzy; however, instead of attacking the Dawners, they're attacking the vampires, with even Gormayne falling into madness and joining them. Ushoran had even orchestrated the seating arrangements for the feast so the vampires would be surrounded and trapped by the ghouls, and Sekhar and a handful of her vampires are barely able to cut their way out.!< >!Astreia pursues Ushoran, and when she finds him he's acting lucid. He thanks her for being an audience to his lunacy and helping him remove the Nulahmians, who are no longer useful to him. He doesn't see a point in indulging her curiosity any further, and savagely kills her.!< >!The ghoul crews of the ships that export Kingsblood, upon hearing of Neferata's treachery, mutiny, tying their captains to the wheel and forcing them to sail. The Kingsblood distribution network is now fully under the control of the ghoul cults.!< >!It ends with Neferata appearing to Ushoran as a similacrum made of blood and telling him that if he is going to repeat his game of rebellion against Nagash, he will meet the same fate he previously did. Ushoran isn't afraid though; he's prepared a long time for this moment, and now is the time he asserts himself among the hierarchy of Death. No real mention in the video of how the Ghyran Crusaders get out alive, if they do.!< I like how Ushoran isn't just this mad ghoul monster, and actually uses the arrogance of the Lahmians against them to get them off his lawn. On 1/11/2024 at 10:47 AM, Sarges said: >!The Ghyran Crusade, after exiling a bunch of its members who formed a cult called the "Kin of the Stag" inspired by Belthanos This is a big ****** Chekov's gun about Kurnothi. They aren't dropping that randomly into the story. They're setting the stag(e) for developing this in future lore and sell more miniatures about it... which knowing how anticipated Kurnothi are, we're probably gonna buy 😄. Edited January 14 by The Lost Sigmarite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: They're setting the stag(e) for developing this in future lore and sell more miniatures about it I hope so 😍🦌 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 All these leaks are about the Ghyran crusade. Now that we are close to the ending.... What do you expect for the Aqshy side? What do you expect from the Ushoran guests? Which one do we think is going to be the surviving one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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