Cado Ezechiar

[Sception]

  

3 hours ago, El Syf said:

Q3k1CwxzAiZNJAyt.pdf (warhammer-community.com)

Less points than a normal vampire lord and arguably better? Definitely has some flavour to him and relieved that he got an extra point of rend on his sword. Preorder confirmed for me.  

The Warscroll from the link (hopefully fine to post, it's part of a free download on WarCom

 

My thoughts:

-5 points and losing the command ability for +1 wound, +1 attack, +1 rend, +1 reach (why?  Greatswords don't normally get extra reach), more reliable damage, stronger Hunger but with worse timing (hunger works pretty much the same for everything else in the faction, why does it work differently on this one guy?), an ok but unremarkable signature spell, and the amazing Court of the Lost sounds like a steal.  In fact it sounds like such a steal that this guy is probably destined for  future nerfs.  I've seen the pattern of outside-of-battletome content that seems too good on its face getting subsequently nerfed into oblivion or banned outright to Legends repeated too many times.  Cado here is probably doomed to the same fate.

And yet, for however long as these rules persist, I'm still not convinced that he's an easy choice over the generic Vampire Lord.  That command ability is why you take vampire lords in the first place, All this guys other abilities are cool and good, but I'm not convinced they make up for that.  4.44 mortal wounds when the Spirit of the Fallen is up, without counting any other buffs, isn't nothing, but the regular vampire lord is swinging with 15 to 20 grave guard or zombie attacks, and doing so without having to expose themselves to the dangers of melee, and that's probably just better?  Especially since +1 wound alone doesn't exactly turn a fragile infantry hero into one who can heedlessly wade into melee, or easily get there in the first place against a foe with significant shooting output, especially a unique hero who can't benefit from defensive artefacts or command traits.

 

But I really like the model, and like many I've wanted a version of regular vampire lords who are scary in their own right, not just for the bonuses they grant to other units, so I'll still be trying to use this guy.  He's not legion locked, so you could run him as a second vampire (since you can't use the command ability twice in the same phase anyway) in an infantry heavy Vyrkos list, using the steed to help position the faction buff aura where you want it or stacking the tutor with the faction's casting re-rolls to power out endless spells.  Or you could run him in Kastelai, where he can keep pace with blood knights (who don't benefit from the vampire lord's command ability anyway), and benefits from the buffs for killing units.  Then again, Vyrkos has Radukar the Beast and Beladamma Volga, and while both are pricier than this guy I also feel like they bring more to the table, and Kastellai have the Vengorian who can also keep pace with blood knights and protect them with a rend malus aura.  All of these other heroes are more expensive than Cado, and arguably less damage output at least against very heavily armored opponents, but they also do more for the army I think.

I don't know.  Your thoughts?

 

EDIT: he doesn't benefit from subfactions, says so right there.  Whoops!

That only reinforces my feeling that despite his many cool benefits, he will still struggle to steal a spot from the generic lord.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Sception

[El Syf]

I think if they had made one of his heroic actions from the battleplan a command ability (probably the first one), he'd be really strong and a really good (non monster) hero hunter! Obviously would need a points increase too though.

The model floats my boat and the rules are better than I expected so i'm all in on him, probably pick the novel up too.

Edited August 18, 2022 by El Syf

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I like this guy as a harbinger for our possible 3rd edition tome. Between this guy and Deintalos the Exile, the Hunger rework is good trend. Let's hope they make the other unique vampire characters like Kritza and Annika as good as this guy next time around.

EDIT: That 20" flying move with The Steed and Amethystine Pinions sounds pretty cool. For a melee beatstick this guy is looking really good. Might throw him into lists where I have points to spare.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[El Syf]

Does anyone think flaming weapon could be a good shout for him? Boosts damage/mortals to 3 per attack. I’m going to try it out anyway.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, El Syf said:

Does anyone think flaming weapon could be a good shout for him? Boosts damage/mortals to 3 per attack. I’m going to try it out anyway.

3+/3+ is about a 50% chance to get an attack through, which means Flaming Weapon will add around 2.5 mortals with The Fallen. Seems decent enough to try. At 2+/2+ it should be around 3.5 mortals extra.

[Jaskier]

I thought unique characters can't take the core book spells? They don't get enhancements without exemptions and I don't think there's one for those three core book spells. It'd be nice but I think he's stuck with the Vampires' spell lore. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 hours ago, Jaskier said:

I thought unique characters can't take the core book spells? They don't get enhancements without exemptions and I don't think there's one for those three core book spells. It'd be nice but I think he's stuck with the Vampires' spell lore. 

Ah well, it's not like Pinions bad on him, and he does already have a damage spell on his warscroll anyway.

The warscroll is definitely pretty good. But I wonder if "small beatstick hero" is actually a thing more competitve lists want in Gravelords.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The warscroll is definitely pretty good. But I wonder if "small beatstick hero" is actually a thing more competitve lists want in Gravelords.

True… since the signature spell only targets „summonable“ units (sad bloodknights) and the „court of the lost“ is only chosen during your herophase, so fixed for two turns

there is no real reason to take him over a generic VL or even Necro. Both stand behind their screens, buff and keep the heck outta dodge.

his 6hp on a 3+\6++ gets him killed when he tries to do active things

in skilled hands with Mannfreds or the Coven Throne he could make an interesting counter charge suicide piece 🤔 for 3,47 hits with 2MWs (6-7MWs), but without flying 

More a fluff thing, like the small vyrkos heroes

[Rors]

If you cast flaming weapon, give him finest hour and use all out attack you could certainly surprise someone when he suicides in with 2/2s damage 3 mortals.

While comparison with a vampire lord makes obvious sense, I don't see him that way. He's a small chaff piece that can trade up into high armor. He doesn't have huge damage output but it is very consistent output due to being all mortals. If you can get him stuck into fulminators or something he'd be okay as a counter charging sacrifice.

Not sold that's worth it in competitive play.. but yeah, while he is a vampire lord I don't think that's his comparison point due to having a different role.

He could also ride the boat in suicide into a high value target or just clear screens out of the way.

[Sception]

16 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

3+/3+ is about a 50% chance to get an attack through, which means Flaming Weapon will add around 2.5 mortals with The Fallen. Seems decent enough to try. At 2+/2+ it should be around 3.5 mortals extra.

4.44... (5 attacks * 2/3 hit * 2/3 wound * 2 damage = 40/9) mortals unbuffed.  The sword is damage 2, or 2 mortals per successful wound roll with the Fallen up.

No flaming sword as as a unique hero, though.

again not nothing, but I'm not sure it's enough to earn his points & hero slot in a competitive setting.

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Sception said:

but I'm not sure it's enough to earn his points & hero slot in a competitive setting.

On the other handside, I kinda like the approach to not push some imba finecast filth for 30 bucks onto us.

[keen]

Does anyone know for how long this special Black Library models will be usually available? I guess those are limited for sales. 

Do you believe there is still a chance to get Cado Ezechiar ~mid of October? 

I would like to wait for the 10€ voucher from the Warhammer+ subscription 😉

[El Syf]

It doesn’t say anything about being limited, hopefully it’s a Gotrek situation and permanently available. The novel on the other is sold out according uk GW:(

[Sception]

On 8/19/2022 at 2:34 PM, Honk said:

On the other handside, I kinda like the approach to not push some imba finecast filth for 30 bucks onto us.

I don't know what imba means (google search didn't help, unless part of Cado's lore is that he's big into the mountain biking scene), but just to be clear, the model is in plastic, not finecast.  Otherwise, I don't think it's supposed to be limited, but who knows with GW these days.

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Sception said:

don't know what imba means

My speech is more youthful than the rest of me

 https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=imba

imbalanced 

[El Syf]

Does anyone have any list ideas for him yet? I was trying to come up with something for him to maximize his damage output but short of Vykros with him and Radukar The Beast bowling around together nothing great.

[Honk]

23 hours ago, El Syf said:

Does anyone have any list ideas for him yet?

I could see him doubling up with knights as an aggressive hero. 

charge in, fight and afterwards staying in the pitch, while the BKs get the healing spell and next charge. He takes the „damage“ Spirit and mops up the survivors 🤔

For those moments, when the vangorian lord is too expensive or somewhere else…

side-hero for Neffi or Manni 🤷🏿‍♀️ blocking or counter charge, since his healing hunger and spell is interesting.

maybe even healing Nagash 🤣 or VloZd etc…

As I said, the damage might be alright, but he is too expensive and too squishy to be thrown into melee.

I see his power in versatility and healing 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

On 8/25/2022 at 10:05 AM, El Syf said:

Does anyone have any list ideas for him yet? I was trying to come up with something for him to maximize his damage output but short of Vykros with him and Radukar The Beast bowling around together nothing great.

Personally, I think Cado's strenght is as an independent operator rather than a combo piece. The threat of high quality damage or high mobility he brings without requiring further support is why I would bring him.

But he is not really a team player. He can't take artefacts or command traits, doesn't take or give out buffs especially well and has no super high value spells. He doesn't even get subfaction bonuses, so he's not exactly better in any particular one of them.

I would say use him as a one-man-show rather than a build-around.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[El Syf]

I know we've been through this and his warscroll says he can't gain subfaction keywords etc but according to the warscroll builder he can!

Whereas, Manfred, Vhordrai etc don't get the option to. Again I know we've been through it all; just find it very odd and misleading that warscroll builder lets you give him all the naughty stuff we wish he could have!

[Leshoyadut]

10 hours ago, El Syf said:

I know we've been through this and his warscroll says he can't gain subfaction keywords etc but according to the warscroll builder he can!

Whereas, Manfred, Vhordrai etc don't get the option to. Again I know we've been through it all; just find it very odd and misleading that warscroll builder lets you give him all the naughty stuff we wish he could have!

The warscroll builder and the mobile app are both wrong way too often for what are supposed to be the "official" list building options. It's dumb that they let those go with so many issues consistently.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Leshoyadut

[Sception]

Cado's starting to show up in some tournaments, including Anthony Lawrence's impressive 5-0 list, so that's pretty cool.  I finally got my own Cado model for Christmas, & I'm looking forward to painting him up.

 

 

[El Syf]

Just thought I’d add a quick tidbit to this thread. Played Cado last weekend and he absolutely slapped, buffed by Manfred’s aura I needed to do ten mortals to kill a durthu. Guess what? The boy did good. 
Love the model, love the rules, just wish he had his battle plan specific command ability on his scroll.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I was deeply skeptical of him, glad to hear he's a neat option.

[DarthAnnüss]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:53 PM, El Syf said:

Just thought I’d add a quick tidbit to this thread. Played Cado last weekend and he absolutely slapped, buffed by Manfred’s aura I needed to do ten mortals to kill a durthu. Guess what? The boy did good. 
Love the model, love the rules, just wish he had his battle plan specific command ability on his scroll.

Are you talking about Winds of Death?

[El Syf]

Can’t remember what it’s called but I’m his scenario he had a command ability that basically acted like challenges from oldhammer