AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[woolf]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

Grinnin blades ability did nothing, he was playing nighthaunt and didn't really have anything in the list that cared about vision at range.
The 20 bounty hunter gutrippaz really put out a lot of damage against anything that was GV, they stuck around for a while but if I had positioned a bit worse they could've died very easily. They easily deleted 2 units (my opponent conceded before my 3rd turn at the bottom of BR 3).
The vulture didn't really impress me, but it wasn't dead weight either, I used its speed to nab objectives and dispel purple sun from arcane terrain, and it triple fought alongside the sludgeraker and gutrippaz. It failed to kill 20 chainrasps in one combat, but thats not very surprising as it only averages like 10 damage. I'll need to play with it a bit more but I could see it being a useful piece as its our fastest unit, by a pretty significant margin. I'm toying with making it the general instead of the sludgeraker because when you castle up the sludgeraker it can be tough to maneuver it into combat sometimes, and in order to use kruleboyz waaagh! the general needs to fight. The vulture can easily get where you need it to be so you can get the most out of the ability.
I think the biggest thing that led to my success though was being able to choose to go second. My castle protected me from alpha strikes, I got extra CP, and had full control over any double turns. Even when you're against alpha shooting the grinnin blades ability will protect your key pieces inside the castle.

thx for sharing! did u feel pain from missing out extra bolt boy range? eg forced to stand and shoot rather than move or something like that?

[Ganigumo]

50 minutes ago, woolf said:

thx for sharing! did u feel pain from missing out extra bolt boy range? eg forced to stand and shoot rather than move or something like that?

It was a challenge to get into hasty shot range at times, but I didn't have trouble finding something to shoot at, even if I was using aimed shots.
It might be a challenge against less aggressive armies though.

[woolf]

19 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

It was a challenge to get into hasty shot range at times, but I didn't have trouble finding something to shoot at, even if I was using aimed shots.
It might be a challenge against less aggressive armies though.

what do you think about using Gobsprakk instead of killaboss vulture? given that the dmg is low anyways, would perhaps add even more utility

[Ganigumo]

22 minutes ago, woolf said:

what do you think about using Gobsprakk instead of killaboss vulture? given that the dmg is low anyways, would perhaps add even more utility

The biggest reason I'm not using Gobsprakk is that I don't have him built/painted (I still need to finish painting my killaboss on vulture and 20 hobgrots for my list, I started painting the killaboss variant before I had decided I wanted to take KB to the event.)

Gobsprakk is a good call out though, I've been wondering if I should put him in myself, the damage isn't that different between the two and he's a better wizard, but he's not a warmaster, so If I wanted him to be able to use kruleboyz Waaagh! I'd need to give up my command trait. He's not a phenomenal wizard, but even a once per game 3d6 unbind might help in the purple sun meta.

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

Gobsprakk is a good call out though, I've been wondering if I should put him in myself, the damage isn't that different between the two and he's a better wizard, but he's not a warmaster, so If I wanted him to be able to use kruleboyz Waaagh! I'd need to give up my command trait. He's not a phenomenal wizard, but even a once per game 3d6 unbind might help in the purple sun meta.

Are you using the Waaagh a lot to justify giving up the trait? I imagine that egomaniak would be pretty important for keeping the sludgraker alive vs lists more shooting/magic heavy opponents (although grinning blades should already help against those lists). Our Waaagh is pretty good, but I'm not sure it's worth warping your list too much around it.

[Sonnenspeer]

Are you able to magnetise Gobsprakk/Killaboss so that you can switch between the two without buying the model twice?

[woolf]

18 minutes ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Are you able to magnetise Gobsprakk/Killaboss so that you can switch between the two without buying the model twice?

I'm yet to buy that model myself and had the same thought, it was fairly easy with the sludgeraker but I think Gobsprakk/Killaboss looks quite challenging to do a perfect swap on. that said if u just make the vulture head magnetised and try to fit shield and maybe spear it should be perfectly fine I think

[woolf]

27 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Are you using the Waaagh a lot to justify giving up the trait? I imagine that egomaniak would be pretty important for keeping the sludgraker alive vs lists more shooting/magic heavy opponents (although grinning blades should already help against those lists). Our Waaagh is pretty good, but I'm not sure it's worth warping your list too much around it.

yeah and also with sludgeraker general it's not like you never get opportunity for waagh, the list had him already as general after all

[Ganigumo]

23 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Are you using the Waaagh a lot to justify giving up the trait? I imagine that egomaniak would be pretty important for keeping the sludgraker alive vs lists more shooting/magic heavy opponents (although grinning blades should already help against those lists). Our Waaagh is pretty good, but I'm not sure it's worth warping your list too much around it.

I think egomaniak sludgeraker in grinnin blades is probably overkill. In terms of using Kruleboyz Waaagh! after using the sludgeraker I felt the vulture would be a much better initiator because of its mobility. The sludgeraker wants to be in the middle of your army, to spread the buff, only has an 8" move without fly, and you'll want to be screening it to protect it from shooting/charges. As a result its not always trivial to get him into combat depending on where your other units and the terrain is.
Having 2-3 units fighting first can cripple an opposing army if you've got a good opportunity and the vulture is way better at finding those opportunities.

17 minutes ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Are you able to magnetise Gobsprakk/Killaboss so that you can switch between the two without buying the model twice?

Should be able to but I've already got a second. I'm planning on magnetizing this one though.

7 minutes ago, woolf said:

I'm yet to buy that model myself and had the same thought, it was fairly easy with the sludgeraker but I think Gobsprakk/Killaboss looks quite challenging to do a perfect swap on. that said if u just make the vulture head magnetised and try to fit shield and maybe spear it should be perfectly fine I think

The killaboss and gobsprakk only share their feet, other than that they're completely different models. When I magnetize the second bird I'm just going to give it the grot on the back, pick a bird head, and just magnetize the killaboss/gobsprakk

[woolf]

slightly change of topic but have u guys considered moving to Big Waagh, while leaning into KB still (since hey models are frakking awesome obv)

was thinking goregruntas should be good as takers for BH, which we kinda lack in KB. and also we only give up waagh (and tricks but I always found those pretty marginal), and get the waagh table for it...

Happy to hear ppls thoughts!

[KarrWolves]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

The biggest reason I'm not using Gobsprakk is that I don't have him built/painted (I still need to finish painting my killaboss on vulture and 20 hobgrots for my list, I started painting the killaboss variant before I had decided I wanted to take KB to the event.)

Gobsprakk is a good call out though, I've been wondering if I should put him in myself, the damage isn't that different between the two and he's a better wizard, but he's not a warmaster, so If I wanted him to be able to use kruleboyz Waaagh! I'd need to give up my command trait. He's not a phenomenal wizard, but even a once per game 3d6 unbind might help in the purple sun meta.

Have you tried playing with the Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth ? He does an insane amount of damage for his point cost and with Supa Sneaky / Fast 'Un, he can be sent to do a mini alphastrike if you opponent is not careful in his/her setup. 

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

slightly change of topic but have u guys considered moving to Big Waagh, while leaning into KB still (since hey models are frakking awesome obv)

was thinking goregruntas should be good as takers for BH, which we kinda lack in KB. and also we only give up waagh (and tricks but I always found those pretty marginal), and get the waagh table for it...

Happy to hear ppls thoughts!

Not sure how KB units fare, but I'm curious if Hacka gutrippaz would be any good, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with mortals on 6s but no rend. The big waaagh! bonus attack is a big deal on kruleboyz models, since its more opportunities to fish for mortals, but I think they might struggle to get there.

1 hour ago, KarrWolves said:

Have you tried playing with the Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth ? He does an insane amount of damage for his point cost and with Supa Sneaky / Fast 'Un, he can be sent to do a mini alphastrike if you opponent is not careful in his/her setup. 

Haven't tried him yet, I know he hits like a truck but the only piece that he could swap in for is the killaboss on vulture. I'd love to swap the 10 man unit of gutrippaz out for him, but I need them for battleline.

[Arzalyn]

3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I think egomaniak sludgeraker in grinnin blades is probably overkill. In terms of using Kruleboyz Waaagh! after using the sludgeraker I felt the vulture would be a much better initiator because of its mobility. The sludgeraker wants to be in the middle of your army, to spread the buff, only has an 8" move without fly, and you'll want to be screening it to protect it from shooting/charges. As a result its not always trivial to get him into combat depending on where your other units and the terrain is.
Having 2-3 units fighting first can cripple an opposing army if you've got a good opportunity and the vulture is way better at finding those opportunities.

Yeah, the vulture is better for the waaagh for sure, I was wondering more how frequently you are getting to use it to its full effects with 3 melee units in combat. It may be my bias as the games I got were mostly with the Big Yellers shooting list which never got much use of it.

What command trait would you take with the vulture as a general? I imagine egomaniak may be a little counter intuitive with its high move and i'm not sure its resilient enough to make use of slippery. Maybe super sneaky to set some gutrippaz ahead so they can keep up with the general? Or even just putting some hobgrots as road blockers if you end getting to go first.

[woolf]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Not sure how KB units fare, but I'm curious if Hacka gutrippaz would be any good, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with mortals on 6s but no rend. The big waaagh! bonus attack is a big deal on kruleboyz models, since its more opportunities to fish for mortals, but I think they might struggle to get there.

was thinking something like this maybe

 - Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
     - Army Type: Big Waaagh!
     - Grand Strategy: Waaagh!
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Wurrgog Prophet (150)*
     - Artefacts of Power: Glowin’ Tattooz
Gobsprakk (280)*
     - Spells: Choking Mist
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)****
     - General
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
BATTLELINE
Gutrippaz (180)**
     - Gutrippa Banner Bearer
     - Gutrippa Hornblower
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
Orruk Ardboys (85)***
     - Gorkamorka Glyph Bearer
     - Waaagh! Drummer
     - Ardboy Boss
     - 2 x Orruk-forged Shield
Orruk Ardboys (85)***
     - Gorkamorka Glyph Bearer
     - Waaagh! Drummer
     - Ardboy Boss
     - 2 x Orruk-forged Shield
Gutrippaz (180)****
     - Gutrippa Banner Bearer
     - Gutrippa Drummer
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
OTHER
Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)**
     - Gore-grunta Boss
     - Jagged Gore-hacka
Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)**
     - Gore-grunta Boss
     - Jagged Gore-hacka
Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)****
Marshcrawla Sloggoth (150)****
CORE BATTALIONS
*Command Entourage
     - Magnificent

**Bounty Hunters
***Expert Conquerors
****Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Arzalyn said:

Yeah, the vulture is better for the waaagh for sure, I was wondering more how frequently you are getting to use it to its full effects with 3 melee units in combat. It may be my bias as the games I got were mostly with the Big Yellers shooting list which never got much use of it.

What command trait would you take with the vulture as a general? I imagine egomaniak may be a little counter intuitive with its high move and i'm not sure its resilient enough to make use of slippery. Maybe super sneaky to set some gutrippaz ahead so they can keep up with the general? Or even just putting some hobgrots as road blockers if you end getting to go first.

Supa Sneaky is a solid backup, since its a cool trick. I was considering slippery Skumbag but apparently there's a bit of a rules loophole (whether its intentional or not) where a flying unit making a normal move outside of the movement phase can just move out of combat with no restrictions. Honestly master of magic is pretty tempting too, I could possibly squeeze an endless spell in, and the average of 2d6 rerolling is like a 9, which is enough to dispel purple suns.

[woolf]

28 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

flying unit making a normal move outside of the movement phase can just move out of combat with no restrictions

how does it work? 🤔 

[Ganigumo]

Just now, woolf said:

how does it work? 🤔 

8.0 Movement Phase:
 

Quote

In your movement phase, you can pick 1 friendly unit that is more than 3" from all enemy units and declare that it will make a normal move or that it will run, or you can pick 1 friendly unit that is within 3" of an enemy unit and declare that it will retreat.

Note: this restriction is only for picking units to move in the movement phase
8.1 Normal Move:

Quote

When you pick a unit to make a normal move, you can move each model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on the unit’s warscroll. Units cannot move within 3" of enemy units when making a normal move.

Of particular note is the fact that 8.1 doesn't have any restriction about being more than 3" away, that restriction is only for picking a unit to make a normal move in the movement phase, still units can't have any part of their movement within 3" of an enemy (including the start of it) so you wouldn't be able to move away anyways.

9.4 Flying
 

Quote

If the warscroll used by a model says that it can fly, you can ignore other models and terrain features when you trace the path of its move across the battlefield (it flies over them).

Flying lets you ignore other models when you trace the models path (this is how you can fly over enemy units) but will also let you ignore the restriction in 8.1
So flying ignores the 8.1 restriction, and the 8.0 restriction only applies in the movement phase, so if a flying unit normal moves in another phase they can just move out of combat.

I'm pretty sure I've got all the pieces together here, I saw some talk about it on twitter and looked into the rules and it checks out.

[KarrWolves]

That's clearly not intended and shouldn't be played as such. I'm pretty sure all TOs would say that's not legal.

But that's a good thing to have noticed that loophole so it can be fixed in the next FAQ.

[Rachmani]

Try the Killaboss on the doggo, too.

His damage is still solid and with shaman +1 to saves and another +1 to saves bonus he tanks like a champ. He‘s not as fast as the vulture, but still reasonably fast & super self reliant.

 

[Holy_Diver]

I wanna try a 3 Mirebrute Waaagh with a Sloggoth behind 😆  for "one hell of a party".

The reaining list (Big Yellers) is: 

Sludgeraker
Shaman
10 x Gutrippaz
2 x 6 Boltboyz
2 x10 Grots (no battline)
Shackles

Edited July 13, 2022 by Holy_Diver

[Ganigumo]

Got a game in against blades of khorne with the same list, on the nidus paths, I won by a very small margin because I made a few mistakes picking battle tactics. It made me really want another screen in the list, but I can't really find points for it unless I drop the 20 gutrippaz down to 10. If I do that I'd have 235 points to play around with, but I wouldn't have a GV that can pump out damage.

 

On 7/13/2022 at 7:11 AM, Holy_Diver said:

I wanna try a 3 Mirebrute Waaagh with a Sloggoth behind 😆  for "one hell of a party".

The reaining list (Big Yellers) is: 

Sludgeraker
Shaman
10 x Gutrippaz
2 x 6 Boltboyz
2 x10 Grots (no battline)
Shackles

It'll certainly hit hard, but if you're up against shooting you might have some trouble.

[KarrWolves]

47 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Got a game in against blades of khorne with the same list, on the nidus paths, I won by a very small margin because I made a few mistakes picking battle tactics. It made me really want another screen in the list, but I can't really find points for it unless I drop the 20 gutrippaz down to 10. If I do that I'd have 235 points to play around with, but I wouldn't have a GV that can pump out damage.

 

It'll certainly hit hard, but if you're up against shooting you might have some trouble.

Thanks for the feedback! Did you change anything in your list compared to before?

How did the Killaboss and the Gutrippaz do this time? And did you manage to get a good Waaagh?

[Ganigumo]

1 minute ago, KarrWolves said:

Thanks for the feedback! Did you change anything in your list compared to before?

How did the Killaboss and the Gutrippaz do this time? And did you manage to get a good Waaagh?

exact same list.
The 20 gutrippaz got blown off pretty quickly, I needed something to cover the flank since I needed to zone out the nidus path in the corner with something to protect my boltboyz. They did take out a unit of skullcrushers in the process though.

20 bounty hunter gutrippaz can do some great damage, but the application is pretty tough. 5" move with a 5+ save makes it tough to apply that damage.
Killaboss was a bit of a threat, between fast 'un and sneaky miasma he's got a potential 42" move, even if his damage is a bit lacking.
My Waaagh! turn was a bit underwhelming, but I'd say it was still a pretty good activation. I fought with 10 gutrippaz, the sludgeraker, and the killaboss and took out an entire unit of wrathmongers and a handful of blood warriors (that I had shot at before).

I'm not sure if Kruleboyz play well into the new rules, shooting is as good as ever, and I rate grinnin blades really highly, but I think they'll fold pretty quickly to some of the more aggressive and/or durable armies.

[KarrWolves]

6 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

exact same list.
The 20 gutrippaz got blown off pretty quickly, I needed something to cover the flank since I needed to zone out the nidus path in the corner with something to protect my boltboyz. They did take out a unit of skullcrushers in the process though.

20 bounty hunter gutrippaz can do some great damage, but the application is pretty tough. 5" move with a 5+ save makes it tough to apply that damage.
Killaboss was a bit of a threat, between fast 'un and sneaky miasma he's got a potential 42" move, even if his damage is a bit lacking.
My Waaagh! turn was a bit underwhelming, but I'd say it was still a pretty good activation. I fought with 10 gutrippaz, the sludgeraker, and the killaboss and took out an entire unit of wrathmongers and a handful of blood warriors (that I had shot at before).

I'm not sure if Kruleboyz play well into the new rules, shooting is as good as ever, and I rate grinnin blades really highly, but I think they'll fold pretty quickly to some of the more aggressive and/or durable armies.

I completely agree: the buff from Grinnin' Blades is really good but the current season clearly compensates (in the bad way) so they probably still belong to the "low tier". But that means there is hope for the next season!

[Arzalyn]

19 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I'm not sure if Kruleboyz play well into the new rules, shooting is as good as ever, and I rate grinnin blades really highly, but I think they'll fold pretty quickly to some of the more aggressive and/or durable armies.

Yeah I'm getting the same impression with my tests so far. Bounty Hunters just wreck Gutrippaz. Before they used to last some attacks at least, but every game I got on the new GHB they just melt once a bounty hunter gets near them. The visibility effect of grinning blades is good, but it it be all or nothing in the matches I played (or it really do work or it changes nothing cause the opponent don't have long range shooting/spells). I'm not sure yet it is worth the tax of having to take 2x Gutrippaz for the battleline.