AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Malakree]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Greetings from a safe distance, Kruleboyz!  I have read that there might be 2 Troggoth units in your army and one or both can grant my hungry Ogors +1 to hit somehow with an aura perhaps?  Anyone know which units these are?  No free warscrolls on the GW site anymore....wasn't wanting to buy a whole tome, but that Mirebrute sure looks pretty awesome, and only $50!

Please and thank youz!

Can ogors ally orruk warclans?

[Stux]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Can ogors ally orruk warclans?

No, unfortunately. 

[LandonGolds]

Is it possible/worth it to convert the Murknob to a second Swampcalla? Or will the best choice be to take one of each in the list?

[woolf]

17 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Monte Carlo 😡

Jokes aside, part of the enjoyment I get out of doing this math is seeing what components play into the final result and how. Running a simulation is just not very fun to me 🙂

haha fair enough  and when I browsed down, noted that you seemingly worked it out ^^ personally I always found the many layered decision trees of conditional probabilities to be too much to cope with so I tend to just run some random dice generator to get a rough answer (admittedly far from the same level of elegance!)

[Stux]

3 hours ago, LandonGolds said:

Is it possible/worth it to convert the Murknob to a second Swampcalla? Or will the best choice be to take one of each in the list?

Bit early to say for sure, there's been debate over which is the more useful out of a second Swampy or first Murky.

I think more people are planning for the second Swampcalla. Some lists will probably run double Swampcalla AND a Murknob.

[Sivyre]

8 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I see Gutrippaz in units of 10s and I also see lists with units of 20. What's the main advantage of running MSU vs reinforced unit. In both cases, I would use units of Hobgrots to screen and I would have a Killaboss for battleshock.

Units of 10 are likely seen as to run off and grab/hold objectives or even act as screens themselves, same reason you see units of 10 hobgrotts.

guttrippaz in bodies of 20 there roll changes to essential body anything on the center objective where the game tends to see most play. 40 wounds is hard to move and with a sludgeraker present the shear weight of dice will fish those 6’s and the extra 1 dmg on a 6 from the support puts your opponent psychologically in a hard place. Stuff like AoD and mystic shield makes it harder to move them and your support from sludgeraker, KB, and boltboyz suddenly could swing your opponents priorities but it’s not an easy choice for them. And this is all before the fact you have a 2” reach wall where if you wrap units all your attacks are getting in for the most part with no issues from coherrancy 

hard to charge into them too with boltboyz ready to lay waste even further reducing whatever what’s to crash into them.

ive played 10 and 20 unit gutrippaz and 20 is a magic number for these guys 10 they don’t do anything 30 is way over kill and your missing attacks and of course these “wholly within” but 20 is juuuuust right - like the bowl of porridge. 
of course with all that it’s your preference and your strategy that will make either work and for me maybe I failed to make 10 and 30 work but I had a lot of success with 20

[Acrozatarim]

While Gutrippaz are probably a bit overcosted, I think generally people are underestimating them as well. They're genuinely pretty solid - just fiddlier to use than the simplicity of the Boltboyz. But I suspect really shooting-heavy Kruleboyz armies are going to struggle.

[Rachmani]

I really like the 20 Gutrippaz + 2x6 Boltboys Core in Big Yellers. The other ones would have to play differently and honestly I'm not sure how exactly. Maybe someone will one day boldly field a crawlers army with 3x20 Gutrippaz & 2 sludge rakers, KB on Vulcha etc. and do really well with it and we'll all be like "omg, so obvious!"

[Malakree]

Been having a think about this, I'm wondering why you would use gutripperz over hobgrots in a big yellers army. Why wouldn't you just go for something like this instead.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 13

Lean into the shooting aspect, The Hobgrots provide an amazing screen with 6 units of them and your ranged potential is terrifying. It seems to be that for a big yeller army 2 units of hobgrots at 160 points are better than 1 unit of gutripperz at 180 because you can just get your battleline out of the boltboyz instead.

[Arzalyn]

9 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Been having a think about this, I'm wondering why you would use gutripperz over hobgrots in a big yellers army. Why wouldn't you just go for something like this instead.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 13

Lean into the shooting aspect, The Hobgrots provide an amazing screen with 6 units of them and your ranged potential is terrifying. It seems to be that for a big yeller army 2 units of hobgrots at 160 points are better than 1 unit of gutripperz at 180 because you can just get your battleline out of the boltboyz instead.

I you just want the bodies and screen for the boltboyz the hobgrots truly are better for this function. 20 Guttripaz would be better you want something with some staying power to hold something longer than the hobgrots. In general I agree with you that yellers would probably make better use of the hobgrotz, as you just need something to protect your boltboyz and score some points at the start of the game.

About the list, wouldn't it be better to use the boltboyz in 2 units of 9 and one of 3 + another shaman (21 boltboyz in total rather 24)? Or if you want to field 24 of them, as you have just one shaman to buff one unit, the other ones would probably be better at minimum size. A unit of 3 has 7/4 hasty/aimed shoots while a unit of 6 has 13/7, you gain a extra attack with two units of 3 and reduce the amount of model you loos for battleshock.

[Acrozatarim]

I mean, you take Gutrippaz with Big Yellers because for their points they're more resilient and more killy in melee, hilariously more so when in 12" of a Sludgeraker.

Hobgrotz are great as screens/skirmishers and bodies on objectives, don't get me wrong, but I'd be really worried with an army that's nothing but missile troops and screens that there's so little to counterpunch with - especially if the enemy have missile troops of their own and can just shoot your Boltboyz.

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Hobgrotz are great as screens/skirmishers and bodies on objectives, don't get me wrong, but I'd be really worried with an army that's nothing but missile troops and screens that there's so little to counterpunch with - especially if the enemy have missile troops of their own and can just shoot your Boltboyz.

I mean, ignoring the mortals (yes I know) hobgrot grenades are better point for point than gutripper weapons. 20 gutripperz is 6 boltboyz and 10 hobgrotz. I think calling hobgrotz just "screens" is underselling them quite a bit, they are a 19" threat range 10 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1. Not least having so many means you can layer your screens all of which can shoot without getting into combat.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Malakree

[Arzalyn]

34 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

Maybe someone will one day boldly field a crawlers army with 3x20 Gutrippaz & 2 sludge rakers, KB on Vulcha etc. and do really well with it and we'll all be like "omg, so obvious!"

I really hope this happen, but I doubt it will. Guttripaz are too expensive to focus on right now. 3 units of 20 is 1080, which kind of force you to focus the remaining points to support them, otherwise you just expend half your points into ok-ish anvils. Its funny that the units you suggest make exactly a 2k points list (1950 points). Maybe if the drop to 160 points in the future it would make list building around them a little easier.

6 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

I mean, you take Gutrippaz with Big Yellers because for their points they're more resilient and more killy in melee, hilariously more so when in 12" of a Sludgeraker.

Hobgrotz are great as screens/skirmishers and bodies on objectives, don't get me wrong, but I'd be really worried with an army that's nothing but missile troops and screens that there's so little to counterpunch with - especially if the enemy have missile troops of their own and can just shoot your Boltboyz.

Don't get me wrong, I also like 20 of them in a yeller list for the reasons you said, but I can see it working without them in some matches. Yellers fells like a big death star (or two depending on the number of shamans/sludgerakers), it fells like they want just something to sponge the initial charge and unleash hell in return while they advance. In Yellers lists with 2 sludgerakers they can pack a punch too, which could compensate the lack of damage from the hobgrots. Shooting the Boltboyz can be problematic, but against those lists Covered in Mud can help mitigate this problem.

[Acrozatarim]

16 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I mean, ignoring the mortals (yes I know) hobgrot grenades are better point for point than gutripper weapons. 20 gutripperz is 6 boltboyz and 10 hobgrotz. I think calling hobgrotz just "screens" is underselling them quite a bit, they are a 19" threat range 10 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1. Not least having so many means you can layer your screens all of which can shoot without getting into combat.

You can't really ignore the mortals, though; they're absolutely crucial to Boltboyz and Gutrippaz both. Ignore them, and you might as well replace your Boltboyz with Hobgrots as well, because if it were all 'just' regular wounds the Hobgrots do more damage there too!

But the mortal wounds are there and they're absolutely critical to the way the army functions, and to the synergies with the Sludgeraker and shaman. The Sludgeraker aura alone causes Gutrippa damage to absolutely take off, even in just a 10-man unit, and Gutrippaz get more out of the aura than even Boltboyz do.

I agree that Hobgrots are decent - hence why I referred to them as skirmishers as well rather than just chaff/screens - but they aren't going to do the job of Gutrippaz, and I think relying on Hobgrots alone to hold back the enemy army while your Boltboyz shoot is probably not going to work out all that well in play.

I would always want some Hobgrots in my army, so I'm really not trying to rubbish them.

Edit: Ironically enough, I was mostly preparing myself to be defending Hobgrots in this thread rather than be talking them down at all

Edited September 24, 2021 by Acrozatarim

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Acrozatarim said:

While Gutrippaz are probably a bit overcosted, I think generally people are underestimating them as well. They're genuinely pretty solid - just fiddlier to use than the simplicity of the Boltboyz. But I suspect really shooting-heavy Kruleboyz armies are going to struggle.

gutrippaz can definitely pump out damage if you buff them up (with the sludgeraker and the shaman poison you get roughly 1 mortal wound per gutrippa). They have several problems though, between the skareshields only working the first turn they fight, the shaman applying poisons in the hero phase, and only to things not in combat they're just a unit that becomes frustrating to use to their potential. If they're caught grinding they basically don't get to have a poison again for the rest of the game. They've also got stiff competition from sludgerakers in the damage perspective, hobgrots in the bodies/wounds perspective, and boltboyz as a buff recipient.

I've said it before but I think the competitive kruleboyz list will be some variation of: 12 boltboyz (2 units), 2 killbows, 2 sludgerakers, 2 shamans, 10 gutrippaz, then filling the rest of the army with more wounds and chaff. I think going full shooting is wrong, but basically all of the synergies work best on our shooting units, and projecting power is strong.

Gutrippaz really needed to be able to have the shaman reapply the poison on them reliably, being able to retreat at the end/start of a turn (maybe as a command ability) would've felt proper kunning and done the trick, and also make skareshields more consistent.

[Malakree]

34 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

You can't really ignore the mortals, though; they're absolutely crucial to Boltboyz and Gutrippaz both. Ignore them, and you might as well replace your Boltboyz with Hobgrots as well, because if it were all 'just' regular wounds the Hobgrots do more damage there too!

But the mortal wounds are there and they're absolutely critical to the way the army functions, and to the synergies with the Sludgeraker and shaman. The Sludgeraker aura alone causes Gutrippa damage to absolutely take off, even in just a 10-man unit, and Gutrippaz get more out of the aura than even Boltboyz do.

So damage results. There is a slight approximation due to how I do the mortal wounds on the tool, end result is that gutripperz/boltboyz could theoretically do twice their maximum damage but neither of the graphs gets close. Also this is using the 12" shots of the boltboyz, the method I use wouldn't work properly with the 24" attack.

This is of course comparing the melee attacks of gutripperz vs the shooting attacks of hobgrotz/boltboyz, which avoids the combat priority and doesn't put them at risk of retaliation. In addition the 20 shots of the hobgrots come from 2 seperate units so can be more appropriately split if required. Not to mention the opponent can only inflict a maximum of 10 wounds not 20.

[Rotbinger]

Had my first proper game since the release of the Warclans tome last night against a good Hedonites player, and tabled him by the end of turn 3. 😬 Mind, he deserved it considering he's been hammering me for weeks without the book. 😂

This was my list

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired
- Drirty Tricks: Covered in Mud
Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (300)
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- General
- Command Trait: Slippery Skumbag
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
- Lore of the Swamp: Da Black Pit

Battleline
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Grand Battery

Total: 1965 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 5
 

If anyone has any cool ideas for adapting this list, I'd love to hear them. 😊

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Rotbinger
Typo

[MiniJunkie]

34 minutes ago, Rotbinger said:

Had my first proper game since the release of the Warclans tome last night against a good Hedonites player, and tabled him by the end of turn 3. 😬 Mind, he deserved it considering he's been hammering me for weeks without the book. 😂

This was my list

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired
- Drirty Tricks: Covered in Mud
Leaders
Gobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (300)
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- General
- Command Trait: Slippery Skumbag
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
- Lore of the Swamp: Da Black Pit

Battleline
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Grand Battery

Total: 1965 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 5
 

If anyone has any cool ideas for adapting this list, I'd love to hear them. 😊

 

 

Forgive my ignorance, but how are you able to use the Boltboyz as Battleline?

[Rachmani]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

So damage results. There is a slight approximation due to how I do the mortal wounds on the tool, end result is that gutripperz/boltboyz could theoretically do twice their maximum damage but neither of the graphs gets close. Also this is using the 12" shots of the boltboyz, the method I use wouldn't work properly with the 24" attack.

This is of course comparing the melee attacks of gutripperz vs the shooting attacks of hobgrotz/boltboyz, which avoids the combat priority and doesn't put them at risk of retaliation. In addition the 20 shots of the hobgrots come from 2 seperate units so can be more appropriately split if required. Not to mention the opponent can only inflict a maximum of 10 wounds not 20.

This is without a Sludgeraker, right?

Anyway, my take is that I feel Kruleboyz as a whole need some kind of anchor to structure around. 20 Gutrippaz feel (feel because I need to test that out) like they could be that unit. But maybe 10 and good positioning will be the proper size. Who knows? 
I just don't think the army will work properly without fighting units that can move out & do stuff.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Rachmani

[Rachmani]

1 minute ago, MiniJunkie said:

Forgive my ignorance, but how are you able to use the Boltboyz as Battleline?

The "Big Yeller" Clan allows for Boltboys to be Battleline. They're the only clan with a conditional Battleline, though.

[Connelj2]

 

10 hours ago, LandonGolds said:

Is it possible/worth it to convert the Murknob to a second Swampcalla? Or will the best choice be to take one of each in the list?

YES! I converted by second swampcalla from the murknob

[MiniJunkie]

29 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

The "Big Yeller" Clan allows for Boltboys to be Battleline. They're the only clan with a conditional Battleline, though.

Thank you!

[Rotbinger]

41 minutes ago, MiniJunkie said:

Forgive my ignorance, but how are you able to use the Boltboyz as Battleline?

If you take the Big Yellers Clan you can pick them as battleline.  😊

[Krule Tyrant]

So everyone has been talking about the ranged output of the kruelboyz but I have played three games now with melee only kruelboyz and I have had great success with this list. So far I have won against a knight of the empty throne list and a dominion stormcast list and I only lost against a tzeentch list due to messing up my battle tactics.

 

Army Name: Grinning blades
Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
Army Type: Kruleboyz
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 pts
General: Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumph: Indomitable
Battle Trait Bonus: Dirty Tricks, Noisy Racket
Units
    Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth
        Battlefield Role: Leader
        Points Cost: 180 pts
    Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth
        Battlefield Role: Leader
        Points Cost: 180 pts
    Gobsprakk
        Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader
        Points Cost: 300 pts
    Killaboss on Corpse-rippa Vulcha
        Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader
        Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny
        Mount Traits: Fast ’Un
        Points Cost: 240 pts
    Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (General)
        Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader
        Command Traits: Egomaniak
        Points Cost: 315 pts
    Murknob with Belcha-banna
        Battlefield Role: Leader
        Points Cost: 95 pts

Marshcrawla sloggoth 150
Core Battalions
    Hunters of the Heartlands
        Gutrippaz
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 180 pts
        Gutrippaz
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 180 pts
        Gutrippaz
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 180 pts
Total Points: 2000pts

Anybody else have any success with melee build kruelboyz?
 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Krule Tyrant

[Acrozatarim]

19 minutes ago, Krule Tyrant said:

So everyone has been talking about the ranged output of the kruelboyz but I have played three games now with melee only kruelboyz and I have had great success with this list. So far I have won against a knight of the empty throne list and a dominion stormcast list and I only lost against a tzeentch list due to messing up my battle tactics.

 

Can you explain a bit about how this army list works in practice and what its strengths/weaknesses are? I'm struggling slightly to envisage what the overall strategy is, particularly wrt to the big birds.