Broken Realms: Kragnos - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[PrimeElectrid]

While I’ve enjoyed BR for what they are, the fluff has well and truly jumped the shark. Seraphon have pyramid ships that can shoot out orbit, LRL can levitate rocks, and Kroak can open portals at will without a realmgate. Not to mention the mobile floating islands referred to in Dawnbringer Crusades.

The military applications of these concepts render the need for armies to hit each other with swords more contrived than the 40k universe.

[Carnelian]

8 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

While I’ve enjoyed BR for what they are, the fluff has well and truly jumped the shark. Seraphon have pyramid ships that can shoot out orbit, LRL can levitate rocks, and Kroak can open portals at will without a realmgate. Not to mention the mobile floating islands referred to in Dawnbringer Crusades.

The military applications of these concepts render the need for armies to hit each other with swords more contrived than the 40k universe.

These things have been present since the very birth of AOS so no jumping the shark here.

AOS was born post-shark jump

[King Under the Mountain]

3 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

The military applications of these concepts render the need for armies to hit each other with swords more contrived than the 40k universe.

Funny enough that was always one of my issues with 40k in the lore.  When the Imperium can wipe out a whole planet with a push of a button, makes the fighting on the ground seem kinda redundant (I know there's story reasons for ground combat but those are hand wavy excuses, Air Power changes the way war is played, let alone Space Power)  

[PJetski]

Finished reading BR: Kragnos last night. Disappointing finish to the saga.

The Alarielle portion of the book feels very impactful to the setting, but it's rushed as just a couple pages of prologue. I get the impression that Alarielle vs Beasts of Chaos (and maybe Spiderfang?) and the resurrection of the Oak of Ages was supposed to be its own Broken Realms book but for one reason or another they cut that book and crammed that story into Kragnos.

Gardus didn't even show up in the battle for Excelsis despite all the buildup?

Morathi suffers no consequences for her objectively evil actions (yet again) because Grungni shows up in the last sentence of the story to stop any kind of interesting character conflict. Boring. 

Kroak and the Seraphon did very little during the siege.

Why bother setting up the Gordrakk godbeast artifact storyline since Forbidden Power in 2019 if you're just going to have it fail to accomplish anything?

Everyone and everything jobs to Kragnos. Half the book is just setting up other characters to fail to show how cool and awesome Kragnos is by comparison (please buy the model!!!). Then it seems like the writers couldn't figure out how to end the conflict so Kragnos is suddenly stupid enough to run through a portal because it has some drakes on the other side.

Belakor shows up in slaanesh's lair to taunt the newborns for about five minutes and then he just flies away. What?

[EccentricCircle]

Overall I really enjoyed it, and the broken realms saga as a whole. I think they did a good job of weaving a compelling narrative. Morathi was probably my favourite book, though I loved all the stuff with Lord Kroak, especially in Belakor which felt much more like his book than this one oddly enough. I think Teclis was maybe the weakest storyline, though the splash page showing the fate of the mortarchs was beautiful, and I hope we get more narrative art like that.

For this book, I agree that it felt a little disjointed. Kragnos was a cool character, but I think that introducing him here kind of stole Gordrakk's thunder, and made for a bit of an anticlimax. Most of the individual scenes he had were great, in fact that could be said for the story as a whole. But it didn't quite fit together as coherently as it could have done. I agree that it probably should have been two books, (though I'm not so sure about the conspiracy theory that it was meant to be.)

I would have liked the seraphon to do more in the story. Again all Kroaks scenes were great, but it didn't feel like they had the role in the story I would have liked after their showing in Belakor. I was waiting for an army of lizardmen riding carnosaurs to come over the hill Riders of Rohan style to break the siege of excelsis, and it never came.

I also agree that the chaos plot felt a bit tacked on and ended up a bit disjointed. I was really hoping that it was building to something more, and either

a) The leaders of Excelsis in their fear and desperation were going to turn to Chaos, and betray the Knights Excelsior. They could have instead embraced the twins, and summoned an army of daemonettes to defeat the orcs, with the witchhunters then caught in the middle and trying to stop the fall of their city. I mean, what is Chaos if not the seductive whisper that offers the easy way out of yoru problems, but at the cost of your soul?

or b) the slaaneshi cults would have overrun the city and enslaved it population, so that in an ironic twist of fate the great Waaagh! ended up liberating Excelsis from Chaos at least partially by accident, but maybe tying into the prophecy which Skagrott hoped to enact. It would have turned all our expectations on their head and ushered in a very different "age of destruction" to what we were all expecting.  world where the forces of Order can no longer ostracise the orcs, and treat them as wilderness barbarians, but actually have to work with them, causing even more conflict downt he line.

Either of those options would have been better than the two finales, which while awesome in their own right, didn't really mesh as a coherent narrative.

[Jator]

  I wonder if Gordrakk will try to fulfill the prophecy now, or maybe a different Boss would (a kruleboy one?). 
  The poor guy is not that interesting, and as others have said Kragnos stole what should have been his minute of glory, his "headbutt to Archaon", you know, that cool thing people could always remember about him. He keeps feeling like a generic warboss but bigger to me.

  Skragrot was the only character I really enjoyed reading about. Hopefully the kruleboyz will bring more "kunning" characters to destruction.

  Not sure about the role of Kragnos in this new edition. For now his function seems to be rallying (just by existing) the destruction forces, but if he got nagashed in the next "end of the edition campaign" before doing anything meaningful he will be remembered as the lowest effort ever made to sell  a big model. Hopefully he wil be more relevant than that.
  

Edited June 12, 2021 by Jator

[C0deb1ue]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:10 PM, Jator said:

  I wonder if Gordrakk will try to fulfill the prophecy now, or maybe a different Boss would (a kruleboy one?). 
  The poor guy is not that interesting, and as others have said Kragnos stole what should have been his minute of glory, his "headbutt to Archaon", you know, that cool thing people could always remember about him. He keeps feeling like a generic warboss but bigger to me.

  Skragrot was the only character I really enjoyed reading about. Hopefully the kruleboyz will bring more "kunning" characters to destruction.

  Not sure about the role of Kragnos in this new edition. For now his function seems to be rallying (just by existing) the destruction forces, but if he got nagashed in the next "end of the edition campaign" before doing anything meaningful he will be remembered as the lowest effort ever made to sell  a big model. Hopefully he wil be more relevant than that.
  

I'm still struggling to work out what the big link was between Kruleboyz and Kragnos... or if they have any real interaction apart from being part of trying to "sell a big model".

[JustAsPlanned]

2 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

I'm still struggling to work out what the big link was between Kruleboyz and Kragnos... or if they have any real interaction apart from being part of trying to "sell a big model".

Kraggy got thrown in a swamp

Kruleboyz live in a swamp

Kruleboyz see big angry horse man

They follow big angry horse man

Such is the way of life for Destruction factions.

[C0deb1ue]

9 minutes ago, JustAsPlanned said:

Kraggy got thrown in a swamp

Kruleboyz live in a swamp

Kruleboyz see big angry horse man

They follow big angry horse man

Such is the way of life for Destruction factions.

I mean... the logic is flawless. 

All praise Da HOrsz Boss!

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[EccentricCircle]

The Kruelboyz also have ancient cave paintings depicting the god who's return was prophesied, whom they call "the beast".
Kragnos looks a lot like this beast, and it may well be that the ancient paintings were of him in the first place. Thus the Kruelboyz believe that his being teleported into their swamp is a sign.

[PJetski]

I've heard that the Core Book says Morathi is responsible for driving away the Slaanesh twins, which is contrary to the events of Kragnos. If that's true, it is yet more proof that they cut a Broken Realms book and had to do rewrites on Kragnos at the last minute.

[MaatithoftheBrand]

I liked a lot of the lore we got in Kragnos, although I do agree with many of the posters here (though perhaps not quite with the same fervour, maybe) that there seems to have been a real difficulty in this book to balance the different storylines and how much pagetime and focus/impact each one got.

I think the Alarielle prologue/opening was very cool for a number of reasons. I liked seeing a conclusion to some of the plots and consequences started in the Realmgate Wars and the Season of War, and there were a lot of small touches (the Spirits of Durthu being useful/deeply involved in a ritual connected to the World-that-Was, due to their connection to it, etc) that I really liked to see. Also, and this is probably where people will disagree with me a little, I also liked that it wasn't hugely connected to the rest of the plot of BR: Kragnos - the Broken Realms books went strongly with the theme that the Aelven Pantheon is very much concerned with its own survival and strength, and that the Aelven Gods either do not feel the need to inform their allies or ask for aid from them in their plans, or even believe that their allies will agree that they are more expendable than the Aelves are when playing for the "greater good" (as we also saw in Morathis justification for claiming Anvilguard).

The ven Densts were pretty great point-of-view characters, particularly in the build-up to the Siege where they had more character moments rather than just having to run between skirmishes. They seemed to be a good example of when I personally find Warhammer fluff at its most engaging; when we OC see how ridiculous the whole thing is, but IC it is played straight and serious. 

I have... more mixed feelings on the Slaanesh subplot, and it does feel a little too removed from the other storybeats/at times feels a little too Tzeentchian/the 'victory' the Twins claim in the epilogue does not feel like it matches the story, but overall it is an okay B Plot for the book. It could have been fleshed out more, and I don't feel like B Plot is the place to introduce such huge characters as the Children of the Dark Prince to the setting, but it is not, to my mind, the biggest missed opportunity in the book.

To me, the biggest missed opportunity in Kragnos
Is Kragnos

When I first started reading through the book, I was really excited with where they seemed to be taking Kragnos. Whilst his methods and powers might be very straightforward, here was a more nuanced character than we generally see for Destruction:
-His companions that rode with him were war captains he genuinely trusted and whom he cared for as friends and comrades; indeed his motivation for much of his Drake hate is grief and vengeance over their deaths. This is a marked contrast to Orruks and Grots, who are famously untrustworthy and quick to betray and usurp each other, and even Ogors, who often end up eating their own children in leadership challenges. Gargants have a familial bond, but it is a simplistic and brutish thing. A loyal and emotionally sympathetic leader and deity seemed like a unique and interesting addition to Destruction.
-Whilst Kragnos is the God of Earthquakes and the End of Empires, and he clearly reveled in and celebrated the brutish and simple destruction he caused, unlike the other forces of Destruction who are generally only just in it for a good scrap, Kragnos was (at least in theory) ending empires and scattering tribal armies in the name of Donse. Now, it seems clear that this was more a justification to himself/others rather than a truly sanctioned mission (especially given he was exiled, or left, after the fight with his brother) but again, a character who fights for a true cause/the memory of a cause is another interesting angle on Destruction.
-We have a lot of characters in all the worlds of Warhammer that rage and fight as primal warriors/berserkers/etc, but even in the depths of his rage we saw a pragmatism and awareness in (some) of Kragnos' decisions; accepting the surrender of Derko Walrusbiter, holding himself in reserve with elements that can exploit his speed and openings (Goregrunta mobs), and the like. It would have been interesting to see more of that side of Kragnos - a brutal and destructive force of Destruction, but one still able to think about the situation and assess his choices and strategise, at least a little.

But then, instead of this side of Kragnos, the moment he's inside the city walls, he becomes another generic Destruction warboss and loses all of that nuance. The portal "trick" is believably one that I can see working on Kragnos - he is depicted as somewhat narrow in his focus throughout most of the book, and so an opportunity to bring low a seemingly resurgent Draconith empire would perhaps be irresistible to him.
However. The parting paragraph goes out of its way to have him issue a threat/postponed challenge to Morathi-Khaine and pointedly ignoring Lord Kroak. For a being who was painted as very aware of who his enemies were (he recognises a city of men despite technological advancement and the architecture being Azyrite not Ghurish tribal, he knew that the Seraphon and their Slann were servants of Dracothian, etc) it seems strange to me that he would not issue a challenge or even acknowledge Lord Kroak - an obvious (albeit a little bit dead) Slann, the same creatures who imprisoned him for Ages of the Realms, the same creatures who stole the deaths of the last Draconith from him, the same creatures who serve Dracothian himself and opposed him at the very height of his glory. Instead, he issues a challenge to a small Aelven woman, whose monstrous form he had already bested and whose magic could not harm him. Why?

TL;DR: I feel like Broken Realms: Kragnos had a lot of potential and a lot of good small moments, however it let itself down by spending page after page almost turning Kragnos from Big Earthquake Horseboss into a human and nuanced character unlike the other named figures in Destruction, only to then have him be a siege maguffin and then an idiot once the plot picked up speed.