Best loadout for Dracothian Guard

[Archibald]

Hey fellow Lords,

i am getting two boxes of Dracothian Guard and was wondering, what would be the best way to build them. I see a lot of love for Concussors here, so is this the way to go?

At the moment i am building a Starcast list, where these Concussors would fit in quite good.

What i don't really get, is why people are using Fulminators over Concussors in CoS Living City lists. I feel a lot of love for living city and am thinking about expanding it into a force. So i would like to know why Fulminators are the preferred option? Can Concussors perform well in a Living City army as well? Why play Fulminators only in CoS and not in a Starcast list? Tempestors look quite cool, but don't seem to get any games in? What are your opinions?

I hope you all stay save in the skies and drop down on the tables again soon when this pandemic is over.

Greetings

Archie

[baiardo]

Buy some magnets 😊 not jocking!

Concussor good in 1x2 or 2x2, "good" damage. 1unit could fill many list for 220pt.

Fulminators are pretty good for their resistence, take and hold objective. best at 1x4

Decimators good in big unit, best at 6+.

Tempestors...meh

 

I hope in some point reduction or even change min unit in3+ instead of 2.

[PJetski]

Theyre really easy to magnetize

[baiardo]

10 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Theyre really easy to magnetize

1,5 x1 or 1x1?

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, baiardo said:

1,5 x1 or 1x1?

I think theyre 2x1mm? Not sure, bought them a long time ago and I dont have any calipers handy

[Marcvs]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

I think theyre 2x1mm? Not sure, bought them a long time ago and I dont have any calipers handy

I did it with 2x1mm (and used spare decimators axes to have all the options)

Edited March 7, 2021 by Marcvs

[baiardo]

10 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I did it with 2x1mm (and used spare decimators axes to have all the options)

I used 1x1 for judicators and paladins but are too small for bigger arms(pally), bought them for 32mm minis and used for stormy..thx for showing your work!

[Archibald]

I don't see why you would choose Fulminators over Concussors. Dealing Mortal wounds and consistend Dmg 2 sounds better to me. Please change my mind, because i want to understand why Fulminators are always taken in Living City.

[PJetski]

42 minutes ago, Archibald said:

I don't see why you would choose Fulminators over Concussors. Dealing Mortal wounds and consistend Dmg 2 sounds better to me. Please change my mind, because i want to understand why Fulminators are always taken in Living City.

Natural 2+rr1 save against shooting is really good in a shooting meta

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, that increased save vs shooting plus the shield is pretty sweet.  I built a box of Dracoths as Fulminators recently.  I already had 2 Concussors.  Not sure about Cities, but with a Heraldor they could run and charge, and on the charge Fulminators are very high damage dealers.  4 does sound good for Fulminators; gotta try them out with my Stardrake general sometime soon, maybe Saturday, vs Clan Skryre.

My hope is the next Stormcast tome gives Dracoths some new life, and a battalion.  Like having them reroll charges or do more damage or increase their lightning vomit range, or a 5++ vs wounds and/or MW.  Something.

[jeanfluflu]

recently got into a game against lots of bloodthirsters and it went great on my side with a unit of 4 concussors.

My liste was:

Lord arcanum on gryph charger+staunch defender/celestial blades
Lord relictor+translocation
Lord castellant
15 sequitors
2x5 judicators
4 concussors

My enemy was playing:
3 bloodthirsters: reaper of vengeance+bloodthirster batallion
3x10 bloodreavers
2 priest with the axe
1 bloodsecrator

I think they did well and when you buff them with the castellant (when you're not using this on the sequitor for the sweet 2+ rerollable save) they can go on solo missions.
They killed 2 bloodthirsters on their own and got a charge on the characters killing the 2 priests and one unit of bloodreavers (almost 800 points just for these heroes!).

Maybe 2 units of 2 could work if you have good dices but even with 4 of them i had trouble rolling  one 6 to hit (to prevent enemy to pile in).
Also in this matchup i had to hit really hard before my opponent could retaliate so it wasn't an option to get two small units otherwise the first would hit (with big chances of not killing the unit) and the second would be killed with brutality.

The celestial blades works wonder on them and if you want to invest a bit of ressources into them (castellant buff, celestial blades or even relictor healing if you have opportunity) they can be really a pain for the enmy.

I tend to prefer dracoline though because they can buff themselves, have more damage output and are more stable due to the reroll (to wound and more importantly to charge).
Also since both units are labelled "big danger" your opponent will throw every big thing he has at his disposal and it often includes lots of mortal wounds Dracolines are a bit cheaper if you look at the point/wounds ratio i like this as well about them.

However they ranged attack is so fricking great, they did something like 14 to 17 mortal wounds on the bloodthirsters on 3 turns turns.
This attack is truly what makes them worth their prices i think and any help they can get on that could really boost their efficiency (thinking about astral templar both for move and +1 to shoot big things but also the tauralon who can give +1 to hit to enemy unit it flies over).

That's all for me, overall i love the big boys and i'll play them any chance i get!

Edited March 30, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[readercolin]

In case you haven't made the choice yet, or for someone else who comes along and is wondering the same thing:

The "best" choice is a set of magnets so that way you can swap which unit they are.  However, if you don't want to magnetize, or don't trust your skills when it comes to magnetizing, or for whatever other reason want to have just a single unit, then these are your considerations.

Concussors are probably the best if you are running Stormcast and want to bring a unit of 2-4 models down from the sky.  The prevent pile in effect, mortal wounds, and general decent damage is all pretty good.

Fulminators are probably the best if you are wanting to bring a unit of 2-4, keep the unit on the board, and have a heraldor to regularly get charges off.  The key things for Fulminators is that if they don't get the charge, they do less damage than Concussors.  However, if they do get the charge, they do a good bit more damage - specifically, a single model on the charge deals an average of 2 more damage than a concussor, while off the charge it deals an average of 2 less (numbers given vs a 4+ save).  Additionally, if they are sitting on the field, they are a bit tougher because they get a +1 to save against ranged damage.  If you are running a Living City list, they can come in from a board edge, "attack" with their ranged weapon, move 10", and nearly guarantee a charge.  The guaranteed charge means that a squad of 4 fulminators can be expected to go through a 30 wound unit with 4+ saves on average on the charge, while a squad of concussors can only be expected to go through a 20 wound unit.  In a more traditional stormcast list, fulminators inability to get in range and get repeated charges off means that they tend to be a little less reliable than concussors.

Then we get to Desolators.  Want to bring a squad of 4?  Concussors are better.  Want to bring a squad of 8?  Now desolators make sense.  Additionally, they are slightly cheaper than the other guys, so it isn't quite as backbreaking to bring a big unit.  To be honest though, the damage of large groups of desolators isn't a huge buff over concussors or fulminators, with the desolators doing an average of .5 more damage over concussors, so the real payoff here is that a squad of 8 of them costs 120 points less than a squad of 8 concussors/fulminators.

Finally, Tempestors.  I really struggle to come up with a time that you want to bring these.  Get them close to enemy ranged units and they give a -1 to hit bubble.  But otherwise they do as much damage as a squad of fulminators off the charge.  However, at 190 points per pair, they do at least come in cheaper than Fulminators/Concussors, so if you really want to run some Guard but are pinching the points, I guess they make sense.

[Archibald]

1 hour ago, readercolin said:

In case you haven't made the choice yet, or for someone else who comes along and is wondering the same thing:

The "best" choice is a set of magnets so that way you can swap which unit they are.  However, if you don't want to magnetize, or don't trust your skills when it comes to magnetizing, or for whatever other reason want to have just a single unit, then these are your considerations.

Concussors are probably the best if you are running Stormcast and want to bring a unit of 2-4 models down from the sky.  The prevent pile in effect, mortal wounds, and general decent damage is all pretty good.

Fulminators are probably the best if you are wanting to bring a unit of 2-4, keep the unit on the board, and have a heraldor to regularly get charges off.  The key things for Fulminators is that if they don't get the charge, they do less damage than Concussors.  However, if they do get the charge, they do a good bit more damage - specifically, a single model on the charge deals an average of 2 more damage than a concussor, while off the charge it deals an average of 2 less (numbers given vs a 4+ save).  Additionally, if they are sitting on the field, they are a bit tougher because they get a +1 to save against ranged damage.  If you are running a Living City list, they can come in from a board edge, "attack" with their ranged weapon, move 10", and nearly guarantee a charge.  The guaranteed charge means that a squad of 4 fulminators can be expected to go through a 30 wound unit with 4+ saves on average on the charge, while a squad of concussors can only be expected to go through a 20 wound unit.  In a more traditional stormcast list, fulminators inability to get in range and get repeated charges off means that they tend to be a little less reliable than concussors.

Then we get to Desolators.  Want to bring a squad of 4?  Concussors are better.  Want to bring a squad of 8?  Now desolators make sense.  Additionally, they are slightly cheaper than the other guys, so it isn't quite as backbreaking to bring a big unit.  To be honest though, the damage of large groups of desolators isn't a huge buff over concussors or fulminators, with the desolators doing an average of .5 more damage over concussors, so the real payoff here is that a squad of 8 of them costs 120 points less than a squad of 8 concussors/fulminators.

Finally, Tempestors.  I really struggle to come up with a time that you want to bring these.  Get them close to enemy ranged units and they give a -1 to hit bubble.  But otherwise they do as much damage as a squad of fulminators off the charge.  However, at 190 points per pair, they do at least come in cheaper than Fulminators/Concussors, so if you really want to run some Guard but are pinching the points, I guess they make sense.

Wow, thanks for the awesome reply mate!

I build mine as Concussors, because i am mostly facing Ironjaws these days. And the greenskins are charging most of the time, so 2dmg all the time is better than 3/1dmg (mostly 1dmg). Oh and if course no real shooting in sight, which makes the Fulminator bonus not really approachable.

[Lucur]

Desolators have the added advantage of wounds per points, they might decline in damage, but they can soak up more. Pure damage per points Concussors win, even against Fulminators on the charge (against 4+ that is, Fulminators are also tankier v shooting). It's actually nicely balanced for a change 😄

[Nizrah]

Except Tempestors which are totally useless  

[Lucur]

6 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Except Tempestors which are totally useless  

Tempestors aren't even a unit so i didn't consider them 🤭

[Lord Krungharr]

I played a 2K point game vs my friend's Gloomspite last Friday.  Knife to the Heart.  I'm a Stormcast noob and forgot to keep some guys in reserve to drop in behind his lines, though he probably would have just kept some Troggoths back to clobber them.  I tried to smash through with a Heraldor prodding 4 Fulminators but they kept suffering from an Itching Nuisance :P  This Living City idea is really neat.  Would be a good reason to get a Phoenix model too, but then I'll probably need some feeble humans.

Otherwise I think the Heraldo letting the Fulminators run and/or retreat and charge is solid.  Just gotta be choosy with targets.  That said, my Evocators on Dracolines x3 got whacked hard and easily by Boingrot Bounderz.  No MW save really stinks.  Chaos Warriors have shields to deal with that, wish our shields did that too!  That might be neat change to Stormcast, let subfactions sort of be distinct with their armor, seeing as how their armor is the most deluxe in the Mortal Realms.  Guess Evos don't have shield like that though anyways.

I haven't rolled a 6 to hit for my 2 Concussors in 3 games now.  Guess I need another 2.  Fishing for 6s isn't a great plan with small count eliteness.