Considering AOS, newbie questions about factions

[NeoSoul]

Hello!

I just turned 36 years old and collected many miniatures (D&D/Warmahordes) in the past but I haven't gotten into Wargaming yet.  I had bought a lot Hordes miniatures as I really liked some of the models, painted several of them, started reading some of the rules but I never actually played a game.  I now just moved and unfortunately for me, there doesn't seem to be a community for that game in the city where I now live.  I would have liked to play some Wargaming for real and I know Warhammer is the biggest one and easier to find people to play with (there are some Warhammer AOS nights in the city where I live).

 

All I know is that AOS is supposed to be friendlier to newbies than the other miniature game I mentioned.  I am familiar with the genre and many concepts but I don't know Warhammer table game that well still.  I only have played Warhammer Online (video game) when it came out many years ago so I have a vague idea of some of the races and I have played games like Warcraft/Starcraft which were heavily influenced by Warhammer and took some mechanics and ideas from it.  I'm also guessing that a good deal of the Warmahordes rules that I read were heavily influenced by Warhammer as well and probably similar on many aspects.

 

That being said, I'm possibly interested in getting into AOS and Wargaming.  I read quite a bit on the subject but I'm obviously a bit lost and overwhelmed for the moment.  Collecting and painting the miniatures is an aspect that I enjoy so I would like to go with one of the armies of which I like the aesthetics best.  Many of them look cool but I narrowed it down to 3 that I think are overall my very favorite for the moment (there are some specific models that I really love from other armies but I tried to go with the ones where I would like the look of many of the units) and my questions are based off of that.  Those 3 armies are Maggotkin of Nurgle, Slaves to Darkness and Ossiarch of Bones.

 

1- I'm a bit confused about the 4 factions and then the other armies within them (like Maggotkin of Nurgle and Slaves to Darkness both being within Chaos).  Does it mean that I have to play "Chaos" and then use a mix of whatever armies are within this faction or do you actually play a specific one (like Slaves to Darkness) and the Grand Alliance is more for the story?  I'm basically trying to understand if there are 4 different factions/armies or if there are 20+ of them.  If you get to mix them together and play per faction, I would then have to consider the models of the other armies within the same Faction (meaning that Maggotkins and Slaves being both in Chaos would maybe be more tempting to get).

 

2- What would be the main strengths and weaknesses of each of those 3 armies (a link to a site that talks about it can be useful if it's too long to answer)?  I'm guessing any of them is "viable" at a casual level of play?

 

3- I think that Ossiarch of Bones might be my favorite looking army overall (but the other 2 also have many models that I love).  However, it doesn't seem to have its own starter box the way the other 2 armies do (you have to get a Skeletal Horde box that I don't like much aside from Arkhan in there).  I guess that this means getting started with Ossiarch of Bones would be more expensive?  This is part of what confuses me because it seems like this one box set is made to start up with any Death faction?  Could I skip the starter box in this case and if so, what units should I get first (I know it would sound dumb but I just really like all of the Ossiarch models aside from that box while I love the models in the starter box from the other 2 armies and about half of their other models)?

 

4- Why are there so many Order factions while Destruction only has 3?  I thought that Orcs and goblins were together under the "Green Skin" banner but I'm guessing AOS might have changed many things like this from when I was younger?

 

5- Any idea on what armies are generally considered "weak", "strong" and "newbie friendly"?

 

I'm sure I could find some of those answers by reading through more Warhammer AOS guides or watching videos but I'd like to figure these out fast so that I can make up my mind on an army before looking further into it (it's always a hard part for me when getting into a new game).

[michu]

1 - Grand Alliances (such as Chaos or Order) are just here so you can take whatever miniature from that particular GA and make an army out of it. So basically there are 20+ factions but you can play in 4 factions mode. But using an army made out only from 1 battletome (like Nurgle only, not Chaos GA) is better for competitive play because GA allegiance abilities are worse (but good for beginners).

2 -Anything is viable but Ossiarch are the best of all three and even after nerf some people can still don't like playing against them. I think Slaves to Darkness are the best for casual vs casual games. Just not that much competitive. Basically it goes like that Slaves< Nurgle<Ossiarch.

3 - Ossiarch are a new army. New armies don't get starter collecting sets, you have to wait a bit. Maybe this year they will get a batttleforce (bigger box with more models than start collecting set). For now, yes they are the most expensive to collect.

4 - Order is bigger because it groups together humans, lizardmen (now Seraphon), dwarfs (now Duardin, 3 kinds of Duardin), elves (now Aelves, 4 kinds of them, old distinction of High, Dark and Wood mostly does not exist anymore), Sylvaneth (old treefolk part of wood elves) and Stormcast. Oh, and they are the main "protagonists" (not always) of the game. Greenskinz are different now - we have two kind of orcs (Orrucs now): big armoured Ironjawz and primal Bonesplitterz (but they have one book), night and forest goblins (Moonclan and Spiderfang Grots now) are now together with trolls (Troggoths). Ogors were at first separated into multiple small factions but are now combinded again. And we're going to get new giant (Gargant) army soon. But sad news - regular orcs and goblins are no more.
5 - That's for more experienced people to answer.

[Jymmy]

1. The grand alliance separation is important when considering allies too. You can take a small part of your army from another faction as long as it is from the same grand alliance (and from a faction allowed by your battletome). In the case of Chaos any God Army (Maggotkin, Bloodbound, etc) can take most of the Slaves To Darkness units.

2. Ossiarchs are mainly defensive, very though and with fantastic artillery but tend to be slow and static (Which can make harder the objective play).  They have ways to revive infantry non stop to maximise the staying power (and the nuisance)

Slaves are more offensive, can field more bodies and is more mobile(bad thing is that their best unit is the marauder and the miniature is ancient and starving for a renovation, the other con is that the Chaos Warrior is underwhelming). They also have some punchy heroes.
 

Maggotkin is resistant, but it needs to be offensive and tends to be slow, so you have to play smart to maximise speed and get where you want to be. They can summon (the other two factions can’t)
 

 

5. My understanding is that Ossiarchs are the most competitive of the three (and the easiest to control). Slaves can compete nicely, but is harder to pilot (lot of sinergies) and Maggotkin is struggling a bit because their battletome is old at this point.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Jymmy

[Overread]

1) Each army has its own Battletome. This battletome contains that army's full rules and statistics and abilities. If you head to the GW website then each army is also listed under its respective grand alliance; those models in each army tab are the units that make up that army and are detailed in the battletome. So when you collect Maggotkin you are limited to those models in the tab on the GW store/the Battletome for Maggotkin.

However each army is also part of a Grand Alliance, which is a loose collection of factions that share the same broad ideals and might also share alliances. Alliances are detailed in battletomes (last page with the unit point costs) and vary a lot. Some armies, like Ossiarch Bonereapers, cannot take any allies. Meanwhile armies like Maggotkin can take several allies from within the Chaos Grand Alliance. 

Finally you can build a "Grand Alliance Army" which have old books (they've not been updated in ages) where you can take units from ANY faction within a single Grand Alliance for form an army. This sounds somewhat broken balance wise, but the way the books are right now "pure" armies have an edge since they get army wide bonuses and the like. 

So yes if you wanted you could take some Maggotkin in a Slaves to Darkness army. Note that allies are limited to 1/4 in points and model count. So you can't take a vast number, but you can certainly add them in for flavour. 

2) Any of them are viable - in fact the whole game is now running on viable 2.0 battletomes. It's a fantastic time to get involved.
That said I can say that Ossiarch Bonereapers are an elite style army that moves a bit slower than most other armies, but has very tough units that are hard to kill and can deal out good damage. So they are a bit like an unstoppable wave. Of course being a bit slower they might start to "lose" early on as they might not secure objectives as fast; the difference is that with a good plan they will push opponents off objectives and make up in the latter part of the game. 

Ossiarchs are new so they don't have as many units to pick from - Slaves to Darkness meanwhile have a vast number of models which gives them quite a wide variety in how they can be used; depending on how you build the army. You can go for swarms of the lesser units and overwhelm and opponent with numbers; or focus on heavier hitting elite style forces with Chaos Knights and Warriors. 

3) Starters sets do make getting started a bit cheaper; however Ossiarchs are elite and quite affordable. The Mortek Guard come in boxes of 20 which is a very generous number considering their points. Back them up with a harvester and a leader or two and such and you've got a good base for an army. 
The Skeletal Horde boxed set is about the best way to get Arkhan (or any of those models made by that kit) since its basically giving you free skeletal warriors and riders you can build and paint and mess around with. 

4) That's just the luck of how things have turned out. Heck back before AoS when the game was Old World, the four different Chaos Gods were in one army (demons) instead of each having their own army. You can really tell this when you look at how, for example, very few ranged units there are because originally you'd be taken Skull Cannon in a combined army to make up for ranged attacks. Meanwhile forces like Slaanesh have very few models to their name since they are later in the update of the model line compared to armies like Khorne. 

[Deadkitten]

The above is all pretty good.  The only thing I would add would be to jump into each of the faction specific threads.  Scroll through them a couple pages or just post and say you're a new player considering the faction.  Ask about playstyle and strengths/weakness.  The players are very helpful and accommodating.  It isn't uncommon for an advanced player to pop in, say they are looking at them as a new army and ask about the current state of things.  Finally, my biggest piece of advice is to pick a faction with models you want to paint.

[Beastmaster]

I think the Warscroll Builder, combined with the AoS warscroll app is the easiest way to get a feel for the possible armies you can build. And it’s all for free. 😊

[NeoSoul]

Thank you very much for all of the replies!

I think I'm leaning more towards Ossiarch because I love all of their models (Nurgle I don't like the demons as much but the other ones I love and Slaves to Darkness I love the chaos knights, some demons, the large flying beast and some of the other humans look really cool but several other models look old and not as appealing visually).  It's just too bad that Ossiarch don't have a starter box yet and no super cool large beast like the flying one the Chaos Knight is on, the Nurgle, the dinosaurs from the Seraphon or the drake(?) from the Ironjaws but you can't have it all : P

 

I'll look into the faction forums as suggested.  Just one thing I forgot to ask is if things change a lot with different updates every couple of months or years.  For example, the site that I read through that was explaining the game and factions was saying that Seraphon was the only army that wasn't safe to buy because of no recent update and that their models were old but then I read on other groups that they're one of the strongest at the moment.  I'll go with what I like best visually for a first army and I'll try to make it work, I just wonder if it would be likely (for example) for Slaves to Darkness to go from low tier competitive to mid/high tier with an update and then Ossiarch getting nerfed hard or if the changes aren't that drastic normally.

 

Basically, I'm just wondering what GW's approach to try to balance the different armies is.  I know video games aren't exactly the same but to make a comparison still, some companies tend to heavily nerf the top contenders, others will try to mostly buff up the underdog ones and then you have others that do both at the same time.

[Neverchosen]

Welcome Neosoul.

I have noticed that a number of your questions have been answered already so I thought I would jump in and mention some of my own experiences in re-entering the hobby. Overall, I have found the community really open and welcoming which is a relief as I am a fairly shy and unassuming person. Do not freak out about playing 2000 point battles right away, as smaller battles will let you focus on the rules and slowly building your army. Also, Warcry is a really fun and rewarding game system with a much lower cost of entry. I think watching Battle Reports on youtube can really help you learn the rules and discover more about the different play styles of different armies.

I think that the three armies you chose are all fantastic options and fit the rule of cool.

I play Slaves to Darkness and it is a very straight forward army that also allows you to build up and move into other chaos factions as their models are useable by most other chaos armies. So you can add your chaos warriors and knights into a Maggotkin of Nurgle army without relying on Grand Alliance Chaos. I feel like Slaves to Darkness is also a good bet just in case any of the other God specific factions grow on you through exposure to playstyle and lore. I am constantly debating which direction to move my Slaves to Darkness as I want to eventually expand them into a specific God focused army. (Slaanesh is my favourite but it is also sadly one of the most problematic armies, which is making me lean towards Tzeentch or Nurgle).

Maggotkin on their own are a fantastic range with really cool rules. They are very durable and fairly straightforward in terms of playstyle. I think that they are also cool as they allow you to include Skaven, Beasts of Chaos and Slaves to Darkness models to varying degrees without breaking your allegiance. In this regard I feel they are the most holistic of the god specific factions. 

Ossiarchs are really cool and have amazing rules, but their rules seem a little more idiosyncratic and may have a slightly higher learning curve. Do not let this dissuade you from the army as they are competitively very strong and have an amazing model range. They will eventually get a start collecting set, but as they are a relatively new army it may take a little time. Some of their models are useable in Legions of Nagash without breaking allegiances, but it is not as open an exchange as between Slaves to Darkness and Maggotkin of Nurgle.

Also in terms of cost of entry: Start Collecting sets are all very good value and for some armies just buying start collecting sets is enough to get you a fast and inexpensive playable army.  Every year they release Battleforces which tend to be the best value for your collection but they only release a limited number of battleforces and for only a handful of armies (typically 4). There are also lots of places that trade and sell armies second hand that will save you some money, but often require more work if you are interested in the hobby side and making sure that the army is personalized. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Neverchosen

[Deadkitten]

35 minutes ago, NeoSoul said:

Basically, I'm just wondering what GW's approach to try to balance the different armies is.  I know video games aren't exactly the same but to make a comparison still, some companies tend to heavily nerf the top contenders, others will try to mostly buff up the underdog ones and then you have others that do both at the same time.

That's  a bit of a loaded question and you're going to get answers that run across a wide range.  I think GW would say they attempt to balance out their games.  I think the vast majority of the community would agree they're better than they were.  There's been some indication that they receptive to feedback.

Beyond that there will be vastly different ideas about how much they do, how successful they are and various motives for doing what they do.  They is a an expected schedule for updates and following them is sort of a thing.

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, NeoSoul said:

Basically, I'm just wondering what GW's approach to try to balance the different armies is.  I know video games aren't exactly the same but to make a comparison still, some companies tend to heavily nerf the top contenders, others will try to mostly buff up the underdog ones and then you have others that do both at the same time.

I somehow missed this post before posting my response.

Games Workshop's typical approach to updates works through editions and army's individual battletomes. We are currently in the second edition of Age of Sigmar and all of the armies have updated battletomes. When Games Workshop creates a new edition it will usually go through the various armies and eventually update the individual battletomes. They also will look at the units point costs and update them to help counteract the inevitable powercreep that occurs through the lifespan of an edition. In cases of poor wording or broken mechanics they will create an errata to help better balance the battletomes. These point updates and erratas are published online for free. There are also additional books like the annually published Generals Handbook and various campaign books that may include additional rules and updates but typically function more as supplements as opposed to replacements.  

The nice thing about AOS is that the core rules, warscrolls/unit profiles, and the points for every unit are uploaded online. Although, owning the battletome will give you rules for your specific faction and some other key mechanics like magical items and battalions and is an irreplaceable resource; it is still possible to play some basic games just using the core rules and provided warscrolls. 

Regarding the lack of centrepiece for Ossiarchs: Mortek Crawlers, Katakros and Gothizzar Harvesters are all very impressive looking on the tabletop.

Also it is possible to play a pure Mortal Nurgle army (although some demons for summoning are always handy), and to play Slaves to Darkness without using the older less appealing models (I assume you are talking about the old Marauders). 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Neverchosen

[Greyshadow]

21 hours ago, NeoSoul said:

 I would like to go with one of the armies of which I like the aesthetics best. 

Hi @NeoSoul, welcome to the community! That is spot on 100% exactly what you should do. Very astute of you to identify straight up the best reason to choose an army.