AoS 2 - Legion of the First Prince Discussion (Belakor)

[Tizianolol]

Guys can we play verminolord corruptor as normal hero?

[Bibob45]

3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys can we play verminolord corruptor as normal hero?

Sadly with the latest Broken Realms BeLakor errata, you can't use Skaven units with Legion of the First Prince.

 

"Instead, if you choose this faction, Be’lakor and units with the Daemon keyword in Battletome: Blades of Khorne, Battletome: 
Disciples of Tzeentch, Battletome: Maggotkin of Nurgle, Battletome: Hedonites of Slaanesh and Battletome: Slaves to Darkness, excluding units with the Everchosen keyword, can be part of your army."

[Scarband]

Please advise. Belacor rule, at 4+ put the wound to one of the warcrolls.

In my local meta they say this is a ward, since any rolls after saves to negate a wound is a ward. What arguments can I use here?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Scarband

[Hannibal]

1 hour ago, Scarband said:

Please advise. Belacor rule, at 4+ put the wound to one of the warcrolls.

In my local meta they say this is a ward, since any rolls after saves to negate a wound is a ward. What arguments can I use here?

None.

 

Have a look at the recent FAQ for core rules, second last page, right column, near the bottom: every roll that prevents a wound is a ward and only one ward can be rolled per caused wound.

[Scarband]

1 hour ago, Hannibal said:

None.

 

Have a look at the recent FAQ for core rules, second last page, right column, near the bottom: every roll that prevents a wound is a ward and only one ward can be rolled per caused wound.

So no wards after 4+ roll?

[Gristlegut]

1 hour ago, Scarband said:

So no wards after 4+ roll?

Hold on folks. Be'lakor's ability is activated before a wound or mortal wound is allocated. This is clearly stated in the First-Damned Prince section that states the following:

'In addition, before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to Be'lakor, pick one friendly unit with 9" of him and roll a dice:.......On a 4+, that wound or mortal wound is allocated to that unit instead.'

The key wording here is before you allocate a wound....

14.3 in the FAQ states the following:

14.3 WARDS

Q: If a player makes a successful dice roll to negate a wound or mortal wound, and this triggers an effect that forces a wound or mortal wound to be allocated to a different unit (as per, for example, ‘Sworn Protectors’ in Battletome: Fyreslayers or ‘The Armour of Morkar’ in Battletome: Slaves to Darkness), can an attempt be made to negate that additional wound or mortal wound if an effect would allow a player to do so? A: No. Wounds and mortal wounds allocated in this way cannot be negated.

In the case of FDP, the roll is done before a wound/mw is allocated. The FAQ is referring to '..a successful dice roll to negate a wound or mortal wound..." This means that FDP activates prior to wound allocation. For example, Be'lakor fails two saves. Before allocating these wounds you roll a dice. If it is 4+ that wound is allocated to the friendly demon unit. If it is not a 4+ then the wound is allocated to Be'lakor. In both cases (Be'lakor and the friendly unit) are able to roll wards against this allocated wound.

Q: Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to attempt to negate a wound or mortal wound, but that roll may have a different effect depending on the score of the dice (as per, for example, the ‘Soul-forged Guardians’ ability on the Praetors warscroll). Are these abilities wards, and is the roll a ward roll? A: Yes

For this question the FDP ability is still defensible. The FDP ability roll takes place before a dice is rolled to negate a wound or mortal wound.

I understand the confusion since it's not well known. The FDP ability is not at all common and is very different than other body guard abilities that are referenced in the FAQ. 

 

 

[Scarband]

32 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:

For this question the FDP ability is still defensible. The FDP ability roll takes place before a dice is rolled to negate a wound or mortal wound.

What's the difference between ability "roll before a wound or mortal wound allocated" and wards description?

 

14.3 WARDS
Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a 
wound before it is allocated to a model. Abilities of 
this type are referred to as wards, and the dice roll 
is referred to as a ward roll. Up to 1 ward roll can be 
made for each wound or mortal wound before it is 
allocated to the model in question. If the ward roll is 
successful, the wound or mortal wound is negated and 
has no effect on the model.

[Gristlegut]

2 hours ago, Scarband said:

What's the difference between ability "roll before a wound or mortal wound allocated" and wards description?

 

14.3 WARDS
Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a 
wound before it is allocated to a model. Abilities of 
this type are referred to as wards, and the dice roll 
is referred to as a ward roll. Up to 1 ward roll can be 
made for each wound or mortal wound before it is 
allocated to the model in question. If the ward roll is 
successful, the wound or mortal wound is negated and 
has no effect on the model.

The way I am reading this is that in order to negate a wound it must be allocated to the model. I don't believe you can negate a wound that hasn't been allocated yet. I also believe the FDP is moving the wound, before allocation, to the friendly demon unit, it is not negated.  The way I am reading FDP indicates that the die roll takes place before allocation. The dice determines who the wound is allocated too. Once the wound is allocated to either the demon unit or Be'lakor, then it can be negated. 

 

[Gristlegut]

1 hour ago, Gristlegut said:

The way I am reading this is that in order to negate a wound it must be allocated to the model. I don't believe you can negate a wound that hasn't been allocated yet. I also believe the FDP is moving the wound, before allocation, to the friendly demon unit, it is not negated.  The way I am reading FDP indicates that the die roll takes place before allocation. The dice determines who the wound is allocated too. Once the wound is allocated to either the demon unit or Be'lakor, then it can be negated. 

 

I am going to correct myself on this discussion. Not on Be'lakor's 4+ FDP then 6+ ward. I am reading the FAQ in 14.3 that the unit that receives the wound (PB or Pinks for example) cannot ward it off. 

can an attempt be made to negate that additional wound or mortal wound if an effect would allow a player to do so?

A: No. Wounds and mortal wounds allocated in this way cannot be negated.

[Cuadrao]

this is like the praetors "Soul-forged Guardians" ability...

At the start of the first battle round, before determining who has the first turn, you can pick 1 friendly STORMCAST ETERNALS HERO on the battlefield to which this unit will be bound. Roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortalwound to that HERO while it is within 3" of this unit.

On a 1-2, that wound or mortal wound is allocated to that HERO as normal. On a 3-4, that wound or mortal wound is allocated to this unit instead of that HERO. On a 5-6, that wound or mortal wound is negated.

and in the latest faq it says that its considered a ward save.

Q: Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to attempt to negate a wound or mortal wound, but that roll may have a different effect depending on the score of the dice (as per, for example, the ‘Soul-forged Guardians’ ability on the Praetors warscroll). Are these abilities wards, and is the roll a ward roll?

A: Yes.

[Scarband]

2 hours ago, Cuadrao said:

and in the latest faq it says that its considered a ward save.

This rule have negated word and wording of a ward mechanic on 5-6.

Belakor rule is only reallocation. But yes, after reallocation is no wards.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Scarband

[Holy_Diver]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:23 PM, VonSmall said:

Last weekend we attened the London GT Bloodtithe Team Tournament - here's a little write up!

As a bit of background, Bloodtithe was a 32 team (128 player) AoS 3.0 event held in London. There were no list restrictions other than no duplicate Warscrolls, Triumphs or Grand Strategies within the team. List wise it was a total filth fest with nearly half of all the armies being taken belonging to 5 factions (15 SoB, 12 DoK, 11 Seraphon, 11 LRL & 10 SBGL) with an average drop count of 4.5 drops per army.

Scoring for the event was capped at 70-20 and used the following system:

 

We went as 4 old friends more for the social side than with any hopes of doing well. We took none of the top 5 most represented armies. Our OBR and Sylvaneth player are both very new to the game and have essentially been playing for a month before we started. As a reasonably competitive player I was still aiming for 2 round wins as I felt we had it in us. The lists we ran were:

 

ROUND 1 – FIRST BLOOD

Vs Leodis Legion

PAIRINGS& RESULTS (Our lists first):

OBR Vs Ogors (Result: 2 – 20 LOSS)

Ogors Vs SoB  (Result: 20 – 2 WIN)

Sylvaneth Vs LOFP (Result: 2 – 20 LOSS)

LOFP Vs DoK (Result: 20 – 2 WIN)

OVERALL RESULT: 44 – 44 DRAW (!)

Summary: Brilliant first round against 4 top guys meant we started the event off with a confidence building draw for the team. Highlight for me was using the bridge to teleport a unit of horrors from one corner of the board to the opposite to steal an objective.

 

ROUND 2 – VEINS OF GHUR

Vs Team Fact

PAIRINGS& RESULTS (Our lists first):

OBR Vs Tzeentch (Result: 3 – 20 LOSS)

Ogors Vs CoS  (Result: 2 – 20 LOSS)

Sylvaneth Vs IJ (Result: 4 – 20 LOSS)

LOFP Vs SBGL (Result: 20 – 2 WIN)

OVERALL RESULT: 29 – 62 LOSS

Summary: A tough round against a really solid team. Sadly, we bussed our OBR into the Tzeentch Archaon as we had other players who auto lost against it. I learnt after the round that their SBGL was bussed into me (though I think it was actually an ok matchup for them). Irondrakes were just too much for the stonehorns and our Sylvaneth player lost by a single VP in the end. Lots of lessons learnt and onto round 3!

ROUND 3 – POWER IN NUMBERS

Vs C U Next Tournament

PAIRINGS& RESULTS (Our lists first):

OBR Vs Seraphon (Result: 2 – 20 LOSS)

Ogors Vs FEC  (Result: 20 – 4 WIN)

Sylvaneth Vs Nurgle (Result: 20 – 0 WIN)

LOFP Vs SCE (Result: 20 – 1 WIN)

OVERALL RESULT: 62 – 25 WIN

Summary: The C U Next Tournament team were brilliant (and the eventual winners of the Best Sports Prize). Three of the games were played in a friendly, chilled out way with lots of drinking. The fourth game was played in the loosest sense of the word as their player, having consumed every cocktail on the menu at the bar the night before and then continuing throughout the day, fell asleep at the table before going to the toilet and failing to get back to the table, instead passing out on the sofa. Our guy hadn’t realised he fell asleep as the opponent was wearing sunglasses(!) and the next day told how he had closed his eyes only to open them again to see loads of forests on the board. So, we ended 1 on WIN/DRAW/LOSS

ROUND 4 – SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST

Vs Amherst Defenders

PAIRINGS& RESULTS (Our lists first):

OBR Vs SBGL (Result: 3 – 20 LOSS)

Ogors Vs FEC (Result: 20 – 4 WIN)

Sylvaneth Vs Ogors (Result: 20 – 1 WIN)

LOFP Vs DoK (Result: 20 – 4 WIN)

OVERALL RESULT: 63 – 29 WIN

Summary: Another great round against some tough opponents. The matchups went really well for us and we very nearly got 4 wins. Highlight/lowlight of the round had to be Allarielle putting 2 stonehorns into her dagger and me failing to summon any daemons (to be fair I forgot the first turn!) At this stage we had exceeded our pre-tournament goal and were sat on 2 Wins, 1 Draw and 1 Loss. Surely we couldn’t win the last round too?!

 

ROUND 5 – FERAL FORAY

Vs Angel

PAIRINGS& RESULTS (Our lists first):

OBR Vs STD (Result: 4 – 20 LOSS)

Ogors Vs LOFP (Result: 20 – 3 WIN)

Sylvaneth Vs Ogors (Result: 20 – 0 WIN)

LOFP Vs SoB (Result: 20 – 4 WIN)

OVERALL RESULT: 64 – 27 WIN

Summary: So, the final round was against the Angel boys, a very competent team with some tough lists to face. Again, we felt the pairings went really well for us with only 2 stonehorns for Allarielle to crunch through, 4 stonehorns going into LOFP with re-roll charge command ability, control from me Vs SoB and a brick wall of bodies vs 3 units of Varanguard and Archaon. In the end we once again could have nearly scored 4 wins if not for a priority roll in the OBR Vs STD game.

OVERAL SUMMARY

We had done it though; losing only 1 round the whole event and were over the moon considering what we had taken and the experience level we were up against. Overall, we finished 5th and a single TP behind 4th. I can’t speak highly enough about my team mates who all played out of their socks to grind our wins over near losses. All in, we gained 22 TPs from loss bonus points which turned out to be huge.

From a personal perspective I was pleased with my play, facing off against the big hitters of SoB and DoK and coming out with 5 wins. I’m calling it now that the Soulscream Bridge finds its way into a lot more lists very soon. It was absolutely amazing and directly helped me win 3 of my games.

Team SYM will definitely be back next year.

 

Cool! Can I ask you something? Have you ever found difficulty in scoring secondaries that ask you to destroy untits with that list? If someone asks to me,I'll answer yes, cause a play the same list, but I play Sylleske other than the Epitome.

I'm curious to read some brainstorms about it, all the people here are called to do it 😃

Edited October 16, 2021 by Holy_Diver

[Tizianolol]

Guys flaming weapon on epitome means at 5+ to hit d3mw +1? 

[Bibob45]

29 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys flaming weapon on epitome means at 5+ to hit d3mw +1? 

Flaming weapon add 1 to the damage characteristic of the weapon. When using Fourfold blade, the 5+ unmodified hit roll triggers D3 MW, but that doesn't look at the damage characteristic of the weapon. So flaming weapon is only useful for the attacks that hit under 5+.

[Tizianolol]

Guys I think you spoke about that in this discussion, but after faq i was sure i cannot use belakor ward save if I try to allocate wound or mortal wound on my pinks , becasue as faq it counts as a ward save. Some people in my store says belakor can still use his ward after that. What is the correct interpretation?

[Russ]

I watched a battle report between Ritchie (Justplay) and Toby Meadows. In that, Toby stated that you get the 4+ reallocation and then get the 6+ Ward Save.

 

I am inclined to go with this at the moment as Toby and Ritchie are both high level players and even if they do not play test, they rub shoulders woth play testers

[Rakkzul]

Guys, what do we think about using some Flesh Hounds for battleline? Theyre pretty cheap, eventho we pay more points-per-wound vs the pink horrors

[Russ]

Very useful. They have good movement to keep up with Be’lakor/Bloodthirster/ Epitome and act as a shield. They are also good for objective snatchers and they are an extra Unbind.

[Tizianolol]

Guys a unit under belokor abilty cant use command ability on 3+, but can that unit receve it? Thx a lot

[Hannibal]

Hi,

 

warscroll builder tells me that Blissbarb Archers are part of the Legion of the Forst Prince. Is that right? Do they have the Demon keyword? Can´t really believe that...

[Xasz]

They do not.

[Scarband]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:47 PM, Hannibal said:

Hi,

 

warscroll builder tells me that Blissbarb Archers are part of the Legion of the Forst Prince. Is that right? Do they have the Demon keyword? Can´t really believe that...

Look for Daemon keyword

[Requizen]

So I've got a cobbled together amount of Daemons and picked up Be'lakor to lead them. I see that most lists are running Kairos in this list as well, is there a particular reason other than him just being very point efficient? Can you compete with LotFP without him? 

[hurben]

Just now, Requizen said:

So I've got a cobbled together amount of Daemons and picked up Be'lakor to lead them. I see that most lists are running Kairos in this list as well, is there a particular reason other than him just being very point efficient? Can you compete with LotFP without him? 

To my mind Kairos is auto include. I've done Top 20 in french solo cup with a LFP and he definitely made a lot of game. 
God mode in magic, the chaos spawn after a successfull Gift of Change is really good, he changes a dice one time per battle but it can be an absolute game breaker (miss a battle tactic for your opponent on a charge or something).
 

[Doomham]

with the new Maggotkin adding new demons as possibilities i got a rules question:

Can the new Great Unclean One use the Fourfold Blade artifact for his Host of Nurglings attacks or do these not qualify as a melee weapon?

The GUO warscroll refers to that he is "armed with Noxious Bile, a Host of Nurglings and 1 of the following weapon options: [...]"

The Fourfold Blade description says "Pick 1 of the bearer´s melee weapons [...]"