Warcry - Beasts of chaos discussion

[girafarig]

arrowboyz are more expensive by 20 points, maybe thats why.

Edited February 2, 2020 by girafarig

[Myrdin]

Allright, gonna have a test game tomorrow. Most likely against Flesh Eaters, so I`ll be bringing more beef to the fight then I would against a native Warcry warband.

Dual Axe Mino Leader

2x Ungor Archers

4x Dual weapon Gors

2x DragOgs with war glaives.

9 units on the table, at 995/1000 pts 

Due to FEC warbands usually running with at least 2-3 of the flying ones, and then bunch of ghouls I need something that can survive a first turn quad alfa strike. Seen a FEC player doing this and 1st turn taking down Iron Golem Leader and one of the small guys standing next to him, so a Mino leader with 35W to chew through should survive such an onslaught and hit VERY hard in return, since he wont need to move and can go to town with his 10/12 (if universal double) attacks on the Batboy.

Will let you know how the list fared afterwards.

Deployment:

Shield: Mino, 1 archer 1 Gor / Hammer: 1 DragO 1 archer 1 Gor / Knife: 1 Drago 2 Gors

Gives me one meatshield for each, and an early ranged unit on the table while each of these contains one big punchy boy as well. Not sure if Ungors T4 8W are better for tanking than 10W Gors in general. But against FEC I think T4 is the same as T3 since most of their stuff is S4/5 anyway, so hitting on 3+ most of the time.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Myrdin

[Kramig]

I think I will try this list:

Shaman 165
Bullgor hero245
2 ungor rider 140
2 ungor Spear 140
2 bestigor 230
1 gor with shield 65

[Fluffy Moo Moo]

Ok I feel like this is going to be a really dumb question but I have to ask - I bought the cards for Beasts of Chaos (because I own a ****** herd of em - it would be fun as hell to use em)...

 

Where are you guys finding the rules for a Bray Shaman?

[Kramig]

In the monster and mercenary book

[Maddpainting]

After doing some research for fun with this > 

Honestly the DO's are so close together than the Paired weapons and the Great Glaive are both fully viable to each other, 1 will give slightly more DPS but the Great Glaive is 2" which is really nice. I think i'm going to be taking the Glaive for now on.

[Myrdin]

9 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

After doing some research for fun with this > 

Honestly the DO's are so close together than the Paired weapons and the Great Glaive are both fully viable to each other, 1 will give slightly more DPS but the Great Glaive is 2" which is really nice. I think i'm going to be taking the Glaive for now on.

Once you had a taste of 2" weaponry you`re rarely go back to 1" if you have the option not to  

Its the only redeeming quality the DoK Snake girls have, and even that keeps them barely usable (but thats a DoK balance issue). Even my Corvus Cabalites with spears, did surprise me how effective those ...essentially "pseudo battleline" units (you dont have to take them though, but with almost every warband you will want to take these cheaper base tier units anyway thats why pseudo battleline) can be if they have someone to tank for them.

So for me the DragOg with glaives are extremely solid option since we have a lot of fast cheap chaff to keep them shielded. And even if something breaks through, T4 30W is not something you can chew through in one sitting.

Now with that said, I would NEVER EVER EVER play the Spear Ungors. Cabalites have 4A each, 1/4dmg., and with that the chance for crit is very high, especially with the range you usually dont need to move once set into position, until the target or your tank are dead.

Spear Ungors on the other hand are paying extra for that shield and dont have near enough dmg output to make us of the spear. Your spearmen are there to contribute damage not tank, so the Spearungs are never worth the investment. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Myrdin

[Maddpainting]

Yeah, Spear Ungors IMO are not very good, especially when i can get a Gor lol

[girafarig]

are spears for ungors even needed? i think their main use is to occupy enemies so they most of the time go in for 1 inch anyway to keep the enemy from disengaging and the t4 shield helps them to wither enemy shooters. its more or less the question of shield(un)gor or dual gor and then if or not ungor raiders.

 

[Myrdin]

25 minutes ago, girafarig said:

are spears for ungors even needed? 

 

In Warcry absolutely.... not.

If you really need T4 take the cheaper ones with hand weapons, or go for Gors with shields, who make up for decent tanks with 10W. 

 

While I think the dual weapon Gors are better due to the cheap price, I can see situation where having some Shield Gors instead would make for an appealing choice.

Cheapest Leader possible 3 DragO with glaives and then 6 shield gors with extra  25pts > meaning you can upgrade to Ungor Archer leader with 15pts left and 10 models on the field. Other than your leader everything is T4, Wound pool 16-10-30. Surprisingly tough when put against S3/4 with decent speed of 5 and 6. I.... I think I wanna try this out actually  

Edited February 7, 2020 by Myrdin

[girafarig]

dual gors have the advantage they maybe get more attention by the enemy than they need due to their more attacks and lower defenses which seem tempting to get target over other more important stuff in melee

 

minotaurs loadout, which is statwise better? any maths already done? i think the 2h axes seem pretty good per hit but then the dual weapons are much more attacks...

Edited February 7, 2020 by girafarig

[Maddpainting]

Just by looking at the stats its mostly clear that the leaders are better and the Great Axe non leader is by far the worst, with 2 attacks its rally bad. But what surprised me was the Great weapon Leader is actually better than the Paired weapons Bullgors. But not as good as the paired leader.

 

[Baron Wastelands]

6 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Just by looking at the stats its mostly clear that the leaders are better and the Great Axe non leader is by far the worst, with 2 attacks its rally bad. But what surprised me was the Great weapon Leader is actually better than the Paired weapons Bullgors. But not as good as the paired leader.

 

I had come to the same conclusion - actually, the dual weapon option is just better than the double-hander in all circumstances, so much so that I wonder whether there’s an error on the card? In other cases, there’s nuances, but not in this case (whether you’re comparing “troopers” or “leaders” independently).

[girafarig]

and when we calculate the buffs like rampage or rip gore and tear? having in the case of the leader 9 2h vs 15 dual attacks when 16,... percent of the hits are crits, it seems a bit different as we have more quality 2h hits landing compared to withouth rampage.

 

in terms of the archers, i think the arrowboyzs option represents their ability to shoot and then still close in while the ungors ability isnt dice-dependent and gives flat +1 / +2 shots in that turn. ungors only point is to shoot, arrowboyz can charge with their hp in melee too and are more expensive while beasts of chaos have for this job ways bigger guys compared to the used mass of nearly all the same mediocre bulky bonesplitterz if we compare the statlines and extreme scales of the 2 armies. nonetheless are both armies basically jack of all trades armies as they are rather fast, enduring and hart hitting at once.

Edited February 7, 2020 by girafarig

[Baron Wastelands]

1 hour ago, girafarig said:

and when we calculate the buffs like rampage or rip gore and tear? having in the case of the leader 9 2h vs 15 dual attacks when 16,... percent of the hits are crits, it seems a bit different as we have more quality 2h hits landing compared to withouth rampage.

Double-handers are a bit more swingy (no pun intended), but no, these aren’t buffs to individual attacks, as such, so 2 weapons is still better, whether you’re making 1 attack action or 3. 

Basically, if you get lucky with a double-hander it’ll look more impressive for that attack, but game on game, the 2 weapons option wins out.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Baron Wastelands

[Moleculeaxium]

Had my first game today. 

list was 

Bullgor leader two hand weapons 

Dragon Oger Glaive 

5x Gors with two hand weapons 

4x Ungor Raiders 

995 Points

He had sth like 

1 very expensive Hero

and 14 Chaos Barbs. half half  with flails and shields. 

Mission was. 

One Treasure whoever holds It at the end of turn 3 wins. 

He wins the role of  and places the T. 

Puts 6 Barbs on it. I got the Bull two Gors and one R. on the field. 

Rest is turning up at the second turn. 

He starts fails to block my way.My Bull charges in with a quadruple. I kill the one holding the treasure. Game over. 

Basically the Bull murders every one around using some doubles. 

Everything else does nothing except blocking the rest of his army. 

THE DRAGON OGER GETS THE ONLY OTHER KILL. Murders his Boss with 6x6 😅 felt a little bit bad at this point. So we decided to end the game. 

 

Fazit: I really like was the BoC play. Like the Untamed but with monsters. 

Great fun

Will try to get in more games

 

 

 

[Myrdin]

So I had finally the option to give my Beastmen a go. Took a relatively friendly list (Bestigor Leader, 2 DragO with Glaives, 4 Gors with 2 weapons 1 with shield and 2 archers), against a native Warcry Splinter Fang. Needless to say, I completely rofl stomped my opponents warband. It was so bad... he managed to kill 1 Gor.... And this is me rolling pretty poorly for first 2 turns.

Considering that BoC have really *******y card abilities and I decimated him to this degree, it only reinforced my argument that Non Warcry warbands are poorly balanced to fight the Warcry native ones, and should not be played against them unless you opponents who plays a native band has very solid list (usually one that required 2/3 boxes of that one warband to super tailor it with the elite fighter that each warband has 1 of per box eg. Shrike Talon), and is confident in taking you on. Nevermention the fact that factions like Ironjawz, Flesheaters and SCE have pretty amazing and cheap abilities to go alongside the impressive stat line of their units. Honestly you are better off using the Universal abilities most of the times with some exceptions when the BoC ones actually come into play once in a red moon.

I mean If I brought the list intended to go agains the broken that aret Ironjawz (Mino lord, 3 DragO and 4 gors if I count correctly) I would feel actually quite dirty. I think I might play max 1 big guy (if at all) against these warbands, and just fill in with Bestigors instead.

 

Now with that out of the way, I must say.... The BoC are very good You can easily get 2-3 big boys into a list and still field some odd 9-10 miniatures in total. The big ones are very tough with thourh 30 wounds and can soak a lot. Ungor archers are fun, but dont expect much of them. They are pretty good distraction though and might force your opponent to pay them more attention then what they deserve. Dual wp gors are amazing for their price point. Good movement and 10 wounds for 55pts is a great deal.

I will however change my Oppinion on the minotaurs. While less attacks, that S5 might actually be quite valuable. Seeing as I was wounding on 4/5+ against most of his stuff with my DragO, the paired weapon minotaur with its S5 does not seem as bad as I first though it to be at a second glance. They are slower but have more consistent damage I think. The Glaive DragO ... yeah those crits of 5 make it really pop out. I think for paired weapons Minotaurs might be better, while Galive DragOgs are there for the reach and Crit 5 chance.

Bestigor leader is dependable. Pretty much just tiny bit tougher than the regular Warcry leaders. And those tend to be pretty decent for the usual 180ish price tag.

So thats my impressions of this warband after I finally managed to get a proper game in without having to stop halfway through due to time constraints.

[Acid_Nine]

Man  guys are insane! I don’t think I have ever seen a 30 wound monster with 3/6 damage so cheap before... and all the lists I see here have at least two of the dragon ogors. How can people lose with this warband?

[Maddpainting]

Having played Untamed beasts, Unmade, IDK,  a good amount and played against almost every (before this new releases) of warbands more than 3x each I can safely say that not all AOS warbands are very good, and not all Warcry warbands are bad. Both has some that are very good and very bad.

Examples, LoN, Ironjawz, and IDK are not fun and just bad, where Gotz, FeC, and ofc SCE are very good.  For Warcry; Iron Golems are terrible but i feel Unmade and Splinter fang are very good. Then you have many more of a Rock, Paper, Scissor warbands like DoK and Sypher Lords

The problem is SCE, FeC, Gits are just on their own level, where a few others can at least compete with them, they still can lose to others as well that can't compete with the top.

IMO BoC are part of the "can compete with the top" 

I see Warcry in 4 tiers;
A: Top (3-5 warbands here), can compete with everyone, out plays all tiers, only struggles with each other, needs changes
B: Can compete with the top, but is an uphill battle, dependent on some RNG
C; Easily Compete with 2nd tier and easily win against low tier
😧 Low tier, needs changes

Now b.c of the nature of Warcry, all warbands can have missions, and deployments that allows any warband to win. 


From my many games with Unmade and Untamed, Unmade is a full tier higher (B vs a C) and i even have felt really bad fighting players, even ones with Nighthaunt, IDK, Untamed, i even beat the Goblin player (the only time i played him), i feel they are equal to BoC, even tho i have very limted games with BoC at this point and will need to play more before i say how i fully feel, 2 games is not enough for me, i would like 10+ games before i fully say.

[girafarig]

why are people on the net meaning gors and bullgors have the bestial charge ability too? did i miss something erata or are they just wrong?

[Maddpainting]

8 hours ago, girafarig said:

why are people on the net meaning gors and bullgors have the bestial charge ability too? did i miss something erata or are they just wrong?

Being in multiple Warcry communities and focusing on BoC/Untame/Unmade i have not seen anyone think or say this so i don't know why the ones you've seen say this, but i can assume it is b.c that mark looks very close to the other mark (leader mark) so maybe they think leaders can use it?

[Kramig]

On 2/3/2020 at 5:30 PM, Kramig said:

I think I will try this list:

Shaman 165
Bullgor hero245
1 ungor rider
2 gor double weapon
3 bestigor
1 gor with shield

Hi all! finally I tried this list in 2 matches: first one against Corvus and second against Daughters.

Beasts of chaos are a fast and strong warband. The (double) core ability is very good: first turn you can reach 16" of movement! I think the key of their game is moving: you have to think how to move and in which sequence, more than with other warbands.

Bulls are very strong and tanky, bestigor do a high amount of damage for their cost.

I liked the rider, however it depends much on lucky

 

The shaman is very interesting for its weapon (dmg 3/6), the ability is good but not always easy to play.

 

I liked very much Beasts of Chaos, they are a very interesting and stimulating warband

[Maddpainting]

I haven't been able to get any game sin b.c of lock downs, hoping i'll get some in next week as we are lifting the hard restrictions.

[Frozenbeast]

Hi, old user coming back every now and again. Playing BoC for years now and got in contact with Warcry at the beginning and then had no chance to start playing. 

So, last post by @Maddpainting had me thinking. Seen the lockdown, anyone playing on Tabetop Simulator these days? Is there any valid mod to play on?

Cheers

[Kramig]

Hi, I'm playing on tabletop, but for BoC there are only 2d models, not 3d; however you can play well also with 2d. You have to look for aos beast of chaos when searching through the mod