Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣

[Gdead909]

On 4/2/2021 at 6:25 PM, Scythian said:

Sons of Behemat are one of the most addictive armies I’ve ever played. I never feel anxious or apprehensive when I play them. They’re just one of the most relaxing armies I’ve ever played. I planned on buying into vampires, but if they don’t measure up to my Sons, I’ll be saving my money. Anyone who is thinking of trying out Sons, you won’t be disappointed. It’s the most relaxed gaming experience you’ll ever have. I’m going into tomorrow with a 14-0 record. Hoping to be 16-0 by tomorrow’s end, lol. 

How do you handle IDK? 

[Drazhoath]

Yesterday I played against Nurgle at 1500 points with big blocks of Blightkings. Was a close match but I learned how bad -1 to hit can be, our baby gargants are bad glass cannons and 35 go down fast as hell.

How would you handle big blocks of Blightkings?

[Lord Krungharr]

Do the Blightkings get a blanket -1 to hit them or is that just in melee?  Either way I'd be chucking rocks at the heroes for sure.  Massed hurling of debris should be able to snipe at least 1 hero per turn, maybe, I hope?!  

-1 to hit is a pain no matter what.  I've experienced a bubble intersection of -3 vs Gloomspite and some sort of Death army.  That sucked.  Still I think the big boyz should be able to hold out at least 2 turns owning objectives vs Nurgle.  They just don't put out the hurt too much from what I hear, can just take it cuz Nurgle.

[Drazhoath]

10 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Do the Blightkings get a blanket -1 to hit them or is that just in melee?  Either way I'd be chucking rocks at the heroes for sure.  Massed hurling of debris should be able to snipe at least 1 hero per turn, maybe, I hope?!  

-1 to hit is a pain no matter what.  I've experienced a bubble intersection of -3 vs Gloomspite and some sort of Death army.  That sucked.  Still I think the big boyz should be able to hold out at least 2 turns owning objectives vs Nurgle.  They just don't put out the hurt too much from what I hear, can just take it cuz Nurgle.

The -1 came from the Plaquebearers.

Its very hard for us against all These 5++. Even our high rend attacks are not good enough against it because we make to less damage. My Warstomper always had 10 attacks with the club but even without -1 to hit mostly ~4-6 hits were made. After wounds maybe 2-3 attacks went through and against the 5++ maybe one or two Blightkings died.

And 35 wounds melt down very fast even against no rend attacks.

[Lord Krungharr]

Hmmm, I am unfamiliar in the ways of Grandfather Nurgle (much more acquainted with the ways of Khorne and Tzeentch to a lesser extent).  Didn't realize they get a 5++.  Gonna have to study up before my next tournament in July.  

I think with sufficient bluffs however we can intimidate people into making huge blunders!  I have no evidence, or ideas about how, but seems plausible with psychology we can gain an advantage when needed.

[Gdead909]

I have been having a really hard time lately with my sons. I feel like most armies we are on the back foot

[Hannibal]

23 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

Yesterday I played against Nurgle at 1500 points with big blocks of Blightkings. Was a close match but I learned how bad -1 to hit can be, our baby gargants are bad glass cannons and 35 go down fast as hell.

How would you handle big blocks of Blightkings?

As a Nurgle player myself I can´t see a way to reliably win against Sons of Behemat.

Blightkings only get a 5++ if there is a Harbinger of Decay in the opposing army (160 points) and it forces them to stay together.

Plaguebearers only get their -1 to hit in melee if they are at least 20 strong. THerefore they are mostly fielded in blobs of 30 (300 points).

Blightkings are only dangerous if they are fielded as part of a certain battalion to give them all rend -1 (140 points). In addition, they are really swingy when it comes to damage being caused due to the fact that they heavily rely on exploding 6s.

Therefore in a 1500 points game the Nurgle player has to pay quite a lot of points to get "good" units, which essentially means "not half bad". for the battalion he needs a Lord of Blight (which can hand out -1 to hit too). That´s 740 points in units that do nothing on the table but be support. In a 1500 point game?

And don´t forget that such an army is quite low on numbers. Sure, you can run Plaguebearers in units of 30, but they won´t do anything in offense, basically they are the definition of a sitting duck. And they are extremely slow if they don´t field a Great Unclean One or at least a sorcerer.

[Drazhoath]

38 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

As a Nurgle player myself I can´t see a way to reliably win against Sons of Behemat.

Blightkings only get a 5++ if there is a Harbinger of Decay in the opposing army (160 points) and it forces them to stay together.

Plaguebearers only get their -1 to hit in melee if they are at least 20 strong. THerefore they are mostly fielded in blobs of 30 (300 points).

Blightkings are only dangerous if they are fielded as part of a certain battalion to give them all rend -1 (140 points). In addition, they are really swingy when it comes to damage being caused due to the fact that they heavily rely on exploding 6s.

Therefore in a 1500 points game the Nurgle player has to pay quite a lot of points to get "good" units, which essentially means "not half bad". for the battalion he needs a Lord of Blight (which can hand out -1 to hit too). That´s 740 points in units that do nothing on the table but be support. In a 1500 point game?

And don´t forget that such an army is quite low on numbers. Sure, you can run Plaguebearers in units of 30, but they won´t do anything in offense, basically they are the definition of a sitting duck. And they are extremely slow if they don´t field a Great Unclean One or at least a sorcerer.

Blightkings pump out a heavy amount of wounds with their -1 rend battalion! In comparison with their ability of 6s when they make hit rolls even a mega gargant falls very quickly (normal gargants die faster). And he is 1/3 of that army. Not forget that nurgle can summon new units mostly in round 3 or 4 and we have not enough unit to score points at this point.

Blightkings are a super good aggressive unit against low save units like our mini gargants and even megas fall soon with such a heavy amount of -1 rend attacks!

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Drazhoath

[Hannibal]

A Mega Gargant offers a 4+ save, meaning with rend -1 you still have a 5+ save.

A Blightking offers 3 attacks, which on a 6 to hit become d6 hits. That is, on average, 3 * 0.5 + 3 * 1/6 * 3.5 = 3.25 hits per Blightking per attack phase or 1.44 wounds caused to a Mega Gargant per attack phase.

That means you need roughly 24 Blightkings to kill a Mega Gargant in one go.

To do this, the Nurgle player hast to invest 700 points to field those 24 Blightkings as well as 280 points to get the mandatory Hero and Battalion to get rend -1.

 

It is possible that you lost your Mega Gargant way faster, but that might be purely bad luck.

 

[Drazhoath]

19 hours ago, Hannibal said:

A Mega Gargant offers a 4+ save, meaning with rend -1 you still have a 5+ save.

A Blightking offers 3 attacks, which on a 6 to hit become d6 hits. That is, on average, 3 * 0.5 + 3 * 1/6 * 3.5 = 3.25 hits per Blightking per attack phase or 1.44 wounds caused to a Mega Gargant per attack phase.

That means you need roughly 24 Blightkings to kill a Mega Gargant in one go.

To do this, the Nurgle player hast to invest 700 points to field those 24 Blightkings as well as 280 points to get the mandatory Hero and Battalion to get rend -1.

 

It is possible that you lost your Mega Gargant way faster, but that might be purely bad luck.

 

But combine this with 4+ save and 5++ and Blightkings won’t die easily. So just one unit of 10 Blightkings have 40 wounds. A lot of meat to chew through...

And sorry but a 5+ save for our megas is almost nothing. Two battle rounds and the mega is dead.

[Arael]

My 3d Printed tribe keep growing... 😁

[Arael]

Assembled  😁

 

[Reuben Parker]

On 4/7/2021 at 11:52 PM, Gdead909 said:

How do you handle IDK? 

Without being negative as any army can have an bad matchup I don’t think you can. If SoB beat IDK the IDK player has to be bad and probably a bad list as even a bad player with an average IDK list will win. 
 

faster, hit harder and the very common Don Haim gives them ridiculous re rolls. Rr1 to hit on charge and rr all wounds. To the point where 340 points of Eels on average nearly downs a mega. Add in high tide for strikes first and it’s over. 
 

to me IDK are giants worst matchup currently. 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:24 AM, Drazhoath said:

But combine this with 4+ save and 5++ and Blightkings won’t die easily. So just one unit of 10 Blightkings have 40 wounds. A lot of meat to chew through...

And sorry but a 5+ save for our megas is almost nothing. Two battle rounds and the mega is dead.

But during those two rounds isn't the MegaG scoring the objective over the Blightkings?  That's the special sauce.  I've not yet finished my SoB army construction but really really really wanting to field them!  Skaven Mega is nearly done building, Mancrushers are ready to paint.  Guess that's a 1000 points!  Had to order a Soul Grinder kit to do my Mega-Mecha Cygor; still not real sure how my Chaos Dwarf Clockwork Mega will be.  That's the tough one.

I'm going with the Breaker Tribe, 2 Gatebreakers, 1 Kraken Eater, and 1 unit of 3 Mancrushers.  Probably Portcullis, and extremely bitter with bossypants and the icon-haters one.  Though ShinyUns might pay off too sometimes.

[Scythian]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:52 PM, Gdead909 said:

How do you handle IDK? 

If IDK come within 3” of the middle line, my gate breakers move up 12” and charge. Once that happens, the eels are dead! No save with rend of 3 and high damage eliminates them quick. Use shiny uns and you hit on 3’s. 

[Drazhoath]

4 hours ago, Scythian said:

If IDK come within 3” of the middle line, my gate breakers move up 12” and charge. Once that happens, the eels are dead! No save with rend of 3 and high damage eliminates them quick. Use shiny uns and you hit on 3’s. 

This Idoneth player didn’t use shield eels? For me as a Idoneth player I screen my hammers with Ishlaen Guards. So rend -3 means nothing...

[Fellman]

Game vs 3 blothirsters + skarbrand

he gave me first turn
my turn 1 advance 3 singel mankrusher on ubjektivs 
his turn 1 kils center mancrusher pail in 6 hurt my man crusher unit and megas the dies
his turn 2 (dubbel tur) hi kills singel krusher on right flank my unit of man crushers and krakeneater general
my turn 2 gatbraker kills skarbrand
my turn 3 gatbraker charge center unit dogs and banner bearer does 2 wonds total
his turn 3 kils my gatbraker whit 2 blothi´rster
his turn 4 (dubbelturn) he kills my last krusher on teh left objektivs and game over

lost but it was a intens game

 

[Gdead909]

Ya I love my megas but I have only won one game with them. Once someone has played against them I don’t think they lose to them again

[Drazhoath]

9 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

Ya I love my megas but I have only won one game with them. Once someone has played against them I don’t think they lose to them again

That’s right! Sunday I played a 1000 point game against SE. Once he recognized I smash everything I touch, he avoided close combat and played the victory point game. And with only two units it was very hard for me. I tabled him and only lost 8 wounds but lost the game. But all in all it was close and fun though.

[Dejnar]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:22 PM, Fellman said:

Game vs 3 blothirsters + skarbrand

he gave me first turn
my turn 1 advance 3 singel mankrusher on ubjektivs 
his turn 1 kils center mancrusher pail in 6 hurt my man crusher unit and megas the dies
his turn 2 (dubbel tur) hi kills singel krusher on right flank my unit of man crushers and krakeneater general
my turn 2 gatbraker kills skarbrand
my turn 3 gatbraker charge center unit dogs and banner bearer does 2 wonds total
his turn 3 kils my gatbraker whit 2 blothi´rster
his turn 4 (dubbelturn) he kills my last krusher on teh left objektivs and game over

lost but it was a intens game

 

 

Nice game!

Is that Tims Khorne army by amy chance?

[Fellman]

5 hours ago, Dejnar said:

Nice game!

Is that Tims Khorne army by amy chance?

Yes it is 

[Lord Krungharr]

It does seem tough to fight an army with an everybody strikes first trick like the Khorne Tyrants battalion (or at least one of their subfactions can do that).  Guess it depends on the mission too.  If there were objectives to score without having to move up soon, the Sons could hurl some boulders and get rid of a Thirster maybe (especially if the army had the BossyPants hatred).  Hard to master indeed.

I've seen many comments on a game group about Kairos+Archaon+Tzeentch tome= win win win.  Not sure how the Sons would cope with that much wizardry and stuff, but at least we can't auto die to Archaon's sword!

[Dejnar]

12 hours ago, Fellman said:

Yes it is 

Nice!

[Fellman]

18 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

It does seem tough to fight an army with an everybody strikes first trick like the Khorne Tyrants battalion (or at least one of their subfactions can do that).  Guess it depends on the mission too.  If there were objectives to score without having to move up soon, the Sons could hurl some boulders and get rid of a Thirster maybe (especially if the army had the BossyPants hatred).  Hard to master indeed.

I've seen many comments on a game group about Kairos+Archaon+Tzeentch tome= win win win.  Not sure how the Sons would cope with that much wizardry and stuff, but at least we can't auto die to Archaon's sword!

It was ok the "normal" thirster was not the problem, no problem out surviving them skarband on the other hand... 
whit the dubbel turn i mised the chans to kil it and he hit mi like a truck kiled

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh yeah, Skarbrand, forgot about him 😮