AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Wraith]

After having viewed the Youtube reviews of the new battletome, I have reached the conclusion that the most interesting war scroll is the Corvus Cabal.

They work like Parachutists, dropping in to threaten unguarded objectives. Having them in reserve forces an opponent to keep stuff back to prevent them taking objectives. That makes them worth their 80 points cost. Even one unit of them in a list will help shape what your opponent can do.

 

Also, if they are in cover, they can't be seen. So they can't be charged or shot at, right?

 

These guys are 'sick'. So sick that I just ordered a box of them. Definitely suit the Be'lakor theme, also. A very shady bunch of fellows.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Wraith

[Beliman]

11 minutes ago, Wraith said:

So they can't be charged or shot at, right?

They can be charged (charge don't need line of sight)

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

9 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

In the one game i played so far i tried buff stacking undivided (with conduit) varanguard but twice i rolled double ones on that 3 d6 spell cast, first time the manticore ate 4 wounds and the second completely nuked my own foot sorc. My rolls where all pretty horrible so i dunno what to make of that but im not convinced thats the way to go. It did make me consider adding mark of tzeentch to foot wiz so he gets some kinda mortal wound save tho.

Im having a hard time figuring out some kinda cultist list i think there might be some play there with belakore in legions but it strikes me as very strange the splinter fangs attack profile is so much better than all other cultist. I woulda liked to see more variations throughout the cultist stat blocks.

@Ravinsild i think you got a good start to core army but the manticore is a far cry from the mawcrusher.

I have had some luck with Draw on Power for the spell casting boost, but the things I am learning are that you don't want to use it every hero phase, and that re-rolls on those rolls are worth exponentially more than usual (where they are already pretty good). Cogs or Master of Magic are both big deals with that approach. I've also found 6+ saves plentiful enough in the build I run that Sorcs dropping Oracular Visions on themselves can save them from just exploding outright under a bad miscast.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

Got my box earlier today and have been assembling the Chosen. I cannot say enough nice things about this kit. Just fantastic overall. Lots of variety, with tons of extra head and weapon options--even two different banners options (which is great for keeping track of your Ensorcelled Banner in a reinforced unit if you do that). Poses are dynamic without feeling too out there, and there's multiple different arm poses in some cases depending on which weapon you attach to a given torso. Speaking of poses, the two-handed grips actually fit together easily and smoothly, which is more or less a first in my experience. And while there's definitely some fiddly bits (the badges on the right-hand pauldrons come to mind, as do some of the individual spike attachments) they are way less fiddly than I thought after looking at them.

The closest thing I have to a complaint is that the massive variety is limited in two very specific places--the weapons for the standard bearer or drummer. Both have great-looking armaments, but in a reinforced unit where you take duplicate standards and/or drummers, you will notice the repeat. However, that's partially because you don't have to have any repeats without duplicating those roles. No joke--there are five unsued weapons after building a full sprue's worth, so taking ten of them can feature ten unique weapons in theory (or 8 unique weapons and safety from getting your banner or drummer sniped).

It's just so good. I'm in love and I haven't even started building my Daemon Prince yet.

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Got my box earlier today and have been assembling the Chosen. I cannot say enough nice things about this kit. Just fantastic overall. Lots of variety, with tons of extra head and weapon options--even two different banners options (which is great for keeping track of your Ensorcelled Banner in a reinforced unit if you do that). Poses are dynamic without feeling too out there, and there's multiple different arm poses in some cases depending on which weapon you attach to a given torso. Speaking of poses, the two-handed grips actually fit together easily and smoothly, which is more or less a first in my experience. And while there's definitely some fiddly bits (the badges on the right-hand pauldrons come to mind, as do some of the individual spike attachments) they are way less fiddly than I thought after looking at them.

The closest thing I have to a complaint is that the massive variety is limited in two very specific places--the weapons for the standard bearer or drummer. Both have great-looking armaments, but in a reinforced unit where you take duplicate standards and/or drummers, you will notice the repeat. However, that's partially because you don't have to have any repeats without duplicating those roles. No joke--there are five unsued weapons after building a full sprue's worth, so taking ten of them can feature ten unique weapons in theory (or 8 unique weapons and safety from getting your banner or drummer sniped).

It's just so good. I'm in love and I haven't even started building my Daemon Prince yet.

Haha! I‘ve already build my DP!

I can only agree about the Chosen: Mold line removal is super easy, they don’t consist of too many parts either. To fix the banner situation I‘ll attack one cloth-less banner to the bag of one of them and maybe attach a Bloodreaver horn to the belt of another.

I haven’t build the Theridons yet, but I am looking forward to it!

[Wraith]

8 hours ago, Beliman said:

They can be charged (charge don't need line of sight)

OK, so they can be charged and hit in combat without being visible. But not shot at. I am used to rules that require visibility for charges. But I guess it is best to keep the rules simple.

It looks like they might have issues with spells and prayers from friendly sources that require the recipient being visible. Is that correct?

Not a big deal though. The core value of these guys is the deep strike, cheap cost and also their screening value, Anything is is just a bonus.

[Beliman]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It looks like they might have issues with spells and prayers from friendly sources that require the recipient being visible. Is that correct?

They are not visible to enemy units, if they are in cover. You can buff them without any problem.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

They are not visible to enemy units, if they are in cover. You can buff them without any problem.

OK, that's good.

 

I have thought of another question. The Corvus Cabal can be declared in reserve during deployment. Does that count as a 'drop'for deployment purposes?

 

A more general question I would like to ask, is how much chaff do people include in their lists? 10% of points total, maybe? Is 25% too much?

[Beliman]

24 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I have thought of another question. The Corvus Cabal can be declared in reserve during deployment. Does that count as a 'drop'for deployment purposes?

Yep, it counts. When it's time to set-up this unit (and count as your drop), you say it's set-up in "the shadows" instead that on the table. 

That's all.

[Rors]

Has anyone seen the warscroll for spawn in the slaves to darkeness book? Is it the same as the one disciples of tzentch got?

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

Has anyone seen the warscroll for spawn in the slaves to darkeness book? Is it the same as the one disciples of tzentch got?

GMG showed it and it’s basically unchanged 

[JackStreicher]

Henceforth rend shall be added to each weapon of the demonic prince. The damage capabilities of each weapon shall be doubled.

increase the points of said prince by 25.

 

That‘s how we‘ll play him if I‘ll try a AoS game anytime soon. (No need to stick to GW‘s warscrolls if they clearly messed them up).

it feels to me like we as a community should more often fix the game to be more enjoyable.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by JackStreicher

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

The issue with pushing community fixes is that it becomes fractious and hard to understand real fast. A standardized understanding of the game is vital if you want to be able to play against people you don't know. I'm not just talking about events here--even within a single game store, if a new player comes into the game excited to play with their freshly purchased battletome, they aren't going to get your house rules or why you made them. Even if there's an outdated or heavily errata'd battletome, that's usually an easier sell than house rules. And the moment you have multiple communities in an area (which is the case near me)n or travel to a con or tournament or other event...all bets are off.

Sure, in theory you could make rules so good everyone adopts them. That doesn't happen in real life. Ever. You make a competing standard, at best you split the community two ways. More likely you get ignore, or someone else makes a third standard you don't like but isn't the core rules either.

Now, to not be a complete downer, I will say house rules have their place for sure. But they are not a fix for the community at large. They are good for using against friends and among communities you already know and who are interested in buying in. Just be aware of their limitations.

[Bayul]

My new weird color scheme for my Tzeentch army I created in Impcat. Inspired by Total War: Warhammer:

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I like the scheme, @Bayul! One question, although I think it works with whatever answer--is it supposed to be that glossy, or is that an artifact of Impcat? The colors are good overall, and you're making me want to post some of the Warriors I've gotten painted in my own scheme.

[Ravinsild]

I built sub assembled my Daemon Prince into a bunch of smaller pieces. I built 2 different heads and 2 different sets of feet. Can’t decide which to go with. 
 

part of me wants to upgrade my original daemon Prince using the green feet and forward horn facing head (the closest we get in the new kit to this older head version), but part of my wants to go mini Bloodthirster with the Khorne head and hooves. It is an incredibly hard decision for some reason.

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, Ravinsild said:

I built sub assembled my Daemon Prince into a bunch of smaller pieces. I built 2 different heads and 2 different sets of feet. Can’t decide which to go with. 
 

part of me wants to upgrade my original daemon Prince using the green feet and forward horn facing head (the closest we get in the new kit to this older head version), but part of my wants to go mini Bloodthirster with the Khorne head and hooves. It is an incredibly hard decision for some reason.

My brother did this with spare bits

 

 

[Bayul]

39 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

One question, although I think it works with whatever answer--is it supposed to be that glossy, or is that an artifact of Impcat?

It's a metallic base with a blue layer. I'll try to replicate it with Leadbelcher and Aethermatic Blue probably.

[Wraith]

12 hours ago, Beliman said:

Yep, it counts. When it's time to set-up this unit (and count as your drop), you say it's set-up in "the shadows" instead that on the table. 

That's all.

OK, so they are drops, but empty drops. That is: opponent doesn't get to see where a unit goes, but has to deploy one of his each time.

 

How is this list as an example of including enough chaff?

 

It has 4 units of chaff, two being Corvus Cabal. I made the general an idolater, so the chaff are a bit more survivable and can do some mortal wounds. Combined with the Shackles spell, there should be a reasonable board control potential here.

Is is legal to have a wizard as a priest, I wonder? Also, I am confused at to whether wizard heroes can go the Conqueror's Crown.

 

 

Host of the Everchosen - Three Drops - 2000 points

Grand Strategy: TBD

 

Heroes:

Chaos Sorcerer on Manticore*     - General, Trait: Idolator    - 265pt
            - The Conqueror's Crown, Mark of Nurgle
            - Binding Damnation spell
            - Curse Prayer

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak*-  Mark of Slannesh             - 220pt

Chaos Sorcerer* - Mark of Nurgle                  - 120pt
        - Demonic Speed spell

 

Battleline:

Chaos Knights* (10) - Banner of Slannesh, Mark of Slannesh    - 460pt

Chaos Warriors* (10) - Banner of Nurgle, Mark of Nurgle     - 220pt

Untamed Beasts* (9) - Mark of Nurgle                - 90pt

Untamed Beasts* (9) - Mark of Nurgle                - 90pt

Corvus Cabal (9) - Mark of Nurgle                - 80pt

Corvus Cabal (9) - Mark of Nurgle                - 80pt

 

Other Units:

Mindstealer Sphiranx*                        - 95pt

 

Behemoths:

Chaos Warshrine* - Mark of Slannesh                - 185pt
         - Heal Prayer

 

Endless Spell: 

Eightfold Sigal of Doom                        - 40pt
Soulsnare Shackles                        - 50pt

 

Battalions: 

Battle Regiment*

                                      TOTAL    - 1995pt

[Ravinsild]

For chaff I’m considering Furies, Untamed Beast and Darkoath Savagers. I’m really trying to find that ultra classic box art, premium poster art Chaos army look. That means marauders who look like Vikings like in Total War: Warhammer 1-3, which untamed beasts or Darkoath seem to fit. I love the fur look. 

everything else is heavy black full plate, from Chaos Lords in all their iterations to Chaos Warriors, Knights and Chosen. This brings me to consider possibly bringing a trophy rack daemon Prince to help bolster my chaff from fleeing, unless there’s a no battleshock artifact. 
 

Furies seem like good screens and able to retreat and annoy people is funny to me especially if they hit them with their hammers expecting to delete them and if I can just run away I can lite their big hitters potentially. Untamed Beasts to rush forward and provide a real big screen and take up space. Darkoath because it would give me a reason to run the Chieftan I painted for Silver Tower the board game (10/10 recommend it) and because they’re cool looking. Also they don’t seem horrible for a chaff unit. They have better saves than most (5+ Lul) and potential to get a 5+ ward save (awesome!) and do like fine damage. They could probably fight dryads or Bloodreavers or something like that. Clanrats, other cultists, you know the real ****** save low damage.

 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Is is legal to have a wizard as a priest, I wonder? Also, I am confused at to whether wizard heroes can go the Conqueror's Crown.

Both legal.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Both legal.

OK, cool. Can they do all of spell, unbind a spell/endless spell, chant prayer/banish invocation in the same hero phase? Is there any precedent for a wizard/priest in other lists before this? I wonder if this will get FAQ'ed as some point?

 

 

7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

For chaff I’m considering Furies, Untamed Beast and Darkoath Savagers.

...

Furies seem like good screens and able to retreat and annoy people is funny to me especially if they hit them with their hammers expecting to delete them and if I can just run away I can lite their big hitters potentially.

 

Furies definitely look interesting. There is a guy who has been running them in the old Legion of the Dark Prince list, in 4 units of 12 furies. They work more like asymmetric objective contenders rather than as screens. But they can do both.

 

The basic idea is to keep all of those 4 units within 6" of their allocated objective. Just cower out of combat to stay alive. In the old Dark Prince list they got 1D3 healing on a 3+ each turn for each unit, and a 6+ ward save. Now they have a normal 6+ save and  they will have to rely on the rally once 3" away from an opponent. At least each successful rally brings back 2 wounds in effect. Happens in Hero phase. I must try to stop forgetting to do it.

 

I only have 12 Furies at present, so can't build a list around them yet.

 

[Ravinsild]

In so far as my personal mission to beef up a Daemon Prince of Khorne to destroyer status as he deserves has anyone been looking at the universal artifacts and command traits? 

For Command Traits:

Battle-Lust is appealing to me on both this unit and a Chaos Lord on Karkadrak. 

Bolstered By Chaos could help a lot. Use the Khorne Command Ability to cause d3 MW on the charge on a 2+, then monstrous action stomp the same unit for another round of d3 mortal wounds on another 2+… could be a nice little pre-fight explosion. 
 

Radiance of Dark Glory appeals to me if combined with the Khornate Heroic Action to always be healing himself and his allies. It appeals to me because as an Ironjawz player I’ve had one ArdBoy sticking around with 1 wound and it would take just that much longer to wipe the tarpit/anvil of a unit if they were constantly topped off, however I really value weird defenses like 6+ saves more than most because of my magic and MW heavy meta which every inch of survival is another chance to stick around. Lots of Sylvaneth, Tzeentch, Lumineth etc where I play. Lots of ranged attacks too. Hosts of the Everchosen Rally + Khorne heal battery might mean we make it to the objective with scant few casualties. 
 

Not to be Denied and Skilled Leader seem like kind of the same way of doing the same thing like you’d probably heroic action to grab a CP anyway then do the Khorne HA or whatever, so like you know… we always like CP 🤷‍♂️
 

As far as Artifacts go:

Helm of Many Eyes… well I guess this is how you get the old Warscroll ability back with out having to be Undivded and Strike First is high value especially if running Chaos Lord on Foot with Chosen and Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount with Knights and suddenly you’re basically Ironjawz smashing and bashing for free. Pretty sweet. 

Doombringer Blade or Vial of Manticore Poison is interesting. Combined with All Out Attack which is I guess the way you’d get back the old Warscroll ability +1 to hit on charge but now just in general, combined with a +1 to wound either all the time, or you and anyone in your army against the selected hero or monster (but then they die and the artifact has 0 value)… but +1 to hit and wound is nice considering there’s no other way except Daemonic Power and that could be used on literally anything else… I value +1 to wound. 

Since he’s Khorne the whole make him a wizard via Arcane Tome or whatever else then plug in Flaming Sword isn’t really a thing. 

I guess that leaves Hellfire Sword for an Axe Daemon Prince as a potential option to hilariously make him a potentially better version of the actual sword daemon Prince?? 
 

 

 

[Rors]

Along with the artifacts and traits you mentioned a lot of the buffs to charge up a Khorne DP will come from other parts in the list.

The most directly impactful ones are going to give extra attacks: blood secrator, death bringer, wrath mongers, sigil. That's 4 additional attacks in total. A stoker for charge bonus and wound rerolls.

Within out own book a sorcerer can give him +1 to hit and wound.

Put that all together aaannnd you have 10 attacks, 2s and 2s, 2 mortals on 6s, rend 2 damage 2, that can double activate once a game.

It's 100% meme but he'd be the blender he's meant to be.

[ibel]

Nize Think @Ravinsild but i am not really sure if u can get very much off the DP on its own. 

 

Hear a idea, what do u think :

Spoiler

Host: Despoiler

Dämonenprinz  MdN, Axt           195 (BAT1)

General: Bolstered by Chaos

Artefact: The Conquers Crown

Dämonenprinz  MdN Sword      195

GThread:Radiance of Dark Glory

Chaos Wizzard  MdT      120 (BAT1)

Spell: Bindung Damnation

Chaos Wizzard Manticore MdT 265

Spell: Flaming Weapon

 

Batteline

20 Chaos Warrior MdN 440 (BAT1)

Banner: The Ironic Icon

1x Horsmen MdN           105 (BAT1)

1xCorvus MdN                 80 (BAT1)

Monster

Mutalith Beast  MdT      185 (Mons1)

Mutalith Beast  MdT      185 (Mons1)

Mutalith Beast  MdT      185 (Mons1)

 

Geminis               40 Punkte

 

1995 Punkte

6er Drop…