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Starcast - The Thread


Turragor

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I am also considering giving Anvils a try, 1 CP to get your 500 pt model to fight again is not bad, although without staunch and on the offense, there might pass 2 combat phases before you even get the chance to use it, and often at that point the combat will have been decided or ended.

Staunch is really good, but also sort of annoying to play with, as it requires a lot of finnicky moving around if you want to cover more models, but it does improve the value of many units by a lot, that 100 pts liberator screen is rather durable with a 3+ reroll 1's for their points and I enjoy putting them in front of the drake dropping from the sky whereever I take the drake in  the early game.

It would be freeing not using it though, and could be awesome and could be terrible, so would love to hear peoples experiences, considering how many dangerous things are running around these days, who can take down a drake with little effort without it having protection to the teeth.

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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I am also considering giving Anvils a try, 1 CP to get your 500 pt model to fight again is not bad, although without staunch and on the offense, there might pass 2 combat phases before you even get the chance to use it, and often at that point the combat will have been decided or ended.

Staunch is really good, but also sort of annoying to play with, as it requires a lot of finnicky moving around if you want to cover more models, but it does improve the value of many units by a lot, that 100 pts liberator screen is rather durable with a 3+ reroll 1's for their points and I enjoy putting them in front of the drake dropping from the sky whereever I take the drake in  the early game.

It would be freeing not using it though, and could be awesome and could be terrible, so would love to hear peoples experiences, considering how many dangerous things are running around these days, who can take down a drake with little effort without it having protection to the teeth.

Yeah I am nervous about dropping staunch. And when I do it almost feels (like that latest double stormwinged list) that I may as well drop the Castellant and the Lord Celestant with it. The whole thing works imo, parts of it together work much less so.

So I've went for double drakesworn. However I'm not settled on mirrorshield. Maybe the Drakescale armour for reroll saves against >1 damage attacks...

It pains me though, I love the thundershield.

In fact I love the LCoSD so much, I might opt for Anvils and LCoSD, Templar and Prime.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Deathly Aura
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
Everblaze Comet (100)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 81

I spontaneously feel this is worse though.

Edited by Turragor
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It might be too cheeky, but what do you think about this Turragor?

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Storm Lance
- Artefact: Soulthief

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
8 x Desolators (800)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

You can activate Heroes of Another Age and shoot with 8 Desolators which should be 4d3 mortal wounds on average. Then during shooting you have 2 stormbolt bows which can make the next volley even better. Storm Blast hits on 4, but with one skybolt landing, its 3, and if both it goes down to 2. Anything that survives will have to deal with an 8 man unit of desolators. Which is 40 attacks at 4/3/-1/2 assuming no skybolt hits.

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I used to run SD and convocation lists when the Battletome was first released and everything was Gav Bombs and masses of Sequitors. Couldn't fit 2 Drakes in due to the old points cost but it was broadly  the same idea behind it. Was just being fluffy back then though,  didnt really enjoy the typical SC list so trying something deliberately ostentatious.

Weird how the meta has evolved to a point where its legit. Great thread @Turragor

Edited by Nos
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2 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

It might be too cheeky, but what do you think about this Turragor?

 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Storm Lance
- Artefact: Soulthief

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
8 x Desolators (800)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

You can activate Heroes of Another Age and shoot with 8 Desolators which should be 4d3 mortal wounds on average. Then during shooting you have 2 stormbolt bows which can make the next volley even better. Storm Blast hits on 4, but with one skybolt landing, its 3, and if both it goes down to 2. Anything that survives will have to deal with an 8 man unit of desolators. Which is 40 attacks at 4/3/-1/2 assuming no skybolt hits.

Drakesworns do not reroll saves of 1. "Only" 3+ save that can easily be rended to 4 or worse, even if not rended it's only 3+ with no way to heal. No  castellant, no aetheral brooch. It's very very risky.

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2 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Drakesworns do not reroll saves of 1. "Only" 3+ save that can easily be rended to 4 or worse, even if not rended it's only 3+ with no way to heal. No  castellant, no aetheral brooch. It's very very risky.

I know, I'm not relying on them making saves. This is more of an alpha strike list.  And the desolators are good anvil/hammer.

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2 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

I know, I'm not relying on them making saves. This is more of an alpha strike list.  And the desolators are good anvil/hammer.

I would  take only 6 of them, bring a mage along to cast celestial blade on them then. Take the axe on drakes so enemys can't pile in by much. What do you think ? Desolators are good anvil, when supported by castellant and/or staunch.

Edited by Maturin
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1 hour ago, SleeperAgent said:

It might be too cheeky, but what do you think about this Turragor?

 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Storm Lance
- Artefact: Soulthief

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
8 x Desolators (800)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

You can activate Heroes of Another Age and shoot with 8 Desolators which should be 4d3 mortal wounds on average. Then during shooting you have 2 stormbolt bows which can make the next volley even better. Storm Blast hits on 4, but with one skybolt landing, its 3, and if both it goes down to 2. Anything that survives will have to deal with an 8 man unit of desolators. Which is 40 attacks at 4/3/-1/2 assuming no skybolt hits.

2 Drakes and 8 Desolators! This is some fun stuff. I think it'll do amazingly against some lists and then have issues against others. This applies to a lot of SC lists though, so again the thing to do would be test it out some, see how it feels.

When I ran 2 Drakesworn and 6 Desolators, I found that it was hard to get 6 swinging into one target - and the debuff (drake's bow) is on a single target. So I'd have 60% attacks at 3+ and then the rest into a separate unit (if enemy is clumped) or not attacking. It would definitely be much better for the Dracothian guard shooting attack with 8 I think. Unless you meet units with big footprints.

1 hour ago, Nos said:

I used to run SD and convocation lists when the Battletome was first released and everything was Gav Bombs and masses of Sequitors. Couldn't fit 2 Drakes in due to the old points cost but it was broadly  the same idea behind it. Was just being fluffy back then though,  didnt really enjoy the typical SC list so trying something deliberately ostentatious.

Weird how the meta has evolved to a point where its legit. Great thread @Turragor

I'll have to test it to see if it really can be something, but it does feel like it could do 3 wins at a tourney. I think 4 would be tough. That said, isn't that the case for most SC lists?

So in that sense, yeah, the price reductions for the dragons really let those who play my/our style find respectable lists.

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These lists will have HUGE issues with some other lists, I know as I have played a bunch against an Ogor player with pure beastrider lists and the drakes are just puny there, can't use their bites or tails at all against all those monsters, then you pay 500 points for your celestant to mount a vampire lord who forgot his magic ;) 

No anti magic in an army incredibly vulnerable to mortal wounds really banks on the alpha, despite dragons being rather poor alpha striking monsters compared to Stonehorns, Mawkrushas etc.

The problem I found with anvils and dracothian guards is the hero phase part and 12" range, so you need to start with the unit within 12" before it can move, to shoot in the hero phase. That rarely happens outside the opponent failing a charge or you get the double turn on your opponent. To make this happen you also need a hero in range, so at this point range you have over 60% of your army in 1 spot, which could mean auto loosing any battleplan with spread out or many objectives.

I really like dracoths though, despite them not being all that great, but I think 8 desolators is a bit too many eggs in one basket. I really prefer the more expensive concussors, 4 man squads being really dangerous as they will most likely get a 6 and prevent a pile-in, which can be devastating with good charge positioning, not to mention the mortal wounds and increased hit chance. Desolators got more attacks, but they are 1 bloodboil away from dropping below cocussor output in their efficency with none of the utility.

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3 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

These lists will have HUGE issues with some other lists, I know as I have played a bunch against an Ogor player with pure beastrider lists and the drakes are just puny there, can't use their bites or tails at all against all those monsters, then you pay 500 points for your celestant to mount a vampire lord who forgot his magic ;) 

No anti magic in an army incredibly vulnerable to mortal wounds really banks on the alpha, despite dragons being rather poor alpha striking monsters compared to Stonehorns, Mawkrushas etc.

I am still very much a noob but I am testing this list in preparation for a tournament and the ballista as a hammer are quite effective at dealing with big monsters (I know they are supposed to be swingy but with 4 of them + LO they have been quite consistent for me in terms of average wounds per round) and with small heroes too coupled with MW from drake and prime

LCoSD, Prime, Incantor, Ordinator, 3xlibs, 4xballistas

I know this somewhat changes the nature of the list though 😅

 

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Played double stormwinged grand convocation v tough ossiarchs :

Petrifex 

Katakros 

Bone-returneroo

Harvester 

Crawler 

20 guard 

20 guard 

40 guard 

Battleplan starstrike. 

I can say it was tough going. I made mistakes (1st time with the list). 

Major loss but with some redeeming points. 

It may be a dark horse of a list!

Basically auto casting some spells. Multi eating is king. 

Took out 40 guard over 3 rounds (from 2 units, I ignored one) but I struggled to remove harvester due to the healing. Prime would be desirable in that respect. But then I'd kill fewer guard. Hm 

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2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

LCoSD, Prime

I think when you take these 2 at the same time, you're kind of embracing the Starcast spirit.

I'm going to roll a dice to decide what list to take to my tourney saturday. Lists due in tonight. It is fitting given how Starcast feels at times.

 

6 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Geralt ? Is that you ?

... f*ck

Edited by Turragor
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Okay, list for Saturday sent in. I'm taking my own advice and using a list I know inside out and making some minor tweaks/testing a few things.
 

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Soulthief
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86

 

So it's Starcast - pure Starcast units wise - and then because I liked stormwinged and eating in hero phase a lot in my wildly different convocation list, I've given up staunch and an artefact (this is an event thats banning realm artefacts anyway) and opted for Anvils.

I've added a Heraldor in with the points difference from the reductions after my last tournament with this list.

Small tweaks, lets see how it does.

 

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I will attend a weekend spanning event of 30 people and 5 teams, all moving around  large interactive map on a projector screen, with fights taking place on the tabletop of course, sort of like a narrative warhammer mixed with settlers and risk metagame on top.

It is still a competetion, but there is also some narrative considerations and backstory to come up with along with crazy things that can happen, like fights player team mates reinforcing with their armies in real time, so a fight can become a 2v1 or 2v2 etc. Battleplans are completely custom made as well.

I first considered playing my bonereapers, but I also want to make friends, so instead I am heavily considering bringing some bombastic general on a dragon to lean in on the heroic narrative. There are also some interesting restrictions and extra rules:

Points start at 1200, but can be increased by 150-200 depending on conquering territory, which is divided within the teams. Most of the time a list will probably be around the 1350 mark, you can add and remove units but it incurs af timeout penalty. NO artifacts allowed, custom artifacts can be gained during the campaign, but as such these can not be taken into account and can be ignored when chosing stormhosts.

An important restriction is also Natural save rolls of 1 AND 2 always fails (can still do rerolls though), so the immortal builds are out.

If anyone are still with me here, I'd like some input on how to go about this with very limited points, as obviously the stardrake takes a huge chunk of the limited points.

For my 1200 baseline I am considering these options:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
2 x Concussors (240)
2 x Concussors (240)
Total: 1180 / 1250
OR 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Tempest Axe
Knight-Incantor (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
2 x Concussors (240)
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180)

I am allowed to change the type of drake if I go into higher points, but I also like the idea of having the same guy as my general through it all, although you could always say he was fighting in a different way I guess.

Stormhost is difficult, without artifacts in the picture I am also heavily considering Knights Excelsior (also close to my paint scheme), mostly due to the command trait which is +1 damage on all the generals melee weapons against heroes. My logic here is that this trait allows the general to actually fight other heroes, especially stuff like Keepers and bosses on manglers and such. If I kill anything reroll 1s to hit the rest of the game is nice enough, although the command ability is terrible.

Anvils could also be good, with so many points invested in 1 model in a small game, having that model potentially fight more often for 1 CP can be a huge deal by itself.

I apologize for the long rant, but perhaps some might find it interesting to really look at these units under very tight restrictions to analyze what really shines when.

 

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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I will attend a weekend spanning event of 30 people and 5 teams, all moving around  large interactive map on a projector screen, with fights taking place on the tabletop of course, sort of like a narrative warhammer mixed with settlers and risk metagame on top.

It is still a competetion, but there is also some narrative considerations and backstory to come up with along with crazy things that can happen, like fights player team mates reinforcing with their armies in real time, so a fight can become a 2v1 or 2v2 etc. Battleplans are completely custom made as well.

I first considered playing my bonereapers, but I also want to make friends, so instead I am heavily considering bringing some bombastic general on a dragon to lean in on the heroic narrative. There are also some interesting restrictions and extra rules:

Points start at 1200, but can be increased by 150-200 depending on conquering territory, which is divided within the teams. Most of the time a list will probably be around the 1350 mark, you can add and remove units but it incurs af timeout penalty. NO artifacts allowed, custom artifacts can be gained during the campaign, but as such these can not be taken into account and can be ignored when chosing stormhosts.

An important restriction is also Natural save rolls of 1 AND 2 always fails (can still do rerolls though), so the immortal builds are out.

If anyone are still with me here, I'd like some input on how to go about this with very limited points, as obviously the stardrake takes a huge chunk of the limited points.

For my 1200 baseline I am considering these options:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
2 x Concussors (240)
2 x Concussors (240)
Total: 1180 / 1250
OR 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Tempest Axe
Knight-Incantor (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
2 x Concussors (240)
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180)

I am allowed to change the type of drake if I go into higher points, but I also like the idea of having the same guy as my general through it all, although you could always say he was fighting in a different way I guess.

Stormhost is difficult, without artifacts in the picture I am also heavily considering Knights Excelsior (also close to my paint scheme), mostly due to the command trait which is +1 damage on all the generals melee weapons against heroes. My logic here is that this trait allows the general to actually fight other heroes, especially stuff like Keepers and bosses on manglers and such. If I kill anything reroll 1s to hit the rest of the game is nice enough, although the command ability is terrible.

Anvils could also be good, with so many points invested in 1 model in a small game, having that model potentially fight more often for 1 CP can be a huge deal by itself.

I apologize for the long rant, but perhaps some might find it interesting to really look at these units under very tight restrictions to analyze what really shines when.

 

Interesting event! In the 2nd list I assume you'd give Stormwinged to the Templar?

I like the 2nd list because I've found that, when the 1+ rr1 immortal drake combo is messed with, Tempest Axe starts to become a nice alternate choice for melee survivability. I also like Incantors - I'll miss them on Saturday. You're still able to get a nearly immortal drake here because it's not just the high save but it's the castellant healing (if you take a castellant) that makes him immortal.

Stormhost wise, without the artefact penalty, now might be the time for you to take one of the lesser taken hosts. I like Astral Templars and Celestial Warbringers on paper

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1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Interesting event! In the 2nd list I assume you'd give Stormwinged to the Templar?

I like the 2nd list because I've found that, when the 1+ rr1 immortal drake combo is messed with, Tempest Axe starts to become a nice alternate choice for melee survivability. I also like Incantors - I'll miss them on Saturday. You're still able to get a nearly immortal drake here because it's not just the high save but it's the castellant healing (if you take a castellant) that makes him immortal.

Stormhost wise, without the artefact penalty, now might be the time for you to take one of the lesser taken hosts. I like Astral Templars and Celestial Warbringers on paper

I could get in a castellant when I go above 1200, although at the cost of more bodies on the ground. For the 2nd list an option is also to replace the incantor with a relictor and turn the paladors into more concussors to capitalize on the +1 to hit from the drakesworns bow hits, but I lose some dispelling power, but prayers + MW or healing from the relictor is also pretty good.

A drakesworn with axes will only dish out 3,7 damage with melee weapons on average vs a 4+ save, however that becomes 6,3 vs a 4+ as knights excelsior due to +1 dmg to all melee weapons against heroes (so also the drake claws), it seems to fill a niche where I might be lacking and also likely to have an enemy hero monster go after my drake. With 0-1 behemoth limit Astral templars will be less beneficial in this case I think. Vindicators are not a bad catch all choice, yet just picking Staunch is never a bad idea either... decisions decisions...

The celestial warbringer are also interesting indeed, being able to relocate d3 units after knowing who gets first turn is rather powerful, so even in a worst case scenario I can ensure my stardrake is located at an optimal position and the trait is not too bad either, that one save reroll might be what saves that 3 damage wound after all. With this I would get the list with the incantor and with more points maybe look into a comet, with dragon within 18" and 1 CP that would be +2 to cast.

 

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2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

With 0-1 behemoth limit Astral templars will be less beneficial in this case I think. Vindicators are not a bad catch all choice, yet just picking Staunch is never a bad idea either... decisions decisions...

The celestial warbringer are also interesting indeed, being able to relocate d3 units after knowing who gets first turn is rather powerful, so even in a worst case scenario I can ensure my stardrake is located at an optimal position and the trait is not too bad either, that one save reroll might be what saves that 3 damage wound after all. With this I would get the list with the incantor and with more points maybe look into a comet, with dragon within 18" and 1 CP that would be +2 to cast.

Yes you are right about Astral Templars in this case. CV are good but your save worsens only with the artefact - which you're not getting.

I think Celestial Warbringers might bring something really interesting to the table, especially in the format you've laid out for us.

I myself am testing non-staunch on Saturday and not having to worry about the charge when I am running scenarios through in my head  is kind of freeing!

That Petrifex get +1 army wide with no penalty is just so fantastic (to say nothing of "Bludgeon") - it was great meeting them yesterday.

Edited by Turragor
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3 minutes ago, Turragor said:

That Petrifex get +1 army wide with no penalty is just so fantastic (to say nothing of "Bludgeon") - it was great meeting them yesterday.

Yea that would be my other option to bring, as I just painted them up, but a lot of people are being grumpy about them, both some true and some misinformation, but they are the cool thing to hate, which is why I am hesitant to bring them outside a hyper competetive environment.

I even run through how a dragon list would go about dealing with 1200 pts of my own petrifex. 1200 would be something like a Kavalos, wizard/healer, 20 guards, 5 horsemen, a catapult and 3 stalkers. All with 3+ saves and access to +1 rend, which cuts through the drakes and dracoths like butter if they get the chance. In this matchup a drakesworn + incantor setup might be better than a celestant on drake alone, both for magic defense and added MW output. 

I feel adding a castellant is a bit underwhelming wihtout staunch as well, especially in lower point brackets where you can't make huge units such as 6 desolators or perhaps 1 big unit of liberators. Getting a castellant also means less models. Getting the drake to 2+ would still be good, as it still allows some healing despite the 1 and 2s natual saves failing, but it basically negates 1 value of rend instead which a lot of things have anyway.

Can't wait to hear your results without staunch and a bit more room for aggression!

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1 minute ago, Turragor said:

In the name of science I've grudged my first matchup - against the list that worries me most.

Enemy is:

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image.png.885b689aa6bdeac1d00408984140dc34.png

Starcast needs to work hard to beat this.

BUBUBUT STORMCAST IS TOO STRONK. STORMCAST CHEATS

6 Monsters on the table. Ok.

Edited by Maturin
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32 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

Beware the one with Metalcruncher. They all do decent MW's on the charge, but that one just gets to hit most of our army for D6 MW at start of combat.

Yes, tbh I can't think of a winning strat :) it's kind of self-flagelating haha I may tell my pal that I'll let the gods decide my fate instead 

First match is focal points so that favours him a lil too with everything so compact. 

Ill probably aim for double and deploy very deeply or split all forces. I will need the prime to be an assassin.. But the chip mw strat is put off with no discernable support chars and5+ ward saves. 

If I got prime into some near enough at the top of the double to charge and kill then activate heroes of another age and kill again then thats ONLY 4 left lol

Ill need to get a charge in against things I want taken out but be wary of the metal cruncher as you said. 

He has +1 wound on all, +2 move and charge (then hungry on top). 

Wondering how he'll trigger his mawpot with this list? 

Not confident! May abort :)

 

Edited by Turragor
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4 hours ago, Turragor said:

Yes, tbh I can't think of a winning strat :) it's kind of self-flagelating haha

First match is focal points so that favours him a lil too with everything so compact. 

Ill probably aim for double and deploy very deeply or split all forces. 

Ill need to get a charge in against things I want taken out but be wary of the metal cruncher as you said. 

He has +1 wound on all, +2 move and charge (then hungry on top). 

Wondering how he'll trigger his mawpot with this list? 

Not confident! 

I'd say apply maximum pressure to the same point. Make it so you face not more than 1000 points of his army with at least 1500 of yours. Basic tactical choices that always worked throughout history! Deploy on an edge, charge his flank ?

Edited by Maturin
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