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Turragor

Starcast - The Thread

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Starcast Lists (as of AoS 2.75: Winter 2019 Updates)

Traditional Starcast (with 10 Skinks)

My tip for beginning to dabble in Starcast lists

Kroakcast

My own tip for cutting edge Starcast  right now

Grand Convocation Starcast

I really like this but it's an acquired taste (and is pre-Kroak, I feel Kroakcast is  a better option now)

Starcast with 6 Desolators & Prime

Spoiler

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Castellant (120)
Celestant-Prime (340)
Knight-Incantor (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
6 x Desolators (600)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95

Starcast with 6 Desolators & Kroak

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord Kroak (320)
- Allies
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
6 x Desolators (600)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 94

Starkitties

Spoiler

Leaders
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95

Starcast with Ballistae

Spoiler

Leaders
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Artillery
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91

Finally ...

The list that started them all

This list lacks comet and double drake, but includes extra dracothian guard. It's not starcast but was the stepping stone to this point :P

More to come from community...

NB/Original Preamble/Thread starter on next page

 


I just came home from playing at "Europe's Biggest Tournament (when you take Brexit into account)" a.k.a. Krigsluntan 2019. I took Stormcast and a variation of it I've been playing a lot (last 3 or 4 tournaments) which I've tried different names for and I guess "Starcast" fits well enough.

There were over 90 players at the tournament which was AWESOME and The Honest Wargamer himself was there (amazing person) covering it. I got to play on stream (more on that later).

I finished in 42nd place with 3 wins and 2 losses. You can see the ladder (results, lists, etc) here. I wasn't the top SC player (secondary objectives taken into account) and that's expected as I wasn't the best SC player there! :D What was interesting was that better players took Anvilstrike and finished 3 for 2 as well. 

Given SC's meta win rate, each of us put in a great performance (the % doesn't account for lists though) and I just felt this topic could help thrash out those who want to either create their own "Starcast" list, refine one of the many I've posted or whatever.

In essence, these lists are "ranged, mortal wound heavy, low model count" lists. There seems to be an emerging evolution to lists born partly from "the activation wars" and partly from the kinds of lists CoS are able to cook up (lots of variety emerging). There is a tilt towards ranged which I guess will be built on in the new year with the rumoured Tzeentch / Kharardon releases.

Will a list in the Starcast mould still be good then? I dont know. I didn't meet Tzeentch and I'm glad for that at least (they were all Changehosts and they all did well I believe).

Here is the list I took:
 

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders

Celestant-Prime (340)

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)

- General

- Celestine Hammer

- Trait: Staunch Defender

Drakesworn Templar (460)

- Tempest Axe

- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet

- Mount Trait: Storm-winged

Lord-Castellant (120)

Lord-Exorcist (120)

- Spell: Azyrite Halo

Battleline

5 x Liberators (100)

- Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100)

- Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100)

- Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Wounds: 81

 

My own vision of what ranged mw stormcast should be has changed after this tournament but overall I felt the list worked well.

I got only 1 matchup against a list that I'd thought I would be happy to meet previously. The other 4 were against lists I didn't want to meet. One in particular was in effect the counter to what my own list brings. I had good luck, I had bad, but now I want to stop typing about my list at that big Swe tourney and I want to start pasting in weird Starcast lists here (even if I end up talking to myself)!

Edited by Turragor
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Some post tournament thoughts:

I need a few extra screening bodies

Preferably units ready to deepstrike for objectives battle round 3 - 5. The best way to play Starcast is very aggressive r1 or very standoffish (reach is no issue for you).

The Celestant Prime dies very quickly

Most of this is just down to me. I've got good with the Prime but still, the scroll is so unforgiving. In that way, 2 dragons and a prime play well as a trio. Without a cold head or luck, spread wounds won't do the trick and comets will keep falling. This model is both very over-costed and a bargain. I dunno. The more you play the Prime the more you get out of it. Should still be buffed (survivability wise).

The Drakesworn Templar underperformed

Part of this is just down to me I feel. 2 x Rain of Stars is beautiful but it is very much a lottery. The LCoSD compensates by going in and reflecting mortal wounds against hordes (and even adding the extra melee finisher on, say, a Hallowheart Hurricanum that will take maybe 3-4 mw per shooting phase but then searing wounds them away). The Templar's lack of a rr1 save and having only 1 warding lantern/Azyrite Halo cast means you're paying a lot for rain of stars only. No Dracoths, no tasty +1 hit either.

It DOES play on people's minds though. Like a distraction carnifex.

Liberators do nothing

Our "pure" battleline options are no Mortek guard, they are not a viable screen (I've to measure complex angles and arcane shapes that best restrict 9" to board edge ambushes) and while you can deepstrike them as a roadblock you're throwing away the dudes that will be taking and holding objectives (until 6 models get in 6" range...)

I want a SC allegiance chaff unit!

GKoTGs are of particular concern

Yes, the only list I met I felt was a real "counter" was a juicy FeC list where I had to play so cautious so as not to be eaten by whatever attack boosted bite count the opponent managed to get (7 bites at one point, or 8 maybe).  The long range mw chip damage is negated by the support hero d3 healing here.

Nurgle would also be a counter of sorts but has no punch unless it's monks with blades and the LCoSD laughs at monks without blades (which brings me to my next point)...

The Lord-Exorcist doesn't cut it

Knight-Incantors are worth so much more than 20 pts more. Auto-unbind is the business (unbind hallowheart ranged bridge or spellportal, unbind the run and charge on Gotrek, unbind sear wounds if you like). More than one is ace.

And finally...

Run away from Gotrek

I'll be giving a thought to some changes now but quick thoughts taken into account directly results in:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Speed of Lightning
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Tree-Revenants (160)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

 

Worth a try?

 

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6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Why don‘t you ally a block of Corsairs as screens?

I am open to all suggestions for screening units! What I would like is for the unit to have utility beyond screening for when I don't need to screen so much. I kinda like the revenants teleport. 

Shadow warriors also look like a good choice but if I need to screen then they don't ambush and aren't a late game objective threat like revenants. 

Skinks are also a classic option. 

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Corsairs can shoot (a little). In case of a Part-Time-Screen I guess Mass of Models is key (objectives), so I‘d go for either skinks (Bravery 10!) or Corsairs (they‘re rather meh xD)

Edited by JackStreicher
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8 hours ago, Turragor said:

I am open to all suggestions for screening units! What I would like is for the unit to have utility beyond screening for when I don't need to screen so much. I kinda like the revenants teleport. 

Shadow warriors also look like a good choice but if I need to screen then they don't ambush and aren't a late game objective threat like revenants. 

Skinks are also a classic option. 

Arkanauts? Good shooting threat with skyhooks.

But for cheap and reliable it's skinks all the way. High movement, retreat shenanigans and even some tiny ranged threat with boltspitters.

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The arkanauts are quite a good shout. Guess I've to buy and paint a range of order units under 160 :)

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Another thought - for pure zoning, 90 points gets you 10 saurus warriors on 32mm bases. Are they the cheapest order battleline on 32's?

Regarding the Stardrake, I always feel as if I need to include a relictor with Divine Light these days to bypass all those pesky 6's do mortals effects.

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17 hours ago, Turragor said:

- Mount Trait: Storm-winged

Did you annoy the sh*t out of people with the trait? ( Movement, charge and then during pile in ) If so how did they take it?

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It was pretty competitive so everyone at mid tables and up had some flavour of ****** in their lists :)

Ofc some flavours were stronger or a more acquired taste :)

Stormwing didn't have a huge impact as I'm still learning how to run two drakes at once. 

It's like when your 2nd child arrives. The tricks that work when you've just one need adapted ;)

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26 minutes ago, AdamR said:

Another thought - for pure zoning, 90 points gets you 10 saurus warriors on 32mm bases. Are they the cheapest order battleline on 32's?

Regarding the Stardrake, I always feel as if I need to include a relictor with Divine Light these days to bypass all those pesky 6's do mortals effects.

I'm thinking relictor or even trying to stretch a caster with a spell that heals. If I end up with enough casters I wonder can I create a kind of starfall hallowheart 

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I'm thinking of testing 3 things :

Dropping prime and exorcist and taking 3 incantors

Taking no prime and only 1 dragon but then also Grand convocation 

A minor, fun idea : my list unchanged but the templar has hydroxskin cloak combod with Stormwing

Any thoughts? 

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2 hours ago, Turragor said:

Dropping prime and exorcist and taking 3 incantors

 

Taking no prime and only 1 dragon but then also Grand convocation 

A minor, fun idea : my list unchanged but the templar has hydroxskin cloak combod with Stormwing

Any thoughts? 

1) Why not play Hallowheart if you want to invest so much in magic ? Plus except Comet, the other spells don't cut it, offensively speaking (though the tornado one is nice against gun armies).

2) Grand convocation ? Usually, evocators are played as counter charge or offensively, right ? So if you go for grand convo, are you going to play those seq and evos as pure objectives grabbers ? It's very expensive for what they do.

3) Stormwing can only target one unit, right ? Would'nt it be a bite of waste to take an artifact that would just be of use to do D3 MW to one unit ?

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10 minutes ago, Maturin said:

1) Why not play Hallowheart if you want to invest so much in magic ? Plus except Comet, the other spells don't cut it, offensively speaking (though the tornado one is nice against gun armies).

2) Grand convocation ? Usually, evocators are played as counter charge or offensively, right ? So if you go for grand convo, are you going to play those seq and evos as pure objectives grabbers ? It's very expensive for what they do.

3) Stormwing can only target one unit, right ? Would'nt it be a bite of waste to take an artifact that would just be of use to do D3 MW to one unit ?

1) Incantors guaranteed unbinds are something I missed a lot. I need to free up 20 pts to take even 1 (swapping exorcist). And there are literally (skipping battleline) only things that augment the list's purpose left - rain of stars, rain of stars, comet, Prime (comet and orrery).

I like that Hallowheart is similar to a Starcast type list. I am not sure I want to play Hallowheart. I think you're on the money saying it's investing in magic quite heavily and I don't think that's what we should do. 

I'd be buying a new army &  I could just get Changehost or Nagash in a suitable magic heavy death build.  More importantly rumours indicate Tzeentch getting an impending rework early next year. Working on a magic army when the king of magic is on the way feels foolish.

I also played Hallowheart twice and  we have a list here that Hallowheart does not want to meet. They need to take r1 if we deploy to indicate we're going to open up on them r1. We can split deployment on the board (no need to bunker) to avoid their portal spam or leave targets in the celestial realm (meaning they'd be wasting r1.

We can then come down and scorch in the shooting phase with comets on their casting bunker.  The main problem we face is deploying incorrectly (and they take first turn) and leaving a caster on the board to start with in case they give us t1. Risk missing 1 turn of comet.

2) I think I'm leaning away from it. It seemed like the neatest, cheapest way to get another artefact but you end up warping the purpose of the list too much.

3) I'm not sure what you mean, Stormwing is pick one unit roll 2+ do d3 mortal wounds (move, charge, pile in) and hydroxskin is pick one unit roll 3+ do d3 mortal wounds (move, charge, pile in). I thought it might be an ace boost to melee drake. It's potentially 4 d3 mortal wounds before activation 2 d3 upon every activation (pile in). Could even retreat bomb.

Although, yes, it's another "gimick" :D I still feel like I didn't get a lot of use out of ethereal really, that drake still died faster than LCoSD with rr1*.  Also if I have something that can actually do some guaranteed damage I might be able to drop the prime (whom I love but he is so unforgiving!) freeing up all sorts of alternate builds.

*Incidentally I also like the idea of Talisman of the Watcher with a fast support hero to give the Templar rr 1s. That artefact looks like it has been overlooked by many. I like it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Turragor said:

1) I also played Hallowheart twice and  we have a list here that Hallowheart does not want to meet. They need to take r1 if we deploy to indicate we're going to open up on them r1. We can split deployment on the board (no need to bunker) to avoid their portal spam or leave targets in the celestial realm (meaning they'd be wasting r1.

3) I'm not sure what you mean, Stormwing is pick one unit roll 2+ do d3 mortal wounds (move, charge, pile in) and hydroxskin is pick one unit roll 3+ do d3 mortal wounds (move, charge, pile in). I thought it might be an ace boost to melee drake. It's potentially 4 d3 mortal wounds before activation 2 d3 upon every activation (pile in). Could even retreat bomb.

*Incidentally I also like the idea of Talisman of the Watcher with a fast support hero to give the Templar rr 1s. That artefact looks like it has been overlooked by many. I like it.

 

1) What list is it that Hallowheart could fear ? I played hallowheart against IJ, he charged hiw cabage and 6 gore guntas in my PG bunker, nuked my2*10 handgunners, he got chopped by my PG and magic. Turn 2 he gave up.

3) I mixed Hydroxskin and thermalrider cloak in my head. But Hydroxskin is just on movement phase anyway, or am I wrong ?

Talisman would be nice, but it does require that nobody comes for it's wearer ...

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Hallowheart doesn't like my list :D

Re: Hydroxskin, it's the same wording as stormwing - when the model moves

Agree on Talisman. Could be better in a shootcast list tbh...

We do so lack cheap battalions to get an extra artefact when we take a stormhost.

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27 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Hallowheart doesn't like my list :D

I'm going to play against a Greywater fastness one at 1750. I'm thinking about either devising a reduced version of yours or do a mix of Skyborne slayers and yours or raptors :)

If you get firs turn and can alpha strike hard against a castling list, you're golden ;)

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On 11/24/2019 at 11:11 PM, Turragor said:

Preferably units ready to deepstrike for objectives battle round

Skinks.

Anyway overall judgement on your list.

Incantor in this list is not usefull if you don't play endless spells (one for each mage, cause you waste 140 for just dispell). So go for 2 of them and 2 endless spells. Geminds can be an idea.

Prime: totally useless in this set up. You have to much points in heroes already.

Liberators are not that usefull. As long as you play endless spells/comet try out judicators to kill opponents heroes. Plus, dragon without shardfist pelt is not worthy his points. (losing from hard mw based lists is better losing againt everyone).

In the end I would insert skinks for mass/screen.

 

Edited by Raffonerd

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2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

Skinks.

Anyway overall judgement on your list.

Incantor in this list is not usefull if you don't play endless spells (one for each mage, cause you waste 140 for just dispell). So go for 2 of them and 2 endless spells. Geminds can be an idea.

Prime: totally useless in this set up. You have to much points in heroes already.

Liberators are not that usefull. As long as you play endless spells/comet try out judicators to kill opponents heroes. Plus, dragon without shardfist pelt is not worthy his points. (losing from hard mw based lists is better losing againt everyone).

In the end I would insert skinks for mass/screen.

 

Thanks for feedback.

I've tried skinks with a list like this and I think I need to get better with their idiosyncrasies.

I like them and am really honing in on them or tree revenants.

Don't 100% agree with a few points :

I think the incantor is a fantastic warscroll. Not just for the dispel. They can hold their own against small units the enemy takes to clear objectives. I love flasks too. Sc have some decent spells in their lore. I wouldn't necessarily take another endless spell. Im not against taking Geminids though! 

Prime is great for guaranteed clutch 3 mw in shooting phase. It is an expensive model and unforgiving. If I can gather enough alternative sources of mw (say max 9 average 3) then it might be better long term. So long as those options give other utility too (not like day a vexillor). Nearest is probably the Heraldor but the 3 mws then rely on terrain, the skill of your opponent and its d3. 

In my experience being able to choose to do 3 mw is huge. 

I don't rate Judicators when compared to other ranged options out there. They are better than libs for objective holding AND contribution via a few shots here and there. It's just a points question. 

Stardrakes without shardfist pelt are still good. It's mainly that no dragon choice is worth 460 - 560 pts. 

I still want to take them because we have no purely points efficient list to take. No mortek guard here. 

Anvilstrike with hurricane raptors MIGHT be the nearest thing but I'm going to keep in with starcast a while longer. 

I feel I've a lot to learn with the list still and would honestly just like to try it against the factions it hasn't met yet. 

No point in running a list for a few games or one tournament, losing and thinking "I need something that goes 4 for 1 or 5 for 0". 

I don't think there's a list in sc that does that by itself. A player just had to stick it out with one of our best choices. I think starcast might be one of them but to know that I'd have to run it until I play 5 decent match ups against decent opponents, make no glaring mistakes and still not go 4 for 1.

That's until we get more detailed international stats with list "types" factored in.  SC have a, what 43% win rate using honest wargamers stats. I've a 75% win rate at tournaments (of various sizes).

The lists and experiences of each player contributing there is unknown so those two percentages may as well be 101% versus AB%.

Sorry for waffling :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Turragor

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8 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Thanks for feedback.

I've tried skinks with a list like this and I think I need to get better with their idiosyncrasies.

I like them and am really honing in on them or tree revenants.

Don't 100% agree with a few points :

I think the incantor is a fantastic warscroll. Not just for the dispel. They can hold their own against small units the enemy takes to clear objectives. I love flasks too. Sc have some decent spells in their lore. I wouldn't necessarily take another endless spell. Im not against taking Geminids though! 

Prime is great for guaranteed clutch 3 mw in shooting phase. It is an expensive model and unforgiving. If I can gather enough alternative sources of mw (say max 9 average 3) then it might be better long term. So long as those options give other utility too (not like day a vexillor). Nearest is probably the Heraldor but the 3 mws then rely on terrain, the skill of your opponent and its d3. 

In my experience being able to choose to do 3 mw is huge. 

I don't rate Judicators when compared to other ranged options out there. They are better than libs for objective holding AND contribution via a few shots here and there. It's just a points question. 

Stardrakes without shardfist pelt are still good. It's mainly that no dragon choice is worth 460 - 560 pts. 

I still want to take them because we have no purely points efficient list to take. No mortek guard here. 

Anvilstrike with hurricane raptors MIGHT be the nearest thing but I'm going to keep in with starcast a while longer. 

I feel I've a lot to learn with the list still and would honestly just like to try it against the factions it hasn't met yet. 

No point in running a list for a few games or one tournament, losing and thinking "I need something that goes 4 for 1 or 5 for 0". 

I don't think there's a list in sc that does that by itself. A player just had to stick it out with one of our best choices. I think starcast might be one of them but to know that I'd have to run it until I play 5 decent match ups against decent opponents, make no glaring mistakes and still not go 4 for 1.

That's until we get more detailed international stats with list "types" factored in.  SC have a, what 43% win rate using honest wargamers stats. I've a 75% win rate at tournaments (of various sizes).

The lists and experiences of each player contributing there is unknown so those two percentages may as well be 101% versus AB%.

Sorry for waffling :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem that I see it that your list has no clue. :)

You play a defensive item on the dragon with 30 models on the field. Which means that every unit can engage it without problems and overrun your objectives. (you autolose in buring objective missions). If you run pelt they must disengage (if they don't get killed directly with pail in). This means that you get space on the map to control the field/ he needs to play defensively. Also you need heraldor or you don't stand a chance in engaging first turn.

Second point: if you don't destroy heroes within 6 before combat phase, big units will die by hitting the dragon. This also makes them bshock and will balance the "low models list" that you have. That's you need comet, another endless + judicators for ensure the  kill.

If you don't start threaten your opponent you are going to lose everygame.

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31 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

The problem that I see it that your list has no clue. :)

You play a defensive item on the dragon with 30 models on the field. Which means that every unit can engage it without problems and overrun your objectives. (you autolose in buring objective missions). If you run pelt they must disengage (if they don't get killed directly with pail in). This means that you get space on the map to control the field/ he needs to play defensively. Also you need heraldor or you don't stand a chance in engaging first turn.

Second point: if you don't destroy heroes within 6 before combat phase, big units will die by hitting the dragon. This also makes them bshock and will balance the "low models list" that you have. That's you need comet, another endless + judicators for ensure the  kill.

If you don't start threaten your opponent you are going to lose everygame.

I think you dont understand how this list work...

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1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

 

If you don't start threaten your opponent you are going to lose everygame.

That level of hyperbole actually makes my brain hurt...

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23 hours ago, AdamR said:

Hydroxskin got faq'd to normal move iirc.

Thanks for that! I'll double check it. 

/Edit/

Can confirm:

Page 81 – Artefacts of Power, Relics of Chamon, Hydroxskin Cloak Change the rules text to: ‘The bearer can fly. After the bearer has made a normal move, you can pick 1 unit that has any models that the bearer has passed across and roll a dice. On a 3+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.’

&

Page 84 – Artefacts of Power, Relics of Ulgu, Talisman of the Watcher Change the last sentence to: ‘You can re-roll save rolls of 1 for that unit until the end of that phase.’

Edited by Turragor

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1 hour ago, AdamR said:

That level of hyperbole actually makes my brain hurt...

I mean im a bit confused by some of his post there but in essence I think this is exactly what my list does, regardless of range, cover, look out sir, hit modifiers, buffs (well most) if you give me r1 you will lose all non behemoth support heroes. 

That's the definition of threaten! 

My main issue is when I'm out dropped. I've to figure out the right mind game deployment to make them give me 1st turn or make them take t1 but have no impact. 

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