Tempest Eye Discussion

[The_Baron]

Hello guys, just pulled together an idea for a 1,000pts full-dwarfs list with a small support from Kharadrons and Gyrocopters.

My idea is to be highly mobile and pose a threat to  heroes and hordes with Gyros and Gunhaulers+Balloons (also objective grabbers). Gyros could be very deadly in the first turn: running with a +4" (Outriders of the Realms + Alert and forewarned) would result in an average 23" movement, and with a 3x 2+  1D3 mortal wounds could be sufficient to kill a small hero. With a bit of luck, Gunhaulers and Balloons could do the same, while grabbing an objective.

On foot, IB and Hammerers are the classic anvil/hammer, screening also the Irondrakes, who are a threat for every type of unit by themselves. With Patrician Elm, these dwarfs won't go anywhere until killed on by one (3+ or 4+ save and 6+ ward with Runelord's prayer if needed).

Maybe it's not very competitive but it looks funny to play to me. What do you think? Could it be viable?

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Warden King (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Runelord (90)
- City Role: General's Adjutant

Battleline
10 x Ironbreakers (110)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Irondrakes (150)
10 x Hammerers (140)

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
3 x Skywardens (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
3 x Gyrocopters (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 68
 

 

 

 

[Frowny]

I finally tried the thing I was wondering about- retreat+charge pistoliers + no pile in sharks. And it was indeed excellent. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Leaders
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- Genera
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
Celestial Hurricanum w/ Battlemage (280)
- Strike of Eagles

Battleline
10 x Pistoliers (200) 10 x Pistoliers (200) 10 x Pistoliers (200) 5 x Pistoliers (100) 5 x Pistoliers (100)

Units
3 x Alopex (330)
- Main Gun: Net Launcher
2 x Gyrocopters (140)

Battalion (140)
Total: 2000 / 2000

I was playing against a not-that-competitive cities of sigmar dark elf army- 30x darkshards with the battalion for +1 shot, 10 blood stalkers, 20x executioners, 20x black guard, 10x darkspears, 10x black guard 2x sorceresses, one on dragon and 5x harpies 

With 4 drops, I got first turn if I wanted it. I deployed the 2x5 man pistoliers units in the front, the 10 man units shortly behind. The sharks and griffons were oward one flank and the hurricanum was in the middle hiding in a woods. With an 18 inch deployment zone and a lot of shooting on his side of the board, I figured Id either need to get in and minimize his options or hang way back not to loose to much. I chose the former. I moved most of the army up. The sharks prevented pile in on the 2x 20 man dark elf units. The small pistolier quads shot their way through a screen and were able to charge his 2 shooting units, one getting to his darkshards and the other his sisters and did a few wounds. One was also able to be 2.5 inches away from his black guard, who couldn't pile in. The griffon and 10x Pistoliers on the other flank killed 10 black guard and Most of the executioners, again using the fact that I could engage 2 inches away with the griffon and use his reach (and the fact that they also couldn't pile on) to get favorable engagements. 

On his turn, he shot free his darkshards and stalkers but otherwise was pinned and couldn't do much damage, with the 20 executioners still engaged.

He got the double turn and took several objectives with his harpies and darkspears, and finally did a bit of damage, shooting at my unengaged pistoliers, and doing 10 wounds to the griffon and a few more to the other 10 pistoliers. On my turn  I cleaned out those same objectives with my remaining pistoliers,  my sharks moved up and cleaned up his executioners, prevented the darkshards from piling in and I engaged them with a 2 random pistoliers. 

Now I got the double, finished off his sorceress on dragon and the gyrocpters+sharks ate his darkshards, leaving him with pretty much only the stalkers left. He conceded.

Thoughts:

It was exciting to see what the shark+pistolier combination could do if I were better.

His list wasn't the most competitive, and he deployed too far forward so my 15 inch turn 1 pistolier charge could do a lot of pinning and some damage. However, I also did a few things wrong-I was too conservative with my hurricanum worrying that it would get sniped, but instead it did nothing. I also kept my 2nd wave of pistoliers weirdly back. They either need to be FURTHER back so he couldn't shoot them, or they needed to move up so they could contribute if I got the turn on t2. They also weren't well positioned on my own objectives to protect them. I basically never benefitted from the +1 to hit either. 

Still the combination of suicidal pistoliers in 5s with sharks is excellent. They can shoot through a screen and then nicely engage something behind it. And when that thing can't pile in, they are stuck doing no damage. Even if they kill you on their turn, when they finally pile in, you've held them in position wonderfully and done OK damage on the way. The sharks are also relatively good in combat themselves. It was pretty trivial to engage something 2.5 inches away with the pistoliers, so it couldn't do any damage while still doing full damage myself (since much of it was in the shooting phase).

If I could do the list again, I would go -2 gyrocopters, -1 shark, +5 pistoliers, +5 outriders +3 aetherwings. I just needed more bodies to hold objectives. 2 nets seemed plenty to prevent pile-ins. I had included them since I was worried about big hordes with lots of wounds, since my overall damage output is low. But the sharks actually cover this pretty well, as bigger units are the most vulnerable to being unable to pile in.  The new shadowstalker warband also seems objectively powerful, although this list is so fast I'm not sure it needs it and being lower drops is solid. 

Mostly I realize that this list has potential, or something like it. The flexibility of all our troops is solid, with very directable flexible output. Quite vulnerable to -1 to hit though, since pretty much everything hits on 4s. The griffon command ability and hurricanum help, but both have their limitations (only melee attacks, expensive vulnerable pieces). 

[Doko]

Sems aos 3 gonna bring the stupid idea of prevent pile in to many armys,every idoneth new buffs from br morathi are stupids and i dont get how they arent faqed lol.

Glad that you are having fun with yours horses

[Grugg]

Hi all, quick rules question.

I am building a steam tank based Tempest Eye force.

Having the tank commander as general unlocks tanks as battle line. So do they retain the behemoth keyword and the restrictions?

I want S tank commander, 3 S tanks, and a hurricanum but this brings me to 5 behemoths so would need to drop 1 tank.

 

Thanks

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Grugg said:

Hi all, quick rules question.

I am building a steam tank based Tempest Eye force.

Having the tank commander as general unlocks tanks as battle line. So do they retain the behemoth keyword and the restrictions?

I want S tank commander, 3 S tanks, and a hurricanum but this brings me to 5 behemoths so would need to drop 1 tank.

 

Thanks

I remember them losing the behemoth and restriction.

Edit: checked on warscroll builder, and when the steam tank commander is general, the regular taks lose behemoth.

Edited March 21, 2021 by zilberfrid

[Grugg]

8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I remember them losing the behemoth and restriction.

Edit: checked on warscroll builder, and when the steam tank commander is general, the regular taks lose behemoth.

Cheers zilb, I had a look and you're correct.

The reason I was asking is that in the army book it doesn't say anything to that effect. Just 'becomes battle line'.

Is there a general rule in the core rules that says that if a unit becomes battleline it loses other designations? Or maybe in an FAQ?

Seems a bit of an oversight not to include the rules clarification in the army books.

[dekay]

51 minutes ago, Grugg said:

Is there a general rule in the core rules that says that if a unit becomes battleline it loses other designations? Or maybe in an FAQ?

Seems a bit of an oversight not to include the rules clarification in the army books.

It has been faqed for the general rules, not only CoS. When Behemoths become battleline, they don't take up a behemoth slot (but a word of warning, tanks, as cool as they are, are not all that good when taken in large numbers. It does look good on the table though.)

[zilberfrid]

4 hours ago, Grugg said:

Cheers zilb, I had a look and you're correct.

The reason I was asking is that in the army book it doesn't say anything to that effect. Just 'becomes battle line'.

Is there a general rule in the core rules that says that if a unit becomes battleline it loses other designations? Or maybe in an FAQ?

Seems a bit of an oversight not to include the rules clarification in the army books.

It has been added to the core rules. It seems GW expected us to just understand that.

Steam tanks are hard to use though, if you do want more of them, can I recommend a few of them under armoured balloons as Kharadron Gunhaulers?

Still has a cannon, still mechanical, but rules-wise quite a bit easier to use.

Before I dropped out of AoS, I had an idea to use Endless Spells as "balloons" over some ships to indicate Tempest's Eye technomagisters taking to the sky powered by chained endless magic, which could fuel your ideas.

If you want the Gunhaulers themselves (and, well, they are awesome) or just for their balloons; due to them being in lots of sets they can be quite cheap on ebay.

Even with that, AoS is an objective based game, so you need stuff to get somewhere quickly and hold that with more numbers than the opponent, which is hard to do with single entities.

[Grugg]

Zib, decay thanks for the replies.

Yea I can see from the warsrcoll it would be better to use something other than steamtanks!

Last year I got a 3d printer and have been printing up my cities army. I found some files I really like for the tanks and thought why not? I understand it will be a bit lack-luster rules wise but it's pretty cheap to print (only a few quid per tank) and it's a low model count army (by cities standards - no horses of dwarves, freeguild, or pistoliers.... Yet!!)

So fingers crossed I can get the army printed, painted and based for when my area is allowed to game in person again (fingers crossed should be about a month or so).

 

I appreciate the gunhauler suggestion, and I managed to get one cheap on ebay.

 

Thoughts on the following list? I'm not trying to be too competitive with this. Happy to mess around with units if people have good suggestions... But gonna stick with the core tank spam for now!

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye

Leaders
Steam Tank with Commander (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Eagles: Strike of Eagles
Knight-Azyros (100)

Battleline
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
Steam Tank (180)
Steam Tank (180)
Steam Tank (180)

Units
20 x Irondrakes (300)
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

[zilberfrid]

39 minutes ago, Grugg said:

Zib, decay thanks for the replies.

Yea I can see from the warsrcoll it would be better to use something other than steamtanks!

Last year I got a 3d printer and have been printing up my cities army. I found some files I really like for the tanks and thought why not? I understand it will be a bit lack-luster rules wise but it's pretty cheap to print (only a few quid per tank) and it's a low model count army (by cities standards - no horses of dwarves, freeguild, or pistoliers.... Yet!!)

So fingers crossed I can get the army printed, painted and based for when my area is allowed to game in person again (fingers crossed should be about a month or so).

 

I appreciate the gunhauler suggestion, and I managed to get one cheap on ebay.

 

Thoughts on the following list? I'm not trying to be too competitive with this. Happy to mess around with units if people have good suggestions... But gonna stick with the core tank spam for now!
 

I think this will have some options, but instead of slamming the pistoleers into the enemy, perhaps keep them away a bit as objective holders. And maybe Outriders will fulfill that spot just a bit better wih their longer range?

Also, those outriders/pistoleers could easily be the steampunk Halfling equivalent of Grot tanks! Fun little creations that might fit your mechanized core better.

With a printer and some creativity, you could pump out quite a few of those per print!

There are also quite a few mechanical animals available, like one I printed before:

While this looks too modern for many armies, something less techy can be found, and could tie your dudes together quite nicely.

Edited March 23, 2021 by zilberfrid

[Frowny]

The adeptus mechanicus dogs would also make for very good mechanical horses if you want to go that route.

[zilberfrid]

5 minutes ago, Frowny said:

The adeptus mechanicus dogs would also make for very good mechanical horses if you want to go that route.

Correct, but do note they are quite pricy, about 3* the price of Pistoleers.

Though you might be able to kitbash a lot with regular horses, making it so the metal underneath is the true form with its horse skin ripping to reveal that.

[Frowny]

Yup price is what stopped me from doing it too.

Another idea is that most of the old horses are pretty armoredand could easily be mechanical underneath. Just replacing the legs with any robotic type leg would look very convincing as well. I think the rust stalkers have promising legs.

[Icefighter]

Hey, is there any decent list based on:

Freeguild greatswords

Freeguild handgunners

Freeguild guards

Hammerers

Any heroes that would compliment this list?

I have zero knowledge about synergies in CoS armies etc.

Thanks!

[Popisdead]

Those were quite popular early in the release?  did you search through this thread?

[Icefighter]

Yeah but there seems to be alot of different lists. Im having a hard time figuring out what works together. Id love some examples of ways to build the army, strengths/weaknesses etc.

For example, is there any clear cut units only used for screening, what are my options? What heroes goes well with what units etc.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Icefighter

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, Icefighter said:

Yeah but there seems to be alot of different lists. Im having a hard time figuring out what works together. Id love some examples of ways to build the army, strengths/weaknesses etc.

For example, is there any clear cut units only used for screening, what are my options? What heroes goes well with what units etc.

Screening in CoS is hard to come by.  We don't have Ungors

I would recommend compiling the lists, reading the warscrolls and seeing how they work together and what they do.  

I play Wanderers in TE so my experience of Freeguild is limited however I recall Freeguild being the better choices for TE.  Hurricanums, FG Generals, FG ranged units, the city's cmd ability.  

[Icefighter]

Alright this is my idea for a 1500 list.

Leaders

Hurricanum with battlemage

Runelord

Warden king 

Units

30 hammerers

10 longbeards with shield

30 darkshards 

20 freeguild guard with shield

2 gyrocopters

My idea is that the freeguild guards and longbeards will screen for the darkshards and hammerers, gyrocopters for objectives and hord-killers.

Could this work or is there any obvious bad picks/other options?

I only play casual games, but i also dont want to invest time/money in a bad list.

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Icefighter said:

Alright this is my idea for a 1500 list.

Leaders

Hurricanum with battlemage

Runelord

Warden king 

Units

30 hammerers

10 longbeards with shield

30 darkshards 

20 freeguild guard with shield

2 gyrocopters

My idea is that the freeguild guards and longbeards will screen for the darkshards and hammerers, gyrocopters for objectives and hord-killers.

Could this work or is there any obvious bad picks/other options?

I only play casual games, but i also dont want to invest time/money in a bad list.

I would put the Gyro's to three if you can kitbash that together (you probably have enough spare bits in the two gyro's.

This means outright deleting a unit even outside of the Hurricanum's range (5-6 save units).

One thing I could see going poorly is if the opponent brings quite a few different threats, and the Darkshards can only attack one unit, or if it's hard to get every Darkshard in the Hurricanum's Aura.

I'd probably change the Darkshards to Handgunners with clippers and tube (don't buy the real handgunners, they are awful, though Skitarii Rangers are popular handgunner choices) and make them three units of 10 with a long gun.

Longbeards are brilliant in small units, and your Hammerers are also Longbeards.

One issue I could see it getting to objectives, even with your turn 1 speed

Alternatively, if you don't have a lot of stuff already, you could do something like this (assuming you like dwarves):

3x Greywater starter set

Longbeards

2x pistoleers

Celestial Hurricanum

Then make:

Warden King

Runelord (kitbashed from Warden King) 

Battlemage (not on Hurricanum)

3 Gyrocopters

10 Outriders

10 Outriders

20 Irondrakes

20 Longbeards (Partly from the Ironbreakers)

Celestial Hurricanum.

This means you'll have three Cogsmiths and a Warden King spare, which would be quite good in a Kharadron splash.

 

Though do ask other people. I don't play.

Edited May 9, 2021 by zilberfrid

[Icefighter]

7 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I would put the Gyro's to three if you can kitbash that together (you probably have enough spare bits in the two gyro's.

This means outright deleting a unit even outside of the Hurricanum's range (5-6 save units).

One thing I could see going poorly is if the opponent brings quite a few different threats, and the Darkshards can only attack one unit, or if it's hard to get every Darkshard in the Hurricanum's Aura.

I'd probably change the Darkshards to Handgunners with clippers and tube (don't buy the real handgunners, they are awful, though Skitarii Rangers are popular handgunner choices) and make them three units of 10 with a long gun.

Longbeards are brilliant in small units, and your Hammerers are also Longbeards.

One issue I could see it getting to objectives, even with your turn 1 speed

Alternatively, if you don't have a lot of stuff already, you could do something like this (assuming you like dwarves):

3x Greywater starter set

Longbeards

2x pistoleers

Celestial Hurricanum

Then make:

Warden King

Runelord (kitbashed from Warden King) 

Battlemage (not on Hurricanum)

3 Gyrocopters

10 Outriders

10 Outriders

20 Irondrakes

20 Longbeards (Partly from the Ironbreakers)

Celestial Hurricanum.

This means you'll have three Cogsmiths and a Warden King spare, which would be quite good in a Kharadron splash.

 

Though do ask other people. I don't play.

The reason i included darkshards is because irondrakes seems very slow and I dont want to use soulbridge.

Maybe handgunners/pistoliers or grundstock Thunderers instead of the darkshards?

[zilberfrid]

18 minutes ago, Icefighter said:

The reason i included darkshards is because irondrakes seems very slow and I dont want to use soulbridge.

Maybe handgunners/pistoliers or grundstock Thunderers instead of the darkshards?

Darkshards are quick, that is true, but I wouldn't run them without a sorceress. With one? Absolutely worth it.

Handgunners really like having a General around, otherwise I go for Outriders for more mobility and better looking models (both are battleline).

Pistoleers are a melee unit that starts attacking at 9". Can be brutal, and I love them, but not long ranged enough to replace ranged units.

What aesthetic do you like most between the different options?

[Icefighter]

10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Darkshards are quick, that is true, but I wouldn't run them without a sorceress. With one? Absolutely worth it.

Handgunners really like having a General around, otherwise I go for Outriders for more mobility and better looking models (both are battleline).

Pistoleers are a melee unit that starts attacking at 9". Can be brutal, and I love them, but not long ranged enough to replace ranged units.

What aesthetic do you like most between the different options?

Hmm so option 1 would be to replace my ranged units with Outriders, wont my screening freeguild guard lose their purpose than?

Option 2 would be to remove the darkshards and add handgunners+ a freeguild general to my heroes?

[zilberfrid]

5 minutes ago, Icefighter said:

Hmm so option 1 would be to replace my ranged units with Outriders, wont my screening freeguild guard lose their purpose than?

Option 2 would be to remove the darkshards and add handgunners+ a freeguild general to my heroes?

You can make a viable build with Darkshards and a Sorceress, with Handgunners and a General or with Irondrakes and Runelord, even with unsupported Outriders, Sisters of Thorns or Dark Riders, you mostly have to decide what aesthetic you like more.

One option would be Aetherwind runners (half Pistoleers, half Outriders) with Hurricanum and 2x Arkanauts (for keeping objectives).

I also misremembered Darkshards, they are quite good unsupported, but the Sorceress really gets good if she gets to nom on some Darkshards.

Cities has so many options, so it's good to settle which models you like when choosing.

[Icefighter]

21 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

You can make a viable build with Darkshards and a Sorceress, with Handgunners and a General or with Irondrakes and Runelord, even with unsupported Outriders, Sisters of Thorns or Dark Riders, you mostly have to decide what aesthetic you like more.

One option would be Aetherwind runners (half Pistoleers, half Outriders) with Hurricanum and 2x Arkanauts (for keeping objectives).

I also misremembered Darkshards, they are quite good unsupported, but the Sorceress really gets good if she gets to nom on some Darkshards.

Cities has so many options, so it's good to settle which models you like when choosing.

I see, then i have some questions.

1. If I dont use irondrakes is there still a need for the Runelord?

2. How many horses do i need to replace the 30 darkshards? I like the idea of the horses in small numbers. How about adding 20 handgunners, a General and some pistoliers?

Edited May 10, 2021 by Icefighter

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Icefighter said:

I see, then i have some questions.

1. If I dont use irondrakes is there still a need for the Runelord?

2. How many horses do i need to replace the 30 darkshards? I like the idea of the horses in small numbers. How about adding 20 handgunners, a General and some pistoliers?

Darkshards do not translate that well to horsies, but I'd say about 15 Outriders (Handgunners do translate best to them) to the 30 Darkshards. Dark Riders don't translate too well, because they have 4+ save 14" move but very inaccurate shots.

There are people better at getting the most of Cities, but in essence, if you have a heavy shooting core, it's good to have a screen, if you're running around, that screen isn't that neccessary.

You could do things like Darks Riders (or even Darkspawn Knights, though that's a bit dangerous with mortal wound spam) with a Sisters of the Thorn companion for Aura of Glory, or Outriders with Hurricanum, and so on.

As long as you know how things interact, have ways to claim objectives and keep them, that's the goal of the game after all.

Next would be to diversify your win conditions (Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage general with artifact is good, but might be deleted in the first turn). 

Then, you have to balance between keeping opponents away from objectives and staying alive.

Cities has different tools to do so (even though some are more effective than others), so the primary driver, in my opinion, should be aesthetics. You're going to look at the army more than roll dice with them.

Edited May 10, 2021 by zilberfrid