AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[readercolin]

On 6/9/2020 at 12:09 PM, Popisdead said:

So unless I'm missing something, you can DS the Rangers, they charge and hit something.  Then at the start of combat pop the assassin out.   Is that the correct order?

Correct.  However, that does mean that at deployment you have to declare that he is hiding using the living city rules or his warscroll rules, and then he can only come out according to the rules you selected at the start of the game.  This means that if you use his warscroll rules, he cant be deployed at the board edge, and you can't use him to re-roll charges.

Nothing too difficult, but it can get a little finicky.

[Landohammer]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:03 AM, KydbrookP said:

Thanks so much for the response, really appreciated. Thinking this over, reckon I'll go heavier on crossbows and give them a freeguild general to buff (I think I prefer them to SotW because of range). In terms of combat, what do you find most efficient? I love the KH models, so could lose the bows and take six of them with Swords/Scythes, but am I hamstringing myself by not taking units that can shoot and move twice, like Desolators and Fulminators?

In terms of getting Hurricanum into the thick of it, I was thinking, as Popisdead just mentioned, of perhaps using a command point to move twice, so it could buff shooting units in that phase, then rush up to buff units fighting on objectives, like KH with swords (who could potentially have 6 attacks each with Wardroth Horn and Arch-R, hitting 2+ re-rolling 1s). It would be very vulnerable, but I imagine the KH would attract more incoming.

I think Fulminators and Concussors are really solid in Living City. I'm not a huge fan of Desolators since I don't plan on taking units larger than 2-4. Fulminators may have the superior warscroll but I actually prefer the Concussors because they can become insanely hard to deal with if they roll a 6 on their Lightning Hammers. Imagine clipping a horde of Witch Aelves and denying them a pile in. They become useless. 

The Arch Revenant makes Kurnoth Hunters even more fantastic than they already are (which is saying something!). My only issue is that most LC lists only have room for 2 Sylvaneth units. So the Arch Rev fills up your second slot but just ends up being just an extension of the hunters unit since he can't buff anything else.  Compare that to say a General, Sorceress, Runelord, or Nomad Prince which can usually buff their entire army. 

If I am going to heavily invest in Hunters in a LC list, I would rather just take a second unit of Hunters.  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Landohammer

[Popisdead]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:03 AM, KydbrookP said:

In terms of getting Hurricanum into the thick of it, I was thinking, as Popisdead just mentioned, of perhaps using a command point to move twice, so it could buff shooting units in that phase, then rush up to buff units fighting on objectives, like KH with swords (who could potentially have 6 attacks each with Wardroth Horn and Arch-R, hitting 2+ re-rolling 1s). It would be very vulnerable, but I imagine the KH would attract more incoming.

Someone pointed out to me the Hurricanum is also a hero and a wizard for certain missions this helps. Decent save and good  mobility.  Plus LC means you can make it out of anything Sylvaneth bitz as well

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

The Arch Revenant makes Kurnoth Hunters even more fantastic than they already are (which is saying something!). My only issue is that most LC lists only have room for 2 Sylvaneth units.

Has anyone thought about Dryad spam in LC?  Going shooting heavy and trying to dump Dryads onto objectives?  

[Landohammer]

53 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Someone pointed out to me the Hurricanum is also a hero and a wizard for certain missions this helps. Decent save and good  mobility.  Plus LC means you can make it out of anything Sylvaneth bitz as well

Has anyone thought about Dryad spam in LC?  Going shooting heavy and trying to dump Dryads onto objectives?  

Dryads are fine but there are a lot better options in Cities battleline for spamming objectives with bodies.

The primary appeal of dryads is the -1 to hit generated by Wyldwoods. Without that I would just prefer any of the common batteline options such as  Darkspears or Halberdiers. 

You seem to really like Sylvaneth options in your Living City Army. I love Sylvaneth and they will always be my main army. But the book is C tier at best while much of the Cities book is A and B tier.  Sylvaneth units rely heavily on Glades and (multiple) Wildwoods to be effective for their points, with Hunters being the only exception.

So long story short: If you want a fluffy/fun LC army, feel free to bring any Sylvaneth unit you want. But if you want to try and make your Sylvaneth units work competitively, then their best shot is in a Sylvaneth Army. 

 

[Kramer]

This will be my 1,5k Living cities list. Mostly a home for older models im not yet ready to leave behind, but also something that has some fun tricks and a challenging playstyle for our group. 

 

But through the opportunities of tts i'm probably going to play a 2k battle with the living cities. So suddenly everything is open*. What would you add to this list? 

*except for the hurricanum. Don't like the model. Dont' like the rules. Never going to add it irl, so i'd rather play something else in tts as well. 

[KydbrookP]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:36 PM, Landohammer said:

I think Fulminators and Concussors are really solid in Living City. I'm not a huge fan of Desolators since I don't plan on taking units larger than 2-4. Fulminators may have the superior warscroll but I actually prefer the Concussors because they can become insanely hard to deal with if they roll a 6 on their Lightning Hammers. Imagine clipping a horde of Witch Aelves and denying them a pile in. They become useless. 

The Arch Revenant makes Kurnoth Hunters even more fantastic than they already are (which is saying something!). My only issue is that most LC lists only have room for 2 Sylvaneth units. So the Arch Rev fills up your second slot but just ends up being just an extension of the hunters unit since he can't buff anything else.  Compare that to say a General, Sorceress, Runelord, or Nomad Prince which can usually buff their entire army. 

If I am going to heavily invest in Hunters in a LC list, I would rather just take a second unit of Hunters.  

 

 

Good points - think I might leave the Kurnoths behind and get some Fulminators/Concussors. I’m learning to love the models and making them fit in my head with the fluff I’ve got in mind. The hammer rule is really interesting. Weighing on the other side is that if I take lots of crossbows, I’ve got a way of dealing with low-save hordes, it’s the tougher ones I might need the Dracoths to hit.

[KydbrookP]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:24 PM, Kramer said:

This will be my 1,5k Living cities list. Mostly a home for older models im not yet ready to leave behind, but also something that has some fun tricks and a challenging playstyle for our group. 

 

But through the opportunities of tts i'm probably going to play a 2k battle with the living cities. So suddenly everything is open*. What would you add to this list? 

*except for the hurricanum. Don't like the model. Dont' like the rules. Never going to add it irl, so i'd rather play something else in tts as well. 

Dracoth cavalry has been suggested (we’ve been discussing above), it does seem a really good fit. That would eat up the spare points

[Kramer]

23 minutes ago, KydbrookP said:

Dracoth cavalry has been suggested (we’ve been discussing above), it does seem a really good fit. That would eat up the spare points

Oh yeah that might be fun! Not fond of the models but if it works there’s plenty of converting opportunities there. 
 

[KydbrookP]

27 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Oh yeah that might be fun! Not fond of the models but if it works there’s plenty of converting opportunities there. 
 

I feel the same - would be interested in any conversation ideas you come up with. For me just swapping the helmets for real faces would go a long way

[Kramer]

13 minutes ago, KydbrookP said:

I feel the same - would be interested in any conversation ideas you come up with. For me just swapping the helmets for real faces would go a long way

I’ve come to grips with the stormcast helmets. It’s the bulky dragon. Don’t really like it in the star drake, nor their spawn. 
dragons are a bit more serpentine in my head. Really do like the black dragon for example. 
 

conversion wise. Maybe one of these, but give them a bit more fore limbs. Or a low to the ground salamander type model if I could find it  

 

 

honestly the stormcast on the dracolines are really cool. But not especially useful in living cities. 

[KydbrookP]

33 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I’ve come to grips with the stormcast helmets. It’s the bulky dragon. Don’t really like it in the star drake, nor their spawn. 
dragons are a bit more serpentine in my head. Really do like the black dragon for example. 
 

conversion wise. Maybe one of these, but give them a bit more fore limbs. Or a low to the ground salamander type model if I could find it  

 

 

honestly the stormcast on the dracolines are really cool. But not especially useful in living cities. 

That does look cool. 
 

I like the look of the Vangard-Palladors too, they just don’t seem as effective

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, KydbrookP said:

That does look cool. 
 

I like the look of the Vangard-Palladors too, they just don’t seem as effective

I’m building a vanguard stormcast army with some sacrosanct units for the ‘Tale of X online Warlords’ on this form.

and I agree. Brilliant models, real dynamic, full of character.... Meh rules. 
In theory they should have a role to play. Fast objective grabbers that can ride the winds through event screening. But within an army that can ambush in half their army... that’s not that impressive. They need to do more than just that. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Kramer

[Skreech Verminking]

Say have any of you guys considered taking a huge unit of 8-12 Concussors?

they seem like a incredible hammer unit especially since they can come onto The table with the hidden paths rule, shoot at something and then move 10inches forward towards the enemy line.

it really seems like the perfect unit for living city, considering whatever you charge will likely die instantly.

 

[KydbrookP]

12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Say have any of you guys considered taking a huge unit of 8-12 Concussors?

I was thinking of four, but 8-12 sounds brutal... Six or more could be an honoured retinue too, right?

[KydbrookP]

Unrelated question - does anyone know the dimensions (particularly height) of the Dreadlord in Black Dragon? I’m intending to use an old metal dragon model, so want to make it match as best as possible.

[swarmofseals]

22 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Say have any of you guys considered taking a huge unit of 8-12 Concussors?

they seem like a incredible hammer unit especially since they can come onto The table with the hidden paths rule, shoot at something and then move 10inches forward towards the enemy line.

it really seems like the perfect unit for living city, considering whatever you charge will likely die instantly.

 

If you are going with that many you probably want Desolators as they are the most efficient at large unit sizes. The problem with this strategy is that it's really all eggs in one basket and a unit like that can be zoned away from important targets and tarpitted really easily. When you are spending 800-1200 points on one unit then almost any enemy unit is an "unworthy" target.

The Concussors idea that folks are tossing around is interesting though. Their ability to do some decent damage and lock a unit in place for a turn is pretty valuable, although I think you need a unit of 4 for that to be reliable.

 

Also really liking the Gamezone Predator suggestion as a counts-as. Those models are very bulky but look great. I've got my own conversion idea though if I end up going after some dracothian guard.

[Landohammer]

On 6/13/2020 at 5:24 PM, Kramer said:

 

 

honestly the stormcast on the dracolines are really cool. But not especially useful in living cities. 

I disagree. So their warscroll is admittedly just "ok". Its solid vs low rend armies and can fill a lot of roles. Fast, tough, shooty, and can hit pretty hard. I actually mostly like them because they fill a good points gap. Many typical cities units weigh in around 150, 300, or 450pts. 

However, what pushes them to A tier is the living city command ability + deepstrike. There are only so many competent melee units with shooting attacks. The free heal per turn is also helpful.

If you have 2-4 Concussors or Fulminators that can show up on any board edge, shoot, and then move 10 inches, its going to cause problems for any list regardless of opponent's skill level. 

 

On 6/13/2020 at 6:13 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

Say have any of you guys considered taking a huge unit of 8-12 Concussors?

they seem like a incredible hammer unit especially since they can come onto The table with the hidden paths rule, shoot at something and then move 10inches forward towards the enemy line.

it really seems like the perfect unit for living city, considering whatever you charge will likely die instantly.

 

The main issue with concussors and fuliminators is their limited melee weapon range. It can become a problem getting everyone into combat. Also, Concussors generally want to minimize their pile-in since they are usually hoping to tag a corner and exploit their Lightning Hammers. Futhermore the Living City deepstrike becomes increasingly difficult to use on larger units.  

That being said, I think 2-4 are the perfect sizes. I would maybe run 6 if I was wanting to be silly. Beyond 4 models is a pretty sizeable investment of points and I don't think they are necessarily THAT good. 

Remember Dracothian guard aren't meant to wipe a unit of the table. They are meant to be a jack-of-all trades unit that can either destroy vulnerable units or cripple/delay scary stuff while grabbing objectives and provding some decen't mortal wound shooting. 

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

I disagree. So their warscroll is admittedly just "ok". Its solid vs low rend armies and can fill a lot of roles. Fast, tough, shooty, and can hit pretty hard. I actually mostly like them because they fill a good points gap. Many typical cities units weigh in around 150, 300, or 450pts. 

However, what pushes them to A tier is the living city command ability + deepstrike. There are only so many competent melee units with shooting attacks. The free heal per turn is also helpful.

If you have 2-4 Concussors or Fulminators that can show up on any board edge, shoot, and then move 10 inches, its going to cause problems for any list regardless of opponent's skill level.

No.
Concussors are the ones on DRACOTHS. What you quoted was about the DRACOLINES. 

I fully agree though with your Assessment of the Dracoth units.
 

The Dracolines don’t have a shooting attack. That’s why there is no addition value by combining Drocolines with Living cities. 
They would be better off in tempest eye for example. And in living cities you’re better off with drocoths. 

[Landohammer]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

No.
Concussors are the ones on DRACOTHS. What you quoted was about the DRACOLINES. 

I fully agree though with your Assessment of the Dracoth units.
 

The Dracolines don’t have a shooting attack. That’s why there is no addition value by combining Drocolines with Living cities. 
They would be better off in tempest eye for example. And in living cities you’re better off with drocoths. 

Oops sorry! I can NEVER get those names right. It has confused me since they were introduced. 

Then we totally agree. I like some of the characters on Dracolines (but that is more so the character than the mount) but other than that Dracoths just seem better overall. (in a stormcast or LC army honestly) 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Oops sorry! I can NEVER get those names right. It has confused me since they were introduced. 

Then we totally agree. I like some of the characters on Dracolines (but that is more so the character than the mount) but other than that Dracoths just seem better overall. (in a stormcast or LC army honestly) 

I googled them before my first post as well 😂🙈

oh the mount looks amazing to me. Really fits my jungle theme basing as well. Planning a panther/jaguar like paint scheme. 

but in game... I don’t know. For LC absolutely dracoths because they take advantage of the CA. But in stormcast, I’d might prefer the drocolines because of the lord arcanums command ability (which stacks I seem to remember, or Maybe I’m misremembering), their own spell, and them being wizards in general. That’s all just little bonus on little bonus. 
 

and for a dracoth buff you need a star drake. (Except all generic ones that also work on the dracolines). But likely I’m missing something there. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Kramer

[Popisdead]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:25 AM, Landohammer said:

You seem to really like Sylvaneth options in your Living City Army.

I'll never get over the mixed army.  I like classic WE so much.  Granted, my list I posted had no Sylvaneth 😉 

I also think it's good for there to be a discussion because if I'm thinking about it, others did before and more will come after asking about Dryad summoning in LC.  A good discussion is valid.

On 6/14/2020 at 3:48 AM, KydbrookP said:

Unrelated question - does anyone know the dimensions (particularly height) of the Dreadlord in Black Dragon? I’m intending to use an old metal dragon model, so want to make it match as best as possible.

I wouldn't worry about that.  I have the 4th ed WE dragon which will be my Dreadlord dragon and then the Sister's 6th ed WE dragon which I'm using for a sorceress (same model they changed the tail spike and added vines and spites).  I'm making sure the base size matches.  I've played against people using the metal DE dragon on a 50 mm square.  Sure it changed a few things but overall I would rather people play and slowly convert over their armies than just not play cause of tournament restrictions.

 

I found this guy in my bitz box and needed a break painting last night.  I think I'll run him as an Annointed.  Takes 20 Rend - wounds to kill him and he has dispel abilities that are handy.  in LC he can camp for quite a while in that hero scenario.  I might do some freehand flames or a phoenix on his cloak tonight.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Popisdead

[KydbrookP]

14 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I wouldn't worry about that.  I have the 4th ed WE dragon which will be my Dreadlord dragon and then the Sister's 6th ed WE dragon which I'm using for a sorceress (same model they changed the tail spike and added vines and spites).  I'm making sure the base size matches.  I've played against people using the metal DE dragon on a 50 mm square.  Sure it changed a few things but overall I would rather people play and slowly convert over their armies than just not play cause of tournament restrictions.

Thanks - good to know people are lenient. I have that old WE dragon too, and a two-headed one from the same era. Great to be able to put them to use after many years in pieces. Nice Annointed btw!

[Soxall]

Hi All,

Long time lurker first time poster on this forum.

 

I’m mid building my list for living city and have read a lot of this forum which is full of great breakdowns and analysis of the different units. I had a specific question though:

I’ve seen a few lists using scourgerunner chariots but none using the drake spawn equivalent - I had intended to use drake spawn as I thought the mortal wounds on charge would be good if they were deep striked and used the command ability for a charge. 
 

Is it better to use scourgerunners for their mortal wounds on shooting? Are the chariots not best suited for the deep strike charge combo?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

Thanks

[Kramer]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:48 PM, KydbrookP said:

Unrelated question - does anyone know the dimensions (particularly height) of the Dreadlord in Black Dragon? I’m intending to use an old metal dragon model, so want to make it match as best as possible.

I also don't thing it's a big deal if you use the right base size. But if you want I can take a picture of mine with a ruler next to it?

[KydbrookP]

40 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I also don't thing it's a big deal if you use the right base size. But if you want I can take a picture of mine with a ruler next to it?

That would be great - thanks so much! My one's wings are quite low and extend beyond the base, so I'm thinking of sticking it on a rock so it's not impending enemies piling on - or prevented from landing somewhere the base fits...