Warcry - Stormcast Eternal discussion

[azmarus]

Hi,  stomrcast!  think some body about SCE band?

my band

hunter prime - 210

Hunter -165

Long Raptor 225

2 hounds 150x2

2 birds 45x2

990

we have all marks, warcry from bird, hit and run dogs/

Discus ?)

Edited August 1, 2019 by azmarus

[Zamik]

I haven't picked up a box of Vanguard-Raptors yet, but I have my basic Vanguard Start Collecting models organized into this starting team:

Hunter-Prime: 210

Hunter x 2: 330

Hound x 3: 450

990 points.

I'll test this out when I get the SCE cards this weekend and then tweak.

[RaiderX]

Very well-made team, all of the fighters are cool and interesting.  Longstrike and Hurricane crossbow are probably the most important factor.  The birds are also great filler and support unit with their insane 12" move, fly.

Onslaught (universal double : +1 attack ) is the most important abilities, even more than aim strike for Longstrike crossbow. basically wipe any tier 1 fighters right of the bat.

[Kramer]

^{I have three lists I could easily make but sadly no gryph hounds. So i'm goin to start with list one and paint my Raptors ASAP to get some variation going.} 

^{List 1: Vanguard champ, 4x vanguard hunters, 2x Aether wings}

^{List 2: Vanguard ch, 3x Hunters, Longstrike, Aether Wing}

^{List 3: Vanguard Ch, Hunter, Longstrike, Harricane, 3x Aether Wings}

But I didn't find the rules for the abilities yet (at least in such a photo I could read them) and will have a better look at the lists when I have. Because I don't want to end up in a situation where all my useful skills are all on the same amount of equals. But looking forward to the one I could read, getting a re-roll on my Longstrike for being near a Aether wing. That sounds so thematic and cool if you can get it to work. But as I said these models I have in house (and all the hunters painted, although in time i'm going after the start collecting and converting 5 more hunters for warcry)

[RaiderX]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

^{I have three lists I could easily make but sadly no gryph hounds. So i'm goin to start with list one and paint my Raptors ASAP to get some variation going.} 

^{List 1: Vanguard champ, 4x vanguard hunters, 2x Aether wings}

^{List 2: Vanguard ch, 3x Hunters, Longstrike, Aether Wing}

^{List 3: Vanguard Ch, Hunter, Longstrike, Harricane, 3x Aether Wings}

But I didn't find the rules for the abilities yet (at least in such a photo I could read them) and will have a better look at the lists when I have. Because I don't want to end up in a situation where all my useful skills are all on the same amount of equals. But looking forward to the one I could read, getting a re-roll on my Longstrike for being near a Aether wing. That sounds so thematic and cool if you can get it to work. But as I said these models I have in house (and all the hunters painted, although in time i'm going after the start collecting and converting 5 more hunters for warcry)

5/6 of their abilities are fighter-specific.

First 3 in GW store page.

4th Triple: Darting attack (gryph-hound) : Make a bonus attack action, follow by a bonus disengage action.

5th : Triple: Rapid Fire (Hurricane Crossbow) : Add half dice value to the next attack action (round up)

6th: Quad: Aimed Strike(Longstrike crossbow) : added dice value to damage from hit/critical hit this activation.

 

Also remember everyone can use Onslaught (universal double ability) that give +1 attack this activation, meaning Longstrike crossbow can shoot 4 time, this is an essential ability for them, even better than the Quad.

Edited August 2, 2019 by RaiderX

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, RaiderX said:

5/6 of their abilities are fighter-specific.

First 3 in GW store page.

4th Triple: Darting attack (gryph-hound) : Make a bonus attack action, follow by a bonus disengage action.

5th : Triple: Rapid Fire (Hurricane Crossbow) : Add half dice value to the next attack action (round up)

6th: Quad: Aimed Strike(Longstrike crossbow) : added dice value to damage from hit/critical hit this activation.

 

Also remember everyone can use Onslaught (universal double ability) that give +1 attack this activation, meaning Longstrike crossbow can shoot 4 time, this is an essential ability for them, even better than the Quad.

Thank you! So that means if I want to take advantage of triples I need a hurricane or gryph hound or use my destiny dice to change values. 

It isn’t allowed to play a triple as a double right? 

I’ll take a look at the generic abilities because I didn’t know they existed

[RaiderX]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Thank you! So that means if I want to take advantage of triples I need a hurricane or gryph hound or use my destiny dice to change values. 

It isn’t allowed to play a triple as a double right? 

I’ll take a look at the generic abilities because I didn’t know they existed

You can, but you lose all of your triple/quad dice, for example you have a quad and you use it for a double, you lose all your quad, you didn't get to use 2 double with a quad.

 

Also note that rapid fire only give bonus attack to the next attack action, which mean for most case unless you got triple 5 or 6, if you're going to attack twice, it is better to use Onslaught instead. Which give +1 attack to both your attack.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, RaiderX said:

You can, but you lose all of your triple/quad dice, for example you have a quad and you use it for a double, you lose all your quad, you didn't get to use 2 double with a quad.

 

Also note that rapid fire only give bonus attack to the next attack action, which mean for most case unless you got triple 5 or 6, if you're going to attack twice, it is better to use Onslaught instead. Which give +1 attack to both your attack.

Good to know on the rules front and good advice on the Onslaught ability! 

[Morsla]

There are finally some more readable card images, too 280 for the Longstrike Raptor-Prime is a lot - though they do come with access to the Aetherwing "warning cry" ability via that runemark.

Still trying to work out how to fit in a mix of Hunter and Hurricane-Raptor models, without ending up with an awkward amount of points left over. I currently have 1 Longstrike, 2 Hurricanes, 3 Aetherwings and 3 Hunters (one Prime, two regular).

[soak314]

Lookin to jump into Order with an SCE Warband, and I have no idea where to start. Are the Aetherwings available anywhere outside of the vanguard kits?  Likely going to start myself off with the ez build Castigators box for counts as Raptors, as I love the tabard look and the doggie in that box is very cool.

[Morsla]

Aetherwings only come on the Raptors sprue, unfortunately.

If you end up buying some (or find another SCE player nearby), the easy-build Castigators can be converted using spare crossbow parts from that kit - it's an easy swap to replace the end of the weapon with a triple-barrelled hurricane crossbow.

[Zamik]

52 minutes ago, soak314 said:

Lookin to jump into Order with an SCE Warband, and I have no idea where to start. Are the Aetherwings available anywhere outside of the vanguard kits?  Likely going to start myself off with the ez build Castigators box for counts as Raptors, as I love the tabard look and the doggie in that box is very cool.

The Farstriders box from Warhammer: Underworlds will net you a Hunter-Prime and two Hunters for $25 (models only) or $30 (with Underworlds cards).

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, soak314 said:

Lookin to jump into Order with an SCE Warband, and I have no idea where to start. Are the Aetherwings available anywhere outside of the vanguard kits?  Likely going to start myself off with the ez build Castigators box for counts as Raptors, as I love the tabard look and the doggie in that box is very cool.

It’s a long shot. But I recently bought a blightwar box a shop had lying around. Sold the nurgle half. (Could even sell the paladors if you want to). It nets you 5 hunters, 3 raptors, 3 birds. It’s an effort but it’s probably the cheapest (but rare) option. 

And if you are of a converting mind and like the tabards there is also a easy to build sequitor box. And I’d love to see those converted to hunters. (The prime in that box is the reason I started a small stormcast force. 

[Kramer]

At least it’s only temporary 😂 but damn son, that’s fast. 

[RaiderX]

The Vanguard Raptor kit itself is already dirt cheap folk. You get 6 fighters out of it. Similar kit would've been 60 USD in GW's price. Look at Evocator, the Raptor was somehow under the rada for a long time at 35USD.

[soak314]

5 hours ago, RaiderX said:

The Vanguard Raptor kit itself is already dirt cheap folk. You get 6 fighters out of it. Similar kit would've been 60 USD in GW's price. Look at Evocator, the Raptor was somehow under the rada for a long time at 35USD.

I wouldn't call it cheap in the Warcry context. One box isn't even enough to hit 1k points, even with everything in it. Especially compared to the bonesplitterz box, or factions like Gitz who have very cost efficient alternatives in the Underworlds kits.

[Kramer]

44 minutes ago, soak314 said:

I wouldn't call it cheap in the Warcry context. One box isn't even enough to hit 1k points, even with everything in it. Especially compared to the bonesplitterz box, or factions like Gitz who have very cost efficient alternatives in the Underworlds kits.

True but the boxes weren’t priced for Warcry. Otherwise their would be a mixed group released for €40 to keep the prices level as they do with underworlds. 

So it’s just the luck of the draw if a AoS faction is cheap or expensive in Warcry 

[RaiderX]

1 hour ago, soak314 said:

I wouldn't call it cheap in the Warcry context. One box isn't even enough to hit 1k points, even with everything in it. Especially compared to the bonesplitterz box, or factions like Gitz who have very cost efficient alternatives in the Underworlds kits.

Zarbag's git alone is also not enough for 1k points. If you were buying this + any other Gloomspite gitz kit it'd bring the total cost about the same or higher than Stormcast band

But a single box of Stabba/Shoota do have enough body for a gitz team, for 35USD. These are cheap because they're decade old kits. The Stormcast Raptor was released in 2017.

If you were to go maximum nickel and dime Stormcast band is still cheaper than many bands. 1 Raptor + 1 gryphound orFarstrider. And Gryph-hound can be split.

So 1 raptor + 1/2 Gryph-hound bring the total cost to 47.5USD.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by RaiderX

[Nullius]

Ruh-roh. Has anyone played against stormcast yet? Not sure this warband got playtested very much. They are nearly unbeatable with the current points. Each stormcast removes 1-2 models per turn at range. The starter set warbands are usually tabled by the end of turn 2. Has anyone found a solution? You can run a 15-man horde against them but that just pushes the wipe-out to the end of turn 3 (or sooner with the weaker models in the 15-man band), and they still have aetherwings to take all the objectives after you’re dead. Makes sense fluff-wise but not the most exciting gaming experience. It’s like fighting imperial knights with guardsmen. Please post if you’ve found a weakness that can be exploited.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Nullius

[Nin Win]

I think you might have faced a spike in the dice or some perfect storm of terrain and models arranged in dagger-shield-hammer that lead to that.  If you do the math (including extra damage from shots and whatnot from abilities) they simply on average shouldn't be putting out the damage like that.

EDIT:  Oh, looks like the rapid fire crossbow guys can spike up that high pretty regularly.  2 attacks of 3 dice each will produce 1 crit most shots so that's 6 damage right there.  Taking 4 of those plus a hunter leader would indeed make for a nasty gun line.

One thing I noticed locally though is that people are already ignoring the rules and just doing "deploy everything on your back line of the table and we'll just kill eachother" type games.  Whereas when you use the cards, the force gets split into 3 forces and you can start so much more closely to one another.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Nin Win

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Nullius said:

Ruh-roh. Has anyone played against stormcast yet? Not sure this warband got playtested very much. They are nearly unbeatable with the current points. Each stormcast removes 1-2 models per turn at range. The starter set warbands are usually tabled by the end of turn 2. Has anyone found a solution? You can run a 15-man horde against them but that just pushes the wipe-out to the end of turn 3 (or sooner with the weaker models in the 15-man band), and they still have aetherwings to take all the objectives after you’re dead. Makes sense fluff-wise but not the most exciting gaming experience. It’s like fighting imperial knights with guardsmen. Please post if you’ve found a weakness that can be exploited.

What were you/ your opponent fielding? Because even with extra attacks it seems unlikely the hunters would take out 1-2 fighters a turn? 

The big guys more likely but that’s max 4 models? 

[soak314]

14 hours ago, Nullius said:

Ruh-roh. Has anyone played against stormcast yet? Not sure this warband got playtested very much. They are nearly unbeatable with the current points. Each stormcast removes 1-2 models per turn at range. The starter set warbands are usually tabled by the end of turn 2. Has anyone found a solution? You can run a 15-man horde against them but that just pushes the wipe-out to the end of turn 3 (or sooner with the weaker models in the 15-man band), and they still have aetherwings to take all the objectives after you’re dead. Makes sense fluff-wise but not the most exciting gaming experience. It’s like fighting imperial knights with guardsmen. Please post if you’ve found a weakness that can be exploited.

I have, and they are nowhere near that level of killy?

Have some battle reports:

First game vs my Bonesplitterz:

Victory Condition: I pick a model turn 2 and he has to hold onto a piece of treasure til end of turn 3.

I waagh a big stabba up and nearly gib a hunter in my first activation. A second one stays in the rearline to spook the incoming enemy hammer. My arrowboss hides behind some LoS blocking terrain (if you don't have loads of this you're doing it wrong) after having done his waagh. Next two turns is the SCE player trying to maneuver into position to shoot my arrowboss (who now has the objective), which proves impossible for him to do on time. Easy win for my boyz. I lose a big stabba and a couple of boyz who went around to tie up the stormcast and waste one of their 3 turns.

Second game vs my Gitz (same SCE warband)

Victory Condition: i secretly pick a quarter of the map and have to make it so he has NO models whatsoever on there by end of turn 3.

My squigs spread out, supported by a herder and a moonclan boss. We've rolled a fight at dawn, so I'm relatively safe from fire for the first turn. He manages to get a hunter up using the stormcast double movement ability, and gets a potshot off on a squig who takes all of 3 damage. I'm picking my engagements here, trying to fake out which quadrant I've selected. Purely by chance he deploys a hurricane crossbow onto the danger quarter, and I promptly run 3 squigs and a herder across the board to try and gib it. Turn 3 ends with that hurricane crossbow at exactly 1 health, and he takes the win. I lose 1 squig,  and 1 moonclan boss.

Third game vs my Bonesplitterz

Victory Condition: SCE Convergence 1! Assassination at Dusk (4 Turn Limit)

The name of the game is to kill my arrowboss. I park my juju stick next to him and stick him in cover. I can't end any rounds with the boss within 4 inches of a board edge, or I immediately lose. The scenario specifies dusk, so if he doesn't close in he'll very quickly lose all his range.

Turns 1 and 2 are him utterly pushing the limit on his movement and possible shots made, dealing a total of 13 damage to the arrowboss. I shank a stormcast with my big stabba (these things are a must take for the bonesplitterz) and my juju stick's buff soaks up easily 10 points worth of damage for the boss (+1 toughness up to 5, making everything on the map wound him on 4's at best). At the end of turn 3, he takes a huge gamble and double moves his leader hunter up into base contact with the arrow boss as his final activation.

Turn 4, he nails the initiative on a draw roll, stacks onslaught onto his hunter, and lops off 10 more points of health from the arrowboss. After a solid 30 second decision I decide to Charge my stabba headlong into the only other stormcast that can possibly hurt my boss. I attack twice, and he comes out of it with 4 health left. That last stormcast shoots, and scores the one wound he needed to win. This drops the arrowboss, gets him his first ever convergence win, and puts a big smile on his face.

***

Stormcast in campaign play are way better off than they are in matched play, I think. In matched play, they'll be obligated to bring their birds, because of how heavy (9 of 12 battleplans) the focus is on objectives. In a campaign you can just bring more stormcast.

I don't feel they're OP, not by a long shot. It can feel like you're shooting arrows or swinging weapons at a solid, stainless steel statue at times when you fight em (which is good) but they aren't invincible. I did 24 damage to one with a precision strike with a single buffed squig, that's enough to instagib the nonleaders. And every stormcast eternal you kill is a massive amount of fightyness taken out of their warband right there.

Don't forget the cover rules exist (cover gives +1 toughness, which is enormous), and always use terrain layouts with hard LoS blocking if you can.

[Moldek]

@soak314 thanks for the write up, really nice to have detailed reports. It does seem like it’s important to actually play as prescribed by the rules lol. LoS blocking terrain, twists and 3 group deployment play a big role in balancing the game.

I’m probably going to field a gryph heavy list, as that’s the only model I have that’s actually on the cards. I have the Easy to Build Castigators that could count as raptors too, I think I’ll work with that for now...

[Grimnir]

Boring, Lazy team. Lot of Wound in T5, your enemy will hate you in endgame. Today i played 3 times and have 3 win. Roster: 3 Hunters, 3 Hounds.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Grimnir

[Hannibal]

On 8/4/2019 at 7:51 PM, Grimnir said:

Boring, Lazy team. Lot of Wound in T5, your enemy will hate you in endgame. Today i played 3 times and have 3 win. Roster: 3 Hunters, 3 Hounds.

 

I got that same feeling and therefore refused to start that warband. Do not like negative play experience. Some of the alternate warbands seem to be too good compared to the core boxed set ones.