The Glottkin = too expensive?

[Bronouns]

Plaguebearers seem very nice and resilient as far as battleline goes.  Flies, Feel no pain, and high bravery.

Blightkings are nice elite infantry.

Throw in some good shooting from other places or the foulrain to take out problematic heroes on the backlines.

SO what makes The Glottkin bad?  Too expensive?  Too Squishy?  

[Arkiham]

He's not the best.

 Get him into combat. If there's 3 units within 7" (good chance ) you roll 3d6. Beat the units bravery an they suffer -1 to hit. Off 3d6 that's like average 10/11 something. So good chance. 

Combine him with a large unit, warriors or plaugebearers an he's again really strong, giving them extra attacks or wounds, so helpful.

Always heals d3 in your hero phase has ranged and hits reasonably hard.

It's not that he's rubbish,  but I think he's maybe 50-80 points too much. As.

His ranged attack makes more sense being 2d6 hits, rather than how it currently is, 1 hit with 2d6 damage.

He's incredibly slow for a model of this size. (It is nurgle tbf  so not that bigger deal )

But compare him to a generic drakesworn templar at 500 points. He's completely out matched and the stormcast can take extra items...

 

Glottkin needs more attacks on otto, and an offensive spell from ethrac and the change in the vomit and 50 points knocked off to be considered as good as other big monsters.

[Taketheskull]

I've used him once, so far, and he was pretty epic.

The command ability means his damage output is a touch higher than I was expecting and a nice buff for my other Rotbringer units who aren't used to such luxuries. I rolled quite well and he took down 17 plague monks in a combat phase. Ethrac's spell worked a treat on my plaguebearers, doubling their damage soak.

He is a bit of a target though and was only saved by regenerating wounds. But this did mean I wasn't taking wounds elsewhere, that don't regen.

This is not to say a drakesworn Templar wouldn't have been more effective, but did what he was supposed to do and looked grand while doing it.

[daedalus81]

You can't compare him to a drakesworn templar.  Fleshy abundance on its own is an insane spell not to mention his command ability.

[Nico]

You don't add the 3 dice together for the bravery ability. The rule is utter garbage. I asked about this ability before (i.e. clearly it's a typo as it should be 2 dice vs bravery...) but no - it's a single dice rolled for each unit vs that unit's bravery. Compare it to the wording of the mountain of flesh ability (where you clearly don't add the dice together to try to roll 4+). Literally useless vs all except Grots and Ogres.

As a further clarification, the mountain of flesh ability applies when The Glottkin charges (not when enemy units charge it), the "they" in the rule is referring to plural The Glottkin (i.e. 3 bros) - a few people get this one wrong. 

Command ability is ok - it's just worse than a Bloodsecrator's passive ability (which also stacks).

4+ save and no ward is a big fail - he goes down so easily.

Occasionally his shooting attack tables a unit - but don't count on it.

This model sits on my shelf and gathers dust. I've converted it so I could use it as Orghotts instead. Bring on the Nurgle allegiance pack!

[Arkiham]

45 minutes ago, Nico said:

You don't add the 3 dice together for the bravery ability. The rule is utter garbage. I asked about this ability before (i.e. clearly it's a typo as it should be 2 dice vs bravery...) but no - it's a single dice rolled for each unit vs that unit's bravery. Compare it to the wording of the mountain of flesh ability (where you clearly don't add the dice together to try to roll 4+). Literally useless vs all except Grots an Ogres.

Who confirmed this? As I argued it was this way and dismissed glottkin but my opponents argued it the way I explained. It can be read both ways.

[Nico]

It could be read that way if you ignore the rule immediately beforehand which is worded the same way and where you don't add up the dice to try to roll 4+. I can see why you might think "surely such a big model can't have such an unbelievably junk rule", but it's Chaos.

I wasn't asking for a clarification, I was asking if it was a typo. The answer wasn't in an official FAQ, so nothing to refer to. Feel free to ask the question. It would be a bizarre rule if it worked the other way (why would having more of your friends nearby make you less likely to hit).

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

It could be read that way if you ignore the rule immediately beforehand which is worded the same way and where you don't add up the dice to try to roll 4+. I can see why you might think "surely such a big model can't have such an unbelievably junk rule", but it's Chaos.

I wasn't asking for a clarification, I was asking if it was a typo. The answer wasn't in an official FAQ, so nothing to refer to. Feel free to ask the question. It would be a bizarre rule if it worked the other way (why would having more of your friends nearby make you less likely to hit).

this was my thought the wording is the same. 

either way i dont expect to play him anytime soon. 

[Herald of Chaos]

I usually run the Glottkin in my Nurgle army, however I do think that he is a bit over costed.  You do have to consider though what it brings to your army, particularly when running a mono Nurgle army which is my experience. 

I find most Nurgle units struggle to do a meaningful amount of damage, and while they can soak up a fair amount they eventually get ground down, The Glottkins command ability giving +1 attacks to Nurgle melee in some cases doubles the offensive capabilities of units such as plaguebearers and still considerably helps the damage output most others.

Fleshly abundance has also been very useful for holding up opponents, suddenly being able to double the wounds of a large unit of plaguebearers can be a nasty surprise. 

The ranged attack would be much more effective overall if the attacks and damage were reversed, I have often found though that the threat of a 2d6 damage hit is enough to disrupt my opponents plans even if it never actually happens.

In combat this model usually causes a fair amount of damage, particularly since the command ability specifically notes that the Glottkin itself is also affected.

I find that many of these abilities are lacking in most other Nurgle units. 

18 wounds looks impressive but as others have pointed out, with only a 4+ save and on such a large obvious target they don't last long.  This is where the issue with the Glottkin is and why he is too expensive.  I would really like to see something like the disgustingly resiliant rule on him to give some much more characteristically Nurgle resilience to make his more worth the points.

Even with the sense that it is a bit expensive though I have very rarely regretted fielding him since there are so few other ways that a mono Nurgle army can get access to what he brings to the table.

[daedalus81]

He can give himself mystic shield and a 5+ ward from the harbinger goes a long, long way on 18 wounds.  

[Nico]

However there's no point bringing him unless he's going to be the general.

[daedalus81]

Yea, that's true.  Even a warshrine would be a little helpful.

[Taketheskull]

Used him for the second time last night.

He personally accounted for a Mighty Lord of Khorne (one shot torrent, turn one?) and a unit of Wrathmongers (though that really hurt!!!), the additional attacks he provided were gold, especially for himself and my Plague Drones, but most of all he soaked a tremendous amount of my opponents (Khorne & Stormcast) efforts, with their elite units making a beeline for him. This enabled my Blightkings and Morbidex to dominate the rest of the table. Such was the focus on the Glottkin, that Morbidex only took 4 wounds all game, of which, he healed 2 back.

He eventually fell at the top of turn 4 after sustaining 22 wounds (after regen, running a 3+ save for most of the game) but by that stage it was job done and another glorious victory for the Plaguefather!

[Tasman]

I use him a lot. He looks great on the table and does attract a lot of attention. He's only actually been taken out twice, so either I'm playing him exceptionally well , or he's all that and a bag of chips. Probably a mix of that with a healthy dose of luck thrown in. Lots of points, but the extra attacks make them worth it if you toss a unit of blight kings in the mix.

I've also shadowed him with Festus to heal him (usually one time, then he's toast) Sayl can be an asset as he can fly Glott in and out of harms way as well.

Archaon the little and the harbinger will keep him around a while longer too.

[ChaosUnited]

Probably a really stupid question, but how many points does the glottkin cost? P

[themortalgod]

2 hours ago, ChaosUnited said:

Probably a really stupid question, but how many points does the glottkin cost? P

480

 

Also, pro tip, if you are ever curious about the pts cost of something but don't have your handbook handy, just go to warscroll builder and add it to a list quickly.  Every unit in the game is in that thing. https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

[ChaosUnited]

@themortalgod thanks very much mate! 

[RotCleaver]

The Glotts are amazing imho, Last game I played I ran Glottkin as my general, behind a brick of 10 Blightkings and 30 Chaos Warriors (among other models)...

Cast Fleshy Abundance and Mystic shield on the Chaos Warriors and let them hold the front line, with the extra wound and extra attack the warriors are a nightmare to grind through. Not to mention that since they have the mark of Nurgle they can be healed by the Blightkings in the Hero Phase. 

Nurgle as a faction are very slow, but if you run them in a tight brick then your opponent has to chew through a ton of chaff to get to the Glottkin, and since the Glotts have 2" and 3" melee range, you're often smacking enemy models before they can retaliate. 

I would LOVE a decrease in points as well.

[ChaosUnited]

@RotCleaver how does that tactic go up against armies with lots of shooting or magic? 

[shadowgra]

Anyway fella i had a thought two days ago about Glottkin in the new Nurgle battletome.

And what i thought is that he'll become an alarielle/archaon type of leader, really expensive but really strong. That because:

Is an awesome model and pretty new too

They are the Lords of Nurgle (as described in their command ability)

Already have a ton of wounds which is often related to a high point cost

If this is true (hope to not be wrong on this one) i would like a 3+ save for Sure. Being stuck on a 4+ is so bad. Also removing or changing the two useless abilities that he has would be nice. The spell is fine as it is i think.

 

Otherwise bring him to 400 and then we can start talking of him in a strong list

[sal4m4nd3r]

I use him every game play and he is never my general. He is surrounded by several unitsnkf

bligjtkings and a harbinger. With a 3+ (mystic shield every time) and a 5++, heal d3, blightkings healing.. he is very tough. Dishes out a butt load of damage with some good dice rolls. I have one shotted a tree lord ancient, and even finished off gordakk with a double six vomit shooting attack before. It rarely goes off but when it does get through you can occasionally delete a unit. He attracts so much attention my hordes of blightkings usually take less damage. 

 

He is in my nova open list. Read my

poat in the let's chat thread about how I performed with him in a local nova prep tournament. 

[MaxPounder]

I am actually taking glottkin in a list to a tournament this weekend so will let you know how it fares.

So far the extra attack is great for blight Kings and great unclean ones but apart from that he usually serves as a big bit of bait that everyone guns for. Which can work very advantageously in a objective based game since he becomes a large distraction. 

The list I am taking (which is far from killer it's mostly models I really like and I have done some nifty conversions) is:

Glottkin

GUO

GUO

Verminlord deceiver with chaos blade (+1 attack) 

10 marauders shields fcm

10 marauders shields fcm

10 marauders shields fcm

5 blight Kings fcm

5 blight Kings fcm

5 blight Kings fcm

 

Couple of things combo well and the vermin Lord provides some very much needed speed. 

Other than that I think it's a solid middle table list. Glottkin hamstring your selection of what you build your list around. He combos well with plague monks better but you cannot take them as battle line with him in. 

[RotCleaver]

On 7/31/2017 at 10:34 PM, ChaosUnited said:

@RotCleaver how does that tactic go up against armies with lots of shooting or magic? 

Along with Glottkin, Blightkings and Warriors I typically bring Plague Drones and / or Chaos Knights for more mobility, as well as a Chaos Sorcerer Lord for his amazing spell and ability to unbind.

Lists that spam ranged / magic attacks are definitely troublesome, so you just need to think about how you're going to get your models into a prime location to wreck face, opponents will often gun for the Glottkin since he is such an imposing figure on the tabletop which lets you set up the counter-offensive.

[Broxus]

The Glottkin is an amazing model with amazing rules.  At his previous cost of 480 he cost to much to realistically use.  However, at his new points cost of 420 he is a viable option.

[ChaosUnited]

@broxus after using it in each of the 6 games Ive played so far, I'm inclined to agree. The extra damage output for my other units was crucial, and being able to gift a unit of pb's with an extra 30 wounds was amazing. 

Saying that, I still hope they do something about that useless rule 'horrific opponent' cause at the moment it might as well not be there at all. Pointless. Also what people have mentioned above about reversing the attacks and damage stats of the pestilent torrent would be very much welcomed. 

Oh and a mortal wound save. Surely nurgles finest could take a killing blow on the chin and ride it out.