AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Cosmicsheep]

55 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

How would I best use the hellpits then, send one with a master Moulder to each gargant or try and gang up on one gargant at a time?

DO NOT place your MM anywhere near the gargants. These should kept in the back to ressurect your Rat Ogor units and to buff them before releasing them. They will do nothing for your hellpits. I would keep the hellpits behind a screen of giant rats/swarms and try to get them in combat on YOUR turn rather than his

[W1tchhunter]

5 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

DO NOT place your MM anywhere near the gargants. These should kept in the back to ressurect your Rat Ogor units and to buff them before releasing them. They will do nothing for your hellpits. I would keep the hellpits behind a screen of giant rats/swarms and try to get them in combat on YOUR turn rather than his

The general gives a plus 1 to hit and wound for the hellpits and rat ogors, and another one of them gives plus 1 to hit on everything. But they need to be within 13 inches.

Can I use the Unleash more beasts more than once a turn? 

[Cosmicsheep]

24 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

The general gives a plus 1 to hit and wound for the hellpits and rat ogors, and another one of them gives plus 1 to hit on everything. But they need to be within 13 inches.

Can I use the Unleash more beasts more than once a turn? 

Ahh ok, hadn't spotted that you were using Moulder Supreme. Yeah, 13" is about as close as i would get your MM to the hellpit   Edit: although i see you've also given him 10 wounds, which is smart

You can only use Unleash More Beasts once per turn, but if you'd taken HordeMaster instead of Mouder Supreme, you could use that as well (since it's a different ability)

Edited January 9, 2023 by Cosmicsheep

[W1tchhunter]

17 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Ahh ok, hadn't spotted that you were using Moulder Supreme. Yeah, 13" is about as close as i would get your MM to the hellpit   Edit: although i see you've also given him 10 wounds, which is smart

You can only use Unleash More Beasts once per turn, but if you'd taken HordeMaster instead of Mouder Supreme, you could use that as well (since it's a different ability)

It doesn't say once per turn on the warscroll, I assumed it would be once per phase, so if something died in the shooting phase I could do it, if something died in combat I could, battleshock etc.

And then likewise on the opponents turn.

[Cosmicsheep]

3 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

It doesn't say once per turn on the warscroll, I assumed it would be once per phase, so if something died in the shooting phase I could do it, if something died in combat I could, battleshock etc.

Yeah, it goes back to core rule 6.1 - same command ability cannot be used more than once in the same PHASE. So, yes if SoB manage to destroy a unit in the shooting phase, then you can still use it again in the combat phase.

[W1tchhunter]

Really bugs me that since the new edition came out most monsters in new books got there own monsterous actions and hell pits got nothing. 

My friend plays sylvaneth and their treelords are now 230 points, they have there own monsterous action, 14 wounds a 3 up save and can stop enemies piling in. 

I'm really expecting my 2 other hell pits that don't have Toughened Sinews to die first round of combat with anything, 5 up save is a joke.

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Really bugs me that since the new edition came out most monsters in new books got there own monsterous actions and hell pits got nothing. 

My friend plays sylvaneth and their treelords are now 230 points, they have there own monsterous action, 14 wounds a 3 up save and can stop enemies piling in. 

I'm really expecting my 2 other hell pits that don't have Toughened Sinews to die first round of combat with anything, 5 up save is a joke.

Yes.

even the hell pit with toughened sinews will die pretty quickly

bit will at least survive some stuff 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

I don't mind the hellpit being more expensive, lets just make it amazing. If moulder needs a "master-piece" model, then lets make the rules rise to the points, not the other way around. 

Add monstrous actions, and just give it every mutation under the sun ('cept the lumbering, bleh). Heal every combat phase, +4 save, more wounds, 3+ spell ignore. And then, if they want us to have mutations to give it a side-grade, I'm all ears. 

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I don't mind the hellpit being more expensive, lets just make it amazing. If moulder needs a "master-piece" model, then lets make the rules rise to the points, not the other way around. 

Add monstrous actions, and just give it every mutation under the sun ('cept the lumbering, bleh). Heal every combat phase, +4 save, more wounds, 3+ spell ignore. And then, if they want us to have mutations to give it a side-grade, I'm all ears. 

Well unfairly said, the hell pit isn’t the only

 model in need if a warscroll update in the book.

in my opinion, let us do the job that gws writer are apparently not able to do, I’m with you there !

Edited January 13, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[W1tchhunter]

18 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well unfairly said, the hell pit isn’t the only

 model in need if a warscroll update in the book.

in my opinion, let us do the job that gws writer are apparently not able to do, I’m with you there !

Did you ever get a response regarding the redmaw? 

[Skreech Verminking]

6 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Did you ever get a response regarding the redmaw? 

No.

i asked them at this point six times and always got the answer that they will probably fix it with the next faq, yet that never happened.

so I gave up.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

I would just like Doomwheels to NOT be Behemoths.  What's up with that anyways?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Lord Krungharr Lets fix the Doomwheel. Firstly, we eject the behemoth keyword into the sun. The design philosophy should be: I don't care if it dies quickly, but I want speed and I want damage. Its role in the army should be a skirmish missile, deploy it and let it do its own thing. We'll never justify it being tough, so we can't expect it to last long in combat and much less trying to pin a unit. 

• Retreat+Charge+Shooting, always on, all the time. Its a war machine, it cares not about the vermin beneath its wheels.
• Explodes on death. Each unit within 3" takes d6 MWs
• Movement Gamble: 4D6 movement with option to declare before rolling that movement is doubled. Any 1's are D3 MW's. I certainly could use some help with this one. 
• Either we add impact hits on the charge or we facelift the abysmal melee. I don't see it as a melee centric unit anyways
• Maybe something fun with redeploy, rule exception to use it within 3" of enemies for more damage? Then again it can't issue commands to itself. Lame. Maybe add elite?

These are just spit ball ideas. Ideally I do want it priced like a squishy chariot unit it, so it doesn't need all the bells and whistles. What do we do?

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Lord Krungharr Lets fix the Doomwheel. Firstly, we eject the behemoth keyword into the sun. The design philosophy should be: I don't care if it dies quickly, but I want speed and I want damage. Its role in the army should be a skirmish missile, deploy it and let it do its own thing. We'll never justify it being tough, so we can't expect it to last long in combat and much less trying to pin a unit. 

• Retreat+Charge+Shooting, always on, all the time. Its a war machine, it cares not about the vermin beneath its wheels.
• Explodes on death. Each unit within 3" takes d6 MWs
• Movement Gamble: 4D6 movement with option to declare before rolling that movement is doubled. Any 1's are D3 MW's. I certainly could use some help with this one. 
• Either we add impact hits on the charge or we facelift the abysmal melee. I don't see it as a melee centric unit anyways
• Maybe something fun with redeploy, rule exception to use it within 3" of enemies for more damage? Then again it can't issue commands to itself. Lame. Maybe add elite?

These are just spit ball ideas. Ideally I do want it priced like a squishy chariot unit it, so it doesn't need all the bells and whistles. What do we do?

 

 

I have a few ideas as well, that can make the doomwheel either a powerhouse or a total destructive ticking time bomb for your own army

and since we are already add it, there is a small rule for the stormfiends I personally would like to add for a small points decrease.

i’ll give my own ideas this evening as I am currently running late for a roleplaying session

[Skreech Verminking]

11 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Lord Krungharr Lets fix the Doomwheel. Firstly, we eject the behemoth keyword into the sun. The design philosophy should be: I don't care if it dies quickly, but I want speed and I want damage. Its role in the army should be a skirmish missile, deploy it and let it do its own thing. We'll never justify it being tough, so we can't expect it to last long in combat and much less trying to pin a unit. 

• Retreat+Charge+Shooting, always on, all the time. Its a war machine, it cares not about the vermin beneath its wheels.
• Explodes on death. Each unit within 3" takes d6 MWs
• Movement Gamble: 4D6 movement with option to declare before rolling that movement is doubled. Any 1's are D3 MW's. I certainly could use some help with this one. 
• Either we add impact hits on the charge or we facelift the abysmal melee. I don't see it as a melee centric unit anyways
• Maybe something fun with redeploy, rule exception to use it within 3" of enemies for more damage? Then again it can't issue commands to itself. Lame. Maybe add elite?

These are just spit ball ideas. Ideally I do want it priced like a squishy chariot unit it, so it doesn't need all the bells and whistles. What do we do?

 

 

So I really like the ideas you have.

personally, I do have some as well, i spired by the old world skaven 7th edition book.

the first idea that wouldn’t change the doomwheel from a warscroll perspective, would be just to remove his behemoth battlefield role, reduce his points to a 150 or a 140points and adding an extra -1 rend on his warplightning bolts weapon profile.

the second change I could see that would change the warscroll in total, would be the following:

Warp Lightning bolts:

Do not use the attack sequence for an attack made with a Warp Lightning bolts. Instead, roll a dice to determine the power of that attack. Then roll 3 more dice. For each roll that is equal to or greater than the power of that attack the target suffers d6 mortal wound.

However, this model must target the nearest unit (friend or foe) that isn’t this doomwheel and this unit can not be stopped from making its shooting attack, in addition for each unmodified roll of 1 on those 3 dice, this unit suffers D6 mortal wounds after the attack has been resolved. The same unit cannot benefit from this ability more than once per phase.

 

this is probably the one chance I would add incldiing the explode one you have mentioned.

of course rules like it being able to retreat+and charge is something it really should be able to do.

Personally I don’t think it should be able to rin as the mad scientist inside the hamster wheel of death will always try and drive-scurry the fastest way possible.

so maybe a roll that stops him from

being able to run, butadding the retreat+charge+shoot rule, or in my given case, it can not be stopped from shooting.

 

something we also really need, is the option to have a Warlock engineer controlling one of the doomwheels.

so a doomwheel commander of some sorts

 

Personally I have a ton of ideas for other units like stormfiends, screaming bell, and so on.

And I don’t mind sharing them.

if you guys are fine with that.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[W1tchhunter]

Well today has not gone great lost all two out of three games, 2 against gargants and one against ogors with 3 leadbelchers. The gargant I beat was a super new player and I won all the priority rolls.

The ogor match i lost all three hell pits to the cannons turn one T.T 

Worst thing is, everyone who's beaten me has probably killed an extra 1500 points worth of models cause I've rolled ****** hot on my more more beasts

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Well today has not gone great lost all two out of three games, 2 against gargants and one against ogors with 3 leadbelchers. The gargant I beat was a super new player and I won all the priority rolls.

The ogor match i lost all three hell pits to the cannons turn one T.T 

Worst thing is, everyone who's beaten me has probably killed an extra 1500 points worth of models cause I've rolled ****** hot on my more more beasts

Lets start with this.

I would consider you one of the maddest rats in this chat.

and as the skreech Verminking, I can only say this much, I am proud of you playing three whole hell pits.

you are clearly a master of moulder.

secondly, yeah… I’m sorry for your bad rolls, and while this may hurt to hear, clan moulder isn’t doing great currently

[W1tchhunter]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Lets start with this.

I would consider you one of the maddest rats in this chat.

and as the skreech Verminking, I can only say this much, I am proud of you playing three whole hell pits.

you are clearly a master of moulder.

secondly, yeah… I’m sorry for your bad rolls, and while this may hurt to hear, clan moulder isn’t doing great currently

Gosh you make me blush

I meant my rolls have been really good on the three ups haha that's the worst part even with the extra bodies I've still gotten destroyed. Everyone's enjoyed playing the list though which is what matters!

My next list will have a converted Rat Gargant in it

Playing a very exciting seraphon list tomorrow, it has a dread saurian in it

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I had my first Adepticon practice league game today.   2k Skryre (2 Arch warlocks, 2 engineers, 4x10 Acolytes, 3 Ratling Guns, 2 Doomwheels and 2 Lightning Cannons, vermintide.).  Vs Beasts of Chaos (2 shaman and that Grashrak one from underworlds, beastlord general w Arcane Tome and flaming weapon and master of magic,  doombull, 3 big axe bullgors, 30 Gor unit, 20&10 ungor raiders, 2*10 bestigors).  Nidus Path mission

I got priority and kept it through the game.  Turn 1 was glorious.  Killed the  30 gors turn 1 to achieve Gaining Momentum though, both lightning cannons juiced up and rolled 1 for their power level on both.....the second cannon having to do so to finish off the single remaining  Gor for the most over-cooked  model ever!  Both cannons survived just barely.

But I was too aggressive on my left flank and should have held back letting him come to me to get more Acolytes in range at once.  Once combat ensued he absorbed my couple unleash ****** w feeble Ungors.    But it was a great fun learning game.   I made a cheat sheet to remember the vast amount of effects for Skryre, and I don't think I missed anything. 

Probably should move up the Arch Warlocks with the units leaving the engineers behind with the lightning.  And never ever ever try the juiced up version of Warp Lightning or Storm unless they're about to die anyways!  I killed my general when it was unbound.  Far too risky. 

Wondering if I should trade out 2 Ratling Guns for 10 more Acolytes next time, and also go full MSU w all 5 rat units instead of 4*10.   The screening waves seem important. Sure Ratling Guns get tons of shots, before they die, but hit and wound worse and rend worse.  18 shots on one gun and I think only did 6 damage on a Ghorgon w it.  Though that one actually survived rolling a 6,4,3,2!    Wondering if 5 Acolytes woulda done better w the Warp Spark Damage.  Range is actually similar too after a decent running too. 

I ordered a verminlord and 15 Gutter Runners now.  Adding some stealthy poison power for future optional builds.  Always liked those ninja rats too.

Look what that beast is roasting in the Herdstone fire!!!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking Thats a wild shooting idea for the doomwheel. We'd have to make an exception about being allowed to shoot friendlies. Would certainly justify running them up the board as fast as possible. Perhaps just give them a light version of the lightning cannon ability?

What you're really asking for is our Steam Tank Commander equivalent like what Cities got. This discussion has popped up many a time. We really shouldn't lock it behind the leader keyword otherwise we'd run into the same problem as behemoth. Don't want to make it a totem either. Hmmmm. I still say we give it elite. Perhaps this hero-lite unit can be a wizard without being a hero? Seems fine to me. 

You also mentioned stormfiends, whew, thats a whole 'nother discussion. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Lord Krungharr Isn't it such fun to see all of that fancy rend BOC has go to waste?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking Thats a wild shooting idea for the doomwheel. We'd have to make an exception about being allowed to shoot friendlies. Would certainly justify running them up the board as fast as possible. Perhaps just give them a light version of the lightning cannon ability?

What you're really asking for is our Steam Tank Commander equivalent like what Cities got. This discussion has popped up many a time. We really shouldn't lock it behind the leader keyword otherwise we'd run into the same problem as behemoth. Don't want to make it a totem either. Hmmmm. I still say we give it elite. Perhaps this hero-lite unit can be a wizard without being a hero? Seems fine to me. 

You also mentioned stormfiends, whew, thats a whole 'nother discussion. 

Oh I believe i did say it had to shoot no matter what and the shooting via the ability goes into the next unit (friendly or enemy)

so that should keep players from thinking, yeah why not shoot at all😂.

as for the d6 well….

I guess it might be a bit too much.

so maybe d3 or d3+1 mortals per shoot.

personally I don’t think it will be too much and most tournament players if that was the doomwheels warscroll shooting ability, probably will still consider not taking him as rolling low on the movement will mean destruction in their own ranks 

[Lord Krungharr]

8 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Lord Krungharr Isn't it such fun to see all of that fancy rend BOC has go to waste?

Oh heck yeah it was!  And not giving a hoot about battleshock either. That's why I'm inclined to switch my list back to 5 rat units of Acolytes instead of 10s.  

What if the Doomwheels lose behemoth, we're Elite, AND could use warpsparks themselves.   

[W1tchhunter]

So my day two was yesterday.

I beat the dread saurian dude (he 'won' the wooden spoon at the event for coming dead last so not sure how good I should feel about that one :P) 

My final game was against Skyre! So some skaven on skaven violence, but my god it was a massacre haha. Even with all three of my hell pits reviving and both units of rat ogors i got utterly mowed down. It was a funny game just cause of me bringing the stuff back for him to kill again, but yeah Skyre where definitely the superior clan here for sure. 

Got 120 points spare when next edition hits due to the point decrease but not sure what to add 🤔 

The list is truly terrible and hellpits are absolutely dreadful, BUT it was really fun to play so I shan't stop trying with it.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:

So my day two was yesterday.

I beat the dread saurian dude (he 'won' the wooden spoon at the event for coming dead last so not sure how good I should feel about that one :P) 

My final game was against Skyre! So some skaven on skaven violence, but my god it was a massacre haha. Even with all three of my hell pits reviving and both units of rat ogors i got utterly mowed down. It was a funny game just cause of me bringing the stuff back for him to kill again, but yeah Skyre where definitely the superior clan here for sure. 

Got 120 points spare when next edition hits due to the point decrease but not sure what to add 🤔 

The list is truly terrible and hellpits are absolutely dreadful, BUT it was really fun to play so I shan't stop trying with it.

 

Firstly, I really love the look of your army.

it kinda screams out what it means to start a skaven army. (Having a 3d printer or a fried that can do that)

secondly yeah slryre is pretty strong.

but even they have units that perform utterly better then others.

i guessing your skryre players used mostly stormfiends and 1-3 cannons?