Umbral Spellportal Nerf: Still an auto-no-brainer?

[Sneedlewoods]

Good morning mates,

Umbral Spellportals got nerfed yesterday:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_errata_en.pdf

Do you guys still think it's worth taking? What's your opinion?

I'm not quiet sure if I'd still contain this one in my list anymore because you can now use it only for one spell each turn.

[Teuchter]

Depends on the list. I have recently switched from Stormcast to Legions of Nagash looking for hordes and heavy magic. Was building towards a list with Nagash and a Spellportal, plus Gemnids for a stark contrast to my old playstyle. I think the portal change has the biggest impact on Nagash as it really limits his effectiveness in Turn one, however in the subsequent turns the impact is lessened. 

I think I will probably move to a Arkhan list where his turn one cast can now be, portal and Curse of Years, as the changes don't impact him nearly as much with his fewer casts. Either that or swap out the portal for cogs (more likely).

[Sception]

At 60 points, I'd include it with nagash still, (lets you get at least one good turn 1 debuff in, and the threat of a 20" hand of dust remains significant all game long), but not arkhan (better to bank an extra CP for 10 points less, and stack an extra 6" to the army's debuff range turn one), or anyone else really.

I mean, i could maybe still see it for arkhan with soul harvest, but... 60 points.  I don't know.

[PUFNSTUF]

I was on the fence using it before,now I definitely won't. Might be able to fit a necromancer in the list now.

[Mephisto]

@Sception and I are of a similar opinion. Spell Portal for Nagash still gives him the ability to participate in the Spell Phase on turn 1 which is still a big deal. Plus you can use that ~20" HoD to keep certain deployments honest. Late game it gets even better when you're turtled up and some enemy hero is on a hard to reach objective or you need an angle on clearing a gravesite. Most of what people are feeling is a void from being total gods to being just... good. If you compare it to what it used to be, you'll just be depressed. Sure, if I were allowed to be greedy I'd ask that they shave 10 or 20 points off of it since its power is severely diminished but even at 60 (a unit of Dire Wolves), it's an option worth considering as opposed to just a hard pass or an auto-include. And that's not a bad thing, you just have to think about how you'd use it.

So what about me personally and my Nagash lists? Let me put it another way. In AOS 1.0 I had lists that ran Arkhan just to get that +6" spell range on Nagash. It was a painful list to run with that many points into two heroes. Would I buy a mini-Arkhan for 60 points to still be able to augment Nagash's spell range? Absolutely.

As for Arkhan himself, I don't think Spell Portal is enticing at all. My Arkhan list runs a corpse cart and a mortis engine along with the Lords of Sacrament Battalion. The Spell Portal simply doesn't fit in there and other variants of my Arkhan lists I might run wouldn't be enticed by portal either. The real question I've been struggling with since the Portal Nerf is "do I run my Arkhan list or my Nagash one?" But honestly that's not a new struggle. Let's just say there's a reason I had both lists before spell portal existed.

@Teuchter You sort of described my Nagash list I'm taking to Gencon this year. My AOS 1.0 "core" Nagash list dropped a unit of Black Knights for Spell Portal+Geminids+an extra CP. I'm still rolling with that -BK / +ESs list into Gencon despite  both endless spells I use being nerfed.  I am simply not dissuaded by the changes. The Geminids Nerf took it down from obviously the best Predatory Spell in the game to still the best but now you can debate it. And portal? Well, I've said my piece on that but basically I think Nagash goes from oppressive to play against to just strong. Since he's not absolutely oppressive anymore, the meta chasers will get off Nagash and chase the next thing and leave me alone to play the list I wanted to play anyway.

Summary:
If you're still all-in on the Nagash as a spell casting powerhouse and support piece, Portal still makes him better.
Arkhan already sort of does what Portal does so he doesn't need it unless you have something very specific in mind.

[Teuchter]

@Mephisto I agree. It lets him participate in the first turn magic phase, but the nerf to him through this change is huge (not that you are debating that). Casting one spell rather than 6+ is a massive difference and makes the 860 points investment a task to "pay" back. Its also worth noting that against most lists that move across the table and/or has shooting it has an additional risk. If you are going first in turn one where you are far more likely to get the benifit of the extra range then you are open to a double turn. Two decent rounds of shooting could cripple/remove Nagash before he has had a chance to remove some of your opponents key threats. If you go second the need for the portal is somewhat lessened. Maybe a pallaside would help mitigate this risk? As you say if your all in on Nagash the portal does empower him for sure and should probably still take it for the big scary HoD.

I ended up playing an Arkhan list tonight and i found the cogs to be crazy good in the list in place of the portal. Turn 1 use the +2 movement to move screens and hammers up the board and switched turn 2 to extra cast and reroll saves. His two casts is decent but three is great and rerolls on save with his realitively low wounds and 4+ save helps him so much. 

I don't disagree with anything that is being said, and I am new to death so take this all with a pinch of salt. Just thought i would add a few thoughts that have been bumping around in my head. I strongly agree points are better spent elsewhere on arkhan lists now cogs working well for me early days.

Basically the changes to the portals dont stop me taking them in a nagash list, but in order to fulfil what i have been searching for in a list i feel like my arkhan list fills it better now and that doesnt include portals.

Its late so i hope this all makes sense.

[Sleboda]

10 hours ago, Sception said:

At 60 points, I'd include it with nagash still, (lets you get at least one good turn 1 debuff in, and the threat of a 20" hand of dust remains significant all game long), but not arkhan (better to bank an extra CP for 10 points less, and stack an extra 6" to the army's debuff range turn one), or anyone else really.

I mean, i could maybe still see it for arkhan with soul harvest, but... 60 points.  I don't know.

Just a minor point that you probably realize -

You can do both. You don't actually spend points on command points. You can still buy the spell and get the CP if you come in 50 under.

[Mephisto]

@Teuchter, oh I get what you're saying 100%.  

It's actually exciting again for Death players. We have meaningful choices to make once more as opposed to "take Nagash + Portal, Spam Spells, GG EZ."

I actually do think I lean toward my Arkhan list too were I to rate them both post portal nerf. It's just more versatile and has a better footprint. But darn it I just love playing with Nagash so I'm going to make it work however I can in whatever edition after whatever errata. And that's really the beauty of what they did with the LON Battletome earlier this year. You're always just a handful of units from a different but viable way to play.

[Sception]

3 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Just a minor point that you probably realize -

You can do both. You don't actually spend points on command points. You can still buy the spell and get the CP if you come in 50 under.

In which case dropping the spell portal would give you a second extra command point, which i still think eould be better for any arkhan list not trying to throw out soul harvest bombs, and as enticing as that combo is, i think thete are better uses of arkhan's casting phase.

[CharnelChimera]

13 hours ago, Teuchter said:

-snip-

I've been thinking about cogs, but doesn't that anchor Arkhan/a necromancer into one place? I always feel like I never really get the luxury of hunkering down without at least trying to move up the board, unless I guess I squat on a back-field objective with a necro. I almost like Balewind more at that point.

 

Would you mind sharing your Arkhan list?  Is it full-on competitive, or casually competitive? I'm mulling over several choices and I just can't decide on one. Including a corpse cart certainly interests me, as well.

[Rhellion]

I would still take it... maybe.

[Teuchter]

@CharnelChimera I have attached my list. Im new to death so not sure if its full on competitive but i had fun learning it the other night. Looking at that list i could drop the cogs and take shackles too for 2 extra command points but we are getting away from this threads question. If you need to move arkhan out of his the cogs bubble you could use your 3rd cast to dispel them and move away i suppose.

 

[KoalaSnok]

7 hours ago, Teuchter said:

If you need to move arkhan out of his the cogs bubble you could use your 3rd cast to dispel them and move away i suppose.

Remember that dispelling ES happens at the beginning of the hero phase. All this basically means is that it will have to stick around until next turn, but its an important rule to hammer into the back of ones head in order to avoid unintended cheating.

[Teuchter]

Good pick up. That limits getting that extra cast in that case. Thanks for the clarification ?

[Cambot1231]

Gaunt summoner can just run arcane sacrifice combined with balewind now instead of portal for his flamethrower spell... but is it worth making him general over your lord of change? Can you make him general, do your little flamethrow combo and then the rest of the game just use command points on the lord of change for the +1 to cast instead? Or is it better just keeping  Lord of change general and using spellportal for gaunty??