AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[awcamawn]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:06 PM, Sam24 said:

Allegiance: Wanderers
LEADERS
Archmage on Dragon (320)
- Magestaff
- Allies
Nomad Prince (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Stalker of the Hidden Paths 
- Artefact : Obstinate Blade
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Waystrider (80)
- Artefact : Relic Blade
UNITS
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (210)
5 x Wild Riders (100)
BATTALIONS
Waystone Pathfinders (160)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Looks like a really fun list! I like the Emerald Lifeswarm model, and I think it fits a Wanderer army really well thematically. I've been trying to make it work but have personally found the spell hard to use effectively. The initiative can be so important for a shooting army I find my opponent ends up being the one to move the Lifeswarm, usually to the middle of nowhere. Glad to see they reduced the cost to 50, though. Hopefully it works better for you and it was just down to poor planning and placement on my part. There's always the Aethervoid Pendulum, now at 50 points, if you have the same luck as me.

9 hours ago, Rahatlin said:

For NP i use Myst Walker command ability, which seems like custom made for PV. 

Placing the Nomad Prince so that he is within 12" Protective Volley range of any worthwhile target but is not also immediately killed by any such target before your next hero phase is the core puzzle that Wanderers players looking to use the battalion have to solve. It's a puzzle with a lot of variables and it's a pretty tough one. I don't know if I'm the best to give good general advice on the subject but what I have personally found with Myst Walker specifically is that you may be surprised by the number of ways opponents will get around it.

It could just be my local scene and the armies my friends have but there are many units with abilities that can cause mortal wounds without actually making an "attack" which would be prevented by Myst Walker. Evocators and Morrsarr Guard both have 3" range mortal wound abilities, for example, and armies like Gloomspite and Nurgle can put out streams of D3 mortal wounds without an "attack." That is not to mention that an enemy's damaging Spell casts will be able to target the Prince normally as well. It's a very cool and thematic Command Trait and is extremely strong against the right opponents, but watch out for those sneaky spells and abilities.

There are a couple of artifacts you could give a Nomad Prince to increase the defensiveness - Viridescent Shawl combined with the Waywatcher command ability and Look Out Sir gives -3 to hit with ranged attacks, the Forget-me-knot adds some defense against enemy heroes specifically, and in Malign Sorcery there is the ethereal artifact that makes your rerollable save un-rendable (still just as vunerable to mortal wounds though). 

8 hours ago, Hagbean said:

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
- General
- Trait: Myst Walker 
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Wayfinder (80)
Waystrider (80)
Waywatcher (120)

Battleline
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)

Units
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (210)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (210)

Battalions
Waystone Pathfinders (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

I like your collection. You're definitely taking full advantage of the battalion with all the shooting attacks you can bring to bear. The thing that stands out to me is that your Sisters of the Thorn lack a particularly good target for their Shield of Thorns, as rerolling the Glade Guard's 6+ save won't be very effective. Having a unit of some Eternal Guard may be a good idea to screen enemy threats and give your archer more turns to shoot. They are also probably the best in-faction target for Shield of Thorns.

Potentially you could swap out 20 of the Glade Guard, and put in 20 Eternal Guard (either 1 or 2 units) to stand in front. That'd leave room for another 80 point hero of your choice and a cheap endless spell to give your 3 wizards something else to cast. If you take a second Wayfinder prioritize putting him in the battalion over the Waystrider as his shooting attack is better for Protective Volley. A second Nomad Prince is another option, and would add a decent melee combatant and some good redundancy on his command ability should one of your Nomad Princes fall. Endless Spells don't have to mean buying new models either, if you have some weapon bits laying around you can make your own 'Quicksilver Swords' pretty easily, for example.

You could also consider swapping the Waystrider for a second Wayfinder. Rules wise there isn't a great reason to take a Waystrider right now at 80 points when a Nomad Prince is better in combat and has a better command ability and the Wayfinder fulfills the same battalion requirement, is better at shooting, and makes Wildwood Rangers battleline. It's sad because the Waystrider is really cool, and I was hoping he was going to go down to 60 points to give us more reason to include him.

[Hagbean]

1 hour ago, awcamawn said:

I like your collection. You're definitely taking full advantage of the battalion with all the shooting attacks you can bring to bear. The thing that stands out to me is that your Sisters of the Thorn lack a particularly good target for their Shield of Thorns, as rerolling the Glade Guard's 6+ save won't be very effective. Having a unit of some Eternal Guard may be a good idea to screen enemy threats and give your archer more turns to shoot. They are also probably the best in-faction target for Shield of Thorns.

Potentially you could swap out 20 of the Glade Guard, and put in 20 Eternal Guard (either 1 or 2 units) to stand in front. That'd leave room for another 80 point hero of your choice and a cheap endless spell to give your 3 wizards something else to cast. If you take a second Wayfinder prioritize putting him in the battalion over the Waystrider as his shooting attack is better for Protective Volley. A second Nomad Prince is another option, and would add a decent melee combatant and some good redundancy on his command ability should one of your Nomad Princes fall. Endless Spells don't have to mean buying new models either, if you have some weapon bits laying around you can make your own 'Quicksilver Swords' pretty easily, for example.

You could also consider swapping the Waystrider for a second Wayfinder. Rules wise there isn't a great reason to take a Waystrider right now at 80 points when a Nomad Prince is better in combat and has a better command ability and the Wayfinder fulfills the same battalion requirement, is better at shooting, and makes Wildwood Rangers battleline. It's sad because the Waystrider is really cool, and I was hoping he was going to go down to 60 points to give us more reason to include him.

Thanks a lot for the response mate, I do have the Malign Sorcery box, what Endless spells would you recommend? I'm finding myself with the 100 points spare after including 2 units of 10 eternal guard and not entirely sure what spells to take.

I'll certainly take your advice your advice and try out a second wayfinder as well!

[robbobobo]

Hey there,

I really hate to add to deluge of 'new Wanderer player with list here' but I want to make this my GHB2019 army. The main plan is to have a wall to shield the ranged units whilst other units teleport around the board, secure objectives, nuke stuff etc. whilst having decent magic support with a Knight-Incantor ally (since the price drops make room for such things now).

Allegiance: Wanderers
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
- General
- Trait: Stalker of the Hidden Paths
- Artefact: Forget-me-knot
Wayfinder (80)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
- Artefact: Wending Wand
Waystrider (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
20 x Glade Guard (240)

Units
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
10 x Wild Riders (200)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (210)

Battalions
Waystone Pathfinders (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Quicksilver Swords (30)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 120

I am aware that you need to spend 50pts to gain a command point but I've left it as is for simplicity.  Hopefully I've gleamed something from this thread and I welcome any and all feedback.

[GM_Monkey]

12 hours ago, Rahatlin said:

Hello Generals!

Long time reader here. Now that i have collected army and played some (two) games i wanted to discuss something with you guys.

Protective Volley

So... - My basic tactic is evolving around PV battalion ability. Considering we got average 4* turns of shooting, what are yours recommendations for maximasing Protective Voolley potential?

We all know becouse of 12" range, Nomad Prince needs to be in charge range for PV to happen, and you have to activate it in Hero phase, which means it requires at least one turn of setup - and SOLID unit around NP so he cant be killed in enemy combat turn. 

For NP i use Myst Walker command ability, which seems like custom made for PV.  Stalker of the Hidden Paths is tempting for sure, BUT - it requires general staying close to edge - which effectively limit Protective Volley potential - and put alot of risk on our 5 wounds general, and limit my objective holding/attacking options

Id be really glad to read about your experiences and ideas on this, and how you are making most out of protective volley.

Cheers!

When I run the Battalion I generally use the a line of 20 eternal guard standing in front of everyone. I position my troops in the development phase just within charge range but as a temping target. I then give my opponent first turn. He should in theory take the bait and try and 1 turn charge your lines. However due to the large distance he will likely fail 50% of his charges. Which means you should have be able to survive with the 20 eternal guard in the combat phase. Take you turn, protective volley the scariest thing in your lines, use blessing of life to reinforce your eternal guard. Use your shorter range shots to kill anything else in combat, or move up to put the rest of his troops in range of the failed charges. Go for the double turn.

Results may vary. Always read the label before use.

Edited June 19, 2019 by GM_Monkey

[GladeRider]

HEy i see Wildriders so expensive even with the point reduction in comparison with similar units from other armies such as Savage BoarBoyz, or even Saurus Knights. Dire wolves seem better too.

Do you guys find WR usefull in any case? thnks 

Salutations
 

[martinwolf]

I have to say, I was a bit down after learning, that Glade Guard didn’t drop in points and that “extend allegiance abilities” was just a marketing phrase and that we’ll only get point changes. But seeing the influx of people here and the positivity makes me happy and motivated again.

Can’t wait to field my Wanderers force in a Meeting Engagement on the weekend.

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

Here's a question for you all...

With the lack of spell lore update, do we think there is a possibility of a surprise battletome or [near]future plans for one?

In the same vein as Beastmen etc. - battle tome, spell lore, endless spells

I'm just thinking that Serraphon had a lore update, so it wouldn't have been too much trouble to give us one too. I interpret this as Serraphon being a lot further off.

 

On a positive note, I am chuffed that Wild Riders are getting a reduction in points.

Also, rules query- if you take the Wanderers allegiance abilities etc, can you still take command traits/artefacts from the Realms (eg Ghurstrike)?

 

@awcamawn- Loving the Shadowdancer idea! Keep me posted!  

 

[overtninja]

2 hours ago, GladeRider said:

HEy i see Wildriders so expensive even with the point reduction in comparison with similar units from other armies such as Savage BoarBoyz, or even Saurus Knights. Dire wolves seem better too.

Do you guys find WR usefull in any case? thnks 

Salutations
 

at 10 wounds with 11 3+/4+(3+ on charge)/1 attacks and 10 4+/4+/1 attacks, they are a pretty good choice for 100 points - especially if you factor in their movement of 12. They are probably the fightiest out of all the units you listed, with a balanced profile between bravery, saves, and banner/musician models. I personally love bringing 10 to my games, they stick around and really hurt if they can charge things (with their movement score, they can pretty easily do that) - especially with Shield of Thorns to support them.

[awcamawn]

7 hours ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

Also, rules query- if you take the Wanderers allegiance abilities etc, can you still take command traits/artefacts from the Realms (eg Ghurstrike)?

Yes you can! Any allegiance can take the realm artifacts as additional options once you declare from what realm your army hails.

Really hopeful we will get a battletome but I don't want to get my hopes up by expecting it to come soon. I do think one of the GHB allegiances will get a book within the next three months like Beasts of Chaos did last year, but who's to say which one?

11 hours ago, Hagbean said:

I'm finding myself with the 100 points spare after including 2 units of 10 eternal guard and not entirely sure what spells to take.

You could take two expensive endless spells, like the Emerald Lifeswarm and the Aethervoid Pendulum, or add another Wayfinder, Waystrider, or Nomad Prince for 80 and then get one of the cheapest endless spells with the 20 points left over. 

[Sam24]

Thanks awcamawn for your feedback. Much appreciated. Endless spells aren't great are they. 50 points for maybe being able to heal D3 wounds... How can that possibly ever be worth it. Themeatically it goes great. And I have the model, so that is my deal. But it's not my ideal situation. 

[Rahatlin]

6 hours ago, overtninja said:

at 10 wounds with 11 3+/4+(3+ on charge)/1 attacks and 10 4+/4+/1 attacks, they are a pretty good choice for 100 points - especially if you factor in their movement of 12. They are probably the fightiest out of all the units you listed, with a balanced profile between bravery, saves, and banner/musician models. I personally love bringing 10 to my games, they stick around and really hurt if they can charge things (with their movement score, they can pretty easily do that) - especially with Shield of Thorns to support them.

Not to mention they are best target for your Spellweaver to ressurect since spell is model not wound base. Idk really why ppl complain so much about WR, even with 120 pts they are solid choice (for me) to help with flank attack since they can run and charge same turn

13 hours ago, awcamawn said:

Placing the Nomad Prince so that he is within 12" Protective Volley range of any worthwhile target but is not also immediately killed by any such target before your next hero phase is the core puzzle that Wanderers players looking to use the battalion have to solve. It's a puzzle with a lot of variables and it's a pretty tough one. I don't know if I'm the best to give good general advice on the subject but what I have personally found with Myst Walker specifically is that you may be surprised by the number of ways opponents will get around it.

It could just be my local scene and the armies my friends have but there are many units with abilities that can cause mortal wounds without actually making an "attack" which would be prevented by Myst Walker. Evocators and Morrsarr Guard both have 3" range mortal wound abilities, for example, and armies like Gloomspite and Nurgle can put out streams of D3 mortal wounds without an "attack." That is not to mention that an enemy's damaging Spell casts will be able to target the Prince normally as well. It's a very cool and thematic Command Trait and is extremely strong against the right opponents, but watch out for those sneaky spells and abilities.

I did not encounter these, but i only started - so your hints are very appreciated. I guess you need to be on a lookout for these - and prioritaze shooting slightly different.

Overall if i can fire Protective Volley three times in game i consider it very good try. My army is mixed shoooting/meele so i can get my NP in place- it compensates less shooting units with PV- and help me hold or push objectives.

Phoenix Guards are especially good in holding ground hence double save 4+ even against MW. I converted them to fit thematicly in army. So good in fact that i consider swapping my 10 WWR for extra 10 PhoenixG.

[Alexispolux]

22 hours ago, Charlo said:

Common misconception, those books aren't new "grand alliance" books. They just battletomes for each alliance. So for example a new Order faction, a new Death faction, a new Chaos and Destruction factions.

Currently I don't think these have been revealed (unless Fyreslayers count for order)

Derp. Yeah i must have read their marketing spiel wrong

[GladeRider]

12 hours ago, Rahatlin said:

Not to mention they are best target for your Spellweaver to ressurect since spell is model not wound base. Idk really why ppl complain so much about WR, even with 120 pts they are solid choice (for me) to help with flank attack since they can run and charge same turn

thanks both i think im gonna buy.

ur fault.

Edited June 20, 2019 by GladeRider

[GM_Monkey]

I did another calculation with damage compared to points with are most shooty units using the new points values. Each unit appears more then once to account for special abilities or different bonus against chaos. This is against 4+ saves. Check out the Wounds column for how many unsaved wounds they causes (and imagine rolling 34 save rolls!). The units are:

40 Glade Guard (480 points).
30 Sisters of the Watch (480 points)
4 Waywatchers (480 points)
6 Wayfinders (480 points)

I know you can't take 6 wayfinders or 40 glade guard but it means everything is the same cost.

As you can see the Sister of the Watch come out way better then most things, even against non-chaos they beat out Bodkin glade guard which is huge. They do lose out after moving. Surprise visit 2nd on damage is the Wayfinder. Before the points drop I wouldn't even look at him but now he's almost beating out the Waywatchers for damage to points, in fact that's a whole new spreadsheet with how many turns it takes waywatchers to catch up on numbers of shots (its 3 for stationary 2 WW compared to 3 WFs)

So make of it what you will but I've got another 20 Sisters of the Watch on order to build and fit in some how. And I think my wayfinders is coming up to be an auto include instead of a maybe for a change include.

[Zanzou]

Is that not insanely imba that glade guard's ONCE per game against blood warriors is still worse than the same amount of points in sisters of the watch who just have to sit there?  Either Sisters are too cheap or glade guard need to be buffed...  

Edited June 20, 2019 by Zanzou

[GladeRider]

14 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Is that not insanely imba that glade guard's ONCE per game against blood warriors is still worse than the same amount of points in sisters of the watch who just have to sit there?  Either Sisters are too cheap or glade guard need to be buffed...  

Glade Guard 100 points would have been awesome 😢

[GM_Monkey]

15 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Is that not insanely imba that glade guard's ONCE per game against blood warriors is still worse than the same amount of points in sisters of the watch who just have to sit there?  Either Sisters are too cheap or glade guard need to be buffed...  

Yeah that's the thing, back in the original GHB GG at 120 and SotW at 220 Glade guard where so far and above the best, then 120 for 10 GG compared to the 180 for 10 SotW the actually made the decision very hard. Now with the SotW price drop it's really a no brainer, I mean SoftW moving against Chaos are better the waywatchers!? and at they're best all game long better then Glade guard 1 off ability.

But to be fair I think GG should be 100 points, I mean compare them to Free guild archers or ungor raiders both cheaper, both almost the same stats.

[Zanzou]

Agreed to both of you.  I don’t know why it feels like such little thought is put into these updates.  Unless it’s the highly unlikely event that the aelves are getting a battletome that specifically buffs GG within the  next month 😅

[GladeRider]

28 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Agreed to both of you.  I don’t know why it feels like such little thought is put into these updates.  Unless it’s the highly unlikely event that the aelves are getting a battletome that specifically buffs GG within the  next month 😅

Dreaming about that is like being on drugs. Hate it, but cannot quit it.

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

Happy Summer Solstice!

May our King in the Woods lead the Wild Hunt with eternal power and vigor! 

[Popisdead]

On 6/7/2019 at 6:43 AM, Arkanaut Admiral said:

The Wanderers are a faction I’m quite interested in.  What do you guys think is the future of the faction?  Dedicated battletome?  Part of a wider Aelve tome?  Merdged back with  sylvaneth?

The last/current Sylvaneth Battletome was so good I hated that idea.  Now that they've made the unreleased/sold-for-one-day Sylvaneth Battletome built on the same template as the Beast of Chaos I am 100% into this idea again.  

On 6/8/2019 at 7:47 AM, overtninja said:

My list was Nomad Prince(Artefact: Starcaster Longbow), WayWatcher, WayFinder(general - SotHW), WayStrider, SpellWeaver, 20 GG, 20 WildWood Rangers, 20 WWR, 5 Sisters of the Watch, 5 Wild Riders, 5 Sisters of the Thorn, and a Maelstrom (the model was unavailable, so I didn't use it in either game).

Did you really take 5 of Sisters of the Watch?

On 6/14/2019 at 2:32 PM, Frozenbeast said:

I think is a pretty conservative drop (WR should be 80pts, SotW should be 140pts), but it is still a drop in points and that makes me hope for the other units and for our battalion.

Centigors are 80 points and plain better in every way and then some more than WRs.  100 points for WRs still is too much.  Maybe if Orion had his Wanderer keyword and they got a pretty big boost.  I see no reason that unit doesn't have MW dmg on the charge given it is stags hitting at high impact.

On 6/15/2019 at 1:09 AM, GM_Monkey said:

The old Sister of the Watch or Glade guard argument just got even more interesting if the Glade guard get no points drop. SotW are still  looking like the best option.

Fixed that for you   Past arcane bodkins points-wise in 2018 GHB SotW were better in turns 2-5 than GG consistently.

 

On 6/16/2019 at 5:11 AM, overtninja said:

I'm thinking about slotting in a Treelord for my 2k list - he's cheap and fighty, and his stomp works really well with our fragile but hard-hitting units. Might also go Bow Kurnoth for additional shooting to whittle things down, but I think they'll suffer from not getting rerolls of 1 from an Arch-Revenant. It's really nice to have options!

for 3 years I have wanted the Treelord,.. okay fine since 2006 I have wanted the Treelord to be good.  the ASL is a 4+ still.  Which is dumb since the Keeper is 2+.  At least make it a 3+ GW,.. c'mon.  I've been thinking a couple units of 3 sword hunters or two treelords aren't a terrible option either.  They have MW output now.

On 6/18/2019 at 2:05 PM, Hagbean said:

Battleline
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)
20 x Glade Guard (240)

If you don't get first turn (your opponent has 1st turn, deploys out of effective range of the GG shooting) all that needs to happen is each of those 4 units of GG needs to be sneezed at to become ineffective vs 2x10.  19 is a bad number of GG and a hand you can't get in Crib so... yeah.   maybe 2 x 30 and 2 x 10?  Makes the 30 more effective and the 10 usable to kinda snipe off and hang around supporting or screen.  Just my opinion/gameplay, others probably have success running 20.

On 6/20/2019 at 7:03 AM, Zanzou said:

  Either Sisters are too cheap or glade guard need to be buffed...  

Nope and yup.  The classic Aelves are a horde in AoS which is the issue.  And Wanderers have no synergy or buffs or real merit.  I would say the issue isn't a comparison between them but 10-man infantry shooting units don't work well (historically they really haven't either) and yet that is somehow the backbone of our army.  We shouldn't need 30 GG to be a unit.  We should be able to drop 2-3 SotW and it be effective and scary.  

2 hours ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

Happy Summer Solstice!

May our King in the Woods lead the Wild Hunt with eternal power and vigor! 

heh nice.  To you as  well

[Popisdead]

Does anyone know the ally list in GHB2019?

[Hagbean]

30 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

If you don't get first turn (your opponent has 1st turn, deploys out of effective range of the GG shooting) all that needs to happen is each of those 4 units of GG needs to be sneezed at to become ineffective vs 2x10.  19 is a bad number of GG and a hand you can't get in Crib so... yeah.   maybe 2 x 30 and 2 x 10?  Makes the 30 more effective and the 10 usable to kinda snipe off and hang around supporting or screen.  Just my opinion/gameplay, others probably have success running 20.

Yeah thanks for the advice, this had been mentioned so i'm going to run 2 x 30, and 2 x 10 Eternal guard and see how I get on. Think I may try some Sisters of the Watch at some point when i've got some more $$$ to spare (as they're not exactly friendly on the wallet) and i've actually finished the projects i'm "working" on atm.

[Hagbean]

Just now, Popisdead said:

Does anyone know the ally list in GHB2019?

Just to chime in on the Ally talk, i've never understood why they don't allow Wood Elves to be taken as allies for Wanderers. Fluff aside they're not game changing warscrolls and would allow people to field some of their cool old models that they PAID GW money for.

[Popisdead]

Just now, Hagbean said:

Yeah thanks for the advice, this had been mentioned so i'm going to run 2 x 30, and 2 x 10 Eternal guard and see how I get on. Think I may try some Sisters of the Watch at some point when i've got some more $$$ to spare (as they're not exactly friendly on the wallet) and i've actually finished the projects i'm "working" on atm.

IMO that is a better combo.

I have 10 SotW and probably 20 2005-era Waywatchers which I'm using also as SotW.  I'm sure you can score some old WW as well.  I would also suggest if cash is a problem any old HE or WE archers are fine so long as they aren't specifically the same models as your GG.