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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

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6 hours ago, Bladedwind said:

I serk assistance from the Longbeards! I will be at a local Tourney next Saturday that runs 1500 points...with the twist that it will be 2 on 2. Any suggestions tactics and list wise?

Do you know your team mate’s army and list?

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@heywoah_twitch did a very good podcast about a "competitive" aproach to Dispossessed (the first half of the video), check it out ;)

 

He missed out our little Unforged combo with the Ghyrstrike but if you are interested in a tournament enviroment you could find some very valid idea here!

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15 hours ago, Ironbreaker said:

Games like this are lessons in why you should always play the objective.

And why you shouldn't concede turn 1! We see people quit after a rough first round too often. Shows sticking with it can pay off. Great report!

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21 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

@Ironbreaker that's some quality report! :)

How do you value your Organ gun+ gunmaster? I like to bring a Cannon instead (last game in 4 turn the cannon did exactly 24 damage to a 30 man block of Graveguard, got lucky with damage rolls but still the reroll against horde is massive)

Give us your thinking process around the teardrop of grugni pick, please. I'm so used to the pickaxe that I'm kinda blind around other artifacts options!

I like my Organ Gun and Gunmaster. I initially took it because I liked the look of it. It's got a potentially higher volume of fire than the cannon so that's a plus. I'm usually knocking out good numbers of models with each attack. It's a little wishy washy even with the Gunmaster. Some games I never have to reroll while others I still fail mostly even with the reroll. I also like that it has psychological warfare potential with the people I play at least. A few times I have been able to use their fear of getting into range of it to control the battlefield. I usually deploy it further back while keeping only part of the enemy army in range and constantly maneuver it to maintain this distance. Artillery is stupidly vulnerable to damage to the crew like mortal wounds and I would like to keep it functioning.  Thankfully I don't have anyone at the store playing teleport heavy armies. 

 

I've never had much luck around taking a pickaxe. Units I wanted to use might be killed off or locked into combat, hero might get into combat, ect. There is also the delay that can make the pop-up location sometimes predictable. (I did however use it once to escape the battlefield with fragile units until a major threat was taken care of and brought them back in the exact same location they left.) My games usually follow the pattern of an enemy rush into my units, I beat them back while taking loses, and push up to capture objectives once they are defeated. Lately I have instead opted for taking a the pile driver gauntlets on the Warden King. Screening line of Warriors or other Duardin charge in for the attack and the Warden King moves in behind them. Start of combat the King hits the ground to make the Duardin harder to hit. Once the enemy is thinned out, Warden King charges in for the clean up if it is safe, if it isn't he will strike the ground again. I use this often against Khorne since he usually can't be shot from behind the line. I took tear drop the recent game just to try it out while keeping in mind the flamethrowers that often get me in the game. It could be used to mortal wound the flamethrower or maybe slow the Verminlord so more Drakes can target it. Potentially it could have even killed it if the Verminlord was whittled down from the Organ Gun and Drakes. I think if facing situations like these, tear drop is somewhat viable.

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Posted (edited)

In response to a previous question I have no idea who my partner will be. That said I have thrown together a quick list.

Warden King 120
Runelord 100 (Pickaxe)
100 Point Hero of Choice

20 Ironbreakers 280
30 Hammerers 420
20 Irondrakes 360
10 Longbeards 100

Total 1480

 

 

Plan is to just go elite, go straightforward, and use pickaxe to cap objectives. The role or use of pickaxe may change. The unnamed hero will PROBABLY be a Runelord, but I have an Unforged on the way and I'm toying with the idea since we do have a Chaos player as well as someone that runs Beastclaw Raiders

Edited by Bladedwind
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1 hour ago, Bladedwind said:

In response to a previous question I have no idea who my partner will be. That said I have thrown together a quick list.

Warden King 120
Runelord 100 (Pickaxe)
100 Point Hero of Choice

20 Ironbreakers 280
30 Hammerers 420
20 Irondrakes 360
10 Longbeards 100

Total 1480

 

 

Plan is to just go elite, go straightforward, and use pickaxe to cap objectives. The role or use of pickaxe may change. The unnamed hero will PROBABLY be a Runelord, but I have an Unforged on the way and I'm toying with the idea since we do have a Chaos player as well as someone that runs Beastclaw Raiders

Looks like a well rounded elite list. The pickaxe would be useful with the breakers hammerers or drakes. As for the other hero, I would definitely go another runelord. Other than that since you don’t know who your partner you can’t really plan ahead much more than you have. I would advise against the unforged though, he can be good but really needs an artifact and be against chaos. 

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3 hours ago, Bladedwind said:

Warden King 120
Runelord 100 (Pickaxe)
100 Point Hero of Choice

20 Ironbreakers 280
30 Hammerers 420
20 Irondrakes 360
10 Longbeards 100

Total 1480

I like this list ;) Update us on the outcome!

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After watching the video @Furuzzolo has posted, I really don't see any real reason to play dispossessed allegiance. Until now I didn't even know they nerfed the pickaxe to now work in the movement phase. I also forgot about the free cities which can help us out. For me there was always the pickaxe which made me choose the allegiance. We only get mediocre abilities. The other big plus is the other Battleline choices, but I always take warriors anyway so there is no longer any reason for me to play dispossessed instead of order.

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Let me disagree ;) Pure Dispossessed allegiance give you a lot of options letting you choose battleline and the grudge ability isn't that bad. I had issue against death (they have some orde, some 4+, some monster but no grudge could cover all the army) but in general the grudge against 4+ save is solid against most of the armies.

Free cities are good, i loved the one that let you deploy in deepstrike on table edge but i would not take 3 warriors or longbeards to legally have 3 battleline. Don't get me wrong, the podcast highlight the weakness of the army and the proposed lists are for sure a good options if you want a better shot at the objective game but, imho, you can pack a heavier punch as pure Dispo. 

And the battalion suck, I would't match the required units even with a knife pointed at my back. Let alone build a list around it.

Take the video as different bell about the army, not as the absolute true. It's always good to have a wider range of opinions!

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2 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

Let me disagree ;) Pure Dispossessed allegiance give you a lot of options letting you choose battleline and the grudge ability isn't that bad. I had issue against death (they have some orde, some 4+, some monster but no grudge could cover all the army) but in general the grudge against 4+ save is solid against most of the armies.

Free cities are good, i loved the one that let you deploy in deepstrike on table edge but i would not take 3 warriors or longbeards to legally have 3 battleline. Don't get me wrong, the podcast highlight the weakness of the army and the proposed lists are for sure a good options if you want a better shot at the objective game but, imho, you can pack a heavier punch as pure Dispo. 

And the battalion suck, I would't match the required units even with a knife pointed at my back. Let alone build a list around it.

Take the video as different bell about the army, not as the absolute true. It's always good to have a wider range of opinions!

Yes you are right. I will try both and report back the one that results in the least amount of grudges.

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I also don't feel like sacrificing the flavor that is the Dispossessed allegiance. I play as someone righting grudges and seeking to reestablish  my clan's hold to prominence. The "Free City" allegiance kind of dampens tgat for me.

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@Ironbreaker Thanks for this detailed battle report, it is valuable knowledge for the beardlings like myself. Though I didn't see any mention of the Gunmaster's deeds in it, whereas I believed his Longrifle would have been able to inflict some damage.

Also I like your list, and I'm thinking on building a quite similar one swapping, Ironbreakers + IronDrakes to 10 x Warriors + 20 x Thunderers. Does anyone has opinion about it?

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To me, Thunderers are quite meh...

Don't get me wrong, they are good shooting units. But we have Irondrakes right next to them, able to get something down ASAP more effectively, and dealing tremendous Rend.

I like Quarrelers more, for they have a different role in my army : Suppressing fire agains't lightly armour targets while advance and holding the line.

Thunderers have a shorter range and don't deal mass shooting. Psychology is effective when your opponent sees you throwing buckets of dices.

Plus, and that's my little secret, if I want to put some rifles on my list, I prefer some Freeguild Handgunners in a Mixed Order list.

I set my warriors line, and a bunch of 20Handgunners right behind them. Handgunners are tallers and can shoot from behind my lines. And with the piper ability, if anything tries to charge my battleline ahead, they get a free full shooting phase from my riflemen.

Pretty nasty when your opponent doesn't know the trick. ;)

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My favorite unit in our army rn is a block of 30 quarrellers, 60 shots can melt quite a lot of models, especially with some rend added from the runelord. I’ve taken out Neferata in one turn with a group of 30 of them. 

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Posted (edited)

In most cases the differences between Quarrellers and Thunderers is usually only 1-2 wounds even with the Runelord buff on so I find it comes more down to playstyle and aesthetic, personally I like my duardin with boomsticks. Nothing signals the death of something quite like the boom of a duardin handgun.

Generally I find having the built in rend -1 on the Thunderers frees me up a little bit to put rend elsewhere in my army where I need it so that I have more widespread rend, this is especially helpful against armies that get better saves when hit with 0 rend weapons as you can negate it (like deathrattle).

Speaking of which I just finished up my Ice Warden clan's King and his personal retinue of Thunderers. Anyone who attempts to attack the King are met with a withering hail of handgun fire!

 

DSC_1510 (1).JPG

DSC_1514 (1).JPG

Edited by Zadolix
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I like your paint job!

On 3/10/2019 at 12:45 PM, Dammaz said:

Plus, and that's my little secret, if I want to put some rifles on my list, I prefer some Freeguild Handgunners in a Mixed Order list.

In a mixed Order list, I'd see the point yes. Though aren't there any nasty combos with Thunderers, Runelord, Warden and/or Dispossessed allegiance? Like hitting on 3+, +1 from thunderers> 20 , re-rolls 1, wounding on 3+, +1 from Warden King's command ability, rend -2 from runelord?

On 3/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, Ragnar Alpaca said:

My favorite unit in our army rn is a block of 30 quarrellers, 60 shots can melt quite a lot of models, especially with some rend added from the runelord. I’ve taken out Neferata in one turn with a group of 30 of them. 

That's one third of your budget in a 1000 points game, and if they fall below 20 models, that's half the shoots... Ain't that a bit risky?

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1 hour ago, raaaahman said:

That's one third of your budget in a 1000 points game, and if they fall below 20 models, that's half the shoots... Ain't that a bit risky?

Yes it can be risky in certain matchups, but they also hit on 4+ 4+ -1 in melee with a runelord and that saved them alot of times. Most of the people I played didn't expect them to hit that hard for a ranged unit. 

I agree that thunderers can be better, especially if there is a big threat on the board that can easily get in 3 inches or kill 11 models. There just is some fun in rolling 60 dice 😁. I also play bonesplitterz and 90 isn't that much fun anymore especially with rerolls.

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3 hours ago, raaaahman said:

I like your paint job!

In a mixed Order list, I'd see the point yes. Though aren't there any nasty combos with Thunderers, Runelord, Warden and/or Dispossessed allegiance? Like hitting on 3+, +1 from thunderers> 20 , re-rolls 1, wounding on 3+, +1 from Warden King's command ability, rend -2 from runelord?

That's one third of your budget in a 1000 points game, and if they fall below 20 models, that's half the shoots... Ain't that a bit risky?

It would be yeah for 1000 points, I don’t think I would ever take them in 1000 point games, I only play 1500 and usually 2000 point games. 

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6 hours ago, raaaahman said:

In a mixed Order list, I'd see the point yes. Though aren't there any nasty combos with Thunderers, Runelord, Warden and/or Dispossessed allegiance? Like hitting on 3+, +1 from thunderers> 20 , re-rolls 1, wounding on 3+, +1 from Warden King's command ability, rend -2 from runelord?

You get that too with Irondrakes, with only 10 of them and a captain that litteraly wreck Monsters.

That's why I prefer Quarrellers.

Armoured / Big unit ? => Irondrakes

Lightly target / Big blop of thingy ? => 30 Quarrellers.

But I forgot to say, I play mostly in 2k - 2k5 pts.

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6 hours ago, Dammaz said:

You get that too with Irondrakes, with only 10 of them and a captain that litteraly wreck Monsters.

That's why I prefer Quarrellers.

Armoured / Big unit ? => Irondrakes

Lightly target / Big blop of thingy ? => 30 Quarrellers.

But I forgot to say, I play mostly in 2k - 2k5 pts.

I read often read that people like to run a batch of 30 quarrellers and i don't get why they are better than 20 irondrakes.

30 quarrellers (360 pts) : 60 shots 4+/4+/-/1 so you force 15 saves on average.

20 irondrakes (360 pts) : 40 shots 3+/3+/-1/1 (couting the leader as a regular guy) and you force 20 saves on average.

and i don't even count all the better stuff irondrakes have over quarellers (better save, ignore -1 rend etc...).

Am i missing something ?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, brankignole said:

I read often read that people like to run a batch of 30 quarrellers and i don't get why they are better than 20 irondrakes.

30 quarrellers (360 pts) : 60 shots 4+/4+/-/1 so you force 15 saves on average.

20 irondrakes (360 pts) : 40 shots 3+/3+/-1/1 (couting the leader as a regular guy) and you force 20 saves on average.

and i don't even count all the better stuff irondrakes have over quarellers (better save, ignore -1 rend etc...).

Am i missing something ?

Yup, you didn't get my point. ;) I prefer Quarrelers over Thunderers.

I don't prefer Quarrellers over Irondrakes, I love the two of them. Both for differents roles and targets.

If I want something big, armoured, or whatever stone dead (forever) fast, I go for Irondrakes. They are my little short-legged nukes that are going to rip you a new one if you don't pay attention.

On the other hand, if I want something to hold an objective, flank my opponent or even hold the line (!), I LOVE my Quarrelers for that. 30 of them are bulky, tanky and quite good on melee for a shooting unit. And they can do miracles on lightly armoured infantry, with a threatening range of 24". Suppressing, capable of pinning down opponent, holding objectives and the line... What else ?

And don't forget, that's not : 60 shots 4+/4+/-/1 for Quarrelers, but more about : 60 shots 4+ reroll 1 / 3+ reroll 1/ -1 / 1. If I want something dead or crippled, I'll make sure of it.

Edited by Dammaz

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9 hours ago, Dammaz said:

Yup, you didn't get my point. ;) I prefer Quarrelers over Thunderers.

I don't prefer Quarrellers over Irondrakes, I love the two of them. Both for differents roles and targets.

If I want something big, armoured, or whatever stone dead (forever) fast, I go for Irondrakes. They are my little short-legged nukes that are going to rip you a new one if you don't pay attention.

On the other hand, if I want something to hold an objective, flank my opponent or even hold the line (!), I LOVE my Quarrelers for that. 30 of them are bulky, tanky and quite good on melee for a shooting unit. And they can do miracles on lightly armoured infantry, with a threatening range of 24". Suppressing, capable of pinning down opponent, holding objectives and the line... What else ?

And don't forget, that's not : 60 shots 4+/4+/-/1 for Quarrelers, but more about : 60 shots 4+ reroll 1 / 3+ reroll 1/ -1 / 1. If I want something dead or crippled, I'll make sure of it.

How do you get the reroll 1s to wound for your shooting? The 24" range including the move I suppose? Man I miss Grimm Burloksson's extra range for quarrelers and thunderers it really made them a better choice over irondrakes in some army builds.

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24" with move, yes.

And reroll 1s to wound is with Longbeards nearby.

That's a lot of stuff to set accordingly, that's true.

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1 hour ago, Dammaz said:

And reroll 1s to wound is with Longbeards nearby.

"Grots are weedier these days!" Only works in the combat phase or is there a different buff you are referring to?

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The "endless spells" as Khorne manifestations open a lot of options regarding our rune magic. 

I like the idea of runes that we can invoke to the battlefield to manifest some bouble buff/debuff. 

Bonus to run, morale, hit, malus to run, etc etc...

What do you think?

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