AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

[Hallgeir]

Wow, good eyes. It's hard to argue with that. Those trogs are using recycled duardin material. But i may suffer from the same desperation bias as you all.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:08 PM, Ironbreaker said:

I think that if Dispossessed get an update, they need to change the name. Dispossessed is not really copyright friendly. They need something like "Scions of Grungni", "Khazalid Kingdoms", "Grudgebound Grumblers". 

Oh, Khazalid Kingdoms!  I like that!  Actually all three are good. 

I whole heartedly think that the Dispossessed could stand as a single battletome.  They already have an allegiance ability, and I think artifacts and command traits too?  I think they could have their own terrain feature, and I think that the Anvil Of Doom could come back bigger and better than ever!  Plus, think of all the minis that we've had removed over the years.  Thanes with banners, alternative weapon load outs for characters, traditional Duardin artillery (could totally see a future plastic grudge thrower/bolt thrower combo kit), miners...plus, I think that the Duardin should have their own version of the steam tank.  There's so many things they could do!

Bare this in mind...the original anvil of doom was mounted on wheels...no reason a future mini couldn't be the same...but better...like a Duardin version of a Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace...

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Arkanaut Admiral

[RaritanAnon]

So the main issue of Dwarfs and Dispossessed is

A. Movement 

B. Mortal Wound production and protection 

C. Lack of magical offense/objective holding for magical missions

What are your main solutions to these issues? 

[Deepkin]

I think some kind of Rune Golem would still be relly cool. They even hinted at them in the 8th edition BRB, saying that rune-forged, steam-powered "ancestor engines" were being produced to spearhead the dwarfen armies.

Anvil of Doom would be really cool, obvious choice for a center piece. A revised Throne of Power would be another cool choice: perhaps carried on the shoulders of rune golems, or in the form of a massive chariot pulled by steam-powered beasts? 

WHFB Dwarfs have one of the greatest aesthetics ever, particularly the 5th/6th edition models, like the old Ironbreakers (though new ones aren't bad) the old metal Longbeards, the old metal Slayers, and the Lord/Hero models like the one with the two-handed axe and Sutton Hoo helmet.

EDIT: Responding to Raritan;

A: Movement. Use of Runelore to allow Dwarf models to move, or force enemy models to move (or not allow them to move). Perhaps rooting enemy units in place, or making them fail charges, etc. 

Could also use deployment shenanigans: think a unit of miners leading other units onto the board at predetermined "Undgrin Ankor" sites, placed before the game like gravesites. Or something as simple as Rangers forward deploying.

I particularly like movement shenanigans that involve either vanguard deployment via miners/rangers, or stopping/altering enemy movement through runes, since I feel that gives Dwarfs some tactical flexibility while preserving their essential character. 

B: Mortal Wound protecton/production. Make basic warriors worth taking might help, as a sort of cheap "horde bubble" type thing. Not very dwarfy though. Could obviously go the "a Runelord did it!" route with more runelore, or runes on banners, armor, etc. For production: I think this would be where either our artillery or our lords step in. I like having killy, awesome characters, and Dwarf characters in Warhammer could be runed up into monsters (though typically more survivability tanks than DPS machines). So I lean towards giving us back our "item crafting" via runes, and letting us make our heroes into mortal wound machines via their equipment. Runelore would be another obvious choice: stuff like the Rune of Wrath and Ruin for the Anvil of Doom. Or miners with blasting charges hurling their grenades into the enemy.

C. Magic offense. Easy, make runesmiths/lords like Khorne priests and give them a lore they can cast from that are essentially bound spells. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Deepkin

[Sianaiche]

I was thinking of model ideas I would find interesting and these were some of the things I came up with.

Brewmaidens
Heal/rez and buff bravery.
Runesingers
Buff/debuff unit similar to Runelords. Maybe chant to reduce enemy casting rolls. Maybe even once/game summon ancestor spirits for a turn like in Dirge of Dust and Steel.
Endless Runes
Self-explanatory.
Anvilguard
Hammerers-lite that synergize with Runelords (thinking along the lines of either improved Rune Lore buffs, or the ability to not count against a Runelord's 1 buff/turn).
Grudgekeeper
Hero that gives out combat buffs, esp when friendly models are slain. Gives much-needed potential to deal MWs.
Karugromthi/Living Ancestors
2-wound elite infantry, possibly with a Too Stubborn To Die FNP.

As far as Dispossessed weaknesses--I agree with most of that, but at the same time I do feel too that in a sense some of those disadvantages are what make dwarfs, well, dwarfs. We shouldn't be able to do everything.

I like the idea of rooting/slowing enemy units though. While the idea of speedy dwarfs is somewhat comical, I feel the alternative is very dwarfy; to basically tackle other armies down to our level. We're slow? Enjoy rune snares and cave ins, now you are too. We can't cast magic? Courtesy of excellent unbinds and ignores, you may as well not either.

[Ragnar Alpaca]

Quick questions and need some opinions, I have 1500 points of dwarfs now and my most recent purchase was the Ironbreaker kit. I currently only have 10 Irondrakes. Should I build the new box as 10 more drakes or make a new unit of 10 breakers?

[RaritanAnon]

2 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

Quick questions and need some opinions, I have 1500 points of dwarfs now and my most recent purchase was the Ironbreaker kit. I currently only have 10 Irondrakes. Should I build the new box as 10 more drakes or make a new unit of 10 breakers?

I'd probably do another 10 drakes. 10 Ironbreakers isn't enough to hold the line really. 

[Ragnar Alpaca]

20 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

I'd probably do another 10 drakes. 10 Ironbreakers isn't enough to hold the line really. 

That’s what I was thinking, of course I will be getting more of this kit in the future though. Is there really a set number people run breakers at?

[RaritanAnon]

2 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

That’s what I was thinking, of course I will be getting more of this kit in the future though. Is there really a set number people run breakers at?

30 or bust. 

[Furuzzolo]

11 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

That’s what I was thinking, of course I will be getting more of this kit in the future though. Is there really a set number people run breakers at?

I usually run both breakers and drakes in 20 men units! Drakes are way more important to bring on 20, tho.

[Ragnar Alpaca]

It’s settled, more flame throwers then. 

[kenshin620]

22 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

 They already have an allegiance ability, and I think artifacts and command traits too?

Well to be fair, that describes all the GHB Allegiances!

I think thats a big long debate, whether or not GHB means you will get a Battletome. On one hand, you got Nighthaunt and Beasts of Chaos (Brayherd had a GHB).

On the other hand...Soulblight was stuck onto LoN as almost an afterthought...especially since Legion of Blood was also invented.

 

Would be nice if the old rivalry between goblins and dwarfs was returned. (Or skaven, that can work too)

[Shankelton]

I promised myself I wouldn't pick up an unsupported army... but dammit, I'm smitten with Dispossessed. Figure this is the place to ramble/ excitedly grumble about what I want to see!

I adore the elite troops that make up Dispossessed.  Ironbreakers, Longbeards, Irondrakes, ect have such an awesome, and build-on-able aesthetic.  Love the dwarven runes that make up their armor. Storywise I feel there's so much I feel they can tell. Dispossessed marching out of Azyr to retake their legendary Karak's from all manner of squating chaos, skaven, orruk and grot warlords.  Can establish a handful as already retaken, and wow us with the wonders a functioning and restored Karak would bring to the setting. Great way of fleshing out the deep places of all the different realms. Then of course the campaign continues to liberate others, giving the best of both worlds.

What I want to see from the faction is the Golem idea that i've seen floating around. It's already well established that the reforging process was created by Grugni. Retire the warriors, quarrels and thunderers.  Might be plastic, but the cheesy viking helm aesthetic doesn't fit current sculpts at all. Unforged would be retired, neat lore but really the Fireslayers have taken over that look. We have the solid troop foundation, even more-so then Daughters of Kane who were in a similar spot. 

Massive Golems built like brick shithouses, none of this spindly barely touching the base stuff. Little or no wasted negative space. New leaders/Hero models to compliment warden king and Runesmith, Golems to occupy the elite section, and perhaps some good old dwarven artillery... 

It'll break my heart to see them rolled into a free peoples army, whatever idea that ends up taking. They built the free cities, they built much of ayzr and the stormhost bastions. It would be an utter travesty for GW to not explore the Karaks, as both ruins and restored paragons of creation.

If nothing else GW, think of the terrain you could sell! Who doesn't love dwarven ruins? What will the poor gloomspite infest?!

Anyways, rambling aside. Picking up a Warden King tomorrow. Going to start painting one dwarf after another, and maybe one day will get out release. 

In the meantime, any veteren grumblers know if I can build a fluffy, fun list or two without the outdated dwarf kits? 

[Sianaiche]

It's actually not super hard to make a more 'elite' style Dispossessed army, just be aware that MWs will hurt and every lost model will hurt (which both go without saying in an elite list). Losing an 18pt Irondrake sucks a lot more than an 8pt Warrior. I'd probably say for 1000 points to start, something like:

1 Warden King 120

1 Runelord 100

20 Ironbreakers 240 (Battleline)

20 Irondrakes 360

And then either 10 Hammerers for 160 or 10 Longbeards for 100 to give you a second Battleline.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Sianaiche said:

It's actually not super hard to make a more 'elite' style Dispossessed army, just be aware that MWs will hurt and every lost model will hurt (which both go without saying in an elite list). Losing an 18pt Irondrake sucks a lot more than an 8pt Warrior. I'd probably say for 1000 points to start, something like:

1 Warden King 120

1 Runelord 100

20 Ironbreakers 240 (Battleline)

20 Irondrakes 360

And then either 10 Hammerers for 160 or 10 Longbeards for 100 to give you a second Battleline.

Hey! That's the list I recently played! Had to Proxy the Irondrakes though. I decided for the hammerers to have a second line to counter charge. 

You're very right mortal wounds hurt, but positioning was even more important. Strangely I found it hard to lay the objectives at this point level, while I solely play for that in a 1,5K-2K game. Good thing about it is that the Irondrakes, Warden King, even the resilience of the Ironbreakers really shine at a low point level. Less sources of mortal wounds. Even against stormcast, but you really need some punch in combat hence the hammerers as a counter charge unit. Combined with the Warden Kings command ability even 10 can do some work.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

The warrior and thunderer/quarreller kits have 16 models in them at present don’t they?  That’ll need sorted out.  Easily done though; just cram another sprue in there and the jobs a good one!

[RaritanAnon]

Opinions on my color scheme so far? This is just a slightly messy basecoat. Edging in all of those gold bits is going to be a pain to keep neat. 

[amysrevenge]

I like the red everywhere except the boots.

[Furuzzolo]

I very much like it, you're way less lazy than me 🤣

Yeah, the red foots remind me of Smurfs but i'ts consistent with the scheme. Maybe a metallic silver would fit well.

[Kramer]

55 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

Opinions on my color scheme so far? This is just a slightly messy basecoat. Edging in all of those gold bits is going to be a pain to keep neat. 

 

Scheme is very cool! The blue on red is very striking together with the gold. That's going to look very cool on the battlefield. Might I just advice thinning your paints a bit more? You are losing a bit of detail, for example in the beard braids. 

What are you planning for the base? 

[DakkaDude]

2 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

Opinions on my color scheme so far? This is just a slightly messy basecoat. Edging in all of those gold bits is going to be a pain to keep neat. 

[snip]

 

I really like the red, but I think the blue adds one too many colors - you already have gold, silver and red. I think the model would benefit a lot if you painted the metallic parts silver, the handle a dark brown and the runes gold.

That's just my opinion, though and I've got a red/blue army as well so don't let me stop you if you really like it. 😁

Edited January 4, 2019 by DakkaDude

[Shankelton]

So picked up my Warden King, but had a question regarding him.

Most recent info on base size has him (and the other dispossessed hero) at 32mm base. Is that the current size, with the rest of the line on 25mm?

[RaritanAnon]

So I'm trying to decide a good 1k list and I'm having trouble deciding what to buy, beyond 'everything' lol

I have a King, a Runelord, 10 Ironbreakers, 10 Irondrakes, an unbuilt cannon/organ gun kit, an engineer, and 20 warriors. I feel like I'm all over the place. 

Should I pick up more Irondrakes or Ironbreakers? Or go for more warriors and, like, 20-30 thunderers instead? 

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So I'm trying to decide a good 1k list and I'm having trouble deciding what to buy, beyond 'everything' lol

I have a King, a Runelord, 10 Ironbreakers, 10 Irondrakes, an unbuilt cannon/organ gun kit, an engineer, and 20 warriors. I feel like I'm all over the place. 

Should I pick up more Irondrakes or Ironbreakers? Or go for more warriors and, like, 20-30 thunderers instead? 

Ironbreakers are kind of the hero’s right now, that being said I also really love  hammerets as a counter unit. 

I also find the organ gun doesn’t add much on its own. You might want to add a second one if you like it. 

[Furuzzolo]

8 hours ago, Shankelton said:

So picked up my Warden King, but had a question regarding him.

Most recent info on base size has him (and the other dispossessed hero) at 32mm base. Is that the current size, with the rest of the line on 25mm?

Here you find the latest script of the bases size!

Core-Rules-and-Bases-Sizes-EN (1).pdf

 

8 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So I'm trying to decide a good 1k list and I'm having trouble deciding what to buy, beyond 'everything' lol

I have a King, a Runelord, 10 Ironbreakers, 10 Irondrakes, an unbuilt cannon/organ gun kit, an engineer, and 20 warriors. I feel like I'm all over the place. 

Should I pick up more Irondrakes or Ironbreakers? Or go for more warriors and, like, 20-30 thunderers instead? 

We need to know if you want to compete, play narrative, rule of cool army... Do you love irondrakes/longbeards/ironbreakers and want to play them at all cost? 

Going super elite at 1k points is fancy (i play super elite) but not going to win you tournaments. I guess the consensus is to fload the board in wounds with thunderers and warriors. I'm not even sure about the warden king at 1k, i would rather play 2 Runelords.

I don't like to play like this, tho..... You need to be more specific on your target!