AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Barkanaut]

2 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

So is the Mhonar Rush the new Zilfin Clown Car? I might have to break my rule about themes and getting Brokk. I am guessing its more of a 1st Round, go 2nd list, stacking 'First Rule of Grungsson' Command Ability from Brokk and 'Prosecute wars with All Haste' letting you entire army basically run, shoot and charge in the same turn.  Throw in some Aether-khemist buffs here and there, might be a devastating Turn 2 if you are up against an army that wants to run up the board to prepare for an Alpha.

And if you get lucky and win the roll off, 'Who strikes first, strikes hardest' should finish off any straggling leftovers. Kinda sucks that I will need a hero from Barak Nar and the Barak-Mhonar theme on my Zilfin painted army. Oh well.

 

On a side note @Soka Paint, curious to know what the tabletop scene is like in Japan. I saw shops like Yellow Submarine in Denden Town stocking GW products but did not have the opportunity to see any GW shops in Osaka or Tokyo when I was there a couple of months ago. Pricing wise, seems like the Japanese consumers are getting a rough end of the pricing range. I take it the scene is mostly for expats?

 

 

Yeah its pretty clear of all the official ports Mhornar is probably the second most popular other than the default scheme. I don't really think they were ready for how popular it would be as they clearly tried to show off other armies and schemes. Even before it became in vogue I see tons and tons of people painting their models in this port scheme. Here's hoping our popularity will get us a cool character at some point. 

[Amradiel]

On 9/30/2018 at 6:47 PM, Soka Paint said:

Hi everyone. I’m the guy who won the Osaka GT last weekend with a Barak-Mhornar list. I’ve been lurking this thread for a long time and it’s given me loads of ideas, so to give something back I thought I could post a little about my experiences at the tournament. Apologies in advance for the massive post!

 

The event itself was fantastic - very well organised, with amazing tables and prize support. Impressive since it was the first AoS tournament in Japan as far as I know. Shoutout to Champi and his team for a job well done. There were twenty-two players, which will hopefully rise for next year. The vibe was friendly and relaxed, and it was fantastic to just hang out and chat with a bunch of great like-minded people. If you fancy a holiday in Japan, I recommend timing it to coincide with next year’s tournament in September 2019!

 

As for the rules, it was basically everything. All the Realm of Battle stuff, including the realm rules and all the extra realm spells. As a KO player, I was worried about this ahead of time, but as it turned out, I was basically able to ignore all those spells apart from when my opponent was casting them. One less thing to think about for me! There were also plenty of official terrain pieces, for which the warscrolls were used.

 

My list was posted earlier in the thread, but here it is again for reference:

 

 

 

 

This is my first AoS army and I’ve not been playing too long so I’m not actually that experienced a player. In my practice games, I was mainly playing a Death list that I just can’t beat, along with a Nurgle list, so I was expecting to get smashed to be honest. I probably won more games of AoS at the tournament than I had in total up to that point! So take any insight from me with a hefty pinch or two of salt (but hopefully not the usual Kharadron kind!).

 

A quick explanation of some of my choices:

 

I went with the Navigator as my general for the 3-up save as it’d be a blow to lose the Opportunistic Privateers ability early on.  That was also the thinking behind his artefact. A 4-up mortal wound save sounds good, but for some reason he was never targeted early doors and never had a single mortal wound to save!

 

I took the block of thirty Arkanaut Company because I felt it was the best way to get a strong ranged threat. With the rerolls to hit from the general and a buff from the Aether-Khemist, they can put a serious dent in just about anything. With their twenty-four inch range, they can sit back and force the opponent into having to make a decision on how to deal with them. They were often screened with at least one of the other smaller units of Company. 

 

To be honest, Brokk is mainly there because he looks cool, though he does often distract from the real threat, the Endrinriggers. Plus he’s fast, no slouch in combat and can give out the first turn run and charge, which is great coupled with Barak-Mhornar’s first turn run and shoot.

 

The Endrinriggers did a lot of damage over the five games. I often got them stuck into a key threat early and they would generally delete or at least severely weaken it before their inevitable demise. I’d usually put the Khemist buff on them first turn if they were going to be in the thick of it. The two grapnels didn’t do much at all, apart from possibly altering the way my opponents positioned due to the threat of them. I don’t actually think I used them once. They were all I had painted, and I probably would’ve swapped them out for two more saws if I could have.

 

The Ironclad was a great blocker to protect the Arkanaut Company. I’d often jam it in the middle of the board, which often held up the opponent’s units long enough for me to kill them or at least take objectives.

 

I would have loved to take a second Khemist. Buffing the Company and the Riggers in the same turn would be strong, but I just couldn’t find the points. 

 

I’ll try and keep the descriptions of each game brief. I didn’t take notes and it was a full-on weekend, so I might be misremembering some things, particularly after Saturday night’s refreshments...

 

Game One vs Nighthaunt

Border War in Chamon (Rust Plague)

 

I’d never played against Nighthaunt before and expected them to be really hard to kill. Turns out weight of fire does the trick against rend-ignoring ghosties (the Arkanaut Company pistols especially did major work). My opponent had Lady Olynder, a group of Chainrasps, two units of Hexwraiths, two units of six Spirit Hosts, four Tomb Banshees, a unit of eight Myrmourn Banshees and a Mourngul.

 

 

Just after my opponent’s first turn. 

 

 

I gave my opponent the first turn. He brought his two units of Spirit Haunts and several Tomb Banshees from off the board to threaten my big unit of Arkanaut Company, which was positioned behind the Ironclad. The only place he could put the Mourngul was in my right-hand corner of the board. The two units of Hexwraiths took the two middle objectives. Although I usually put Brokk and the Endrinriggers on the boat to start, I didn’t this time because I was worried about his deepstriking units zoning them out. He put his Myrmourn Banshees nine inches from the Riggers. And by some miracle, the only charge he got off was the Myrmourn. If the Spirit Hosts and the Mourngul had made their charges, the match might have gone very differently. Huge slice of luck, that. The Myrmourn did a little damage, but then the Endrinriggers and Brokk slaughtered them.

 

In my first turn, the Riggers and Brokk went to contest the centre objective to my right. They killed most of the Hexwraiths there and managed to take that objective. The Arkanaut Company wiped out one unit of six Spirit Hosts. I then got the double turn - another stroke of luck - and got the second unit too. The Thunderers moved away from the Mourngul so he didn’t do much until the third turn, when he smashed Brokk in one combat. By then, the Riggers had run off to contest the Nighthaunts’ back objective. I managed to kill Lady Olynder and then my opponent had so few things left - and not enough VPs - that it was just a case of mop-up from there.

 

I’d also like to mention that my opponent had come all the way from New York - most impressive!

 

Result: Major Victory

 

 

Brokk about to die. 

 

 

Game Two vs Nighthaunt

Total Commitment in Aqshy (Geysers of Boiling Blood)

 

Nighthaunt again! This time, my opponent brought three of the big heroes, Olynder, Kurdoss and Reikenor, along with a Spirit Torment and a Guardian of Souls. For troops, he’d brought two blocks of Grimghast Reapers, a block of Bladegheist Revenants and a unit of three Spirit Hosts. 

 

I deployed the Thunderers on the objective to my left, most of my force to the right and Brokk and the Riggers in the centre. He had Kurdoss and a big unit in the centre, and one other big unit on either flank. Sorry, but I don’t remember which was placed where. 

 

I gave my opponent the first turn. Since the scenario forbids the use of reserves, he had everything on the board, which proved a massive disadvantage to him. He moved up and then I basically shot the unit on my right flank to pieces with the big block of Company, one other unit and the Ironclad. The last unit was out of range behind a hill, securing the objective. The Riggers got buffed by the Khemist and raced with Brokk towards the block of spooks on my left flank. I just ignored the big block in the centre as they weren’t threatening any objectives. The riggers and Brokk got some ranged damage off but they couldn’t charge because I’d foolishly forgotten to use Brokk’s command ability.

 

The luck was still with me as I got the first turn in the second round. I wiped out most of the things on both flanks, including Reikenor, and got the Riggers on the far-left objective. At that point it was basically game over, and my opponent conceded soon after. I wish I’d remembered to take photos because the Nighthaunt army was really nicely painted in a cool black-red scheme. 

 

Result: Major Victory

 

Game Three vs Beastclaw

Take and Hold in Shyish (Life Leeching)

 

This was a hard Battleplan for my opponent as he’d need at least five models on each of the two objectives to get the major victory. A pretty tall order when his army consisted of fifteen models in total...

 

As in my first two matches, I gave the opponent first turn. I’d deployed quite far back so he couldn’t quite reach me. In my first turn, I shot off one of his three big models and nearly killed his general. Brokk killed a Yhetee or two but the Riggers failed their charge.

 

I got the second turn (again!). I used Who Strikes First, Strikes Hardest to clear the Yhetees so Brokk could shoot and then charge the last big model, which was lurking nearby. The Endrinriggers and Brokk managed to kill it, but not before the Arkanaut Company had finished off the general. After that, Brokk and the Riggers both got crushed but the damage had been done and my opponent conceded. It can’t have been fun being shot off like that but he (like my second opponent) was very gracious in defeat, and fun to play the whole time. 

 

Result: Major Victory

 

Game Four vs Idoneth Deepkin

Three Places of Power in Hyish (No effect)

 

I was really worried about this one against the Deepkin. Not being able to choose our ranged targets really hinders us. And my opponent was a really strong, sharp player. Again, I got properly lucky on priority rolls. I think I won every single one.

 

The Deepkin army had three of the two types of eel, the casty Eidolon, Volturnos, a Tidecaster, a Soulscryer, ten Namarti Thralls and a Leviadon. 

 

My opponent deployed most of his force (except for his defensive eels and the shark) quite far back. This made me decide to take the first turn. I rushed the Khemist onto my leftmost objective. Brokk took the one in the middle, and I ignored the one on the right, which was only covered by the Thunderers. I used Brokk’s command ability to allow the Riggers to charge but I think they failed it (this was Sunday morningso I don’t recall exactly...). I didn’t do much damage that turn, but I had got control of two of the objectives and jammed the Riggers and the Ironclad in a position that would make it hard for my opponent to wrest at least the left-hand side objective back in the next turn.

 

In my opponent’s turn, the Eidolon got moved into range of Brokk by some spell or something. It used one of the realm spells, Banishment, to hurl Brokk off the central objective. I chose the far right-hand side of the board as his destination, with the idea that he could take the objective over there in the next turn. The Deepkin player got the Thralls and the shark into the Riggers. Something charged the Ironclad - maybe the eels? (Again, not sure on this.) A little damage was done on each side.

 

In the second battleround, I took first turn again. The Riggers were still in range of the Khemist’s buff so I used that and then Who Strikes First, Strikes Hardest on them to clear out the Thralls. The shark and one of the smaller heroes then got shot to pieces, which allowed me to charge the Riggers into the other small Idoneth hero. It was right next to the Leviadon and Volturnos so it was a bit of a suicide run, but well worth it to limit the number of models that could score objectives. The offensive eels also got shot off in that turn or maybe in turn three (I think - this match is the least clear in my memory, sorry!) so my opponent only had the Eidolon, Volturnos and the Leviadon left. Brokk also ran onto the right-hand objective in this turn, and because it was smack-bang next to a Citadel Wood, the Eidolon couldn’t couldn’t see Brokk to use Banishment on him in his next turn. 

 

After that, I was lucky yet again to get the third turn priority roll. This enabled me to get another five points on the board. It also meant I was only in combat for the Idoneth’s third battleround blitz for his turn and not mine, which was great. What remained of the Idoneth army absolutely shredded my little sky pirates in his third turn, including the Khemist and the Navigator, but I was basically too far ahead on Victory Points by this point. (Also, Brokk survived with one wound left after tussling with the Eidolon so he could pick up points in the next turn. If he hadn’t, it would have been closer.)

 

It was a tough, well-fought match. I really thought the Deepkin were going to make a comeback at the end, and I needed a lot of luck to carry this one. 

 

Result: Major Victory

 

Game Five vs Maggotkin of Nurgle

Knife to the Heart in Ghur (No effect)

 

The luck ran out here, a bit. My opponent had the Glottkin, four other Nurgle heroes including the tentacled one that can deepstrike in itself and one other unit in the first battleround, five units of five Blightkings and the battalion that gives said Blightkings rend -1. I should also note that we didn’t use any beasts for this (it was optional and not many people brought one, myself included). 

 

My opponent outdropped me and chose to go first. There was a Citadel Wood right in the centre of the board, so that provided cover for most of his advancing forces. On my turn, I shot off a unit of Blightkings (it may have taken two turns, not totally sure). The Endrinriggers missed their charge and then got smashed in the next round. This was the only match they didn’t kill much in.  My shooting took out quite a few of the units of Blightkings as they advanced. By the end of the third turn, the Ironclad had exploded but most of the Blightkings were gone. There were only about five minutes left, and he had killed 900 points worth of my units to the 860 I’d destroyed of his. My opponent won the roll-off and we called it there, agreeing that if we were able to play it through, it was likely he’d do some serious damage with the Glottkin and his other advancing heroes, but not enough to get the major.

 

This was a well-fought match against a great opponent. I was knackered by this point but enjoyed the game nonetheless. 

 

Result: Minor Loss

 

And that was that! I ended up going 4-1 and that was just enough to win the tournament. I was definitely very fortunate at key points, but the list worked well for me and I had five very enjoyable games against some great opponents. I do think KO aren’t the strongest army right now, and you need a chunk of luck to do well, but it is possible to, in a smallish tournament at least. 

 

I hope this wasn’t too arduous a read - it ended up way longer than I’d intended.

 

I wish I’d taken more photos, but for anyone who’d like to see my army, most of it is on my Instagram, soka_paint

 

Thanks for reading!

Thank you for this massive post! Sounds like great and fun games. If you dont have loads of extra light sky hooks. How would you equip the arkanaut company? 

[Soka Paint]

@Amradiel   If I didn't have enough sky hooks, I wouldn't take more than the minimum size units for battleline, personally. More Endrinriggers or maybe a big unit of Thunderers might work instead? You could always convert some sky hooks up, though. Quite a few of mine were made from the guns from the Irondrakes kit (photos on my Instagram if you're interested). I've only ever used the sky hooks so I don't have much of an opinion on the other options for Company. Except that they generally aren't as good as the sky hooks...

 

@Badlander86  The number of Warhammer shops here is growing at the moment. There are four in Tokyo and one in Osaka, plus newly-opened ones in Yokohama and I think Kobe. There are also some independent shops. For the Tokyo area, Giant Hobby in Koenji, Arrows in Suehirocho near Akihabara, and Miniature Forest in Kashiwa are all good. In Osaka, I played a game at Miniature Y&Y, which was a fantastic little hobby shop. The prices are not great at all, and no places I know offer any discounts on the official GW prices. There seem to be quite a lot of Japanese players. Nearly half of the players at the Osaka GT, for example, were Japanese. I don't tend to play much outside my smallish group right now, and not at any shops, but as far as I can tell, some stores have a larger Japanese player base and others have more non-Japanese players. For example, the Warhammer store in Harajuku seems to have mainly expats while the ones in Ikebukuro and Jinbocho have more Japanese players.

[Yoshiya]

Congratulations on the win Soka Paint. Would love to start a KO army but already got my hands full.

 

I'm one of those players from the Ikebukero store! Apart from me I think I've seen maybe two other expats and everyone else is Japanese? I've also visited the Takadanobaba store since they seem to have a ton of older boxes for good discounts/avoiding ordering online and even though the store is tiny everyone I've seen there is Japanese.

Costs are really high here unfortunately and as Soka Paint said, there is no resellers I know if that offer discounts meaning I always just go through the store. This has lead to Kill Team being huge in Tokyo and the vast majority of games played here at the moment are Kill Team games.

Additonally, only AoS2.0 battletomes have been released in Japanese meaning many players have to have an understanding of English which makes theory crafting harder for many of the natives. This means (in my area at least) most players go for rule of cool rather than any serious consideration of rules when making army decisions. As such I'm really looking forward for more battletomes to come out and capture peoples imagination.

[Badlander86]

1 minute ago, Soka Paint said:

@Amradiel   If I didn't have enough sky hooks, I wouldn't take more than the minimum size units for battleline, personally. More Endrinriggers or maybe a big unit of Thunderers might work instead? You could always convert some sky hooks up, though. Quite a few of mine were made from the guns from the Irondrakes kit (photos on my Instagram if you're interested). I've only ever used the sky hooks so I don't have much of an opinion on the other options for Company. Except that they generally aren't as good as the sky hooks...

 

@Badlander86  The number of Warhammer shops here is growing at the moment. There are four in Tokyo and one in Osaka, plus newly-opened ones in Yokohama and I think Kobe. There are also some independent shops. For the Tokyo area, Giant Hobby in Koenji, Arrows in Suehirocho near Akihabara, and Miniature Forest in Kashiwa are all good. In Osaka, I played a game at Miniature Y&Y, which was a fantastic little hobby shop. The prices are not great at all, and no places I know offer any discounts on the official GW prices. There seem to be quite a lot of Japanese players. Nearly half of the players at the Osaka GT, for example, were Japanese. I don't tend to play much outside my smallish group right now, and not at any shops, but as far as I can tell, some stores have a larger Japanese player base and others have more non-Japanese players. For example, the Warhammer store in Harajuku seems to have mainly expats while the ones in Ikebukuro and Jinbocho have more Japanese players.

Man, what a waste I didn't look into the local scene more. I stayed in Ueno for about 3 weeks which is pretty much walking distance to Akihabara. Will look it up again if I am ever back in Tokyo.

Which factions do the Japanese gravitate towards? I would imagine Chaos stuff. We have a couple of Japanese expats in my neck of the woods and both of them play different flavors of Chaos, not sure as a coincidence or just a weird overall preference. I can safely say most of my country are really into Death and Stormcast at the moment.

Regardless, real glad you had fun and did so well. Traveling to a country where English is not the main language while playing a game where communication between players is a key aspect must have been quite an experience (I am assuming you don't speak Japanese, if you do, thats cool). I've only been to regional tournaments in South East Asia, the furthest being Bangkok but for other game systems. Hope to get that experience soon (though the thought of travelling with the Ironclad on that damn flight stand gives me chills)!

[Yoshiya]

I don't wanna derail this thread too much (especially as a non-KO player) so if you wanna talk more message me separately but in my area Chaos daemons are popular because 40k is more popular and daemons can be used in both games keeping costs down.

[Soka Paint]

@Badlander86  The Japanese players at the tournament had a real mixture of factions. No real pattern that I saw. Though as Yoshiya said, not many battletomes have been released in Japanese yet. The owner of the store in Kashiwa told me that a lot of people were starting with Stormcast and Nighthaunt because there are full Japanese translations for those factions. I imagine it'll be similar for the Beasts of Chaos. I've also heard Skaven are popular for some reason. Anyway, like Yoshiya said, let's not get too off the KO track!

[Badlander86]

1 minute ago, Yoshiya said:

I don't wanna derail this thread too much (especially as a non-KO player) so if you wanna talk more message me separately but in my area Chaos daemons are popular because 40k is more popular and daemons can be used in both games keeping costs down.

No worries. Maybe you and Soka Paint can try setting up a game soon if you both are still in Japan. 

With regards to Brokk, the more I look at his stats, the more I wonder why I passed up on him. Maybe I just wasn't feeling his Barak Nar color scheme and that Barak Nar is literally in his name.

Would trying to force Brokk in a battalion be worth it? The extra command point could allow the 1 unit that needs to advance up the board (Endrinriggers) to fly up 20" (deploying 3" smartly from disembarking from a ship, doing a Command Point ability to run 6", get a buff from an Aether-Khemist) etc then flying up to wreck face with both shooting and charging attacks. 

I mean the ability to deal mortal wounds just by charging seems legit.

[Badlander86]

2 minutes ago, Badlander86 said:

Double Post. Sorry

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Badlander86

[Soka Paint]

5 minutes ago, Badlander86 said:

No worries. Maybe you and Soka Paint can try setting up a game soon if you both are still in Japan. 

With regards to Brokk, the more I look at his stats, the more I wonder why I passed up on him. Maybe I just wasn't feeling his Barak Nar color scheme and that Barak Nar is literally in his name.

Would trying to force Brokk in a battalion be worth it? The extra command point could allow the 1 unit that needs to advance up the board (Endrinriggers) to fly up 20" (deploying 3" smartly from disembarking from a ship, doing a Command Point ability to run 6", get a buff from an Aether-Khemist) etc then flying up to wreck face with both shooting and charging attacks. 

I mean the ability to deal mortal wounds just by charging seems legit.

I have a hard time fitting any KO battalion into a list that I personally want to run. They're quite pricey both in terms of the cost of the battalion itself and that of the units that have to be included. There doesn't tend to be much room left for a lot of other stuff, and Brokk isn't cheap either. I did have have a list with Iron Sky Command at one point but decided in the end that I'd rather have more units. Maybe you could just build a list to 1950 points to get that extra command point?

[Badlander86]

1 minute ago, Soka Paint said:

I have a hard time fitting any KO battalion into a list that I personally want to run. They're quite pricey both in terms of the cost of the battalion itself and that of the units that have to be included. There doesn't tend to be much room left for a lot of other stuff, and Brokk isn't cheap either. I did have have a list with Iron Sky Command at one point but decided in the end that I'd rather have more units. Maybe you could just build a list to 1950 points to get that extra command point?

Interestingly enough, I don't think there is a Battalion that allow's Brokk to be included. Not sure if thats because of the power level of Brokk himself or an oversight. I would expect a Barak Nar Iron Sky Command to at least allow him to benefit from the battalion "buff". Passing off Mortal Wounds on a failed Supercharged role seems a bit hilarious.

[GlanceOnASix]

Was on a page ago, diden't realize it was already posted....
Disregard

Edited October 2, 2018 by GlanceOnASix

[Dawnmane]

Tactics question:
I might be going up against a gorefist+mawkrusha IJ list next week. Any ideas for how to take that on as a Kharadron player?

[Nicholunch]

5 hours ago, Dawnmane said:

Tactics question:
I might be going up against a gorefist+mawkrusha IJ list next week. Any ideas for how to take that on as a Kharadron player?

My experience is 9 Riggers was enough to take down the hero and mawkrusher. Was also able to keep the rest of the army at bay with my ranged shooting and boats for cover. It took a few turns but -2 rend from skyhooks and d3 damage was key!

[Nicholunch]

On 9/30/2018 at 12:47 PM, Soka Paint said:

Hi everyone. I’m the guy who won the Osaka GT last weekend with a Barak-Mhornar list.

 

Thanks for reading!

It sounds like going second was a huge win for you. Would you recommend going 2nd or did you choose that based on their deployment? I usually default to going first to shoot as much as I can and charge with my riggers before opponent has a chance to cast any buffs. But after reading your report, sounds like going 1st wasn't the right thing to do.

Thanks for the detailed report!

[Soka Paint]

2 hours ago, Nicholunch said:

It sounds like going second was a huge win for you. Would you recommend going 2nd or did you choose that based on their deployment?

 

I generally considered the opponent's position (and mine) after deployment, the battleplan and their ability to reach me when deciding whether to go first or second. In my third match for example, the one against Beastclaw Raiders, I thought that they could possibly get into my lines on their first turn so I deployed further back. That way, I was able to get more shots off by going second and still be safe. In my fourth match, though, I chose to go first against the Deepkin because they'd deployed quite far back, and because of the advantage of kind of blocking the opponent into their territory and of getting heroes on the objectives early on in that battleplan. I guess for me, it's important to never rule out either option and to make a decision based on the specific circumstances of each matchup.

[Nicholunch]

22 minutes ago, Soka Paint said:

. I guess for me, it's important to never rule out either option and to make a decision based on the specific circumstances of each matchup.

Yeah, totally get that. Appreciate the feedback. You did a great job!

I'm guessing from your report, a round of buffs/magic didn't matter/bother you that much.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Nicholunch

[Lord Veshnakar]

Had an amazing dream last night that we got a new book with a new second battleline infantry called Arkanaut Breachers that have a two handed close range shotgun style weapon like an aether-powered grudge-raker. We also got the ability to parachute in with most of our infantry akin to deepstrike. It was too cool and it led me to realize how much of a missed opportunity our army is from a gameplay standpoint. 

Have there been rumors of a new book anytime soon? I know there are rumors of a Fyreslayer re-release (that might just be a book) but at current our book almost feels like it is more errata than it is normal content. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Lord Veshnakar

[Soka Paint]

57 minutes ago, Nicholunch said:

I'm guessing from your report, a round of buffs/magic didn't matter/bother you that much.

It didn't bother me that much in the games I played. If you're more than 18" away from their wizards, they can't do much damage to you in most cases (I know this isn't always true). If you take the first turn and run forward, they'll often get spells off on you that they couldn't have done if they'd had to go first, so that's a consideration.

Having said that, I originally thought my last match was going to be against a list that had Nagash and also the Prismatic Palisade endless spell. A round of his buffs, etc plus getting that spell down would have bothered me! I would have wanted to go first and try to blitz the big bony fella off the board if at all possible (I've never played a Nagash list so I don't actually know how feasible this is).

[Dawnmane]

13 hours ago, Nicholunch said:

My experience is 9 Riggers was enough to take down the hero and mawkrusher. Was also able to keep the rest of the army at bay with my ranged shooting and boats for cover. It took a few turns but -2 rend from skyhooks and d3 damage was key!

 

[reason for edit: got spoiler tags added to the images so they didn't clog the loading of the thread]

thank you, that sounds like a good idea. I've been working on different ideas for a wall between my gunline and the Ironjawz (the player is one of my best friends so I've played against his army many times, but he's recently bought a mountain of Gruntas so I have to adjust) for a while, including:

- allying in my Skybreakers (Ironbreakers) and Pan-Duardin Relations Diplomatic Officer (Warden King)
- Fielding an Ironclad with Gunhauler(s) to distribute damage done to it

But I think what is suggested by you with the Riggers for cc and what is otherwise talked about here with actually taking second turn, if given the option,  might really help!

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Dawnmane

[Amradiel]

Generally speaking. Are two frigates better than one Ironclad? And is it worth using minimum sized units of Arkanaut company. I don't have extra Light skyhooks. Thinking of using 10 Thunderers, 12 Endrinriggers, 3 x 10 Arkanaut company, 1 Admiral, 2 Khemists and either 2 Frigates or 1 Ironclad. If I take the Ironclad I have 100 spare points. Two frigates leaves 40 points. 

[Stevinacan]

What do you guys think the odds of us getting an updated Battletome in the next 18 months? I know ours came out a year ago and some change but with all the different updates we've seen out battletome is absurdly inaccurate. If it is past 18 months where would we have best chances to see buffs? Generals handbook?

[Badlander86]

14 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Generally speaking. Are two frigates better than one Ironclad? And is it worth using minimum sized units of Arkanaut company. I don't have extra Light skyhooks. Thinking of using 10 Thunderers, 12 Endrinriggers, 3 x 10 Arkanaut company, 1 Admiral, 2 Khemists and either 2 Frigates or 1 Ironclad. If I take the Ironclad I have 100 spare points. Two frigates leaves 40 points. 

I think for what the Ironclad can do and the punishment it can take, the Ironclad is a better option.  with the spare 100 points, you could up your Thunderers.

There is no "generally" speaking superior list at the moment. We know that the Light Skyhooks and Endrinriggers are staples but the delivery system depends mainly on the point size of the game. At 1000 pts, definitely consider dropping boats altogether or at least 1 Frigate. At 2000 pts, if you want to go boat heavy, an Ironclad flanked by Gunhaulers works as you can keep your distance and try gunning down the enemy with Range 24" guns (with the Flagship abilities, you hopefully get better chances at hitting).  

 

[Badlander86]

5 hours ago, Stevinacan said:

What do you guys think the odds of us getting an updated Battletome in the next 18 months? I know ours came out a year ago and some change but with all the different updates we've seen out battletome is absurdly inaccurate. If it is past 18 months where would we have best chances to see buffs? Generals handbook?

Maybe if the demand is high enough for some of the older battletomes like Seraphon or Sylvaneth or Ironjaws. Certainly KO can't be the only faction that was severely affected by changes in AoS2, especially considering that KO had less than a year out before AoS2 came into being.

[Amradiel]

3 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

I think for what the Ironclad can do and the punishment it can take, the Ironclad is a better option.  with the spare 100 points, you could up your Thunderers.

There is no "generally" speaking superior list at the moment. We know that the Light Skyhooks and Endrinriggers are staples but the delivery system depends mainly on the point size of the game. At 1000 pts, definitely consider dropping boats altogether or at least 1 Frigate. At 2000 pts, if you want to go boat heavy, an Ironclad flanked by Gunhaulers works as you can keep your distance and try gunning down the enemy with Range 24" guns (with the Flagship abilities, you hopefully get better chances at hitting).  

 

Ok thank you