AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Shmaravoz]

Cause its a friendly game  😜

[Shmaravoz]

Has anyone used 9 KH with bows. I am building a list with 24 KH (6 syths, 9 Swords and 9 Bows) and curious to know your experience. Specifically, sniping heros (with -1 to hit due to Look out Sir) and killing monsters? Its a huge point investment - 600 points, and would like to know if its worth it. 

I intend to play Heartwood glade with Horn of the Consort, allowing my KH with bows to re-roll hitrolls. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Shmaravoz

[Bululu]

So what now guys, is alarielle worthy again at 600 points, any new sweet lists with all that point reductions to trees and the goddess herself? They really showed some love to sylvaneth this december

[Trevelyan]

8 hours ago, Zanzou said:

so if there's no such thing as terrain that's not friendly, why would it specify that the terrain should be friendly?

Because specific beats general and a hypothetical ability or scenario might result in specific pieces of terrain not being friendly. It’s not so much that terrain has to be friendly as that terrain defaults to friendly in the absence of any rule to the contrary. 

[Trevelyan]

11 minutes ago, Bululu said:

So what now guys, is alarielle worthy again at 600 points, any new sweet lists with all that point reductions to trees and the goddess herself? They really showed some love to sylvaneth this december

Alarielle was worthy at 660, she just wasn’t mandatory. Dropping to 600 certainly doesn’t make her less useful. 

The Obvious way to squeeze the most out of the point changes would be Alarielle plus Lords of the Clan. That comes to 160 points cheaper than before. It still leaves you room for a Forest Folk battalion and all three faction spells.

It looks good as a Gnarlroot glade. You would have six spells per turn (seven with the Spiritsong Stave), a fair amount of accurate ranged attacks and a buttload of healing (consider our healing spells with the Chalice and the Gem on top of the Gnarlroot and Alarielle healing abilities). It lacks serious damage output, but Alarielle can summon some Kurnoths, and accurate Gnarlroot Treelords would carry their weight. I wouldn’t call it a top competitive list, but definitely viable.

The obvious alternative would be to drop Alarielle and the spells (600 + 120 = 720 points) for Drycha and some Kurnoths (320 + 2x200 = 720 points). 

[a74xhx]

1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

The obvious alternative would be to drop Alarielle and the spells (600 + 120 = 720 points) for Drycha and some Kurnoths (320 + 2x200 = 720 points). 

And here's the issue - Drycha +6 Kurnoths still feels like the better choice.  Alarielle is still going to die quickly against good opponents. (Personally, I'd always have her summon those 20 Dryads to bubblewrap her.)

Whilst the point drops are great, and really needed for those units, I don't think they change our top lists, which are essentially Kurnoth spam.

Going to be trying both Ancients and Kurnoth bows in my next friendly games, but I'm not expecting much.

 

Given the points drops, I tried making a list based around Treelords varieties. But you quickly run into max 4 Behemoths limit (It's not possible to take a full Lords Of The Clan battalion in 2000 points due to that limit!).  Now, if Vanilla Treelords were Oakenbow battleline then there are good Treelord lists (Durthu, 2xAncient, 5xVanilla, 2xBranchwraith, Lords Of The Clan). But without it, I still struggle for uses of Vanillas - I'd still rather spend 20 points more for Kurnoths.

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, a74xhx said:

And here's the issue - Drycha +6 Kurnoths still feels like the better choice.  Alarielle is still going to die quickly against good opponents. (Personally, I'd always have her summon those 20 Dryads to bubblewrap her.)

 . . .

Given the points drops, I tried making a list based around Treelords varieties. But you quickly run into max 4 Behemoths limit (It's not possible to take a full Lords Of The Clan battalion in 2000 points due to that limit!). 

Drycha plus 6 Kurnoths hits harder than Alarielle, but remember that it’s Drycha +6 Kurnoths vs Alarielle + whatever she summons (can be 3 Kurnoths) +120 points of spells or other units. Which is better can be highly situational.

Drycha herself is even squishier than Alarielle and is less mobile. Alarielle can die easily if you leave her exposed, but you can keep her alive in many cases if you play more cautiously and don’t overcommit. Gnarlroot helps keep her healthy if your opponent can’t kill her before her next hero phase. I’ve played games where Drycha is awesome, but equally I’ve seen her be underwhelming and die too soon. Alarielle can die early but a 16” fly and the ability to drop a summoned unit at the far end can be an absolute game changer. 

Minimum LotC is all you really need. That said, I’d be interested to see if a second Treelord would be viable, allowing you to split the battalion into two pairs on the table. Maybe dropping Alarielle and Drycha (and even downgrading Forest Folk to Outcasts plus a Branchwraith) to take a second Treelord and a bunch of Kurnoths might work. Far too much theory. 

[a74xhx]

1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

Drycha plus 6 Kurnoths hits harder than Alarielle, but remember that it’s Drycha +6 Kurnoths vs Alarielle + whatever she summons (can be 3 Kurnoths) +120 points of spells or other units. Which is better can be highly situational.

Drycha herself is even squishier than Alarielle and is less mobile. Alarielle can die easily if you leave her exposed, but you can keep her alive in many cases if you play more cautiously and don’t overcommit. Gnarlroot helps keep her healthy if your opponent can’t kill her before her next hero phase. I’ve played games where Drycha is awesome, but equally I’ve seen her be underwhelming and die too soon. Alarielle can die early but a 16” fly and the ability to drop a summoned unit at the far end can be an absolute game changer. 

Minimum LotC is all you really need. That said, I’d be interested to see if a second Treelord would be viable, allowing you to split the battalion into two pairs on the table. Maybe dropping Alarielle and Drycha (and even downgrading Forest Folk to Outcasts plus a Branchwraith) to take a second Treelord and a bunch of Kurnoths might work. Far too much theory. 

You don't even need Outcasts if you only want a single battalion. 

Treelord Ancient (260)
Treelord Ancient (260)
Branchwraith (80)
Branchwraith (80)
9 x Kurnoth Hunters (600)
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
Treelord (180)
Treelord (180)
Lords of the Clan (60)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 123

Or, for the same points and wounds, switch battleline to:

10 x Spite-Revenants (120)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by a74xhx
clicked save too soon

[Landohammer]

 

2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

Drycha plus 6 Kurnoths hits harder than Alarielle, but remember that it’s Drycha +6 Kurnoths vs Alarielle + whatever she summons (can be 3 Kurnoths) +120 points of spells or other units. Which is better can be highly situational.

Drycha herself is even squishier than Alarielle and is less mobile. Alarielle can die easily if you leave her exposed, but you can keep her alive in many cases if you play more cautiously and don’t overcommit. Gnarlroot helps keep her healthy if your opponent can’t kill her before her next hero phase. I’ve played games where Drycha is awesome, but equally I’ve seen her be underwhelming and die too soon. Alarielle can die early but a 16” fly and the ability to drop a summoned unit at the far end can be an absolute game changer. 

Minimum LotC is all you really need. That said, I’d be interested to see if a second Treelord would be viable, allowing you to split the battalion into two pairs on the table. Maybe dropping Alarielle and Drycha (and even downgrading Forest Folk to Outcasts plus a Branchwraith) to take a second Treelord and a bunch of Kurnoths might work. Far too much theory. 

I wish they had taken the opportunity to update Alarielle's summoning table. The 10 Spites remain as a head-scratcher, as does the Tree Revenants and Branchwych to a lesser extent. 

Personally I don't normally compare Drycha + 6 Kurnoths to Alarielle. If we are talking optimizing, then all of your Kurnoth models should just be in your army period lol. Add battleline and characters to taste.

The decision, for me at least, is usually Alarielle vs Drycha+Durthu. 

I agree though that Alarielle can be a liability on the field. She requires careful placement or she will  go down early to experienced players. But Drycha is just as bad. Her wound/pt ratio is pretty bad on paper. (though I would argue her reliability makes up for that)

 

[Gibs]

Dusting off my Sylvaneth this weekend for a semi-competitive games with some friends. Its been awhile and I am borrowing the new book and some models to fill in the gaps in my collection. Any advice would be much appreciated?

Realm: Ghyran     

Glade: Winterleaf

Heroes

• General: TLA
  • Frozen kernel
  • My hearts is ice
  • Regrowth
• Durthu
  • Ghyrstrike
• Drycha
  • Regrowth
• Branchwraith
• Branchwraith

Elites

• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3
• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3
• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3

Batteline

• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5

Battalion: Outcasts

Endless spell: Glade Wyrm

Total: 1950/2000 with +1 CP

Edited December 18, 2019 by Gibs

[Pennydude]

2 minutes ago, Gibs said:

Dusting off my Sylvaneth this weekend for a semi-competitive games with some friends. Its been awhile and I am borrowing the new book and some models to fill in the gaps in my collection. Any advice would be much appreciated?

Realm: Ghyran     

Glade: Winterleaf

Heroes

• General: TLA
  • Frozen kernel
  • My hearts is ice
  • Regrowth
• Durthu
  • Ghyrstrike
• Drycha
  • Regrowth
• Branchwraith
• Branchwraith

Elites

• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3
• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3
• Kurnoth Hunters (swords) x3

Batteline

• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5

Battalion: Outcasts

Endless spell: Glade Wyrm

Total: 1950 points

Personally, I'd go -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -Gladewyrm, + 6 Scythes, +30 Dryads.  That would put you at 1990pts, give you some good staying power on objectives with a 30 Dryad blob, and another solid unit you can use the Frozen Kernal on.   Don't underestimate Dryads when 6s explode because their 2" reach is awesome.  I'm not the biggest fan of the Gladewyrm only because it's a 7 to cast and only heals on a 3+ when you have a unit within its range.

[Gibs]

27 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

Personally, I'd go -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -Gladewyrm, + 6 Scythes, +30 Dryads.  That would put you at 1990pts, give you some good staying power on objectives with a 30 Dryad blob, and another solid unit you can use the Frozen Kernal on.   Don't underestimate Dryads when 6s explode because their 2" reach is awesome.  I'm not the biggest fan of the Gladewyrm only because it's a 7 to cast and only heals on a 3+ when you have a unit within its range.

Appreciate that!

Might need to borrow a few more Dryads now haha

 

Realm: Ghyran     

Glade: Winterleaf

Heroes

• General: TLA
  • Frozen kernel
  • My hearts is ice
  • Regrowth
• Durthu
  • Ghyrstrike
• Drycha
  • Regrowth
• Branchwraith
• Branchwraith

Elites

• Kurnoth Hunters (scythes) x6

Batteline

• Dryads x30
• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5
• Spirit Revenants x5

Battalion: Outcasts

Total: 1990

[Arnied3]

Finally all caught up..again. Really need to keep a better eye on here! 

The Treelord point drops are a huge boon i feel. Alarielle might finally need to be take out of her box now!

[Raist]

What do you think about this list at 1000 points

 

Arch Revenant (General)

- (Warsinger)

Durthu

Wraith

-(Acorn of the Ages)

----

5 spite revenant

5 spite revenant

-----

6 Kurnoth (scythes)

 

 

[Pennydude]

On 12/17/2019 at 5:17 PM, Shmaravoz said:

Has anyone used 9 KH with bows. I am building a list with 24 KH (6 syths, 9 Swords and 9 Bows) and curious to know your experience. Specifically, sniping heros (with -1 to hit due to Look out Sir) and killing monsters? Its a huge point investment - 600 points, and would like to know if its worth it. 

I intend to play Heartwood glade with Horn of the Consort, allowing my KH with bows to re-roll hitrolls. 

Hey Shmaravoz!  I've ran a 1000pt Heartwood list for doubles using the trick you are looking at and it performs shockingly well.  My list was:

Branchwraith (General, Horn of the Consort, Verdurous Harmony)
3 Bow Hunters
3 Bow Hunters
3 Bow Hunters
20 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
Balewind Vortex

I was able to essentially kill a Bloodthirster on turn 1, neuter a Celestial Hurricanum on turn 1, and shoot off a Petrifex Gothizzar Harvester on turn 1 in different games.  Hero sniping can be difficult but it will depend on how much you commit to it.  It's a one-trick pony list but it's a really good trick.  At 2000pts, I'd supplement the Kurnoths with an Arch-Revenant or maybe even 2 Arch-Revs depending on how you run them on the table.  

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Pennydude

[Shmaravoz]

8 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

Hey Shmaravoz!  I've ran a 1000pt Heartwood list for doubles using the trick you are looking at and it performs shockingly well.  My list was:

Branchwraith (General, Horn of the Consort, Verdurous Harmony)
3 Bow Hunters
3 Bow Hunters
3 Bow Hunters
20 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
Balewind Vortex

I was able to essentially kill a Bloodthirster on turn 1, neuter a Celestial Hurricanum on turn 1, and shoot off a Petrifex Gothizzar Harvester on turn 1 in different games.  Hero sniping can be difficult but it will depend on how much you commit to it.  It's a one-trick pony list but it's a really good trick.  At 2000pts, I'd supplement the Kurnoths with an Arch-Revenant or maybe even 2 Arch-Revs depending on how you run them on the table.  

 

Thank you Ponnydude for your email. Look forward to trying this new list!! 

[Pennydude]

4 minutes ago, Shmaravoz said:

Thank you Ponnydude for your email. Look forward to trying this new list!! 

No problem!  As an FYI, my double partner in my 4 games so far was running Beefclaw Raiders.  I'm running my list (may change the B-Wraith spell and endless spell) for the 4-person team event at Adepticon.  My teammates are playing Khorne, Ossiarch Bonereapers, and Flesh-Eater Courts.  

Also, never be afraid to run your Bow Kurnoths into combat to help claim objectives.  They are still as tanky as Scythes and Swords but not a ton of killing power.  I successfully charged an enemy unit with some Bows and because of that, I claimed the objective, 6 models to their 5. 

With the new points changes, I have a new Gnarlroot and Oakenbrow monster mash list I want to try out.

[Shmaravoz]

14 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

No problem!  As an FYI, my double partner in my 4 games so far was running Beefclaw Raiders.  I'm running my list (may change the B-Wraith spell and endless spell) for the 4-person team event at Adepticon.  My teammates are playing Khorne, Ossiarch Bonereapers, and Flesh-Eater Courts.  

Also, never be afraid to run your Bow Kurnoths into combat to help claim objectives.  They are still as tanky as Scythes and Swords but not a ton of killing power.  I successfully charged an enemy unit with some Bows and because of that, I claimed the objective, 6 models to their 5. 

With the new points changes, I have a new Gnarlroot and Oakenbrow monster mash list I want to try out.

Cool. U do it 1 unit of 9 Bow hunters or 3 units of 3?

[Pennydude]

3 minutes ago, Shmaravoz said:

Cool. U do it 1 unit of 9 Bow hunters or 3 units of 3?

3x3.  Bows really need to maximize the Huntmaster's +1 to hit.  That also gives you more flexibility for drops, screens, and charges. 

[Landohammer]

22 hours ago, Pennydude said:

Personally, I'd go -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -3 Swords, -Gladewyrm, + 6 Scythes, +30 Dryads.  That would put you at 1990pts, give you some good staying power on objectives with a 30 Dryad blob, and another solid unit you can use the Frozen Kernal on.   Don't underestimate Dryads when 6s explode because their 2" reach is awesome.  I'm not the biggest fan of the Gladewyrm only because it's a 7 to cast and only heals on a 3+ when you have a unit within its range.

Personally, I really like the Gladewyrm mode, so anytime I have the points leftover I put it in. However I have had mixed results with it in my games. It competes directly with Quicksilver swords, and the swords are great in a meta that is full of chaos. 

The primary benefit, for me at least, is that it can't be turned on you. I can't tell you how many times my own Quicksilver swords or Spellportals have been used against me. I'm like I bought the model, painted it, paid for its points, and casted it, but now its hurting me

One good thing about the higher casting cost it that it takes like an 8 to dispel, so most opponents won't bother attempting it unless they have spare casts.

 

[Pennydude]

5 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

One good thing about the higher casting cost it that it takes like an 8 to dispel, so most opponents won't bother attempting it unless they have spare casts.

Ooh, I didn't think of it that way.  While I think CV 7 is pretty high for the Gladewyrm, I may try it out in my Gnarlroot Monster Mash list because of the potential to heal 2+ monsters at the same time.  I'm gonna be painting mine with a D&D Purple Wurm theme.  

[Landohammer]

Just now, Pennydude said:

Ooh, I didn't think of it that way.  While I think CV 7 is pretty high for the Gladewyrm, I may try it out in my Gnarlroot Monster Mash list because of the potential to heal 2+ monsters at the same time.  I'm gonna be painting mine with a D&D Purple Wurm theme.  

Haha  thats awesome. Yea the Gladewyrm goes from meh to crazy good if you can get it within range of multiple units. The sad part is that it can't actually heal Alarielle because her base is too big 😭

[Pennydude]

6 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Haha  thats awesome. Yea the Gladewyrm goes from meh to crazy good if you can get it within range of multiple units. The sad part is that it can't actually heal Alarielle because her base is too big 😭

Why does her base have to be soooo biiiiig???? You can use her to deep strike in Living City and I was sad when I found that out.  I was lucky to get a spot at Holy Wars here in mid-February and so I need to finalize a 2000pt list AND a 1000pt "sideboard".  I get bonus points during the event for utilizing the sideboard and changing up the lists.  I'm considering doing a more Kurnoth Heavy list and see if I can transition it into Da Monsterz.  I'm currently playing around with a 3 drop Gnarlroot list:

TLA (General, Nurtured by Magic, Nightbloom Garland, Regrowth)
TLA (Chalice of Nectar, Deadly Harvest)
Branchwraith (Spiritsong Stave, Throne of Vines)
Drycha Hamadreth (Regrowth)
30 Dryads
20 Dryads
10 Dryads
Treelord
Spiteswarm Hive
Gladewyrm
Lords of the Clan battalion
Forest Folk battalion
Command point
2000pts

Could drop the command point for another spell.  Would love to fit Geminids in but that would probably require dropping Drycha for Durthu.

EDIT/Addition: The Nightbloom Garland is a concession to OBR catapults.  The bearer isn't visible to enemy units that are more than 12" away.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Pennydude

[Gibs]

Is there actually enough healing to make Tree Lord Ancients and regular Tree Lords viable on mass? They don't hit very hard and with the amount of wounds units can put out these days a few D6 heals isn't going to compensate for that?

From an outsider looking in:

Lords of the Clan - is way to restrictive and should be changed:

• 1-4 Treelord heroes
• 2-4 Normal Treelords
• Normal Treelords become batteline "if" your army does not include behemoths outside this battalion
• Normal Treelords  do not count towards the behemoth limit
• Keep the base benefits of the battalion as they are now
• Bump up the points cost for the Battalion (160?)

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Gibs

[Pennydude]

I would think it would make more sense if they were “Battleline If” in the Oakenbrow glade. The issue is that would give us hyper-mobile battleline monsters. 
 

I do agree that having 2 TLAs kinda sucks because you can’t use each model’s Silent Communion ability.