Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Nasnad]

12 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

9 woods is not uncommon in one turn, 3 woods per wyld wood. If you have acorn of ages, TLA ability and one free to start with that very easy to get 9 on the table. The limitation is range, the amount of terrain already on the table and how spread out the armies are. You may need even more but with 9 woods plus 1.5 terrain per square you won't find much space for more/smaller woods. 

That sure is a lot of woods, don't think i can fit that many woods on our gaming table, we use a lot of custom terrain. Might start with buying a few and see how they fit.

Is it viable to use few woods?

[WABBIT]

2 is ok. sometimes it's better to place one or two rather than 3 woods down. It's all optional. You will learn once you play a few games. If you use large units of Dryads or Revenants you want terrain big enough to cram them all into it along side your hunters and stuff. More woods = more coverage =more hits to enemy units when they are roused to wrath by magic or the sylvaneth spell. More woods means more transport options but note you cannot travel from one base of woods in the same Wyld wood. It has to be a different set of wyld woods  Also Wyld woods must be no more than 1" away from each other so you cannot string them along in a line like a wall (shame). Start with 3 if you can but you will run out quickly. Go for 6 if you can and see if your friends/club has any to lend you their woods in case you run out. Also try wyld wood light armies to begin with to get a feel for them. Sylvaneth are difficult to play at first but a lot of fun once you get it. Enjoy!

 

EDIT: I've made my own woods in the past by drawing around the citadel wood base onto hardboard and cutting it out. Then make your own trees to get the train set trees are cheap on eBay.

[scrubyandwells]

Hey @Lhw, hope you had a good time at Blackout. Any impressions/learnings/takeaways you can share with us on our forest spirits at the event/in GH17? Were you giving Alarielle a go again, or? 

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Gilby said:

 

What about this list? 2 drop. Luminark gives a save after saves on a 6+ against wounds/mortal wounds to all order in 10" (models not units unfortunately but you can choose which model in a unit takes the damage so it's pretty much the same right? ;P). He has a 30" shooting spell with 3+/3+/-2/6 at full health for sniping similar to a Knight Venator. His spell casts on a 6 (but he has +1 to cast) doing D3 mortal wounds to a unit within 18", double that if it has 10+ models, triple if it has 20+ models, so a good anti-horde component too.

 

Seems like an amazing set of rules. Can do 6 wounds of sniping, 9 mortal wounds to a horde and make your dryads/Durthu even more tanky at the same time. Probably want to put him in cover if you pull that off in one turn...

Why bother with the EG. Drop them and be a one drop army, you pay enough for it. 

+ 1 to cast? Does he?

 

 

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Nasnad said:

That sure is a lot of woods, don't think i can fit that many woods on our gaming table, we use a lot of custom terrain. Might start with buying a few and see how they fit.

Is it viable to use few woods?

Same here.. I'm lucky if my first forest can be 3 bases, after that I can usually place a few forests in out of the way places on my side. On enemies side there usually isn't any room at all except in the corners where my abilities usually don't reach.

[BloodTithe]

If anyone is interested, iv done a comparison video on the whole Dryads Vs Eternal Guard debate

 

[Dragon10]

Think I will leave eternal guard out, I just don't like dryads, I'm hoping I don't have to give in and use them.

do you think people will mind me using spite Revs as dryads ?

[Aezeal]

18 minutes ago, Dragon10 said:

Think I will leave eternal guard out, I just don't like dryads, I'm hoping I don't have to give in and use them.

do you think people will mind me using spite Revs as dryads ?

It would be annoying if you also have real revs on the table. Otherwise I'd not mind.

[Aezeal]

Sill wondering about what yall think about relictors as ally.

[Gilby]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

Why bother with the EG. Drop them and be a one drop army, you pay enough for it. 

+ 1 to cast? Does he?

Yeah, could swap them out for another branchwych or 5 tree revenants perhaps for more popping up at the board edge annoyance I suppose. The EG have pretty good survivability though, but probably better to be 1 drop.

And just re-read, no not +1 to cast, just to unbind, sorry. Must have read that as cast and unbind for some reason...

[WABBIT]

4 hours ago, Nasnad said:

That sure is a lot of woods, don't think i can fit that many woods on our gaming table, we use a lot of custom terrain. Might start with buying a few and see how they fit.

Is it viable to use few woods?

Just had an idea if you don't have many wyld woods try the monster mash approach. monsters don't get cover bonuses so they are less useful for a full treelord army and allarielle eats points to keep model count low and heals nearby units D3 wounds so good for support too. She cannot fit in a wyld wood either so even more reason to avoid them. You get one free so use it for alpha blocking or choke points so you can use your spells on anything that goes near them. There are major weaknesses to this list but it will get you started without relying on getting a dozen woods bought and painted.  You get one of each treeman type too and they are all COOL

Leaders
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
Treelord Ancient (300) Item? Maybe general trait or use alarielle?
Spirit of Durthu (400) item?

Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220)
- Scythes Or bows to compensate for lack of shooting and they make good objective defenders.

Behemoths
Treelord (240)

Total: 2000/2000
 

[WABBIT]

16 minutes ago, Gilby said:

Yeah, could swap them out for another branchwych or 5 tree revenants perhaps for more popping up at the board edge annoyance I suppose. The EG have pretty good survivability though, but probably better to be 1 drop.

And just re-read, no not +1 to cast, just to unbind, sorry. Must have read that as cast and unbind for some reason...

EG don't have good survivability in a Sylvaneth army though. They will get eaten by your own wyld woods and spells. If they dont go near woods you wont be able to use them effectively. Save your points for more sylvaneth. Allies are a liability for this army. Dryads are awesome but if you really dislike them so much why not try a kitbash job mixing elven and dryad kits? some thing that looks different from Revenants or dryads or elves but a blend of the 3? There are lots of kit options if you look at the range.   I may try it myself

[mclargehuge]

Hey guys, been playing Sylvaneth for a while but need some advice about where I feel there is a weakness. 

How can I get the most out my Tree-Revenants? I have tried holding them back for a few turns before teleporting them, or even teleporting them in the first turn but whenever they land, they usually end up as paste pretty quickly. I see people with a lot of them in lists so I figure there must be a benefit to taking them.

I am finding at the moment that Alarielle, Durthu and Drycha hang around forever and do most of my damage output while everything else gets taken out fairly quickly.

[WABBIT]

@mclargehuge weaknesses? well sylvaneth monsters are vulnerable to mortal wound spam armies so watch out for those. Clan Skyre and beast claw raiders for example. There may be more weaknesses  but I'd rather let our opponents find out for themselves. We lack shooting options without the kurnoth hunters with bows (who are great).

Revenants are battleline but should not be used like battle line. They are specialists and fulfill several roles many of them suicidal

They pack a sting but die to a stiff breeze. Their strength is their ability to use way pipes and pop up anywhere. You can wrong foot your opponents deployment by putting them far on a flank where you want them to counter deploy then way pipe away somewhere else. This only works once or twice on the same opponent. it's easy to spot and other units in other armies do it so don't rely on it.  They are very good at assassinating weak heroes, war machines, small battleline units and mages. They won't dent a supported main enemy unit or monster so don't try on their own. They are also great objective grabbers and win you games if played right. Protect them and use them to threaten and keep your opponent guessing. Be patient with them you'll figure out their uses. You need to play ay the battle plans as AoS matched play is about objecctives and they can turn uneven match ups on their head. Lose an army but win the game because you played the objective and not the killing game. Just my opinion there are better players here than I.

[Dragon10]

I think Tree Revs are one truck pony but worth it.

teleport than charge war machines or weaker heros like wizards on your first turn 

[Dragon10]

Can I hide a branchwych behind my own units to block line of sight for shooting purposes?

[WABBIT]

You can try but most of the time they can be seen. It's safer to hide them behind terrain. Many players don't even bother looking anymore. If it's in range it's assumed they are visible if only units/models interrupt  LOS. It can be a touch point for arguments so  discuss it with your opponent before you play if you feel it may be contentious.

[mclargehuge]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

They pack a sting but die to a stiff breeze. Their strength is their ability to use way pipes and pop up anywhere. You can wrong foot your opponents deployment by putting them far on a flank where you want them to counter deploy then way pipe away somewhere else. This only works once or twice on the same opponent. it's easy to spot and other units in other armies do it so don't rely on it.  They are very good at assassinating weak heroes, war machines, small battleline units and mages. They won't dent a supported main enemy unit or monster so don't try on their own. They are also great objective grabbers and win you games if played right. Protect them and use them to threaten and keep your opponent guessing. Be patient with them you'll figure out their uses. You need to play ay the battle plans as AoS matched play is about objecctives and they can turn uneven match ups on their head. Lose an army but win the game because you played the objective and not the killing game. Just my opinion there are better players here than I.

Thanks for that. Its how I have tried to use them most of the time but I think I get my timing wrong. As soon I teleport them, my opponent makes a beeline for them and wipes them out in a turn, leaving them having very little impact in the end. 5 wounds and a poor save is hard to look after. When I have had a chance to attack with them, they have done okay but never as well as I had hoped. 

I'll keep working at it. The rest of my list is good, they hold up well generally but I have just noticed that Tree-Revs haven't done as well as they have for others.

[DantePQ]

Ok, I've tested this army 

Alarielle + Verdant's Blessing

TLA + General + Oaken Armour + Regrowth + Gnarled Warrior

Drycha + Squirmlings + Dwellers 

2x5 Tree-Revs

20 Dryads

2x3 Kurnoths with Scythes

 

It wordked pretty well againt SCE and Nighthound, I like how tough it is to play against it. Also it gives many targets to Alarielle's ability along with TLA Command Ability it'squite tough. Also a lot of spellcasting with 5 spells a turn and 5 unbids. I'm not sure it's better then Dreadwood list I'm using but this list works nicely, I'm not sure how it will stack against armies like DoT with a lot of heavy shooting as I won't get 1st turn very often.  

[Lhw]

Hey @scrubyandwells. Good shout to share my experience at Blackout here. We were playing GH2, played all bar knife to the heart. Event was great, as everyone has said elsewhere, @Chris Tomlin did a hell of a job. I had 3 major wins and 2 major losses.

I was using the same list I have used recently, but due to points changes had to swap 3 Scythes for a Gryph Hound. So list looked like this:

Ancient - 300, Regrowth, Gnarled Warrior, Oaken Armour
Alarielle - 600, Verdant Blessing
Branchwych - 80, Throne of Vines, Acorn. 
10 x Dryads - 100
10 x Dryads - 100
5 x Trevs - 80
3 x Khunters with Bows - 220
3 x Khunters with Bows - 220
Gryph - 40
Household - 70
Gnarlroot - 180.

I was joking with people over the weekend that swapping the Scythes for the Hound was upwards progression. Reality is it does make the army even more defensive than before. The Scythes were an amazing road block and, partly because of their potential damage output, could hold up a flank very well. I found myself having to bunker up a lot more than in the past. One of my losses was against a SCE army (Les Martin's) that I have played before and always found tough, but was even harder than in the past as Alarielle was my only form of reliable combat output. Similarly the other game I lost was against Tony Moore's Changehost. Same again here, a list I've always struggled against in the past, but made even more difficult due to the loss of Scythes. I gambled for the double turn against him, got it, and went for one of the flanks, with the idea of sweeping round to his back objective (Battle for the Pass), but simply didn't have enough damage output to make it work. If I'd had the Scythes might have stood more of a chance?

In general, that's how I think we'll find it. We're still strong against the armies we were strong against. I won against FEC, BCR and Nurgle Chaos. Whilst there were some tough moments in those three matches, ultimately they're good match ups for the army still. I think the big change is that the armies we were weak against, we've now become weaker against. I might be proved wrong - early days of course!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to drop Alarielle, which is a bit gutting. I love her, but with the points increase to Khunters, it's harder to justify sinking 600 in to her.  She massively whiffed over the weekend, too. I'm off to Facehammer in 4 weeks or so time and am thinking of running the following:

Ancient - 300, Regrowth, Gnarled Warrior, Oaken Armour
Drycha - 280, Verdant Blessing
Branchwych - 80, Throne of Vines, Acorn. 
20 x Dryads - 200
10 x Dryads - 100
5 x Trevs - 80
3 x Khunters with Scythes - 220
3 x Khunters with Bows - 220
3 x Khunters with Bows - 220
Gryph - 40
Household - 70
Gnarlroot - 180.

Quite similar to before, but get Drycha, 10 more Dryads and Scythes for Alarielle. Initial idea is to use Drycha's Squirmlings as an anti-horde device. I didn't encounter loads of them, but think they will be more popular at FH. 

Final thing (realise this is quite an essay!). Scenario wise;
Duality is amazing for us. Ancient still very hard to kill, makes it great scenario.
Squiggly Line deployment is also a strong one, due to flexibility.
I've really struggled with Battle for the Pass, due to the 20+ model rule (and two bad match ups), but think it could be good for us in theory. 
Scorched Earth will be about not getting flooded early doors and taking advantage of end game. This is one of the few that could get taken away from us and find it hard to catch up. 
Starstrike similar to Battle for the Pass - should be good, but I've had two bad match ups.

Sorry for the incredibly long feedback! Hopefully make some interesting reading. 

[DantePQ]

@Lhw haven't you thought about dropping Gnarlroot ? Especially with Alarielle around ? I posted my Alarielle army above and I think 5 spells a turn is pretty good and then you can fit it another Scythes Hunters or Drycha. With Deepwood spells being quite weak after some woods are placed and 2 units of Hunters (so less targets to bring them back) I think Gnarlroot is quite meh unless you need 1-2 drop army very much. 

But overall I think Dreadwood is nice possiblity right now, ability to bunker objectives is pretty neat along with possibility to take Alarielle + Drycha or Alarielle + Brancwych for extra hero-centric scenarios flexibility 

[Lhw]

Hi @DantePQ. I like your list - think it'll work well. I did try, the preceeding weekend, my old list, without Gnarlroot. It just didn't really work as well. I just think that one of the massive benefits of Sylv is the woods. End game being able to jump between them to claim the win, stopping big brutes (I played 4 stonehorns over the weekend - thank good I had woods to force his movement!), blowing them up with spells, giving Dryads -1. Most importantly, Hunters are slow - need trees to get them places. Without the free drop of a wood from Acorn, I found I didn't have enough - if Verdant Blessing doesn't go off, you're screwed. Having just one wood means no teleporting.

I also like having Household on the Ancient - not being able to retreat from a model with a 2+ armour save, re rolling 1s is great. Being two drop is massive too. I think that's something you might notice with yours. Say you play an Jawz list that outdrops you. They take first turn, get halfway across the board, you can't put a 2nd wood down. You're in bad shape there. Same with a lot of armies. 

Initially I thought the same, dropping it was the solution. From last two weekends of playing, no longer think that's the case. Might be a good list with just 1 battalion, or Dreadwood, or something else, but dropping entirely I'm not so sure. 

[scrubyandwells]

27 minutes ago, Lhw said:

[Write up]

Thanks for the brilliant write up, Laurie! Just off to bed (2:30am here), but will follow up on this soon.

Here was one of my last Alarielle-list iterations...sucks to lose Gnarlroot (getting out dropped could be a serious problem in some matchups), but not sure we can afford it now.

The list has a backup Verdant Blessing, just in case.

Not sure how well 3x10 Dryads will do in new meta, but hoping MSU is still reasonably viable. 

Alarielle
 Regrowth
Drycha
 Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
 Acorn of the Ages
 Verdant Blessing 
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Bows
3 Kurnoth Bows
2000
 

[scrubyandwells]

2 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Alarielle
 Regrowth
Drycha
 Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
 Acorn of the Ages
 Verdant Blessing 
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Bows
3 Kurnoth Bows
2000
 

5 Tree-Revenants could be swapped for 10 Eternal Guard, or could go 2x10 Dryads and 1x5 Tree-Revenants and put in a Waywatcher, and maybe then change one of the Kurnoth Bows to Scythes for x2 Scythes. I'd be concerned about bodies, though. 

[scrubyandwells]

5 minutes ago, Lhw said:

Initially I thought the same, dropping it was the solution. From last two weekends of playing, no longer think that's the case. Might be a good list with just 1 battalion, or Dreadwood, or something else, but dropping entirely I'm not so sure. 

Yeah still uncertain whether we can compete sufficiently well without low-drop count.