Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Forestreveries]

To be fair I don't think they will go that high. 200-220 seems likely 

Yep. I really struggle to fit them into my Dreadwood lists, but partly this is because I like to take at least two Ancients.


That would be much easier with Battleline Spites though.


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Nico]

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The questions surrounding this remind me a little of the drama surrounding Seraphon summoning when AOS first came out. Specifically where players said you had to have a warscroll on the table in order to summon that particular unit. In the FAQ GW ruled the other way. Units could be summoned even if the warscroll wasn't part of your army. 

AOS seems to be a permissive rule set. In 90% of their rulings they seem to lean toward a positive interpretation (bonuses stack for example) only in a few cases has it gone the other way. For that reason, I'm reasonably confident the GW ruling will be a permissive one on the freespirits/dreadwood question

I think a TLA in a household formation is probably wishful thinking though.

More good points. They've done a great job of balancing summoning in the GH.

Let's hope so on Dreadwood at least. I'd also much prefer to have a costly Free Spirits Battalion that could alpha strike rather than a pretty meh one that cannot do so.

[Shorewood]

52 minutes ago, Nico said:

240 would be ludicrous. Maybe 220 if Tree Revenants went down a tad.

I agree, a 60 point increase.... 33% more for the Hunters would be insane.  I honestly think the Kurnoth Hunters shouldn't go up in price cause if they do all of my lists just fall apart.  suddenly I can't take Dryads cause its an expsnsive battline choice, and it would hurt the aesthetic and flavor of the army.  

[Mirage8112]

52 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

240 would be ludicrous. Maybe 220 if Tree Revenants went down a tad.

I don't know, I think the fact they're available in mixed order armies pushes their cost up. What else do you get for 240?

Like 20 glade guard? 2 Dracoth cav? 2 helblasters / organ guns?

These things are comparable or just worse

While I agree with you that these aren't as good or are as good but with a higher points cost, GW game designers don't price things a unit for unit kind of way. In the past GW has priced identical items higher in one army and lower in another based on how the item interacted with other entries in the army. Sure 20 glade guard for 240 isn't as good as 3 hunters for 240, but a mixed order army can take a hurricanium without being shoe-horned into a specific battalion at the moment. Likewise they have access to other things and can build synergies that pure Sylvaneth can't. It's hard to compare apples to apples using units that don't have one of the new battletomes. 

There's also a good chance what whatever elf battletome comes out will include some comparable army designs to bonespliterz, beastclaw raiders, and Sylvaneth since those seem to be the standard from now on. 

If you want to compare point costs it's probably better to compare Hunters with units in the new battletomes. How do Hunters stack up to elite units for Beastclaw raiders and Bonesplitters? 

[Forestreveries]

2 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

While I agree with you that these aren't as good or are as good but with a higher points cost, GW game designers don't price things a unit for unit kind of way. In the past GW has priced identical items higher in one army and lower in another based on how the item interacted with other entries in the army. Sure 20 glade guard for 240 isn't as good as 3 hunters for 240, but a mixed order army can take a hurricanium without being shoe-horned into a specific battalion at the moment. Likewise they have access to other things and can build synergies that pure Sylvaneth can't. It's hard to compare apples to apples using units that don't have one of the new battletomes. 

There's also a good chance what whatever elf battletome comes out will include some comparable army designs to bonespliterz, beastclaw raiders, and Sylvaneth since those seem to be the standard from now on. 

If you want to compare point costs it's probably better to compare Hunters with units in the new battletomes. How do Hunters stack up to elite units for Beastclaw raiders and Bonesplitters? 

As I said in the post you quoted. The post cost isn't too bad an issue in Sylvaneth Allegience armies. They just seem way too cheap in the generic Order armies when you add buffs from Hurricanum or Wildform or whatever else there is out there (which aren't easy to access and harder still to combo up in Sylvaneth Armies) ... why would you take anything else?

 

its the fact that the rest of the alliance loses nothing fromtaking kurnoth (in particular the bows) and gains a huge increase in effectiveness for their points. 

[Forestreveries]

27 minutes ago, Shorewood said:

I agree, a 60 point increase.... 33% more for the Hunters would be insane.  I honestly think the Kurnoth Hunters shouldn't go up in price cause if they do all of my lists just fall apart.  suddenly I can't take Dryads cause its an expsnsive battline choice, and it would hurt the aesthetic and flavor of the army.  

That is sort of the point of the points increase... 

[Shorewood]

Just now, Forestreveries said:

That is sort of the point of the points increase... 

yeah but it would leave an 80 point of nothing in all my lists cause there is nothing I can take to fill it.  Kurnoth Hunters only become too strong when combo'd with the old order models.  I just don't see why sylvaneth armies should be gimped because of buffet players

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

I think you're right! He's disagreeing with Les isn't he? I listened to Facehammer shortly before and assumed he was agreeing with Les. Slapping face to wake self up. To be fair, we changed topic about 5 times since then. I was so convinced it was going to be ruled against Sylvaneth that I must missed the "any".

Yes that is what I said... Any.

1 hour ago, Nico said:

240 would be ludicrous. Maybe 220 if Tree Revenants went down a tad.

I think that would even be too much considering what's running around. I think 180 is more than enough if they can't alpha strike. And only if savage orcs and certain beastclaw monsters get a point raise of 50%.

My hunters haven't done much damage so far (been taking shooters since I only have 3 of em) ofc they didn't die either.

[Mirage8112]

1 minute ago, Forestreveries said:

As I said in the post you quoted. The post cost isn't too bad an issue in Sylvaneth Allegience armies. They just seem way too cheap in the generic Order armies when you add buffs from Hurricanum or Wildform or whatever else there is out there (which aren't easy to access and harder still to combo up in Sylvaneth Armies) ... why would you take anything else?

 

its the fact that the rest of the alliance loses nothing fromtaking kurnoth (in particular the bows) and gains a huge increase in effectiveness for their points. 

Well, Hunters do lose a bit in a mixed order army. They can no longer use the realmroots, and cannot start in the enclaves so they do lose some mobility. You also do not get a free forest in mixed order army so they can't castle up in a forest as easily, and melee hunters will have to cross the board with a 5" move; not spectacular. 

As to "why take any other bow than bow hunters" Bow hunters aren't battleline, so you have to take at least 3 units that aren't hunters, and likely you'll be taking units to buff your battleline so they can actually do something useful in the game (other than unlock hunters). For example, if you wanted to take glade guard to fill all you're battleline, you'll probably take 3 units of 20 (to get the +1 to hit from 20+ models) that alone is 720 pts. Add a hurricanium and your up to 1040 pts. at that point you have plenty of shooting so if you wanted to take hunters, you probably wouldn't take bows. You'd take swords or scythes for melee support. and since the hurricanium is there to allow your shooting units to hit on 2's (pretty important because they wound on 4's) hunters probably won't benefit from the hurricanium. 

That's just one scenario. Granted it's a lot of points to sink into a battleline unit but I've played it and it's super effective. I could build others including bare-bones melee units for battleline and bow-hunters but in the end it comes down to play-style. 

The current point costs for hunters is (i think) comparable to the point costs for units in the newer battletomes. I mean arrowboys are 100 for 10 and you only need 2 units for a Kunning Rukk. Likewise Ironjawz Brutes are the same price; 180 for 5 (and they were the last of the "old" battletomes.) Also Brutes play nearly the same in mixed destruction armies since their battletome doesn't grant them any special allegiance abilities. 

All in all, I wouldn't complain about a 20pt bump for hunters. They are dead hard after all. But I don't think their current pricing is entirely out of line with the newer releases. 

 

[Nico]

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If you want to compare point costs it's probably better to compare Hunters with units in the new battletomes. How do Hunters stack up to elite units for Beastclaw raiders and Bonesplitters? 

 

I can see the logic of this.

 

They are an oddity in that the bow Hunters are the least dependent unit on Sylvaneth Allegiance. I cannot see much use for the other units in mixed armies (maybe Tree Revenants coming in off the board edge)?

I can see that Bow Hunters put crewed cannons and the like out of business except for those cases where you absolutely need rend -2 (e.g. against Sylvaneth armies or Temple Guard). It's really hard to cost crewed artillery since it's so powerful against Bloodbound and Ironjawz and so feeble against Sylvaneth who will pop down and shred the crew from 30 inches away.

I suppose you could use Ancients and Durthus as defensive pieces in an Order bunker (behind a line of chaff and next to a bunch of Protectors with 3 inch range). However, they are slow.

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As I said in the post you quoted. The post cost isn't too bad an issue in Sylvaneth Allegience armies. They just seem way too cheap in the generic Order armies when you add buffs from Hurricanum or Wildform or whatever else there is out there (which aren't easy to access and harder still to combo up in Sylvaneth Armies) ... why would you take anything else?

 

To be clear, Wildform doesn't work on pew pew (you may know this, but just clarifying for others).

The bow hunters are good for Order (better Judicators - although they aren't battleline), but this is hardly the only example of units being far better outside of an Allegiance (Thundertusks, Fanatics, Kunning Rukk is equally broken in pure Bonesplitterz or mixed Destruction). I cannot see the Scythe ones being worthwhile without the mobility from the Sylvaneth allegiance.

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The current point costs for hunters is (i think) comparable to the point costs for units in the newer battletomes. I mean arrowboys are 100 for 10 and you only need 2 units for a Kunning Rukk. Likewise Ironjawz Brutes are the same price; 180 for 5 (and they were the last of the "old" battletomes.) Also Brutes play nearly the same in mixed destruction armies since their battletome doesn't grant them any special allegiance abilities. 

Brutes are pretty poor given the existence of pew pew and Battleshock test. At best they are rock paper scissors good.

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All in all, I wouldn't complain about a 20pt bump for hunters. They are dead hard after all. But I don't think their current pricing is entirely out of line with the newer releases.

This is right. 20 is ok (even with the Free Spirits nerf), 60 is not.

[Mirage8112]

 

20 minutes ago, Nico said:

I suppose you could use Ancients and Durthus as defensive pieces in an Order bunker (behind a line of chaff and next to a bunch of Protectors with 3 inch range). However, they are slow.

 

You could. That might be an effective "castle" formation with Durthu tanking wounds for the TLA and hoping for a double stomp if anything gets too close. Plus a TLA is good choice since he can bring woods onto the table. Albeit at a 40 point cost. But the D man and TLA are 700 some-odd points combined and that's not even accounting for battleline. I would think if you wanted to take both you might as well take a Sylvaneth allegiance. 

I could see taking a unit of spites or two in a mixed order army, or an outcast battalion as a sideboard in a mixed army. They aren't terribly expensive and their abilities make them decent support units. As far as revenants go, without forests they don't have nearly as much mobility. They might be ok harassers but I'm no entirely sold on them for that role. i'm sure that in a mixed order army you could maybe find better and cheaper options. Maybe...

 

16 minutes ago, Nico said:

Brutes are pretty poor given the existence of pew pew and Battleshock test. At best they are rock paper scissors good.

I've seen plenty of players say this. It still amazes me how players don't understand the concept of screening. The maw-krusha can easily screen 10 brutes down the field and can take a punishing amount of fire before losing effectiveness. 

 

[Nico]

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I could see taking a unit of spites or two in a mixed order army, or an outcast battalion as a sideboard in a mixed army. They aren't terribly expensive and their abilities make them decent support units. As far as revenants go, without forests they don't have nearly as much mobility. They might be ok harassers but I'm no entirely sold on them for that role. i'm sure that in a mixed order army you could maybe find better and cheaper options. Maybe...

Battleline Reavers for 160?

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I've seen plenty of players say this. It still amazes me how players don't understand the concept of screening. The maw-krusha can easily screen 10 brutes down the field and can take a punishing amount of fire before losing effectiveness. 

Do you mean blocking line of sight or just blocking melee attacks? The Maw Krusha is also overcosted - really bad command ability. You're right that its damage table is sensational (affecting the move and the impact hits is really good for it).

I'm thinking one Thundertusk taking out 2 Brutes and another one taking out another 2 Brutes and Battleshock being a nightmare at this point whether a single unit of 10 or two units of 5 (alternatively Hunters shooting them up, or Judicators). Even Fyreslayers could take first turn, drop Vulkites in a line and shoot the Brutes to oblivion with a line of Aurics dropped directly behind them (before any immune to battleshock happens.

[Nico]

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You could. That might be an effective "castle" formation with Durthu tanking wounds for the TLA and hoping for a double stomp if anything gets too close. Plus a TLA is good choice since he can bring woods onto the table. Albeit at a 40 point cost. But the D man and TLA are 700 some-odd points combined and that's not even accounting for battleline. I would think if you wanted to take both you might as well take a Sylvaneth allegiance. 

Good points.

The TLA and Durthu really shine as a result of their artefacts, Sylvaneth mobility and lore (for the Ancient). I suspect a Carmine Dragon would be a better investment for a Mixed Order army as a tough beatstick monster.

[Mirage8112]

13 minutes ago, Nico said:

Battleline Reavers for 160?

That's one way to go. 
 

13 minutes ago, Nico said:

Do you mean blocking line of sight or just blocking melee attacks? The Maw Krusha is also overcosted - really bad command ability. You're right that its damage table is sensational (affecting the move and the impact hits is really good for it).

I mean blocking line of sight. Shooting models need line of sight for shots but often i see players just walking models up the center of the field under a withering rain of shots. I'd tell them to use a bigger unit to block line of sight and thus shooting, but I'm not in the habit of cutting my own throat. If they would just move up using terrain and a screening model it would be much harder to whittle them down before they got to CC. But nope. They just want to run up and punch stuff. Typical orcs players. 

The Maw Krusha is expensive, but I've seen it be devastating when used cleverly. It's murder vs MSU armies 

17 minutes ago, Nico said:

I'm thinking one Thundertusk taking out 2 Brutes and another one taking out another 2 Brutes and Battleshock being a nightmare at this point whether a single unit of 10 or two units of 5 (alternatively Hunters shooting them up, or Judicators). Even Fyreslayers could take first turn, drop Vulkites in a line and shoot the Brutes to oblivion with a line of Aurics dropped directly behind them (before any immune to battleshock happens.

Of course there are counters; there should be. Anything being invincible is bad game design. But again if you were up against fyreslayers you should see something like that coming and adjust accordingly. But my point is that screening for line of sight is pretty easy to do and very few players do it (at least in my local meta and the others I've played at.) 

[Ben Johnson]

Hi all, 

I have updated my post with the following photos, I hope this clears up the question of how you deploy Sylvaneth Wyldwoods. 

Happy gaming everyone.

 

[Nico]

Thank you again!

 

[Paul G]

Cheers Ben that's great!


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[Mirage8112]

A picture is worth a thousand "any's, a's, or each other's"!


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[Stevewren]

OK guys, played vs the Beastclaw Raiders today. Two Thundertusks and a Stonehorn playing Blood and Glory. 

I took Craig Namvar's list from Blood and Glory (Alarielle took Regrowth, Drycha took Verdant Blessing)

I put one wood down somewhat centrally - scenario didn't allow for anymore. 

Deployed Kurnoths at the back with Drycha, everything else went in the Realm roots. My opponent gave me first turn (which in hindsight was good as he could have moved into the wood and stopped me arriving. I tried to cast VB with Drycha (failed), so had to decide whether to come down. I probably could have waited, but Drycha could die if Pete moved forward with the Stonehorn and got the double turn which would stop everything arriving. 

Durthu and Allarielle came down, tried to charge the Stonehorn (failed), Kurnoths shot 6 wounds off a Thundertusk. 

Turn 2

BCR go first: Stonehorn charged Durthu and killed him straight away. Tusks moved forward. and hunters and dogs came on at the back to charge Dryads  

I then charged the stone horn with Allarielle. Stonehorn did 12 wounds to me. Dryads arrived, Did some shooting, didn't really kill anything. 

Turn 3: 

BCR went first again, killed Alarielle, three kurnoths, Drycha, and 10 Dryads to grab all four objectives and win the game. 

My question to @scrubyandwells @Forestreveries @Nico and the rest of you is how would you go about fighting the BCR list? Should I have deployed in the Realm Roots? How do I attempt to kill the Stonehorn? 

I don't  know what Craig did with the list to do so well at B&G as it can't move much and doesn't fight that well. It seemed almost un-winnable with the list I took, but this is the list I'd like to take to Heat 1 as it is well painted. 

[MidasKiss]

OK guys, played vs the Beastclaw Raiders today. Two Thundertusks and a Stonehorn playing Blood and Glory. 
I took Craig Namvar's list from Blood and Glory (Alarielle took Regrowth, Drycha took Verdant Blessing)
I put one wood down somewhat centrally - scenario didn't allow for anymore. 
Deployed Kurnoths at the back with Drycha, everything else went in the Realm roots. My opponent gave me first turn (which in hindsight was good as he could have moved into the wood and stopped me arriving. I tried to cast VB with Drycha (failed), so had to decide whether to come down. I probably could have waited, but Drycha could die if Pete moved forward with the Stonehorn and got the double turn which would stop everything arriving. 
Durthu and Allarielle came down, tried to charge the Stonehorn (failed), Kurnoths shot 6 wounds off a Thundertusk. 
Turn 2
BCR go first: Stonehorn charged Durthu and killed him straight away. Tusks moved forward. and hunters and dogs came on at the back to charge Dryads  
I then charged the stone horn with Allarielle. Stonehorn did 12 wounds to me. Dryads arrived, Did some shooting, didn't really kill anything. 
Turn 3: 
BCR went first again, killed Alarielle, three kurnoths, Drycha, and 10 Dryads to grab all four objectives and win the game. 
My question to @scrubyandwells @Forestreveries @Nico and the rest of you is how would you go about fighting the BCR list? Should I have deployed in the Realm Roots? How do I attempt to kill the Stonehorn? 
I don't  know what Craig did with the list to do so well at B&G as it can't move much and doesn't fight that well. It seemed almost un-winnable with the list I took, but this is the list I'd like to take to Heat 1 as it is well painted. 

Our bows do wonders vs the thundertusks, though I struggle vs the battlebrew stonehorn. The player in my group does 2 stonehorn 2 thundertusks fleshed out with 3 x 10 Savage orruks (I think that's about it). I never get through everything and haven't won yet!

Looking forward to peoples advice..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Nico]

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My question to @scrubyandwells @Forestreveries @Nico and the rest of you is how would you go about fighting the BCR list? Should I have deployed in the Realm Roots? How do I attempt to kill the Stonehorn? 

I don't  know what Craig did with the list to do so well at B&G as it can't move much and doesn't fight that well. It seemed almost un-winnable with the list I took, but this is the list I'd like to take to Heat 1 as it is well painted. 

Against BCR, your target selection has to be perfect, otherwise you lose the game badly. See here for example (as well as the other battle reports in that part of the Club section - Death and Fyreslayer pew pew armies regarding BCR):

The same is true of playing against Sylvaneth, as soon as you find your units bouncing off targets or not doing enough damage to kill what you expected only for it to heal up, you're well on the way to losing the game. How many players lob a load of stuff at Alarielle only for it to be spread between her and Durthu and then healed up. On some Battleplans the answer will be to shoot the Dryads off first.

If they have multiple Huskhorns, then you need to kill one per turn reliably. If you only part kill one, you risk them double turning you back and healing it straight back to full health (sound familar to a Sylvaneth player)?

You need to decide whether to commit to killing the Stonelord or to simply ignore it and kite it as best you can. However this list has mininal chaff. I generally go for the latter option with big monsters, unless you have a really strong combo to kill it. Ideally you want it to run into some Tree Revenants or run into some Dryads with Durthu behind it with all the buffs and hope to get -2 to hit on it to alleviate Battlebrew. Meanwhile you need to kill the other threats (Thundertusks) and score objectives etc.. It's a really tall order.

Scenery is definitely your friend for blocking the Stonelords (e.g. see Terry's game 6 on the Livestream against Max, where scenery hampered Max's Stonelord. To take an extreme example, one option to take care of a Stonelord is to set up a Les Martin Cluster (or a triangle see the diagrams above) and have the Hunters teleport down into it. They can then shoot at the Stonelord from relative or even total safety. As MidasKiss said, the Thudertusks are a more immediate threat, so shoot any of them first, at least until they drop to D6 damage from 6 (sorry if this is obvious). I cannot say I've measured it carefully, but it does seem likely that Stonelords would struggle to get through between the tree stumps towards the Hunters in the centre. An Ancient could probably do so too, although he might get stuck himself if he cannot Navigate to another Wyldwood.

Alarielle is only doing about 10 wounds in melee and pew pew in a turn. That might translate to 7 to a Stonelord (because you halve in each phase which helps Alarielle). Conversely, the Stonelord will kill Alarielle without much trouble if she doesn't have mystic shield on (or kill Durthu is he is sucking up wounds). I wouldn't rule out a Stonelord with a double swig killing one and crippling the other due to Solemn Guardian backfiring if it got lucky. If the Stonelord has mystic shield, then half of Durthu's sword swings are going to bounce off him as well.

I'm not a fan of Alarielle lists-wise (only Sylvaneth model I'm not planing to get) or the list your pointing too except for its obvious aesthetic advantages. It's brilliant as a canvas if you can paint as well as you can.

The list throws away the single drop army (which is a huge advantage for Sylvaneth), the artefacts and the better command ability of the Ancient). It also doesn't have a lot of practical ways to increase the number of Wyldwoods. The model count is so low.

If Durthu is the general and artefacts are fixed, then Oaken Armour/Briarsheath and Gnarled Warrior are the go to option (I cannot believe he took Gift of Ghyran even though I can see the synergy). Against Thundertusks, you might want to take Seed of Rebirth so that 2 Snowballs do not equal a dead Durthu and game over. This is also chucking away Alarielle's decent command ability, which makes me question why take her at all?

Was this the army that played against Pano on the Livestream? Craig's obviously a good player. Is he on TGA? 

Rightly for balance reasons, the big bads of the game are hard to use at 2,000 points (especially in the absence of a side board or dual list); and hard to get value out of (especially Big Archaon, Nagash is second worst, then Gordrakk, then Alarielle probably the easiest). I would almost always take Throne of Vines as her spell and then give Drycha Regrowth). This is because you need the +2 to cast on Alarielle for her other 2 spells. Otherwise you will fail mystic shield a lot and that will often cost you the game by itself.

I know you don't want to change the list, but I would be tempted to drop Durthu and switch him for an Ancient and another Wizard, with the Ancient as the general (Oaken Armour, Gnarled Warrior and Regrowth) and the other wizard with acorn and Verdant blessing. You can then set up the other wizard within 2 inches from the back of the board edge (the patented Thundertusk safe zone) and use it to deploy Wyldwoods without any risk of being blocked out of deploying. The Ancient gives you another route to a Wyldwood.    

Sorry I'm struggling to find answers in that list. I don't know what that list could do against Max's list for example (without being able to dictate the first turn).

Aaron @Forestreveries might be better placed to advise as he has used a more similar "monster mash" list. I tend to like a good number of Dryads on the table and 1-2 Ancients and maybe a Durthu or a Drycha.

 

[scrubyandwells]

2 hours ago, Stevewren said:

My question to @scrubyandwells @Forestreveries @Nico and the rest of you is how would you go about fighting the BCR list? Should I have deployed in the Realm Roots? How do I attempt to kill the Stonehorn? 

I don't  know what Craig did with the list to do so well at B&G as it can't move much and doesn't fight that well. It seemed almost un-winnable with the list I took, but this is the list I'd like to take to Heat 1 as it is well painted. 

I'll aim to add some thoughts soon. In general, two Thundertusks + a Stonelord sounds tough but beatable. Personally I'm not a fan of Alarielle lists in tourney play at the moment (maybe if she comes down in price via GHv2, but right now she's extremely high risk, high reward and far too vulnerable to ranged mortal-wound lists). I was a little shocked at how well Craig's list did at B&G because it just doesn't seem very optimal, but clearly he made it work.

The only AoS list I'm completely at a loss against at the moment is Maxine's 3 Huskards on Thundertusk, 1 Frostlord on Stonehorn, 20 Moonclan Grots x3 with 3 Fanatics, and a Moonclan Shaman. That list seems perfectly designed to dismantle the Sylvaneth. Maybe there's something viable with bravery debuffing via Outcasts etc...haven't looked into that yet.

[PJetski]

You need to kill the Grots with shooting and then the Fanatics die with them. Spend the first turn clearing them out or you'll never get a charge off.

Play defensively. If necessary spend the first two turns killing grots and hang back pretty far away from the big monsters. Make sure you have woods on both sides so you can retreat and kite the behemoths for another turn or two.

If you are playing Gnarlroot then bring Teclis to hit the Stonehorn with Tempest and the entire enemy army has to slow down or risk getting picked apart. Teclis is a very effective counter to Beastclaw!

Another good strategy is to absorb their charge with a screen of Dryads (2+ save with reroll1 if you do it right) then counter-charging with Durthu (with Hand of Glory!)

The "Elemental Shield" spell from the Archmage is quite helpful in reducing the damage taken by BCR lists.

[Forestreveries]

OK guys, played vs the Beastclaw Raiders today. Two Thundertusks and a Stonehorn playing Blood and Glory. 

I took Craig Namvar's list from Blood and Glory (Alarielle took Regrowth, Drycha took Verdant Blessing)

I put one wood down somewhat centrally - scenario didn't allow for anymore. 

Deployed Kurnoths at the back with Drycha, everything else went in the Realm roots. My opponent gave me first turn (which in hindsight was good as he could have moved into the wood and stopped me arriving. I tried to cast VB with Drycha (failed), so had to decide whether to come down. I probably could have waited, but Drycha could die if Pete moved forward with the Stonehorn and got the double turn which would stop everything arriving. 

Durthu and Allarielle came down, tried to charge the Stonehorn (failed), Kurnoths shot 6 wounds off a Thundertusk. 

Turn 2

BCR go first: Stonehorn charged Durthu and killed him straight away. Tusks moved forward. and hunters and dogs came on at the back to charge Dryads  

I then charged the stone horn with Allarielle. Stonehorn did 12 wounds to me. Dryads arrived, Did some shooting, didn't really kill anything. 

Turn 3: 

BCR went first again, killed Alarielle, three kurnoths, Drycha, and 10 Dryads to grab all four objectives and win the game. 

My question to @scrubyandwells @Forestreveries @Nico and the rest of you is how would you go about fighting the BCR list? Should I have deployed in the Realm Roots? How do I attempt to kill the Stonehorn? 

I don't  know what Craig did with the list to do so well at B&G as it can't move much and doesn't fight that well. It seemed almost un-winnable with the list I took, but this is the list I'd like to take to Heat 1 as it is well painted. 

That's literally what I took to Rain of Stars as well haha

I'll add some substantial feedback on facing BCR shortly. But I will say it much tougher on a list like that than a balanced Wargrove list.

@donal killed 2 Spirits of Durthu and alarielle when I played him at Age of Santa, all before his second turn combat phase.

Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Forestreveries]

So fighting beastclaw with sylvaneth;


This matchup is a big part of why I am taking the list I am at the moment; the Sisters of the Thorn are such a good equaliser for Destruction.


Your first defence against BCR is blocking models (chaff, bubble wrap, screening, whatever you want to call it)

With uncomped sylvaneth wyldwoods these can also be used to block lanes of advance for the monsters.

Positioning your cheaper units to stop them killing the things that can kill them first, essentially blunting the charge. Dryads and tree revenants will be the guys for this job.

When you deploy don't be afraid to baseline everything. Distance is a big deal.

For most competitive sylvaneth armies, you will have the option to deploy all in one and have choice of first turn.

If you don't then this matchup is super tough.

When I played Donal I deployed super defensively, baselining everything. I had so few units that I felt screening wasn't an option as it would mean I can't compete on the scenario if I lost what few units I had.

The trouble was he had less drops (due to formation) and forced me to go first.

What I should've done on that situation is summon 2 woods and cast mystic shield and inspiring presence then hand back to him

However I (stupidly) moved alarielle and 2 Spirits of Durthu forwards allowing him to get the charge and then potentially the double turn.

So out deploying BCR is important, but don't be caught out if you expect them to run at you and they make you go first and you're not prepared. That was a tough lesson!

One "soft counter" as I guess@nico would call it is giving your Treelords Seed of Rebirth so you know for certain that 2 Thundertusks Snowballs won't kill him in one turn. (Though be aware that the Blood Vultures might knock those last few wounds off!)



***I'll add more to this post as I think of it, but at work so will be drubs and drabs when I can ***


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