AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Rors]

I came across an online proxy shop that sells 10 razorgor for 40 bucks (Aud). Since each model is 55 points I'm wondering about about getting 2 packs for 20 razorgor and that's half an army for dirty cheap and only 20 models to paint.

They seem okay looking at their scroll but objectively worse than the chariots that get better save, move, wounds, and more attacks for only 10 more points.

They do get mortal wounds on 6s when they charge though..

Has anyone had much experience with them?

I'm thinking about taking 30with a bunch of DOs and Shagoths. They can just screen out the board and their mortals might help with problems like nighthaunt.

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) 

1 x Razorgors (55) x20

3 x Dragon Ogors (125) x3

Doomblast Dirgehorn (30) Ravening Direflock (30) 

Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 155 Drops: 26 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Rors

[Maddpainting]

8 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

anyone think the Cockatrice will still be in the next BoC tome?  Wondering if I should bother cobbling together another 2 from some spare Phoenix heads and things.

Its very popular so I would assume yes. 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Rors said:

I came across an online proxy shop that sells 10 razorgor for 40 bucks (Aud). Since each model is 55 points I'm wondering about about getting 2 packs for 20 razorgor and that's half an army for dirty cheap and only 20 models to paint.

They seem okay looking at their scroll but objectively worse than the chariots that get better save, move, wounds, and more attacks for only 10 more points.

They do get mortal wounds on 6s when they charge though..

Has anyone had much experience with them?

I'm thinking about taking 30with a bunch of DOs and Shagoths. They can just screen out the board and their mortals might help with problems like nighthaunt.

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155) 

1 x Razorgors (55) x20

3 x Dragon Ogors (125) x3

Doomblast Dirgehorn (30) Ravening Direflock (30) 

Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 155 Drops: 26 

That's a pretty awesome idea!  Really not sure how it might fare, but with that many tiny individual units romping all over the place, could prove tough to deal with.

[Rors]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

That's a pretty awesome idea!  Really not sure how it might fare, but with that many tiny individual units romping all over the place, could prove tough to deal with.

Yeah I think maybe the list could do okay if you just focused on screening out objectives and blocking their units from moving around the board. In hindsight I think I'd drop two Shagoths and out a Khorne demon prince in there so that the opponent is halving run and charge rolls.

[Lord Krungharr]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:46 PM, Rors said:

Yeah I think maybe the list could do okay if you just focused on screening out objectives and blocking their units from moving around the board. In hindsight I think I'd drop two Shagoths and out a Khorne demon prince in there so that the opponent is halving run and charge rolls.

The Khorne Prince is an excellent idea, except until the new Slaves to Darkness tome comes out and nerfs the crud out of that.

The addition of Soulsnare Shackles could perform similarly, though not as certain as a CA.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Lord Krungharr

[Popisdead]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:12 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

anyone think the Cockatrice will still be in the next BoC tome?  Wondering if I should bother cobbling together another 2 from some spare Phoenix heads and things.

Hard to say.  It had a model in the 1980s (British monster lore) and got a finecast in Storm of Magic in 7th ed WFB.  It was put in our book, but that's slightly a surprise since they could have easily just removed it and not bothered with the Finecast model.

It really comes down to miniature designers and what they come up with.  And so much of our book isn't really up to par regarding the AoS Range which tends to be universally lauded as very good and better than 40k.

I would say however if you have the parts, make one up and use it now if you are playing.  They can be fun in-game and it is unlikely our book will be updated ASAP since we had a Celestial Tome.

[Lord Krungharr]

I imagine there are different species of Cockatrice, just like Cockatoos.  The Mortal Realms are huge and diverse

 

[Dolomedes]

I've been away from the world of Beastmen for a few months (life, summer etc), but I've got my first game tomorrow with GHB 2022/3.

Whilst theory crafting my list, I've stumbled across the updated rules. As a die hard Beastmen player, I didn't expect any rules updates at all because that's just what it is to play Beastmen - I gave up checking.  Fortunately my local GW still has a copy of the White Dwarf with the update in, so I'm off to pick it up.

So it seems is that the herdstone is now disgustingly powerful with it's 'everything gets rend' ability.

What tales have people got from the tabletop? What units have benefitted from this massive power upgrade? Are Gors worth taking yet? Give me your nerdiest meta takes - what works, what doesn't, what surprised you, what was a let down.

Personally, I think the Bestigor brick in Gavespawn looks like it's back to being seriously powerful again. The mutating Gnarlblade Beastlord also looks like it should be making a return (rend -4!) . Warhounds and Centigors also looks like big winners from extra rend, as well as chariots.

The ability to get extra primordial call points from monsters also seems huge. I take 3 chariots on my sideboard as they're only 3 points to summon - they can get right into the thick of things pretty quick (re-roll charges after summon), and make for great screens (4+ save).

Has anyone had success stories with other summonable units?

[Lord Krungharr]

I have found that Gors actually make okay battleliners now with the extra rend; they are still pretty meh, but the new being able to strike whilst within 1/2" of other models in the unit who are within striking distance of the enemy helps a whole bunch with all 32mm 1" reach units.  Bestigors are absurdly good now, especially starting their move with 3" of a Shaman; rend-2 plus the striking thing makes them a super duper threat now, also excellent for a summoned unit, so with a Beastlord General, they could be your Battleline instead.

I'd take a Ghorgon or two every time as they're super cheap for what you get with them, one doing extra rendy monster action, the other could get more Primordial Call points usually.

The one Beast-magic combo that I've had used against me that blew my mind (and my megagargants up) was the Shaggoth with Master of Magic, casting Hailstorm, then the Beastlord he had used Arcane Tome to cast Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws, and the Wildfire Taurus was romping around too.  

I predict however the points costs for some of the Beasts to increase with the next tome.  I also expectd the Herdstone ability to be nerfed a bit to start at a small distance like the old Herdstone and increase over turns.  The entire table getting the extra rend is frankly OP, especially when the units are so absurdly cheap now.  And Protect the Herdstone is about the easiest Grand Strategy to achieve, I am betting that gets altered too somehow, perhaps no enemies within a certain distance instead of it just being still-standing.

 

[The Red King]

Shaggoth with Hailstorm is pretty great. I don't know if it's worth losing gavespawns CA because numbers wise it's better than AoA in most situations but the added consistency would be nice. I'll have to try it some time since I've really moved to a control based list anyway and hailstorm combined with blood-slick ground can really neuter your opponents biggest baddest unit.

Currently I'm running this with the sole intention of clogging things up and getting my bullgor/bestigor into favorable fights. No bounty hunters due to my local meta being really light on veterans and ambushing basically the beastlords whole battle regiment. I think a Dogor or enlightened on disk list is probably actually the best right now but this is what I have AND I really like the brayherd aspect of the army.

 - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
     - Subfaction: Gavespawn
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Beastlord (95)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Unravelling Aura
     - Artefacts of Power: Mutating Gnarlblade
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)*
     - Spells: Hailstorm
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
     - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
     - Hellforged Sword and Malefic Talons
Great Bray-Shaman (100)**
     - Spells: Wild Rampage
BATTLELINE
Bestigors (250)*
     - 2 x Brayhorn
     - 2 x Banner  Bearer
Gors (70)*
     - Banner Bearer
     - Brayhorn
     - Gor Blade and Beastshield
Gors (70)*
     - Banner Bearer
     - Brayhorn
     - Gor Blade and Beastshield
OTHER
Tuskgor Chariots (65)*
Tuskgor Chariots (65)*
Bullgors (260)**
     - Warheard Drummer
     - Warheard Banner Bearer
     - Bullgor Great Axe
Bullgors (260)**
     - Warheard Banner Bearer
     - Warheard Drummer
     - Bullgor Great Axe
Centigors (85)**
     - Brayhorn
     - Banner Bearer
Centigors (85)**
     - Brayhorn
     - Banner Bearer
Ungor Raiders (160)**
     - Brayhorn
     - Banner Bearer
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Wildfire Taurus (70)
TERRAIN
1 x Herdstone (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

[Popisdead]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:32 AM, Dolomedes said:

What tales have people got from the tabletop? 

I would honestly follow the AoS Coach on twitter.  He posts tournament lists and you can see the common threads from list to list.  I think someone was just 4th last night with a BoC that went 4/1 in a tourney.

In 2022 BoC have a 60% WR in tournaments according to the Honest Wargamer's stats people.

Shaggoth and 6 DrOgurs are in nearly all lists though.  Gashrak is still common.  I don't think Gors are in lists.  

Dan Bradshaw,.. as of a month or go or so was 27/27 in the UK Masters scene but he had a heavy side of Tzaangor units which he's always had.  

I haven't played my BoC yet in this edition (Sylvaneth got a new book and treelords and ancients really pull their weight and are BL so that was my focus this summer).

Purple sun is gross.   Less so vs BoC but amazingly gross.  If you have one you have to field it.  Not so much for the rend but the "i rolled a 1, so archaon is removed from the table".

[Lord Krungharr]

Archaon doesn't have the immortal thing suffering only d6 MW vs the Sun?

I'm still guessing Thunderscorn will get a buff in the next BoC tome due to lore and goings on in the Realms.  At least an extra damage per attack on par with regular Ogors.   

We know battalions will go away, and subfactions will not assign garbage mandatory stuff to heroes.  So that is something to look forward to.  

But we also know the Khorne Prince CT will be going away in the winter.  So don't depend on that guy anymore.  

 

[Dolomedes]

On 9/18/2022 at 3:51 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

I have found that Gors actually make okay battleliners now with the extra rend; they are still pretty meh, but the new being able to strike whilst within 1/2" of other models in the unit who are within striking distance of the enemy helps a whole bunch with all 32mm 1" reach units.  Bestigors are absurdly good now, especially starting their move with 3" of a Shaman; rend-2 plus the striking thing makes them a super duper threat now, also excellent for a summoned unit, so with a Beastlord General, they could be your Battleline instead.

I'd take a Ghorgon or two every time as they're super cheap for what you get with them, one doing extra rendy monster action, the other could get more Primordial Call points usually.

The one Beast-magic combo that I've had used against me that blew my mind (and my megagargants up) was the Shaggoth with Master of Magic, casting Hailstorm, then the Beastlord he had used Arcane Tome to cast Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws, and the Wildfire Taurus was romping around too.  

I predict however the points costs for some of the Beasts to increase with the next tome.  I also expectd the Herdstone ability to be nerfed a bit to start at a small distance like the old Herdstone and increase over turns.  The entire table getting the extra rend is frankly OP, especially when the units are so absurdly cheap now.  And Protect the Herdstone is about the easiest Grand Strategy to achieve, I am betting that gets altered too somehow, perhaps no enemies within a certain distance instead of it just being still-standing.

 

@Lord Krungharr Nice insight on Gors. The shield Gors seem worthwhile for 70 points. A question for you or anyone else that's running Gors though - are you still using them as screens in turns 1 or 2? Or are you holding them back so you can cash in on their rend 2 power spike after turn 3? I've always found using the 10 man Gor units as screens is really effective early game, but now they've got some added utility after turn 3, they're a little more reliable as late game objective cappers.

Bestigors were always good if used correctly, but now they're bonkers. I used them in a game on Saturday, but I quickly discovered that sword wielding Kurnoth hunters are even more bonkers. Although Bestigors are super killy now, they still need a little bit of screening and micro management.

I tend not to use my Ghorgons much because they're a pain to transport and can be inconsistent. Their problem has always been the 5+ save, a quickly degrading profile, and tendency to get focus fired because they're terrifying. The new monstrous action looks like it'll make them usable though so I'll try taking it to my next battle.

I ran the Shaggoth with Gnarlblade in my game on Saturday to fill my monster slot. Turns 1-4 he camped the herdstone generating primordial call points by using Primordial Roar and wounding himself. I'd cast his healing spell after. That extra PC point is massive - reliably generating a chariot every turn is a powerful mechanic. Summoning Warhounds is also really strong if they have -2 rend, as your opponent has to react to it. On turn 4, I committed Shaggoth to combat with some Juggernauts that were trying to contest an objective. Shaggoth cast 'Sundering Blades' on himself and waded in. Shaggoth's axe was rend -4 (-1 base, -2 from stone, -1 from sundering blades) and damage 5 (3 base, +2 from Gnarlblade). In one swing he completely deleted 3 Juggernauts. For 155 points, I think it's fair to say that Shaggoth is probably undercosted for what it can do (summon 400 points then delete 300 of your opponents), and I think you're right about the incoming nerf.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:59 PM, Popisdead said:

I would honestly follow the AoS Coach on twitter.  He posts tournament lists and you can see the common threads from list to list.  I think someone was just 4th last night with a BoC that went 4/1 in a tourney.

In 2022 BoC have a 60% WR in tournaments according to the Honest Wargamer's stats people.

Shaggoth and 6 DrOgurs are in nearly all lists though.  Gashrak is still common.  I don't think Gors are in lists.  

Dan Bradshaw,.. as of a month or go or so was 27/27 in the UK Masters scene but he had a heavy side of Tzaangor units which he's always had.  

I haven't played my BoC yet in this edition (Sylvaneth got a new book and treelords and ancients really pull their weight and are BL so that was my focus this summer).

Purple sun is gross.   Less so vs BoC but amazingly gross.  If you have one you have to field it.  Not so much for the rend but the "i rolled a 1, so archaon is removed from the table".

I've checked out some lists on honest wargamer and I still can't quite believe our win rate. Have we ever done this well?

I haven't dabbled much in the additional magic options, but if I can get some more regular games in I'll flex into a box and try out a purple sun. I'm glad it's been upgraded back to it's previous glory of a truly game changing spell if it goes off. As you'll probably remember, one of our only reliable strategies in 8th was leaning into getting Purple sun casted because there was literally nothing else in our army book that could do damage!

[The Red King]

I personally think even with the extra damage output gors are best used as screens with shields. Brayherd ambush means we also have easier access to the only bonus point battle tactic in this season (2 gallatian veteran units in your opponent's territory) depending on deployment map.

Bestigor are amazing damage wise but suffer from needing to be battle line to really benefit and then getting absolutely dumpstered by bounty hunters. Screen screen screen.

Shaggoth sitting on the stone roaring and cutting himself seems the way to go. Heal spell or hailstorm plus end of turn healing means he should be quite happy to do it. Mathematically speaking the Beastlord is actually the most dangerous wielder of the gnarlblade but that's if he can get into a target and fight before them of course.

 

Edit to add: purple sun nerfed and more important I downloaded the arcane cataclysm FAQ. Turns out tzaangor DO have the beasts of chaos and brayherd keyword!

Edited September 21, 2022 by The Red King

[Popisdead]

2 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

I've checked out some lists on honest wargamer and I still can't quite believe our win rate. Have we ever done this well?

I'm not certain the lists are on the Honest Wargamer.  They may be?  I know Rob rants a lot about seeing photos of lists.

AoS Coach on twitter (you can search that in a browser you don't need to be on twitter) has the best tournament recaps for lists and standings.

[The Red King]

I may just be bad at twitter but it seems if you dont have an account you cant scroll that far so unless you look right after a tournament or have a link you won't be able to see the lists.

[Popisdead]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

I may just be bad at twitter but it seems if you dont have an account you cant scroll that far so unless you look right after a tournament or have a link you won't be able to see the lists.

In the App or via a Browser?  

I suppose they changed the access via the web.

[The Red King]

6 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

In the App or via a Browser?  

I suppose they changed the access via the web.

Browser. Which isn't a real problem but worth mentioning since anyone who doesn't have twitter probably doesn't have the app.

[Maddpainting]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:59 AM, Popisdead said:

I would honestly follow the AoS Coach on twitter.  He posts tournament lists and you can see the common threads from list to list.  I think someone was just 4th last night with a BoC that went 4/1 in a tourney.

In 2022 BoC have a 60% WR in tournaments according to the Honest Wargamer's stats people.

Shaggoth and 6 DrOgurs are in nearly all lists though.  Gashrak is still common.  I don't think Gors are in lists.  

Dan Bradshaw,.. as of a month or go or so was 27/27 in the UK Masters scene but he had a heavy side of Tzaangor units which he's always had.  

I haven't played my BoC yet in this edition (Sylvaneth got a new book and treelords and ancients really pull their weight and are BL so that was my focus this summer).

Purple sun is gross.   Less so vs BoC but amazingly gross.  If you have one you have to field it.  Not so much for the rend but the "i rolled a 1, so archaon is removed from the table".

Um no? We are at 53%

[Dolomedes]

12 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Crikey, we're ahead of several factions!

Top work lads!

[Popisdead]

18 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Um no? We are at 53%

based on Maggotkin being so high your period isn't as long as what I had mentioned.

[Maddpainting]

19 hours ago, Popisdead said:

based on Maggotkin being so high your period isn't as long as what I had mentioned.

This is based off the last 100 matches (well 98 technically and 39 players) since the Skaven release, we have only gone up as well not down. I've been checking monthly and never seen over all 60%, now some certain weekends that might have been the case but not over all.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Maddpainting

[The Red King]

I'm not usually the sunshine guy but arguing whether our 3 year old book with models old enough to drink ( I think) has a 53 or 60%win rate is a pretty good spot. Honestly I would hope we're closer to 50 than 60. I wanna feel like I won the game, not my army.

[Dolomedes]

8 hours ago, The Red King said:

I'm not usually the sunshine guy but arguing whether our 3 year old book with models old enough to drink ( I think) has a 53 or 60%win rate is a pretty good spot. Honestly I would hope we're closer to 50 than 60. I wanna feel like I won the game, not my army.

For sure. For once we aren't the bottom 3 whipping boys.

Now where did I put my wallet? 50 Bestigors is nowhere near enough...

[Popisdead]

9 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

This is based off the last 100 matches (well 98 technically and 39 players) since the Skaven release, we have only gone up as well not down. I've been checking monthly and never seen over all 60%, now some certain weekends that might have been the case but not over all.

Hmmm my mistake.  

I wonder what I heard regarding 60% for BoC.  Oh well.