AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Vasshpit]

@Neck-Romantic

Yeah, i agree with all the Dreadblade as an elite wound counter unit. Its been stated here plenty and I wish they would have took that route with them. Its pretty obvious they are not what they were ment to be, whatever that was. 

[MrRoff]

Do you think we'll get any new units/models soon? I know that soulwars and nightvault just came out, and nighthaunts have been getting alot of love in terms of models, but still?

[Tropical Ghost General]

@MrRoff what we currently have is what we always have. It's a lot more than the last edition (6 models including Forge World and malign portents). Unless FW does bring out another model I doubt we'll see any new Death releases at all for this edition of AoS 2.0, as Destruction is in need of some attention and the bulk of the 1st edition armies that have out dated books as well. 

[MrRoff]

12 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

 

Do you think they'll update for example Fyreslayers battletome?

[Espy85]

honestly guys, more than on defense, I would like upgrades in attack. I feel good to be weaker than nagash in recovering wounds and models, if in return they give me an assault army well done. in my opinion, to make things right 2 changes are enough.
1: Reapers-bladegheist-dreadscythes, for the charge roll 3d6 and 10+ wave of terror (only with nighthaunt alliance)
2: enemy units subtract 1 to the bravery for each nighthaunt unit within 6 "up to -3 (terror tactic of 40k night lords).

[Neck-Romantic]

3d6 wave would be too OP as it also increases the threat range.

2d6 with wave on a 7 would be fine for specific units or as an aura buff/spell

[MrRoff]

1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:

3d6 wave would be too OP as it also increases the threat range.

2d6 with wave on a 7 would be fine for specific units or as an aura buff/spell

I think wave on a 7 would be way to easy and strong, atleast 8-9 or make so you just can attack before the combat phase, but not both.

[Espy85]

the charge with 3d6 would only make our attack OP, but we would still be weak in defense, and this can balance things. and anyway it would be only on specific units, not on the whole army.
however, December is near, we hope santa claus will bring good faq

[Tropical Ghost General]

9 hours ago, MrRoff said:

you think they'll update for example Fyreslayers battletome?

Maybe. I think they might do a combined dwarfs, like BoC. 

8 hours ago, Espy85 said:

enemy units subtract 1 to the bravery for each nighthaunt unit within 6 "up to -3 (terror tactic of 40k night lords).

Yes to this. Not to 3d6, that's too OP. 

[Espy85]

Maybe you're right on 3d6, I did not think that this would give us the ability to load enemies over 12 ". However, now I sent an email to the gw to ask how the coven Throne and I took advantage of suggestions.

[MrRoff]

55 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

Maybe you're right on 3d6, I did not think that this would give us the ability to load enemies over 12 ". However, now I sent an email to the gw to ask how the coven Throne and I took advantage of suggestions.

How the coven throne what?
What email did you send to?

[Espy85]

I hope they tell me how the coven throne works, to know if the artifacts and the traits of influence affect all the attacks of the model or only of the vampires. I sent the email to the GW FAQ service. aosfaq@gwplc.com

 

[MrRoff]

1 minute ago, Espy85 said:

I hope they tell me how the coven throne works, to know if the artifacts and the traits of influence affect all the attacks of the model or only of the vampires. I sent the email to the GW FAQ service. aosfaq@gwplc.com

 

What artifact would you give to it?
Because most artifacts make you pick 1 of the heroes melee weapons and that become's the relic weapon. So you could choose anyone of her or the thrones attack, since it's not a mount.

[Espy85]

4 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

What artifact would you give to it?
Because most artifacts make you pick 1 of the heroes melee weapons and that become's the relic weapon. So you could choose anyone of her or the thrones attack, since it's not a mount.

Saccharine Globe of Soulblight ad +1 to hit and to wound for all weapon of Hero, and many Command Traits of Legion of Blood add 1 extra attacks or other bonus for all weapon of general.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Espy85
Mistake

[MrRoff]

1 hour ago, Espy85 said:

Saccharine Globe of Soulblight ad +1 to hit and to wound for all weapon of Hero, and many Command Traits of Legion of Blood add 1 extra attacks or other bonus for all weapon of general.

Are you sure the relic says : Ad +1 to hit and wound for all the heroes weapons? And not just ad +1 to hit/wound for this weapon.
For example a nighthaunt relic that does the same says: Headsman's Judgement: Add 1 to the hit roll and wound roll for this weapon.

[Espy85]

Yes, i sure.  This is a problem by first edition of aos.  In soulblight The glob add +1 to hit and wound for all attacks of Hero, and command trait Killing blow add mortal wound for each 6+ wound roll. This combo with coven throne is OP. The spectral horde make mortal wound each  5+ to hit and to wound, the vampire make mortal each 5+ to wound.  In last 2 years gw ignore  the problem.

Sorry for bad english

[MrRoff]

27 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

Yes, i sure.  This is a problem by first edition of aos.  In soulblight The glob add +1 to hit and wound for all attacks of Hero, and command trait Killing blow add mortal wound for each 6+ wound roll. This combo with coven throne is OP. The spectral horde make mortal wound each  5+ to hit and to wound, the vampire make mortal each 5+ to wound.  In last 2 years gw ignore  the problem.

Sorry for bad english

Sounds really strong, what is spectral horde? Googled it but couldnt find anything

[Espy85]

Spectral horde is the ghost that move the coven. The right name is spectral host. My mistake sorry.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Espy85
Mistake

[MrRoff]

14 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

Spectral horde is the ghost that move the coven. The right name is spectral host. My mistake sorry.

But the spectral hosts etheral weapons on Coven Throne only does mortal wounds on a 6+, giving it a relic or a trait dosen't change the number to +5

[Espy85]

6+ is editable if you have an object or a stretch that gives you +1. there is no "unmodified" word

[MrRoff]

6 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

6+ is editable if you have an object or a stretch that gives you +1. there is no "unmodified" word

What object would modify it like that? Any examples?

[Espy85]

The Saccharine Goblet. Artefact of Soulblight alliance. The description says that at the beginning of the combat phase you can declare that the hero drinks from the Saccharine Goblet, from then on add 1 to the hit rolls and wound rolls of all the hero's melee weapons. With the throne a problem arises, in fact the whole model is a hero, so he will add 1 to hit and wound rolls of all his melee weapons, including the included spectral host, which would normally do mortal wounds with a roll to hit equal to 6+, but thanks to the artifact will be able to do them at 5+. The best combo is with the killing blow command line that gives the possibility of adding 1 mortal wound to the normal damage for each result to wound by 6+, which thanks to the artifact would drop to 5+. With this combo the throne does:
Spectral Host 9 attacks to hit 4+ (Mortal Wound 5+) to wound 3 + (+ 1 mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
Handmaiden 8 attacks to hit 2+ to wound 2+ (+ 1mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
Vampire Queen (first melee weapon) 4 attacks To Hit 2+ To Wound 2+ (+1 mortal wound for every 5+) Rend -1 Damage 1
Vampire Queen (second melee weapon) 1 attack to hit 2+ to wound 3+ (+ 1mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
It is a combo apparently over power, but it must be taken into account that it is feasible exclusively with soulblight alliance, a faction that currently deploys a maximum of 20 models (VLOZD Coven Throne and 3x5 Blood Knight as battleline make 1460 pts and 17 models), and with a single model, I think that until now the GW has deliberately ignored the problem, since it precisely makes overpower a single model, but not the army in which it is usable, which in fact does not make great results. Both legions and Malign Sorcery have other items that allow similar things, but they do it only once per game, or they make you choose a single melee weapon. For example, the +1 to hit Shysh sword works on only one of the hero's melee weapons, while the Legion of Night's pure blood vial allows you to add 1 to hit rolls and wounds of all melee hero's weapon, but only once per game.
But now things could change, in the new warscroll cards the GW is also inserting the detailed description of the model, specifying what is to be considered Hero and what equal to the mount (and therefore does not benefit from bonuses arising from Command Traits  and Artifacts), as done with Olynder and his banshee maids, they will probably do the same with the throne. At least i Hope

[MrRoff]

14 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

The Saccharine Goblet. Artefact of Soulblight alliance. The description says that at the beginning of the combat phase you can declare that the hero drinks from the Saccharine Goblet, from then on add 1 to the hit rolls and wound rolls of all the hero's melee weapons. With the throne a problem arises, in fact the whole model is a hero, so he will add 1 to hit and wound rolls of all his melee weapons, including the included spectral host, which would normally do mortal wounds with a roll to hit equal to 6+, but thanks to the artifact will be able to do them at 5+. The best combo is with the killing blow command line that gives the possibility of adding 1 mortal wound to the normal damage for each result to wound by 6+, which thanks to the artifact would drop to 5+. With this combo the throne does:
Spectral Host 9 attacks to hit 4+ (Mortal Wound 5+) to wound 3 + (+ 1 mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
Handmaiden 8 attacks to hit 2+ to wound 2+ (+ 1mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
Vampire Queen (first melee weapon) 4 attacks To Hit 2+ To Wound 2+ (+1 mortal wound for every 5+) Rend -1 Damage 1
Vampire Queen (second melee weapon) 1 attack to hit 2+ to wound 3+ (+ 1mortal wound for every 5+) Rend - Damage 1
It is a combo apparently over power, but it must be taken into account that it is feasible exclusively with soulblight alliance, a faction that currently deploys a maximum of 20 models (VLOZD Coven Throne and 3x5 Blood Knight as battleline make 1460 pts and 17 models), and with a single model, I think that until now the GW has deliberately ignored the problem, since it precisely makes overpower a single model, but not the army in which it is usable, which in fact does not make great results. Both legions and Malign Sorcery have other items that allow similar things, but they do it only once per game, or they make you choose a single melee weapon. For example, the +1 to hit Shysh sword works on only one of the hero's melee weapons, while the Legion of Night's pure blood vial allows you to add 1 to hit rolls and wounds of all melee hero's weapon, but only once per game.
But now things could change, in the new warscroll cards the GW is also inserting the detailed description of the model, specifying what is to be considered Hero and what equal to the mount (and therefore does not benefit from bonuses arising from Command Traits  and Artifacts), as done with Olynder and his banshee maids, they will probably do the same with the throne. At least i Hope

Old frightfull touch:
Frightful Touch: Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ or more for the Spectral hosts Ethereal weapons, that attack inflict 1 mortal wound instead of the normal damage. (So the attack ends, don't make a save or wound roll)

 

New frightful Touch:
If the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with Spectral hosts Etheral weapons is a 6, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound and the attack sequence ends. ( Do not make a wound or save roll)

 

Either way your trait or relic dosen't drag down the Frightful touch ability for the weapon lower, since it's an effect on its own.
It only gives the attack +1 to hit/wound it dosen't effect Frightful Touch.
And would you roll a 6, it does 1 mortal damage and that's it, you don't roll for wound with that attack, the attack sequence ends.

Edited November 19, 2018 by MrRoff

[Espy85]

The throne does not have a new warscroll cards yet, so it still has the old frightfuul touch, so it's editable, that's why I say there will be new warscroll cards for LoN too. Already updating the frightful Touch you would solve the question.
It's true that with a roll of 6+ to hit the attack sequence ends, but for all attacks that hit 4+ you could then make mortal wounds (in addition to normal damage) on the roll to wound.
We hope the new warscroll cards will arrive soon even for Nagash, or maybe they will write it in the new FAQs that I believe will arrive in December.

[MrRoff]

6 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

The throne does not have a new warscroll cards yet, so it still has the old frightfuul touch, so it's editable, that's why I say there will be new warscroll cards for LoN too. Already updating the frightful Touch you would solve the question.
It's true that with a roll of 6+ to hit the attack sequence ends, but for all attacks that hit 4+ you could then make mortal wounds (in addition to normal damage) on the roll to wound.
We hope the new warscroll cards will arrive soon even for Nagash, or maybe they will write it in the new FAQs that I believe will arrive in December.

Sadly the relic/trait still dosen't change the +6 to a +5 for frightful touch, it only makes it easier to hit/wound with the weapon, it dosen't effect frightful touch, since it's an ability on its own.

AND no, if you would roll a +4 you would hit, then if you would roll a +6 on to wound it would NOT make a mortal wound since the frightful touch ability clearly states: 

• Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ or more for the Spectral hosts Ethereal weapons, that attack inflict 1 mortal wound.
  
  Only on hit rolls, not wound rolls

Edited November 19, 2018 by MrRoff