AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[NaturalSix]

Salutations. Former 40k cheesemonger crawling out of retirement after 10-odd years of wargaming inactivity (not picking a great time for it, I know, but still, when the bug bites...), switching systems for the chance to build an army with NO VEHICLES! FEC have caught my fancy but I have a couple of innocently newbish questions:  Q1) does semi-competitive play typically involve bringing along ALL the possible summoning options for your heroes, in addition to your actual list? Seems like a lot of models to paint before unlocking a 2k army... 😮 Q2) Are there any feasible blisterskin lists that don't focus on flayers? I know they're battleline but +2" movement on everything seems exploitable in interesting ways, or am I overthinking things and the grand courts should just spam their associated unit? I've never played AOS, just deciding what to build and paint after SC, Archregent and 10 extra ghouls. Thankye kindly! 

[Feii]

FCE are gonna get new rules in the next Broken Reqlms supplement Teclis book, presumably its release date is gonna get announced this saturday.

[Honk]

As stated above, with all the new releases threatening to overthrow the old truths, wise words are:

buy some SCs, and relax while painting and assembling, then get some small games in and see how things develop.

10 hours ago, NaturalSix said:

Q1) bringing ALL possible summoning options

No, with a little bit of yes.
If you‘re summoning a courtier, there is little reason not to call in a varghulf.

flayers or horrors , I think flayers are faster and better, but a lonely unit of three is not really a threat for anything. If your enemy has no good save, horrors in the general vicinity of an abhorrent can dish out quit some pain. And for objectives 10/20ghouls are nice. 

In binary it is best to bring all your options, but in reality you can plan ahead only bring those you think you’ll need.

10 hours ago, NaturalSix said:

Q2) feasible blisterskin lists no flayers?

Sure, +2 movement is always nice and useful... whatever your list, rampaging horrors or 8“ ghouls... 16“ menagerie 😻

 

10 hours ago, NaturalSix said:

deciding what to build and paint after SC, Archregent and 10 extra ghouls.

the answer is always one more SC 😅 

Royal menagerie list: GkoTg, regent, 4Tg, battalion...1980, 3 drops Tgs heal 2d3/turn , if you can table your opponent turn 3, you might make enough points to barely win

 

I have never had any success with ghoul hordes, their output is just not good enough, but maybe I’m doing it wrong...

 I love horrors vs low save armies, like nurgle, undead with the abhorrent reroll to hit...

flayers are great imo, give them extra attacks, frenzy and their mortal wounds alone will hurt, also their screams are nice for low bravery screening units and when stuck in combat even better...

Magnetizing flayers/horrors is only for the gifted, those arms are model specific, so a pain to organize, just as a heads up, I failed horribly 

 

just play with what you built and see how you like it.

[NaturalSix]

Thanks for the prompt and detailed advice! I'll try and get some games in before asking too many questions  Yeah I've never been a magnet guy, though I keep meaning to learn, planning some conversions too which would make magnetising even more unlikely. Not so keen on the Tg spam list for hobby reasons, much prefer the mid-sized models over Largehammer™ but that's just personal preference. One makes an awesome centrepiece, though. I like the idea of a balanced horror-flayer mix as a flexible force to learn with, with some min sized ghoul units for babysitting objectives. A pair of varghulfs seems like a nice conversion project going forwards... 

[Feii]

8 minutes ago, NaturalSix said:

Thanks for the prompt and detailed advice! I'll try and get some games in before asking too many questions  Yeah I've never been a magnet guy, though I keep meaning to learn, planning some conversions too which would make magnetising even more unlikely. Not so keen on the Tg spam list for hobby reasons, much prefer the mid-sized models over Largehammer™ but that's just personal preference. One makes an awesome centrepiece, though. I like the idea of a balanced horror-flayer mix as a flexible force to learn with, with some min sized ghoul units for babysitting objectives. A pair of varghulfs seems like a nice conversion project going forwards... 

you can find a smash bat list going online which can be played with 12 crypt horrors to fill it out. 

[Kyriakin]

Tom @ Warhammer Weekly saying that a source told him that FEC Endless Spells are not long for this world.

Also, a less clear hint that the book is potentially also on life-support

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kyriakin

[Joseph Mackay]

54 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Tom @ Warhammer Weekly saying that a source told him that FEC Endless Spells are not long for this world.

Also, a less clear hint that the book is potentially also on life-support

The spells thing makes no sense

unless Fec become part of Soulblight Gravelords then that makes no sense either. Fec aren’t being retired

[Kyriakin]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

The spells thing makes no sense

unless Fec become part of Soulblight Gravelords then that makes no sense either. Fec aren’t being retired

That's what they assumed. The "why" part of the conversation is speculation, though.

However, the timing makes sense. Maybe it's another Orruk Warclas situation, where they are folded together and retain their individual identity, which would basically represent a new FEC book.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kyriakin

[ireland012]

Well..... I’m just now reading up on this post.    Does anyone have a picture of a converted flayer that looks like a varghulf???
 

Trying to think come up with a cheaper way of creating 2 varghulfs instead of purchasing them.   Plenty of flayers and horror sprues to work with 

[Joseph Mackay]

1 hour ago, Kyriakin said:

Tom @ Warhammer Weekly saying that a source told him that FEC Endless Spells are not long for this world.

Also, a less clear hint that the book is potentially also on life-support

Where was this said btw, I’m curious because some people I know would bet their lives on something they said

[Kyriakin]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Where was this said btw, I’m curious because some people I know would bet their lives on something they said

From around the 26:50 mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wntft9BSmBc&ab_channel=VinceVenturella

[Joseph Mackay]

Hmm well that’s an odd one.

I suspect if there’s any truth to this, Flesh-Eaters are being rolled into Soulblight Gravelords in some way (Orruk Warclans style maybe as a seperate allegiance but useable in the main faction too). Fec aren’t being retired, that’s a fact* they have rules in the next Broken Realms book as well as the newest White Dwarf (I think it’s Fec anyway)

*not so much a fact as such, but I don’t believe Fec are going anywhere 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Joseph Mackay

[Kyriakin]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Hmm well that’s an odd one.

I suspect if there’s any truth to this, Flesh-Eaters are being rolled into Soulblight Gravelords in some way (Orruk Warclans style maybe as a seperate allegiance but useable in the main faction too). Fec aren’t being retired, that’s a fact* they have rules in the next Broken Realms book as well as the newest White Dwarf (I think it’s Fec anyway)

*not so much a fact as such, but I don’t believe Fec are going anywhere 

I would guess FEC stay in some form or other, but wonder if Blisterskin fits a combined Castlevania style Death faction.

[Craze]

I have to say that I really like the thought that FEC would be rolled into the Gravelords thing...if it is made well.

[Feii]

when is the new WD coming out?

[Feii]

I am all for Fec to be rolled into Gravelords IF! you can still play  pure FeC lists if you want. 

[Joseph Mackay]

37 minutes ago, Feii said:

when is the new WD coming out?

Friday I think (for NZ anyway)

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

The "why" part of the conversation is speculation, though.

And that scares me the most, because next to my FEC Clans stands a big LoN army.

First of all I don’t know why they even touch FEC, production costs are super low with their multi-kits, the faction is well received and (the only REAL reason) attracts new players... as in buying new models. A widely played faction might sell the book and some new additional pieces, but to start a new FEC army, that’s GDubs goal...

Second, although I like the idea of a „together we stand in undeath“ faction, it is a bad sign for the size of the Gravelords publishing. If they really roll it into one book, a bunch of it will be FEC and I‘m not sure the second half will deliver a well designed Soulblight society.

Sure, keep the crazy strigoi out of things, make them allies again, but dragons, carsteins and necrach are kinda divers and judging from their latest releases and boxes, new and IP tight sculpts are ordered. If you‘ll leave too much old stuff in, revenue is not as expected, ditching the second release of blingbling, like slaneesh just got.

not very thrilled about that

[Craze]

41 minutes ago, Honk said:

Sure, keep the crazy strigoi out of things, make them allies again, but dragons, carsteins and necrach are kinda divers and judging from their latest releases and boxes, new and IP tight sculpts are ordered. If you‘ll leave too much old stuff in, revenue is not as expected, ditching the second release of blingbling, like slaneesh just got.

not very thrilled about that

As sad as it might be, I guess we should not expect the Oldhammer structure of vampiric society to be transported into AoS. 

Just  taking the rumour of putting everything into one book as a reference point from which to speculate, I would guess that it will be something of a Warclan book: We get the feral vampires, running rampant through rotten kingdoms with their mordant minions and we will get the aristocratic vampires, ruling cities and kingdoms in Big N's stead, who are necromants and warriors. And we can play a combined force of both, who are called to war by Big Ol' Rattlebones himself.  

Of course this all is (relatively) baseless speculation.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

I guess we should not expect the Oldhammer structure of vampiric society to be transported into AoS. 

QfT...

as the äealwes and duwuardyn showed us, legolas and gimli have left the building, and Honolulu soulcatchers or furry airbenders are a thing, next to naked sauna rage...

and that is fine with me, as long as (fingers crossed) castlevania style vamp-lycanthrop goodness arrives and not some uninspired bs .

and the discussion from, I dare say well versed and connected neckbeards, kinda hints at GW taking shortcuts, trying to push other games, instead of throwing out the big madness „lurkers of Shyish“

[Craze]

40 minutes ago, Honk said:

...and that is fine with me, as long as (fingers crossed) castlevania style vamp-lycanthrop goodness arrives and not some uninspired bs .

Thats also what I hope for and combined with blood-mad naked cannibals it would make for a fantastic battletome I guess.

[EMMachine]

8 hours ago, ireland012 said:

Well..... I’m just now reading up on this post.    Does anyone have a picture of a converted flayer that looks like a varghulf???
 

Trying to think come up with a cheaper way of creating 2 varghulfs instead of purchasing them.   Plenty of flayers and horror sprues to work with 

I don't have a picture of a converted Flayer (because it would basicly be a Crypt Infernal Courtier). What I have is a picture of a Vargulf Courtier based on the Plastic Daemonprince.

It's mostly the Daemonprince (his wings in the place where the arms would normally be)  and the head + and the skulls on his back are from the Cryptflayer/Crypthorror Box.

On 2/12/2021 at 12:42 PM, Joseph Mackay said:

on another note, discussion of the Archregent, what do people think of him? Personally I thought he was fine at 200pts, and in my opinion the only reason gw put him up to 240pts was because people were spamming 6 of them and people complained about him being ‘op’ or undercosted. I’m aware he can summon a 200pts unit, but compared to the Ghoul King, I don’t think his warscoll is THAT much better to justify such a difference. I think 160pts for the Ghoul King and 200pts for the Archregent was the right amount. If he had to be nerfed then I’d rather they changed him summon ability to 10 Ghouls instead of 20.

On a somewhat related note, I really feel like gw need to start imposing some lore based restrictions on lists other than named characters (eg each Fyreslayer Lodge only has a single Runefather, so if you take multiples you should lose access to  the lodge rules, or you just can’t take more than one. Same thing with the Archregent, I’m pretty sure the lore implies there’s only ever one in a particular Court at a time)

Many Armies have such a problem looking from the loreside.

An Archregent is basicly a patriarch who rules over multple courts (which are ruled by Abhorrent Ghoulkings).

The same with a lodge, that normally has 1 Runefather and 1 Runemaster, Or Beastclaw Raiders where an Army would normally have 1 Frostlord and 2 Huskards on Stonehorn instead of the 3 Frostlords on Stonehorn.

The problem is most likely if you can make a model unique without stripping the options for Command Traits and Artefacts.

Edited February 18, 2021 by EMMachine

[Svalack]

Im surprised if it is happening, the teclis book is containing FEC rules so why would they publish rules for a faction getting squatted within months. Unless the gravelords are much later in the year, maybe post AoS 3rd ed.

Secondly how would they work in a combined book. They are all deluded because they share the same bloodline. If they do a mixed vampire book would they add passive abilities to each warscroll or a big index of alleigeance abilities for each vampire bloodline? Im guessing we would just lose feeding frenzy completely, it just seems like a whole lot of written rules going to waste. Though in a way i can understand why - we have like 5 kits. I would have preferred the range expanding instead, its not like death have too many armies right now.

[Feii]

we are getting a WD this friday with new LRL vs FEC lore and warscroll battalions and maybe we get more info this saturday hopefully.

[Svalack]

I know little about FEC / Vampire lore - what would happen if Ushoran is destroyed? Would it mean no more new abhorrents and they start to die out or is it something like the delusion is suddenly gone completely?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Svalack