AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

In my last few games vs KO and Lumineth, the Terrorgheist has simply been a big pin cushion. 

That is his/ her main function...

will try out the smashbat at 2k 

aar, GkoTg, VC, 2x6flayers, 3horror, 2x10 ghouls +CP...

let‘s see how that works, 6 flayers are enough to do something and the GkoTg is also a nice threat. 
maybe I‘ll slingshot the flayers first and then the bat in Round two 🤔 and with +2 CP some feeding frenzy can be done

[Liquidsteel]

Depending on how the uk lockdown goes I want to test double Royal Mordants, as well as whatever white dwarf/teclis brings.

 

I've been working on a deepkin army since Christmas to try to combat this shooting meta, both armies bring fast units that fly and hit hard, which I've discovered to be my favourite way of playing. 

[mrteige]

11 minutes ago, Honk said:

That is his/ her main function...

will try out the smashbat at 2k 

aar, GkoTg, VC, 2x6flayers, 3horror, 2x10 ghouls +CP...

let‘s see how that works, 6 flayers are enough to do something and the GkoTg is also a nice threat. 
maybe I‘ll slingshot the flayers first and then the bat in Round two 🤔 and with +2 CP some feeding frenzy can be done

I have made close to the same list with a ghoul king and 9 flayers instead of 2x6 flayers. My thinking is that this will maximize the Smash of the Smashbat.

Pleace do let ud know how your list works out

[Svalack]

I've played a couple of games with a smashbat list with a corpse cart, wasn't that blown away so far. Perhaps i was trying to alpha strike too much but then i worry if my opponent moves forward i have to deal with unbinding and defensive buffs. I had a game vs ironjawz opponent wasn't familiar and let me kill a mawkrusha and half a unit turn 1, it still went the rounds on the objectives though as the rest of the army hit hard and has good saves. I had a second game against StD where nothing went right. Opponent deployed well and had a list of lots of small units, and there wasn't really any standout things to take out. 370 points summoned next to a backfield objective killed 3 chaos warriors too lol.

I ran aar, GkoTg, VC, 6 flayers, 3 horrors, 40+10 ghouls, cart.

 

I might try less ghouls, Horrors and regular ghouls just never seem to do anything for me, you have to be lucky just to get a few hits through.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Svalack

[Honk]

2 hours ago, mrteige said:

9 flayers instead of 2x6 flayers

I always have trouble to place 9 models and 3 just don’t live up to the points.

1 hour ago, Svalack said:

Horrors and regular ghouls just never seem to do anything for me

Same here. I have seen 10 ghouls doing an heroic defensive fight, but never dishing out significant damage...

horrors did great back in the old book, in a 750pts fight against nurgle with plaquebearers. But I want to try them again... with a zombiedragon Prince 

[mrteige]

The reason why im not so worried about 9 flayers in this list is the massive amount of movement they have. Otherwise i would tend to agree with you

[Evil Bob]

On 2/8/2021 at 3:27 AM, Liquidsteel said:

In my last few games vs KO and Lumineth, the Terrorgheist has simply been a big pin cushion. 

*gasp*

In this dark age of shooting is it Blisterskin’s chance to shine?  Seriously... because I don’t know.  Giving up Feast Day is so hard.  A penalty to hit does matter, in LoN pulling a -1 to wound saved my VLoZD more than once.

Maybe when the club gets back together I’ll go full “praise the sun,” and see how it shakes out with the KO.

[Liquidsteel]

I've been playing Blisterskin Royal Mordants actually. It definitely has the tools to beat KO with the speed. The Flayers have been the workhorse unit.

[Evil Bob]

23 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I've been playing Blisterskin Royal Mordants actually. It definitely has the tools to beat KO with the speed. The Flayers have been the workhorse unit.

How well does it handle going second against KO?  Or do you operate on the Durin being cocky and angling for a double-turn?

You’ve really got my attention with Flayers (a personal favorite).  Being able to cover 28” plus a charge is pretty sexy.  Throw in a reposition with Lord of The Burning Skies on the Varghulf and go for a Feeding Frenzy double tap.  How large do you run the unit?

[Liquidsteel]

You also run the deranged transformation spell to give them another 4" on each move, so 36" total before charging.

I run them as a block of 9, using the varghulf plus often a summoned one to keep reviving them. They're the targets of the 5+ FNP and D3 attacks.

Thanks to the -1 to hit artefact and look out sir, you can keep your foot heroes on -2 to hit turn one and also protect the flayers, using horrors and ghouls to screen out the shorter range shooting (depending on deployment and the mission).

I'll concede that I'm still quite fresh to wargaming and lost both my recent games to KO, but I have the fortune to play and learn against some of the top UK players, and in post match discussions both games could have been victories had I played tighter.

[Honk]

11 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

but I have the fortune to play and learn against some of the top UK players

That sounds like a special kind of fun 🤣

How do you deal with teclis/kroak or others cancelling your buffs? Suck it up and hit the mage first?

and the -1 is a realm artifact?

[Liquidsteel]

I haven't played against Seraphon actually, nobody runs it in our group.

Plus being in the UK means game time has been hard to come by since October. 

-1 to hit vs shooting is the eye of hysh, the blisterskin specific artefact. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Liquidsteel
Missed info

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

-1 to hit vs shooting is the eye of hysh, the blisterskin specific artefact. 

Chew on this constipated daffodil munchers, a gift, right from your homeplane... cursed lumineth sentinels

[Evil Bob]

22 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I'll concede that I'm still quite fresh to wargaming and lost both my recent games to KO, but I have the fortune to play and learn against some of the top UK players, and in post match discussions both games could have been victories had I played tighter.

KO are top of the game right now so losing to them isn’t unexpected.  Glad to hear about post-match debrief.  I try to do that with other players if they’ll have it.  It’s good for experienced people as well.

I have enough Flayers for a full unit but hadn’t bothered trying it out.  My goal is to run a Deadwatch Battalion with three units of six Flayers.  Although my  painting priorities have been elsewhere.

If a maxed unit buffed can preform then I’ll have to give it a serious rethink.

[Liquidsteel]

7 hours ago, Honk said:

Chew on this constipated daffodil munchers, a gift, right from your homeplane... cursed lumineth sentinels

Unfortunately Sentinels don't really care about minuses to hit, they're just fishing for 5+.

Paired with lambent light and spell portal they can get rerolls on anything in range, which unfortunately means dead foot and mounted heroes alike.

I've tried alpha striking LRL with both blisterskin mordants and triple dragon royal family gristlegore and both didn't quite go to plan. I've also tried hiding in a corner to bank CP then launching flayers forward with repositioning. I think its a bit mission dependent but could be a good strategy. 

LRL just have too many tools against an army like ours, not unwinnable but definitely tough. Stacking -1 to hit on top of potentially +2 save or ethereal makes them a tough nut to crack for armies that rely on swift strikes. 

[Feii]

How cool would it be for Ushoran to return and believing he is a god so FEC would get their own God at least rule wise? (I have read his name is also Sumeros so some eastern inspired tyrant god belief would be interesting)

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, Feii said:

How cool would it be for Ushoran to return and believing he is a god so FEC would get their own God at least rule wise? (I have read his name is also Sumeros so some eastern inspired tyrant god belief would be interesting)

The seeds were planted for an Ushoran model in the Carrion Empire lore I believe, or I least I fully expect him to get a model eventually 

[Joseph Mackay]

Random and possibly controversial question

taking everything into consideration (battalions, points, allegiance abilities, warscrolls etc) which battletome do we think was actually the better one for Flesh-Eater Courts? (Including the GHB allegiance abilities in regards to the previous one)

my personal opinion is that 2019 added a lot of useful stuff (Mount traits, spells etc), but I kind of think the 2016 (+GHB) rules were better.
-the summoning, although it wasn’t great when you had to pay points for it in aos1, in early aos2 I enjoyed it a lot more. Highlight for me was The Royal Family battalion and being able to summon Ghoul Kings who could then summon their unit.
-Ghoul Patrol battalion is a sore spot for me. The 2016 version was the usual turn 1 board edge deepstrike, but it also had the ability to heal the units which was at one point able to take units above starting strength (maybe that bit did need toning down...). Now it’s just the deepstrike. My issue with the battalion and why I can’t justify taking it in lists now? It costs the same points (the units within it might be cheaper, depending upon your configuration). I don’t think it’s worth 180pts.

 

on another note, discussion of the Archregent, what do people think of him? Personally I thought he was fine at 200pts, and in my opinion the only reason gw put him up to 240pts was because people were spamming 6 of them and people complained about him being ‘op’ or undercosted. I’m aware he can summon a 200pts unit, but compared to the Ghoul King, I don’t think his warscoll is THAT much better to justify such a difference. I think 160pts for the Ghoul King and 200pts for the Archregent was the right amount. If he had to be nerfed then I’d rather they changed him summon ability to 10 Ghouls instead of 20.

On a somewhat related note, I really feel like gw need to start imposing some lore based restrictions on lists other than named characters (eg each Fyreslayer Lodge only has a single Runefather, so if you take multiples you should lose access to  the lodge rules, or you just can’t take more than one. Same thing with the Archregent, I’m pretty sure the lore implies there’s only ever one in a particular Court at a time)

[Feii]

Does the carrion empire has a novel out or is it just lore snippets? 


I think some interesting realm artifacts should return in AoS 3.0 on average they were more useful to underdog armies. 

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I think 160pts for the Ghoul King and 200pts for the Archregent was the right amount.

With the charnel throne, the regent summons for free and after getting a great support hero (-160 varghulf) or board control (-200 ghouls) you’ll have a 40/80 points 7hp wizard, who can cast 2 spells, one of them a crazy good booster the other of your choice...

If he‘s only 200pts, he‘ll be for free 🤔

[Honk]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:38 PM, mrteige said:

Pleace do let ud know how your list works out

6 flayers with +3 attacks stood before his army and denied me a 6“ charge, with reroll... something workers union 👻

The saltiness knows no boundaries, but the list felt good. 

[Joseph Mackay]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

With the charnel throne, the regent summons for free and after getting a great support hero (-160 varghulf) or board control (-200 ghouls) you’ll have a 40/80 points 7hp wizard, who can cast 2 spells, one of them a crazy good booster the other of your choice...

If he‘s only 200pts, he‘ll be for free 🤔

I don’t agree with the argument that at 200pts he was ‘free’ because of the unit he could summon but that’s just me. The cost of summoning seems to be built into the units that can be summoned rather than the unit that does the summoning, in some cases it’s reflected in both (referring to all summoning, not specifically fec here)

[Evil Bob]

12 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

on another note, discussion of the Archregent, what do people think of him? Personally I thought he was fine at 200pts, and in my opinion the only reason gw put him up to 240pts was because people were spamming 6 of them and people complained about him being ‘op’ or undercosted. I’m aware he can summon a 200pts unit, but compared to the Ghoul King, I don’t think his warscoll is THAT much better to justify such a difference. I think 160pts for the Ghoul King and 200pts for the Archregent was the right amount. If he had to be nerfed then I’d rather they changed him summon ability to 10 Ghouls instead of 20.

The GW Dev’s are an odd bunch.  They’ll fine tune the points on units with great care (KO ships and balloon characters) while madly nerfing another (Nagash & Flamers) and ignoring obvious issues on others (Lumineth archers or Eel Force).  While playing LoN for the longest time the spell casters had what felt like a Death Tax on their points when compared to other casters.  It wasn’t until recently GW suddenly shot up the point cost on other casters that things didn’t feel as grossly out-of-whack.  Maybe GW has it’s own delusions much like the FEC which makes understanding them from the outside impossible.

I don’t begrudge the points increase.  What does ****** me off is other heroes or characters that are obviously under pointed and left that way by GW.  Kroak and Archean for example.  Although they might not be under costed and my perspective is skewered by having over costed equivalent units.

 

12 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

On a somewhat related note, I really feel like gw need to start imposing some lore based restrictions on lists other than named characters (eg each Fyreslayer Lodge only has a single Runefather, so if you take multiples you should lose access to  the lodge rules, or you just can’t take more than one. Same thing with the Archregent, I’m pretty sure the lore implies there’s only ever one in a particular Court at a time)

There would have been a lot less Slaneesh griping if people only brought one Keeper instead of spamming them.  Totally agreement about the Archeregent.

[mrteige]

11 hours ago, Honk said:

6 flayers with +3 attacks stood before his army and denied me a 6“ charge, with reroll... something workers union 👻

The saltiness knows no boundaries, but the list felt good. 

isnt that always the thing with FEC.? You either feel really good or really salty. 😆

[Honk]

1 hour ago, mrteige said:

isnt that always the thing with FEC.?

Ride forth and crush those infidels.

CHARGE AND DESTROY!!!

i said charge!!! KILL MAIM BURN!!!

...

i hate you, I will never field you again, filthy betrayers, when soulblight arrives, I’ll sell you off for a dollar a piece.

I‘ll put you in the oven and watch you melt, backstabbing craven mockery of my grand court, disgrace!

 

(maybe I forgot to yell FOR THE LADY... oh no, It is all my fault... I‘m abgetrunkene unworthy king)