Let's talk about Endless Spells

[broche]

As we talk Endless spell and portal, i'm bumping my question: What was the ruling at the tournament for the Endless spell/Portal infinite loop RAW?

[Overread]

3 minutes ago, broche said:

As we talk Endless spell and portal, i'm bumping my question: What was the ruling at the tournament for the Endless spell/Portal infinite loop RAW?

Can you go into more detail on what this is? Only I glanced through the thread and didn't see an earlier post by yourself on this matter so I'm sure sure what spell interaction you are referring too.

 

 

Note its my impression that infinite feedback loops aren't part of GW's game design so chances are if there IS A feedback loop it will be closed and most tournaments would prevent/bar its use until GW clarifies/errratas the feedback loop closed. 

[Skabnoze]

5 hours ago, Overread said:

Also what are people using to keep their Warscrolls in order for endless spells? Are there any "deck protector" style sleeves to protect them or a case to hold them? (I'm aware that in the UK at least, the GW Store Birthday events are having a case  to put warscroll cards into)

When Malifaux used to use large folded unit cards that were about that size I used to laminate them.  It protected them and also had a nice benefit that you could write on them with a dry-erase marker.  I'll probably consider doing that again.  You can buy a laminating machine for dirt cheap.

[ppetford]

@Overread what do you mean by feedback loop?

[Richelieu]

@Overread @ppetford

[broche]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Can you go into more detail on what this is? Only I glanced through the thread and didn't see an earlier post by yourself on this matter so I'm sure sure what spell interaction you are referring too.

 

 

Note its my impression that infinite feedback loops aren't part of GW's game design so chances are if there IS A feedback loop it will be closed and most tournaments would prevent/bar its use until GW clarifies/errratas the feedback loop closed. 

Sorry my bad I posted in another thread the one from 6 Nations. but basicly, RAW any endless spell with portal trigger an ininite loop. (set up - move - teleport - set up - move - teleport, ect.)

[ppetford]

Ah because you can keep moving it back through the portal. I see...

?

[grungolah]

I think this would fall under a generic version of the  "effects don't trigger themselves" ruling they put on additional attacks.

[broche]

so that would mean basicaly the sequence would be:

Set up - Move - Teleport - END (the second setup does not trigger the move)

[Overread]

Ahh I see it now and yeah this smacks of something that has resulted from rather casual writing of the rules and  terminology. Clearly something needs to be done. Could be easily fixed by changing the wording to "placed" instead of "setup" from the portals. If the Endless Spell is placed it, therefore, won't count as being setup and thus won't get the extra move, whilst leaving it easily able to move before and after being teleported (up to its maximum number of movement inches). 

That would be the quickest and simplest method to fix the issue without complicating the matter and it means only changing the rules on one model (plus the way GW games work its a fairly intuitive approach).

[Richelieu]

So had anybody else noticed that Soulsnare Shackles triggers every move phase, so a unit in its aura will have two chances to take d3 mortals each battle round.  For 20 points I can see them being a solid pick, especially for something like a legion of Sacrament or Tzeentch list where spells aren't a scarce resource.  

[Redmanphill]

Just a quick question:
Can the Pendulum travel in both directions along its line of travel?
The rules as printed are very unclear on this. It states, and I'm paraphrasing, this model moves along its line of travel. It doesn't say in one direction.
Okay just found the debate on this, thanks.

[AaronWilson]

@Redmanphill If you go back and read the last 2-3 pages of discussion you will see that is currently a hotly debated thing. It needs a FAQ via GW, so for now the best thing to do is agree with your opponent one way or the other and wait for a official word from GW. 

[Overread]

8 hours ago, Richelieu said:

So had anybody else noticed that Soulsnare Shackles triggers every move phase, so a unit in its aura will have two chances to take d3 mortals each battle round.  For 20 points I can see them being a solid pick, especially for something like a legion of Sacrament or Tzeentch list where spells aren't a scarce resource.  

Soulsnare Shackles is a great choice to really mess up an opponents plans. Especially if you can snare up something that has an aura effect on other units. Suddenly you can break their combo or hinder its effectiveness and suddenly your opponent has to commit to an attack with other units without the aura support. 

Or you can rush a wizard forward or use the portals to snare a key enemy wizard or unit from getting into a favourable position.

[Aginor]

My initial reaction to the shackles was "meh" but the more I think about it the more do I think that they have their uses. And they are dirt cheap.

[Overread]

They will work better on some armies over others. Against a horde army they might not work all that well because the opponent will just have more units to throw at you; whilst against an elite army with fewer models they are far more powerful. The terrain density also comes into play; setting them up at a choke point means you can slow down or even block off that path as the enemy can't then just run straight through it. 

[Aginor]

I wish we could choose endless spells after setup (just reserving a points pool if we plan to use any, and then taking turns to pick spells or take command points instead) because that would offer more tactical ways to react to the battleplan, the terrain, and the enemy army. I like playing the game on the table and that would probably be a chance to give the better player the edge, not the better optimized list.

For example if you face a horde army then the Purple Sun is great, but if you don't fight a horde army you could use the 100 points for Chronomantic Cogs and a Balewind Vortex instead to boost your casters, or just take two CPs.

[Enoby]

I've messed about with Endless Spells a bit, and can't think of why the gemnids are so cheap compared to the others. Look at them compared to the maw - the maw does half the damage, can't reach any enemies first turn, has a worse debuff, and it has a higher casting value. But for some reason, they're both 40 points.

 Is there something I'm missing that would suggest that the gemnids aren't too strong for their points?

[Skabnoze]

11 hours ago, Aginor said:

I wish we could choose endless spells after setup (just reserving a points pool if we plan to use any, and then taking turns to pick spells or take command points instead) because that would offer more tactical ways to react to the battleplan, the terrain, and the enemy army. I like playing the game on the table and that would probably be a chance to give the better player the edge, not the better optimized list.

For example if you face a horde army then the Purple Sun is great, but if you don't fight a horde army you could use the 100 points for Chronomantic Cogs and a Balewind Vortex instead to boost your casters, or just take two CPs.

An endless spell side-board, or just choosing to not bring any and bank some command points, is an interesting idea in an event.  That could provide some interesting dynamics and might be fun.

[AaronWilson]

G

23 hours ago, Enoby said:

I've messed about with Endless Spells a bit, and can't think of why the gemnids are so cheap compared to the others. Look at them compared to the maw - the maw does half the damage, can't reach any enemies first turn, has a worse debuff, and it has a higher casting value. But for some reason, they're both 40 points.

 Is there something I'm missing that would suggest that the gemnids aren't too strong for their points?

Geminids are definately undercosted right now.

[Redmanphill]

What annoys me most about the Endless spells is that they have reintroduced templates to the game. It was better off without them!

[AaronWilson]

In what way have they re-introduces templates sorry? 

[Magicbandit]

On 7/14/2018 at 11:32 PM, Enoby said:

I've messed about with Endless Spells a bit, and can't think of why the gemnids are so cheap compared to the others. Look at them compared to the maw - the maw does half the damage, can't reach any enemies first turn, has a worse debuff, and it has a higher casting value. But for some reason, they're both 40 points.

 Is there something I'm missing that would suggest that the gemnids aren't too strong for their points?

While I agree that the Geminids might be to cheap, they do not have the same footprint other spells have. 

Gnashing Maw and Burning Head for example do hit everything within 1" after it moves, Geminids only hit what they pass over. So I would argue that those other spells have the potential to hit more targets than the Geminids do, but they do more damage to their target.

All depends on how blobbed up those units are.

[grungolah]

5 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

What annoys me most about the Endless spells is that they have reintroduced templates to the game. It was better off without them!

The only thing that feels templatey about them is moving over units, which was a rule already used on Hexwraiths.  

[Richelieu]

On 7/14/2018 at 5:45 AM, Aginor said:

For example if you face a horde army then the Purple Sun is great, but if you don't fight a horde army you could use the 100 points for Chronomantic Cogs and a Balewind Vortex instead to boost your casters, or just take two CPs.

I think many people under estimate how good purple sun is against non horde armies.  Remember it slays models, it doesn't deal mortals (unless the unit has 6+ wounds characteristic).  So if you roll a 6 against a unit of ogors you're effectively doing the same as rolling four sixes against a one wound horde.

And it looks rad.