Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Ruben]

5 hours ago, Sete said:

Dudes i need advice and opinions.

After a disappointing Gathering Storm  ( as a Templar fan, and while Templars don't get new miniatures and codex ) i am moving to AoS a bit more permenantly.

I haven't played for a while, and still need to read the new codex properly, but if i understand i can have units in reserve to "Deep Strike"? 

I'm planning a few 750 games to get some more peeps playing.

 

 

Scions of the storm means forced deployment. The good? You get to plop yourselves immediately on objectives and start scoring points, or immediately threaten enemy squishies or generals from the get go, ruining their fancy deployment formations. The bad? You have 1/3 chance to fail to get each unit in on each round, which may or may not be a good thing. Meaning, it's more random and you can't plan ahead too much.

750 points is an odd number. Try 1000 instead: that's kind of equivalent to W40k's version of 750. At 1k points you don't have much choice for fancy battalions, since every model count (think grey knights), so the choice of keeping units in the celestial realm becomes less important (I generally keep tarpits in the celestial realm and drop them on objectives by taking the first turn, or let my opponent go first, keep killy units in reserve, and drop them behind enemy lines to charge their rear lines).

[Guiltysparc]

That was kind of what I was thinking running angelos and an aquilor at 1000pts.  Set up two of the three hunters in pursuit, deploy the 3rd hunter, palladors, and aquilor on the table.  Then use the aquilor's ability on him and the 3rd hunter unit on the first turn.  At that point you get all 3 hunters coming out of pursuit together to trigger 'the trap is sprung' without having only 4 models on the table at the start of the game.  

[Let's 'ere it for da boyz!]

6 hours ago, Guiltysparc said:

That was kind of what I was thinking running angelos and an aquilor at 1000pts.  Set up two of the three hunters in pursuit, deploy the 3rd hunter, palladors, and aquilor on the table.  Then use the aquilor's ability on him and the 3rd hunter unit on the first turn.  At that point you get all 3 hunters coming out of pursuit together to trigger 'the trap is sprung' without having only 4 models on the table at the start of the game.  

Interesting. Hadn't thought about that type of deployment before.

[CountryMou3e]

19 hours ago, Guiltysparc said:

That was kind of what I was thinking running angelos and an aquilor at 1000pts.  Set up two of the three hunters in pursuit, deploy the 3rd hunter, palladors, and aquilor on the table.  Then use the aquilor's ability on him and the 3rd hunter unit on the first turn.  At that point you get all 3 hunters coming out of pursuit together to trigger 'the trap is sprung' without having only 4 models on the table at the start of the game.  

Do you run sabres or hand axes on the hunters ? 

[Guiltysparc]

16 hours ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

Interesting. Hadn't thought about that type of deployment before.

I was concerned about putting all the hunters in pursuit at deployment and then having only 4 models on the table to get shot up by my wife's skyfires and such...this seemed like a way around though, but we'll see how it works.

2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

Do you run sabres or hand axes on the hunters ? 

I have not run this yet, but i'm leaning towards sabres because i like the look better.  They are statistically equivalent though, so it doesn't matter unless you have buffs that add to wound rolls, in which case the axes get the nod.  I am just jumping into AoS after several years in 40k/30k, so i'm still in the planning phase.  =)

[Ratrek]

On 2017-04-05 at 9:13 AM, Ruben said:

Depends. Hammerstrike force allows you to hold back 2 units of paladins in reserve, bypassing the forced deployment of scions.

I'm just getting my feet wet in AoS so I apologize if this is a silly question, but does the rule regarding where the Paladins can drop in Hammerstrike over rule the standard must be 9" from the enemy clause?

[Olincay]

1 hour ago, Ratrek said:

I'm just getting my feet wet in AoS so I apologize if this is a silly question, but does the rule regarding where the Paladins can drop in Hammerstrike over rule the standard must be 9" from the enemy clause?

Yea it does, they can be deployed with in 6" of the Prosecutors but 3" away from the enemy.
So as long as one model from the unit is within the 6 you can conga line the rest of them out.

[Ruben]

1 hour ago, Ratrek said:

I'm just getting my feet wet in AoS so I apologize if this is a silly question, but does the rule regarding where the Paladins can drop in Hammerstrike over rule the standard must be 9" from the enemy clause?

The fun part about hammerstrike is that it only states you need to drop within 6" of a prosecutor. This means you can ignore the 9" from enemy clause.

[kozokus]

48 minutes ago, Olincay said:

but 3" away from the enemy

Where did you see that?

[DrEmrys]

Where did you see that?

That comes from the rules (moving section) . In your movement phase you can't move within 3"of enemy models

[kozokus]

4 hours ago, DrEmrys said:

That comes from the rules (moving section) . In your movement phase you can't move within 3"of enemy models

Oh  i see. Am afraid i disagree.

CF FAQ

Q: What is ‘set-up’, exactly?
A: ‘Set-up’ is typically when a unit is placed on the table
during deployment, but can also refer to a unit being
deployed in a location other than on the battlefield,
or being put into play once the game has started (a
unit using the Stormcast Eternal Warrior Chamber’s
Lightning Strike, the Chameleon Skinks’ Chameleon
Ambush, or the Treelord’s Spirit Paths ability, for
example). Models can set up within 3" of the enemy,
even if they are set up in the movement phase, unless
noted otherwise in the rules for the ability that allows
them to be set up once the battle is under way.

 

So you can deploy from hammerstrike within 3" and put hour hammer directly into the mouth of your opponent.

[PJetski]

There is no "standard" deployment range. It all depends on the ability being used to set up.

Hammerstrike can deploy directly into melee. You are not moving, you are setting up a unit.

My favourite way to use Hammerstrike is deploying 15 Retributors and 5 Protector behind them. Activating 15 Retributors at once is a crippling blow to your opponent!

[Nico]

While I personally agree with the above on the basis that all rules should be either moves not set ups (rather than both, which then brings in a 3" rule), be aware that many players took the view that rules such as this are both a setup and a move (because of the badly drafted wording "this is their move for that movement phase", which should plainly be written as "the unit cannot move again in that movement phase" - to bring it in line with the summoning rules - e.g. Summon Pink Horrors). They did this largely to weaken Warrior Brotherhood (the issue only really arose in that context), which has since been nerfed anyway.

Unfortunately, we're still in a position where we have on the one hand an emphatic FAQ on set up rules which could not emphasise strongly enough that set up moves can be within 3"; and on the other hand wording which is used to tack on the properties of a move onto a set up rule in order to create a complicated mess.

One would hope that now that the need to nerf the Warrior Brotherhood has gone away, we would all be able to agree the simpler approach is better - any given rule can only be a setup rule or a move rule (based on the operative wording of the rule, which should be very obvious) - only one of the FAQs applies - never both.

Having to explain the complicated 8 or so steps as to why a unit cannot in fact deploy within 3" at a tournament and potentially provoking an argument is painful.

[PJetski]

Hopefully the new "FAQ forum"they talked about on facebook will be used to finally put this debate to rest.

[Bowlzee]

Should just be a blanket rule, you can only be within 3" if you have charged, or been charged, in previous turns etc.

I personally hate the stringing out of models to abuse the setup in X" because thematically it doesnt usually make sense that some how some dudes are massively quicker than others in a unit etc. But rules wise I see why people do it

[PJetski]

It's not an "abuse" if that's how the designers intend for the game to work...

[Bowlzee]

It's not an "abuse" if that's how the designers intend for the game to work...

Agreed. But we don't know either way.

Like I said before, seeing a unit of 20+ models stringing along 20"+ away from the point they setup doesn't look thematic in my view. But I won't stop anyone from doing it, because they aren't wrong. I just don't think it looks great

[Ruben]

44 minutes ago, Bowlzee said:

Agreed. But we don't know either way.

Like I said before, seeing a unit of 20+ models stringing along 20"+ away from the point they setup doesn't look thematic in my view. But I won't stop anyone from doing it, because they aren't wrong. I just don't think it looks great

Every army has some ways to cheese to be honest. Not all rules are clear cut, a lot of them are meant to be interpreted between players. And I think this is fine. When I play vs. a hammerstrike I'd expect them to be dropping paladins into my face and wiping out entire units off the table. A good general's gotta plan for that

[Thomas Lyons]

On April 4, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Riddlesworthy said:

So I've just taken the plunge with Stormcasts, moving over from 40k. I have the start collecting box and the additional retributors from the starter set.

From reading this thread, I see very little talk about prosecutors. I looked at the rules for prosecutors with javelins and got really excited. point for point as good as judicators (which i'm not overly a fan of), part of some of the alpha strike formations (hammerstrike, vanguard wing) but I don't see many of them in lists. Am I missing something that everyone else already *gets*?

I was thinking of a 1000 point list:

Lord Celestant on foot

Lord Relictor OR Knight Heraldor OR Lord Castellant

5x Liberators - hammers and shields, greathammer

5x Liberators - hammers and shields, greathammer

5x Liberators - warblades and shields, greatblade

3x prosecutors with javelins - trident

3x prosecutors with javelins - trident

3x prosecutors with javelins - trident

5x retributors

 

Am I way off base with my love of the flying spartans?

Just a note, you're really close to the Vanguard Wing battalion with this list.  In my estimation, the Vanguard Wing battalion is one of the most powerful battalions out there if used appropriately.  I would explore combining those units of liberators and taking a look.

[Turragor]

7 hours ago, Nico said:

Having to explain the complicated 8 or so steps as to why a unit cannot in fact deploy within 3" at a tournament and potentially provoking an argument is painful.

Agreed! I tend to just adapt to whatever an opponent thinks unless totally absurd.

I am taking a hammerstrike to my upcoming tournament and will ask opponents for their interpretation before each game starts so we're on the same page. Will be interesting against other SCE players with hammerstrike formations.

[Dotification]

So would a unit of crossbow judicators set up with Scions of the Storm each get an extra attack??

Or should I spend those points on a unit of Liberators, a gryph-hound for my Lord Veritant & hopefully get/deny the random set of re-rolls from being 20 points under budget??

[Ruben]

1 hour ago, Dotification said:

So would a unit of crossbow judicators set up with Scions of the Storm each get an extra attack??

Or should I spend those points on a unit of Liberators, a gryph-hound for my Lord Veritant & hopefully get/deny the random set of re-rolls from being 20 points under budget??

Scions of the storm counts as movement. So I guess no.

[Dotification]

2 hours ago, Ruben said:

Scions of the storm counts as movement. So I guess no.

For real??! So are the crossbows on Judi's ever worth taking??  

If not, GW should just make them a separate war-scroll & reduce their points cost, so that's a missed opportunity with the latest B.T.

(And here I was going to attempt kit-bashing extra x-bow arms on starter set Liberators...)

[Ruben]

3 hours ago, Dotification said:

For real??! So are the crossbows on Judi's ever worth taking??  

If not, GW should just make them a separate war-scroll & reduce their points cost, so that's a missed opportunity with the latest B.T.

(And here I was going to attempt kit-bashing extra x-bow arms on starter set Liberators...)

It depends, really. If you have liberators kitted to tarpit (warhammer + shield + lord castellant + staunch defender), and are facing down horde armies, then yes the extra attacks are "cool". But you know what's better in terms of volume of shots? Vanguard-raptors. Raptors do 27 shots when not moving, vs. crossjuds that do 12 shots (prime most likely will be on the bow, since it's too good not to take). Former hits on 4+/4+ (prime does 3+), while latter does 3+/4+. Both no rend and 1 damage. Not to mention they're both the same cost too.

[Ratrek]

On 2017-04-06 at 10:58 PM, Olincay said:

Yea it does, they can be deployed with in 6" of the Prosecutors but 3" away from the enemy.
So as long as one model from the unit is within the 6 you can conga line the rest of them out.

 

On 2017-04-06 at 10:59 PM, Ruben said:

The fun part about hammerstrike is that it only states you need to drop within 6" of a prosecutor. This means you can ignore the 9" from enemy clause.

 

Cheers!

Engage Plotting.....