Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Richelieu]

13 minutes ago, Burf said:

You're missing 'hoard CP to stack multiple command abilities on top of each other', which is always going to be the most mathematically powerful way to use the new system but suffers from giving your opponent 2 turn to play around it and requiring specific units in specific combinations.

That said, a properly executed 2-3 double turn with this strategy (assuming your opponent doesn't counter you) will be game endingly powerful. Just think about buffing anything with Vandus+Celestant+Celestant.

Yeah I think this will be a good thing.  There will be a continuously variable assessment of the optimal CP usage.  It's the kind of thing I enjoy.  It's the type of mechanic that will reward both good play and good luck.  

On a different note, I love that GW is cranking out the models, but why couldn't they have waited another two months for the new Stormcast stuff, I still need like $300 work of DoK to complete the collection and I was not expecting to have to buy more SC this soon.  ?

[DanielFM]

4 hours ago, Burf said:

You're missing 'hoard CP to stack multiple command abilities on top of each other', which is always going to be the most mathematically powerful way to use the new system but suffers from giving your opponent 2 turn to play around it and requiring specific units in specific combinations.

That said, a properly executed 2-3 double turn with this strategy (assuming your opponent doesn't counter you) will be game endingly powerful. Just think about buffing anything with Vandus+Celestant+Celestant.

Is this that impressive? You could do something similar (minus 1 of them) with Consummate Commander, every turn.

Your tactic is pretty much the same what I suggested about saving points early in the game. Such short-ranged, offensive CAs are ideal for it, but there are not a lot of them in SCE to choose from. It will become old quick. At least the other options are useful with more CAs (thus with more character choices).

On another note, Gavriel Sureheart just got a bit less ****** now you can use him in addition to your general. I don't know if he is better than a Vexillor (who can teleport himself where his reroll charges is needed) but now he is more of an alternative.

[mystycalchemy]

7 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Just one example of why it would be absurd to fundamentally change how shooting works, as opposed to just the way one chooses targets. I really hope it remains in the proper shooting phase, with as few restrictions as possible. I've seen a lot of speculation being thrown around about how badly it will be neutered, but if it is I don't believe the game will be properly balanced around it on the first go - and I'm not crazy about waiting months/years for it to get there again (after being in a pretty good place right now). 

I imagine all that's happening is that you can no longer shoot *out* of combat. Meaning your judicators locked in a fight with some chaos warriors can't decide to shoot the chaos sorcerer standing 20" from the combat, but they can still probably shoot the Chaos Warriors fine

[Burf]

13 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Is this that impressive? You could do something similar (minus 1 of them) with Consummate Commander, every turn.

Your tactic is pretty much the same what I suggested about saving points early in the game. Such short-ranged, offensive CAs are ideal for it, but there are not a lot of them in SCE to choose from. It will become old quick. At least the other options are useful with more CAs (thus with more character choices).

On another note, Gavriel Sureheart just got a bit less ****** now you can use him in addition to your general. I don't know if he is better than a Vexillor (who can teleport himself where his reroll charges is needed) but now he is more of an alternative.

I think we're having slightly different conversations . A) Yeah you could do that with CC before(almost) but you had to forgo staunch defender to do it and it wasn't anywhere near as good. The difference between +2 to hit and +1A +2 to hit is actually pretty huge. B) This was an example using stormcast units that have obvious synergistic uses, but is not the only possible way to stack buffs. For example using The lord aquilors abilitiy + reroll charges to almost guarantee a successful outflank. Other armies have command abilities that buff things that would be even more powerful when combined, which will be important to jeep in mind. C) The most efficient use of buffs that can compound on each other is to use them in tandem. That's just math. A unit of 10 vanguard hunters (for easy math) has 20 attacks and does 3.333 wounds in melee to a 4+ save. At just +1 to hit that's 4.44. At just +1 attack that's 5 wounds. Those two buffs seperately add 2.77 total damage to the unit. But if you combine them the unit does 6.667 wounds or 3.33 more.

[DanielFM]

37 minutes ago, Burf said:

I think we're having slightly different conversations . A) Yeah you could do that with CC before(almost) but you had to forgo staunch defender to do it and it wasn't anywhere near as good. The difference between +2 to hit and +1A +2 to hit is actually pretty huge. B) This was an example using stormcast units that have obvious synergistic uses, but is not the only possible way to stack buffs. For example using The lord aquilors abilitiy + reroll charges to almost guarantee a successful outflank. Other armies have command abilities that buff things that would be even more powerful when combined, which will be important to jeep in mind. C) The most efficient use of buffs that can compound on each other is to use them in tandem. That's just math. A unit of 10 vanguard hunters (for easy math) has 20 attacks and does 3.333 wounds in melee to a 4+ save. At just +1 to hit that's 4.44. At just +1 attack that's 5 wounds. Those two buffs seperately add 2.77 total damage to the unit. But if you combine them the unit does 6.667 wounds or 3.33 more.

I see your point. Unfortunately, the +1 attack CA comes with an expensive, relatively poor character. Outside +1 attack, our other CAs don't stack like that.

Aquilor+rerolling charge sounds great, I thought about it the moment they announced the mechanism. But who's gonna use the second CA? Rumors stated a single character can't use two abilities regardless of available points, so you would need an additional character in the backfield. Lightning Chariot will always be an option, but at this point you can send a Vexillor which will do the same, in a bubble and without spending CPs. Scions, if not changed, will remain a gamble. I see the reroll charge CA as more of an opportunity resource for when a character is in the right place at the right time. In other cases we have better alternatives.

I'm not dishing the CA mechanism, it's only that (right now) it only appears to offer a limited amount of options to SCE. Other armies will benefit more, and we should be on the watch to not be outplayed by that advantage.

[Nubgan]

20 hours ago, papary said:

Wanting to jump back in to sigmar. I’m gonna play stormcast because they seem to have a bunch of different ways to play so I can figure out what i enjoy most, however im

on the fence as to if it’s pointless buying anything with a new starter on the horizon.  Would thunder and blood + a lord Aquilor be a safe bet?

To be fair, at the absurdly low price point the current starter set is, its not a bad thing to get before its replaced. The models in it are still really useful in a lot of lists and a decent way to get a bigger model count at a lower price point. Like you say though that Thunder and Blood box set is pretty decent if you don't want the Lord Celestant on Dracoth and the book (which is a pretty decent 96 page supplement with a bunch of stuff in).

Your other options are obviously the start collecting boxes which are only marginally cheaper than the starter box and have half the amount of stormcast models in. The other option is getting the blightwar box, but honestly as an introduction to stormcast and the game they are a bit weaksauce by themselves.

[DanielFM]

Nice (and relatively obvious combo). Heraldor Onward to glory +run 6" command ability. That should get some Fulminators 16" from your deployment zone before any charge dice rolled. 8" is easier than the dreaded 9" charge you get from Scions-LC-Pennant, and the combo doesn't rely on any 3+. On the other hand, that's for a straight forward charge, a lot less flexible than the other deployment options. But you gotta trade something.

I can see myself using it for a powerful guaranteed alpha-strike.

[kenshin620]

You know with the more inclusion of female SCE, has anyone seen any kitbashes between SCE and shieldwolf shieldmaidens/rangers? Those ladies are pretty tall so their heads may not look too off scale if you want some more unhelmeted  heads. Though I suppose the heads may not be as chunky as SCE (anyone got any comparisons with the current female sce?)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[DanielFM]

Look out Sir: -1 to hit heroes 3" or closer from 3+ model units.

RIP Longstrikes. You will never again do mortal wounds to your intended target. Great job at cross-checking GW.

[Turragor]

45 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Look out Sir: -1 to hit heroes 3" or closer from 3+ model units.

RIP Longstrikes. You will never again do mortal wounds to your intended target. Great job at cross-checking GW.

I said this in the other place you posted but I think it's still okay. You've 3+ /3+ /-2 /2 damage which is pretty hefty against most heroes still.

Maybe they're working against mortal wounds in a big way! I'd love it for long term game health. Plus y'know, it's one of SCs only weaknesses.

[DanielFM]

6 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I said this in the other place you posted but I think it's still okay. You've 3+ /3+ /-2 /2 damage which is pretty hefty against most heroes still.

Maybe they're working against mortal wounds in a big way! I'd love it for long term game health. Plus y'know, it's one of SCs only weaknesses.

Can they still work? Maybe, but at 180 points...

Is it ridiculous that their main special rule doesn't work when shooting at their main target? Of course it is IMHO

[Turragor]

27 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Can they still work? Maybe, but at 180 points...

Is it ridiculous that their main special rule doesn't work when shooting at their main target? Of course it is IMHO

But it already didn't work against anything with -1 to hit. It isn't sacred is it?

[DanielFM]

13 minutes ago, Turragor said:

But it already didn't work against anything with -1 to hit. It isn't sacred is it?

-1 to hit is quite rare. Now it protects every character. If they aren't for shooting at characters, what are Longstrikes for?

It's likely the new ballista will make them quite obsolete, anyway.

[kozokus]

-1 to hit my LCoD is something i take. Rejoice!

[Richelieu]

The thing about Long strikes is that they do a low amount of damage, but they do it extremely consistently.  The only thing this is effective against is Heroes.  If they can no longer even effectively target Heroes, then I'm afraid I agree that they don't have a purpose or a place in a list, especially at 180.  At 140 we can talk. 

[Burf]

18 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

The thing about Long strikes is that they do a low amount of damage, but they do it extremely consistently.  The only thing this is effective against is Heroes.  If they can no longer even effectively target Heroes, then I'm afraid I agree that they don't have a purpose or a place in a list, especially at 180.  At 140 we can talk. 

Don't say that over in the 'AoS2' discussion thread, they'll lose their minds.

If you point out that 180pts of longstrikes only does 2.22 damage per turn to a 4+ save after the change, while being more fragile than a unit of 10 skinks their heads will explode.

[Burf]

4 hours ago, Turragor said:

I said this in the other place you posted but I think it's still okay. You've 3+ /3+ /-2 /2 damage which is pretty hefty against most heroes still.

Maybe they're working against mortal wounds in a big way! I'd love it for long term game health. Plus y'know, it's one of SCs only weaknesses.

They still only get one shot each. That statline doesn't mean much when you consider that it still only does 2 damage per turn to a 4+ save.

Before it was reasonable to kill a 6 wound character in 2 turns, now it takes 3. That's a huge nerf to the thing they were best at before.

[ledha]

5 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Can they still work? Maybe, but at 180 points...

Is it ridiculous that their main special rule doesn't work when shooting at their main target? Of course it is IMHO

The stormcast book will be released along the new edition, i positively think they thought about that and gave them a special rule that ignore this.

[DanielFM]

4 hours ago, ledha said:

The stormcast book will be released along the new edition, i positively think they thought about that and gave them a special rule that ignore this.

I hope you are right. They could even do it for more units (in other factions) along the way so people dont cry about us being special snowflakes.

[Turragor]

On 5/21/2018 at 2:15 AM, Burf said:

Don't say that over in the 'AoS2' discussion thread, they'll lose their minds.

This is the only thing I'm really discussing at the moment. The big picture is clouded. When the clouds clear, ppl can debate. imo.

 

[Karol]

Is this a valid starting army? I know it doesn't have fulminators, stardrakes or skinks etc But a friend wants an army for his son, and we don't really have a stormcast specialist here.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Luckstone
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Chains of Celestial Lightning

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

[trarux]

58 minutes ago, Karol said:

Is this a valid starting army? I know it doesn't have fulminators, stardrakes or skinks etc But a friend wants an army for his son, and we don't really have a stormcast specialist here.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Luckstone
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Chains of Celestial Lightning

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

Hi

 

1. I would not buy a stormcast army before AoS is here (June) 

2. Dont think its worth going that many liberators without Vanguard Wing battalion.

3. rest looks like a good start if you want to continue to build in any direction of Stormcast l8er on 

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Karol said:

Is this a valid starting army? I know it doesn't have fulminators, stardrakes or skinks etc But a friend wants an army for his son, and we don't really have a stormcast specialist here.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Luckstone
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Chains of Celestial Lightning

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

You can't have four artefacts without extra battalions. Only one.

[Namelessone81]

Hallo all, new player here  

I started aos and I have made a se vanguard oriented army and I was wondering if it is a viable army and some tips for making it better 

 

Vanguard%20%32%30%30%30.pdf

[mystycalchemy]

7 hours ago, Karol said:

Is this a valid starting army? I know it doesn't have fulminators, stardrakes or skinks etc But a friend wants an army for his son, and we don't really have a stormcast specialist here.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Luckstone
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Chains of Celestial Lightning

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammers

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

As others have mentioned, you probably wouldnt want that many liberators unless you were running Vanguard wing. And the relic you put on the Lord-Celestant on foot (Chains of Celestial Lightning) is only accessible if you take the Knights Excelsior warscroll battalion.