Competitive Death - Where do we sit?

[deynon]

Sincerly I think Death decreased in Power. Everything we can do with this battalion we were able to do better before it. I mean everything.

Toh, if you want you can arguee Magic, but sincerly...it's not such an update.

Summoning is worse in every aspect: they don't increase the Death Options, .

Warscroll battalions are simply a mocking (deathmarch too after the FAQs).

Le new allegiances could be done as simply new allegiances nothing more. Cause even the Legion of Night ambush could be done before thanks to the summoning and even more adaptable. The blood knight make a bit more damages but they die without return (litterarly).

So, nothing new, simply different way to play, but worse ptions about.

[stratigo]

6 minutes ago, deynon said:

Sincerly I think Death decreased in Power. Everything we can do with this battalion we were able to do better before it. I mean everything.

Toh, if you want you can arguee Magic, but sincerly...it's not such an update.

Summoning is worse in every aspect: they don't increase the Death Options, .

Warscroll battalions are simply a mocking (deathmarch too after the FAQs).

Le new allegiances could be done as simply new allegiances nothing more. Cause even the Legion of Night ambush could be done before thanks to the summoning and even more adaptable. The blood knight make a bit more damages but they die without return (litterarly).

So, nothing new, simply different way to play, but worse ptions about.

 

You are crazy if you think death got weaker.

 

Summoning got better. It's a deepstrike now... You put your 40 skeletons aside and bring it in from a gravesite. That's really good and flexible. They got fantastic spells. Like... some of the best magic in the game and pretty much unstoppable casting.

[deynon]

8 minutes ago, stratigo said:

 

You are crazy if you think death got weaker.

 

Summoning got better. It's a deepstrike now... You put your 40 skeletons aside and bring it in from a gravesite. That's really good and flexible. They got fantastic spells. Like... some of the best magic in the game and pretty much unstoppable casting.

Before a put a  unit of skeleton  and couldsummon back better. Before I could have summoned a unit of skeletons without problems, not minding being near the gravesites with an Hero e having to be in the space of the gravesite itself.

Flexible? Before I was able to choose what units summon, now I can't at all.

Spells...meh...good, but not so good and they have to be casted...there is still an opponent and the dice in the middle.

Unstoppable? Forgot about Disciple of Tzeench, Stormcasts? Fireslayers?

 

You are  exalted by this new battletome, it's not a bad thing; but I'm not crazy. I can countereach option that you bring about, cause you can't justify them simply.

 

Waht it is possible to do now, ti was also possible before. We don't have new units (and please, don't tell me that the Palanquin and the VOodrai are enough...

[Gotrek]

13 hours ago, Arael_Greywings said:

Did you count in their abilitiy to mitigate wounds? I think this is a underestimated but very powerfull ability.... Place em close to a troop of zombies or skellis  and he will push of even mortal wounds on a 4+. Combined with an artifact against shooters like in legion of sacrament it will be a lot more troublesome to get them of the table.

20 arkanaut company: 6 skyhooks @3/3 damage d3 (counting the +1 bonus for shooting a hero), 34 @3/4 damage 1 (counting the +1 for shooting a hero. Rend eliminates the necros save) EDIT: this is without the aether khemist buff

6×.66×.66=2.61×2 (average damage on a d3) = 5.22.

34×.66×.5=11.22

Total wound score: 16.44, 8 will go onto the trash, 1 will be saved by deathless minions and the necromancer will take 7. 

I'm not taking into account artifacts because those are legion specific and only will affect 1 hero (which should be your beatstick/expensive hero, in my opinion).

 

Also can i mention how ****** it is that sacrament got 2 anti shooting artifacts while blood and grand host got none?

[stratigo]

13 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

20 arkanaut company: 6 skyhooks @3/3 damage d3 (counting the +1 bonus for shooting a hero), 34 @3/4 damage 1 (counting the +1 for shooting a hero. Rend eliminates the necros save) EDIT: this is without the aether khemist buff

6×.66×.66=2.61×2 (average damage on a d3) = 5.22.

34×.66×.5=11.22

Total wound score: 16.44, 8 will go onto the trash, 1 will be saved by deathless minions and the necromancer will take 7. 

I'm not taking into account artifacts because those are legion specific and only will affect 1 hero (which should be your beatstick/expensive hero, in my opinion).

 

Also can i mention how ****** it is that sacrament got 2 anti shooting artifacts while blood and grand host got none?

if your necro is in range of pistol shots, either you're playing wrong, or you've probably already lost. Also the pistols have no rend

[Gotrek]

1 minute ago, stratigo said:

if your necro is in range of pistol shots, either you're playing wrong, or you've probably already lost. Also the pistols have no rend

Whoops. Thought everything in the KO had rend. My bad, necro saves 1 with armor and still takes 6 and dies.

12" range, while not skyhook or skyfire good isn't just something to write off, especially with clown car zilfin running around

[stratigo]

Just now, Gotrek said:

Whoops. Thought everything in the KO had rend. My bad, necro saves 1 with armor and still takes 6 and dies.

12" range, while not skyhook or skyfire good isn't just something to write off, especially with clown car zilfin running around

It isn't good enough to get to a necro. At all. At the VERY best I have just sacrificed 240 points to kill 110 before the massive skeleton blob in front of the necro deletes my arkanauts from existence. The Clown car will not get arkanauts in pistol range of a support hero except in very VERY edge cases and with poor deployment. I cheekily get out, at maximum, 11 to 14 inches from my arkanauts usually (if you don't over burden the boat... which is something that never happens, you'll net 2 more inches). Your necro has to be within 26 inches of my clown car for a few pistols to hit him. And it is impossible to line up all 14 not skyhook arkanauts in a place that lets you get them all in that range. And doing all this opens the question of.... why? I'm spitting out endrinriggers in the front to get THEM up faster far more often then I'm not.

 

Dropping in will never get a necro in pistol range except by pure deployment error.

[Gotrek]

11 minutes ago, stratigo said:

It isn't good enough to get to a necro. At all. At the VERY best I have just sacrificed 240 points to kill 110 before the massive skeleton blob in front of the necro deletes my arkanauts from existence. The Clown car will not get arkanauts in pistol range of a support hero except in very VERY edge cases and with poor deployment. I cheekily get out, at maximum, 11 to 14 inches from my arkanauts usually (if you don't over burden the boat... which is something that never happens, you'll net 2 more inches). Your necro has to be within 26 inches of my clown car for a few pistols to hit him. And it is impossible to line up all 14 not skyhook arkanauts in a place that lets you get them all in that range. And doing all this opens the question of.... why? I'm spitting out endrinriggers in the front to get THEM up faster far more often then I'm not.

 

Dropping in will never get a necro in pistol range except by pure deployment error.

Sigh, would it make you feel better if i used a different ranged unit to illustrate how even our tankiest foot hero is still easily snipable? It make take 2 rounds instead of 1 but 2 squads of judicators, or skyfires, or kurnoth hunters, slaughter priests,  or any of a dozen other ranged units can pump out enough volume to get that 10 damage through to statistically kill the necromancer.

 

My point stands, we cant keep our heroes safe. We are reliant on the table providing terrain to block LoS.

[AverageBoss]

3 hours ago, deynon said:

Before a put a  unit of skeleton  and couldsummon back better. Before I could have summoned a unit of skeletons without problems, not minding being near the gravesites with an Hero e having to be in the space of the gravesite itself.

Flexible? Before I was able to choose what units summon, now I can't at all.

Spells...meh...good, but not so good and they have to be casted...there is still an opponent and the dice in the middle.

Unstoppable? Forgot about Disciple of Tzeench, Stormcasts? Fireslayers?

 

You are  exalted by this new battletome, it's not a bad thing; but I'm not crazy. I can countereach option that you bring about, cause you can't justify them simply.

 

Waht it is possible to do now, ti was also possible before. We don't have new units (and please, don't tell me that the Palanquin and the VOodrai are enough...

Pretty sure you could not summon 40 man bricks of skeletons before. Pretty sure you could also not restore wounds on Nighthaunt units, nor our bonerattle units to the degree you can now.

Pretty sure Stormcast and Fyreslayers are not known for mass dispelling capability.

And besides the Lord of Change himself, and Destiny Dice (which are fickle and limited), we absolutely rule the magic phase against Tzeentch.

Reports are coming in from all over about Death sweeping events (3 out of top 3 in one event even), where they used to never win a game.

The faction as a whole is MUCH stronger than it used to be.

[Undeadly]

40 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

Sigh, would it make you feel better if i used a different ranged unit to illustrate how even our tankiest foot hero is still easily snipable? It make take 2 rounds instead of 1 but 2 squads of judicators, or skyfires, or kurnoth hunters, slaughter priests,  or any of a dozen other ranged units can pump out enough volume to get that 10 damage through to statistically kill the necromancer.

 

My point stands, we cant keep our heroes safe. We are reliant on the table providing terrain to block LoS.

True, but the same goes for every hero on foot, you know? And your missing the main point of a unit like a Necromancer; that being, a cheap, yet powerful force multiplyer. 2 Squads of Judicators/Kurnoths/Skyfires firing their shots into a Necromancer is not a efficient use of those units. Especially when taking into account what other targets they NEED to be shooting, like the aforementioned VLoZD, Nagash, +2 save Arkhan, etc. Who will also have the -2 to hit/+4, meaning they will have to pour even MORE shots into a unit to make sure it dies, meaning less shots at our other critical units like the Necromancer or VL on foot.

And due to the attention not being on them, they can act freely and push an offensive on enemy units. The best way to have a Necromancer survive being shot is to present an even SCARIER thing that must shot or die instantly. Skeletons and other slower units will be free to move up the field and attack.

MEANWHILE, that means even more units like Hex Wraiths, Black Knights and Morghasts will also be able to attack, because they are aiming all their shots at either the Necromancers or the big scary units. 

If you are disapointed with the lack of protection for on foot heros in general, I understand. But LoN is still AoS, and right now, thats just how AoS rolls.

[deynon]

25 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Pretty sure you could not summon 40 man bricks of skeletons before. Pretty sure you could also not restore wounds on Nighthaunt units, nor our bonerattle units to the degree you can now.

Pretty sure Stormcast and Fyreslayers are not known for mass dispelling capability.

And besides the Lord of Change himself, and Destiny Dice (which are fickle and limited), we absolutely rule the magic phase against Tzeentch.

Reports are coming in from all over about Death sweeping events (3 out of top 3 in one event even), where they used to never win a game.

The faction as a whole is MUCH stronger than it used to be.

you are not summoning, you are deploying them, and guess only having space near gravesites .If the opponents sits on them you can't do it.  You can try to put those 40 models wholly within in the 9" range to heal it after...st you'll ha, you can sacrifice part of them, and ot's a strategy itself, but you'll have to put all the efforts on that unit...

uants? Why should you play them before. Now are a little beter, but a little.

And deathrattle were better

1) Wk with standard now missing it would have protected them

2) healing them without having the babysitter

3) the warscroll battalion that after FAQs has become a joke. 

The only unit gained really from such battletome is the grave guard.

 

You want to rule the magic against tzeench? So you ned to play Nagash or Arkhan ... so you can't play other then using the named characters? Really useful those command traits in that event.

Sweeping...it's easy when the opponent does ot know what they are against. But everything they do now was pposible also before. And healing was much better.

 

As a whole? THe 4 new allegiances can only take by the legion of Nagash battletome and what you can put from the FEC is really few.

GA:D is decreased as options.

Soulblights are the same with the losing for the Blood Knights.

Grand Host of Nagash good for mass of skeletons, but the warscroll battalion is a mess now and you don't have anyway massive impact more than before

Legio of Sacrament : ok you put efforts in magic but it means mainly vampires so short range ones if you don't plan on using Arkhan, but really so you have to always depend on named characters.

Legions of Blood: cute, but also here the Blood Knight lost defence

Legion of Night: interesting, but it was something you could have done also before. Now it's a bit better.

 

Compared you lot a better ability to heal (standards).

You lost the summoning to adapt to your opponent

You lost the zombie strategy

You lost the warscroll battalions (5 for named characters and the 6° screwed now cause FAQ).

 

The faction changed, but that "much stornger" is overstated.

It can do the same things as before, in a different way. The rela difference is the adding of the magic, good thing, but you need those spells to work.

[AverageBoss]

I have had no problems using Gravesites and getting my 40 skeletons out each game. Maybe you need to get better at placing them?

Up to 10D3 healing is MUCH better than a single D6, I have no idea how you can debate that.

You say that all our new rules are just worse versions of our old rules. In the same breath you say we are only winning games because our opponents don't know how the army plays. Those are pretty contradictory statements there.

I 100% guarantee you that any list you build under old GA:D would be absolutely stomped by the same list in Legions (short of Blood Knight focused lists, because those did indeed get nerfed hard) 9 times out of 10.

We lost blood knights, death march, and flexible summoning (which was limited to small units anyways). But we gained debuffs potent enough to completely swing a game, better healing, more synergies, ways to keep our characters alive at range, ways to snipe enemy support characters, gravesites as a MUCH more potent ambush mechanic than old summoning (which mostly amounted to road blocks), and very buffed Black Knights and Hexwraiths.

Also, you want mostly Necromancers in a LoS list. Our debuffs are going to do far more than out damage spells. Though a ZD lord with the shroud is pretty amazing.

[deynon]

2 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

I have had no problems using Gravesites and getting my 40 skeletons out each game. Maybe you need to get better at placing them?

Up to 10D3 healing is MUCH better than a single D6, I have no idea how you can debate that.

You say that all our new rules are just worse versions of our old rules. In the same breath you say we are only winning games because our opponents don't know how the army plays. Those are pretty contradictory statements there.

I 100% guarantee you that any list you build under old GA:D would be absolutely stomped by the same list in Legions (short of Blood Knight focused lists, because those did indeed get nerfed hard) 9 times out of 10.

We lost blood knights, death march, and flexible summoning (which was limited to small units anyways). But we gained debuffs potent enough to completely swing a game, better healing, more synergies, ways to keep our characters alive at range, ways to snipe enemy support characters, gravesites as a MUCH more potent ambush mechanic than old summoning (which mostly amounted to road blocks), and very buffed Black Knights and Hexwraiths.

Also, you want mostly Necromancers in a LoS list. Our debuffs are going to do far more than out damage spells. Though a ZD lord with the shroud is pretty amazing.

it's easy if your opponent is not around.

10d3?  if you have 6 heroes with that ability and 4 gravesites, and it only apply to a single unit... in the same range. A d the territory is different for each mission . Come on , you can't be serious about such a thing. All other unis has to stay where to receive bonuses? before you coud have put the units where you wanted.

not contradictory. The opponent can not be adjusted yet to the differences. After realizing the cunters it's easy solved.

I could say the opposite. Any list means nothing , tou even specify except BK... one of the bet of our previously killer units... we are really better now..oh yes...

 

20  models are not small unis, summoning Terrorgheists and Dragon zombies neither. We onlty gained short range debuffs, healing decreased. Stop saying the opposite. The standard were much better than now. Gravesites much better? You need a hero nearby and space nearby... relly  not limited eh...

 

Blak knight and hexwraiths gained 1A each.. so much to make ygem so great? and you recover on of them on a 3+, if you're in range and have the usages avalaible...

 

Necromamcers are to sightsee but not fight... where do you do damage? VLoZD only improved the dragon, not so amazing to ones playing the FEC ones

[Major]

healthy debate here. I am disappointed there are no new death releases compared to nurgle and stormcast just to name 2. But to be competitive and rank in top field at GT's seems difficult to do still with this new book and the FAQ did not exactly do us any favours. So what does the competitive death list look like if that's the case if there is such a  thing? How is it played? Still so many questions to answer.

[Thostos]

15 minutes ago, deynon said:

it's easy if your opponent is not around.

10d3?  if you have 6 heroes with that ability and 4 gravesites, and it only apply to a single unit... in the same range. A d the territory is different for each mission . Come on , you can't be serious about such a thing. All other unis has to stay where to receive bonuses? before you coud have put the units where you wanted.

not contradictory. The opponent can not be adjusted yet to the differences. After realizing the cunters it's easy solved.

I could say the opposite. Any list means nothing , tou even specify except BK... one of the bet of our previously killer units... we are really better now..oh yes...

 

20  models are not small unis, summoning Terrorgheists and Dragon zombies neither. We onlty gained short range debuffs, healing decreased. Stop saying the opposite. The standard were much better than now. Gravesites much better? You need a hero nearby and space nearby... relly  not limited eh...

 

Blak knight and hexwraiths gained 1A each.. so much to make ygem so great? and you recover on of them on a 3+, if you're in range and have the usages avalaible...

 

Necromamcers are to sightsee but not fight... where do you do damage? VLoZD only improved the dragon, not so amazing to ones playing the FEC ones

Gotta ask,,have you played a build with the new LoN book?,,it sounds like you havent,

  Ive played 5 games with 3 being in a tournament,,LoN has brought GA death from the low mid tables to the top tables,and is currently the most feared book out there.I regrow over twice as many models as I used to with banners,Hexwriaths can regrow now,,BKs are twice the effectiveness as they were for the same price,the spell lore is highly effective at shutting down key units in the opponents army,and my farorite part of it all Nagash is a VERY viable choice for the table top now.

 Theres a reason why Death summoning lists never made it past mid tables in tournaments,,it just didnt work.Now with grave sites,we can place them to spoof players or pile them into one area and grind down armies with unkillable units and regrow.

 

[AverageBoss]

2 minutes ago, Major said:

healthy debate here. I am disappointed there are no new death releases compared to nurgle and stormcast just to name 2. But to be competitive and rank in top field at GT's seems difficult to do still with this new book and the FAQ did not exactly do us any favours. So what does the competitive death list look like if that's the case if there is such a  thing? How is it played? Still so many questions to answer.

Imo, I think most lists will want at least 2 Necromancers and a Vampire Lord to start for characters.

Most will be taking Skeletons and Dire Wolves for battleline (both are fantastic choices).

You will also probably want 2-3 dedicated hammers. You could turn your Vampire Lord into a ZD Lord for one (though possibly only in LoS where he can benefit from shooting protection, or LoB where double ZD might be a thing). Terrorgheist and Morghast Harbingers are also great options.

Extra heroes, Black Knights, Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts can all bring different things to the list, and the latter three can fill multiple roles.

With 4+ heroes, a Mortis Engine might be a decent investment. Same with a Corpse Cart, which can also be good for your Dire Wolves.

This changes slightly for different legions. Grand Host probably wants as many skeletons as you can get for hands on. Legion of Night wants units that can threaten as soon as they ambush. Blood wants 2 Zombie Dragons most likely.

I think First Cohort and Lords of Sacrament are our only 2 competitive battalions. Though both dictate the flow of the rest of your list in other ways.

Setting 100 points aside for a Balewind could be great for us. Almost an auto choice in a LoS battalion imo.

A decent, at least mid table list might look like:
 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Vampiric Sword & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Mastery of Death
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Spectral Grasp
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
Terrorgheist (300)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

Of course Bound to the Master would also be a good trait in this list. You could also change one of the necros into a VL if you would rather have a 2nd offensive spell.
 

[deynon]

1 minute ago, Thostos said:

Gotta ask,,have you played a build with the new LoN book?,,it sounds like you havent,

  Ive played 5 games with 3 being in a tournament,,LoN has brought GA death from the low mid tables to the top tables,and is currently the most feared book out there.I regrow over twice as many models as I used to with banners,Hexwriaths can regrow now,,BKs are twice the effectiveness as they were for the same price,the spell lore is highly effective at shutting down key units in the opponents army,and my farorite part of it all Nagash is a VERY viable choice for the table top now.

 Theres a reason why Death summoning lists never made it past mid tables in tournaments,,it just didnt work.Now with grave sites,we can place them to spoof players or pile them into one area and grind down armies with unkillable units and regrow.

 

 

Played quite a bit, not worry, and 5 games are not a statistic

black knight almost didn't have efectiveness before. The hexwraith gained a bit, surely. I hope you meant black knights cause blood knights lost quite a bit.

The gravesites are to be usable to work. Enemies on the points of gravesites or missing heroes nearby prevent them working for summoning.

I was used to pkay similar things also with the Storm of Chaos, using such gravesites is not something new. About healing they are bette rolling  a1, oyherways you need 2 deathly invocations to meet a single standard.

If LoN:B it's good at aummoning back so FEC are amazing a d better than them.

The gam changed for Death withthis battletome, but its not something new. And I can do as before, changed tbings are only abput the magic hat id good, but not something to rely on.

But if now things sound good they were also before such.

 

Sincerely I don't value the touranent positioning as the strenght of the army. Too many things to influence th results. They are not reliable as screening

[AverageBoss]

High end tournaments are the best way to measure the average strength of an army over time. They attract the best players who know their and their opponents armies inside and out. Death as a whole has struggled to break top 20 at major events since GHB2017 dropped, and only did really well with TKs and Mourngul lists before that.

FEC healing is not even anywhere close to what LoN can do. The Courtiers that can do so, roll 6 dice. 2+ heals ghouls and ghouls only. The bigger courtiers can heal specific special units on a 5+. None of those courtiers bring as much to the table as our Necromancers or Vampires (not anywhere close). And a Necromancer is capable of as much healing as a courtier (if he targets two units). A Vampire can heal 9 wounds on units. Gravesites just exist, and there is nothing your opponent can do to stop their healing.

Your opponent can race you to all 4 gravesites as fast as he can and camp them the whole game to prevent summoning. But then he is probably wasting more resources babysitting than you are holding in reserve.

And Hexwraiths did not gain "some". They gained quite a few things. Summonable means they can be healed and resurrected. They can also be targeted by things that target summonable units, such as Vanhels dance. They gained Frightful Touch in melee. Their ride over attack increased from a 6+ to a 5+.

[Major]

48 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Imo, I think most lists will want at least 2 Necromancers and a Vampire Lord to start for characters.

Most will be taking Skeletons and Dire Wolves for battleline (both are fantastic choices).

You will also probably want 2-3 dedicated hammers. You could turn your Vampire Lord into a ZD Lord for one (though possibly only in LoS where he can benefit from shooting protection, or LoB where double ZD might be a thing). Terrorgheist and Morghast Harbingers are also great options.

Extra heroes, Black Knights, Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts can all bring different things to the list, and the latter three can fill multiple roles.

With 4+ heroes, a Mortis Engine might be a decent investment. Same with a Corpse Cart, which can also be good for your Dire Wolves.

This changes slightly for different legions. Grand Host probably wants as many skeletons as you can get for hands on. Legion of Night wants units that can threaten as soon as they ambush. Blood wants 2 Zombie Dragons most likely.

I think First Cohort and Lords of Sacrament are our only 2 competitive battalions. Though both dictate the flow of the rest of your list in other ways.

Setting 100 points aside for a Balewind could be great for us. Almost an auto choice in a LoS battalion imo.

A decent, at least mid table list might look like:
 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Vampiric Sword & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Mastery of Death
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Spectral Grasp
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
Terrorgheist (300)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

Of course Bound to the Master would also be a good trait in this list. You could also change one of the necros into a VL if you would rather have a 2nd offensive spell.
 

I see what your saying. It's difficult I guess in some ways. I want LoS for example but I want to take Arkhan with me. I would like to take VLoZD also but then you lose your ability to put hordes of things on the table when you also need at least 2 necros in there due to points constraints I guess. The hunt for the perfect LoS list continues. I have the same issue with Nagash, I have the model, I want to use him, but I haven't found a list that stands out as strongly competitive yet.

Side note: Kinda ticked I built 4 arkai and no harbingers as most people are leaning towards the extra charge range as being the better option.

[MrCharisma]

1 minute ago, Major said:

Side note: Kinda ticked I built 4 arkai and no harbingers as most people are leaning towards the extra charge range as being the better option.

1

Get Brynly to kick them down the stairs... the parts will loosen up and you can make them Harbingers instead.

[Major]

5 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

Get Brynly to kick them down the stairs... the parts will loosen up and you can make them Harbingers instead.

Hahaha, too late! I won't lie.. I may have a plan for  revenge in the works.

[Major]

But #realtalk: It's difficult I guess in some ways. I want LoS for example but I want to take Arkhan with me. I would like to take VLoZD also but then you lose your ability to put hordes of things on the table when you also need at least 2 necros in there due to points constraints I guess. The hunt for the perfect LoS list continues. I have the same issue with Nagash, I have the model, I want to use him, but I haven't found a list that stands out as strongly competitive yet.

[Sception]

2 hours ago, Major said:

Side note: Kinda ticked I built 4 arkai and no harbingers as most people are leaning towards the extra charge range as being the better option.

Archai have a distinct niche in first cohort lists (just a shame the bodyguard rule wasn't something they just did outside of that formation, even if at 4+ or even 5+, but whatever), which is relevant if you're trying to make Nagash work.

Outside of that, Harbingers loom better, though I personally feel archai are only slightly worse, and absolutely still runable, in anything other than legion of night lists, where ambushing makes the imoroved charge range that much more important.

[Arael_Greywings]

I think we should also not forget that Death is still a lot more versatile than many other armies.  Putting aside Manny the Mourngoul and FEC, whereas the latter can still be brought in as allies, you have 4 Allegiances with totally different playstyles and options which can take nearly all currently available Death Models into that Allegiance.  As we have already seen here with all the different lists popping up, there loads of diffferent ways we can build our armies. If we look at the typical Sylvaneth or Nurgle or Tzeentch Player they are a lot more limited imho.

[stratigo]

7 hours ago, Gotrek said:

Sigh, would it make you feel better if i used a different ranged unit to illustrate how even our tankiest foot hero is still easily snipable? It make take 2 rounds instead of 1 but 2 squads of judicators, or skyfires, or kurnoth hunters, slaughter priests,  or any of a dozen other ranged units can pump out enough volume to get that 10 damage through to statistically kill the necromancer.

 

My point stands, we cant keep our heroes safe. We are reliant on the table providing terrain to block LoS.

 

That's the thing. You CAN keep your heroes safe. Very safe in fact. No he's ot going to survive dedicated shooting. But you only need ONE to survive usually. And you'll have 4 or 5. The usual suspects will snipe one a turn until you neuter them, and provided there isn't a bigger threat to shoot. But you have enough that it doesn't particularly matter.