State of the Aelf Union

[Filius]

Hi there,

I've been following the development of Age of Sigmar eversince it's launch with lot's of sympathy for the Game and the Changes, Games Workshop made, but I haven't started playing yet (because of Family, Company and stuff). But I keep reading Battletomes, Blogs and Forums like this her. One thing, I still don't understand after nearly three years is the State of the Aelfs. I do know and understand, that they wanted to break up the big Armies of Oldhammer in order to … uhhm … balance the Game more (?) and put the Players focus on the new Factions. But … I can hardly understand that. What good is a Lion Rangers Micro-Faction? The Switfhawk-Agents and the Wanderers (and yes, the Daughters of Khain soo, too) seem to be the only half-heartedly supported Factions.

Sooo … what's the Point of this Topic? I am curious, how the Aelf-Players around here (and esp. those, who started Aelf after the AoS Launch) see their Armies and plan the Future of their Collection. Do you care about the Micro-Factionalisation of the Aelfs? Do you focus in the "big" Aelf-Factions? What do you think is the realistic Future of the Aelfs (not the one you wish for)?

Thanks in advance!

[zedatkinszed]

A realistic future of Aelfs? Well here's the present.

• Wanderers and Darkling Covens have GHB17 allegiance abilities and artefacts
• DoK (will) have a battletome
• Shadowkin are probably coming at some point
• GW has released City alliance as part of Firestorm
  • Order Serpentis and Scourgerunners are heavily involved with the Anvilgard alliance.
  • Pheonix temple discovered the Pheonixium
  • Swifthawks, Eldrich council, Order Draconis are involved with Tempest’s Eye & Hallowheart
  • Hammerhal covers the whole of Order

I had hoped that Swifthawks and the Eldrich council would be consolidated into a "Spireguard" army but since the Spire of Dawn is gone I have no clue.  That really leaves the Shadowblades and Lion rangers and I have literally no clue what will happen here. My less hopeful outlook is that some will become obsolete in the medium term. 

There will eventually be a Light Aelf faction and I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if GW didn't follow DoK and Shadowkin with a Light Aelf rebox or new release.  But as yet there's nothing on the horizon

[DantePQ]

I think that the fact that "HE factions" are absent from Gh2017 something is coming up for Light Aelves. I wouldn't be suprised that the second Aelf faction are inneed Light Aelves/ Some kind of HE and Shadowkin could arrive in 2019 or later on. Also lore woudl suggest so (for this moment as BT DoK lore could prove my theory very wrong) 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I can only speak for what used to be Dark Elves but we are all fine  Thanks for asking 

Seriously though, its difficult to have an opinion on AoS before you get into it and start playing. The many very cool things about the game are not immediately obvious from reading the rules. Many people, including me, took one look at the 4 page core rules and dismissed the game right away.

If you are looking for Aelven lore - there is not much at the moment. I think GW are still in the process of deciding where Aelves fit into the official lore of the mortal realms. But there is enough for you to add some imagination and just run with it. Its a massive setting so you can't be "wrong"

Play -wise I have been able to write lists for Daughters of Khaine and Darkling Covens which are competitive at a casual club level - they won't hold up to the really top tier lists but are good enough to take on your average "friendly" game with mates.

Order Serpentis, scourge privateers and shadowblades are less viable but make great additions as allies to ad variety to DC and Dok Armies.

You can always go grand alliance and bring all the sub factions back together or even bring in units from the other elf factions - I have some shadow warriors converted with repeater xbows, some Sisters of the watch (Avelorn) with witch elf heads, some evil looking glade guard and some Dragonblades (princes of caledor) converted with drakespawn knight bits that make much better dark elves than they did high elves imo!!

I love what they have done with the elf factions - I have all the freedom in the world to convert, choose colour schemes, build lists, invent lore - everything

And now there are loads of factions for them to develop - not just 3.

+ I still have my WFB wood elf army if I'm feeling nostalgic so wins all round from my perspective! 

[zedatkinszed]

20 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Seriously though, its difficult to have an opinion on AoS before you get into it and start playing. The many very cool things about the game are not immediately obvious from reading the rules. Many people, including me, took one look at the 4 page core rules and dismissed the game right away.

If you are looking for Aelven lore - there is not much at the moment. I think GW are still in the process of deciding where Aelves fit into the official lore of the mortal realms. But there is enough for you to add some imagination and just run with it. Its a massive setting so you can't be "wrong"

4

20 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I love what they have done with the elf factions - I have all the freedom in the world to convert, choose colour schemes, build lists, invent lore - everything

And now there are loads of factions for them to develop - not just 3.

1

Definitely! From a collecting, and converting point of view I love the cities and general Order Alliance. In WHFB I never liked High Elves. Now, I own multiple Eldrich Council heroes.

When AOS launched I was not thrilled about Stormcast. But now I have 10 liberators, the Shadespire team and 4 SCE Heroes. I also have random Order heroes from the 2 Warhammer Quest box sets, like the Cogsmith, the Doomseeker, the Excelsior Warpriest, the Mistweaver Saih and the Tenebrael shard (and TBH a whole mixed Chaos army but that's a whole other story ). All of this plus my old Dark Elf models equals almost limitless possibilities.

• 2 Dragons + Stormcast + three flavours of Aelf magic users. 
• Hydras, DoK, Darkling Covens and Stormcast Heroes

Seriously if you can dream it you can have it! But like Twitch of Izalith says what's Tourney competitive might be a different question

 

[Nutty]

To me the subfactions are a royal pain in the rear... but that is probably due to the fact that I'm used to the idea of Warhammer Fantasy, and the whole "you can field all your Dark Elves in an order detachment, along with a walking tree, a dinosaur and  7 dwarves" doesn't really do it for me. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that I need to ally in Dark Elves with my other Dark Elves, but that trying to ally in the wrong kind of Dark Elf means my army is no longer a Dark Elf army but an Order army that I can fluffwise call a Dark Elf army. 

I never really played any of the "End Times" content, but I flipped through the books the other day. There are some interesting ideas for armies in 'Khaine' book with the 'Host of the Phoenix King' & 'Host of the Eternity King' and the idea of a united (a)elven army is something that has captured my interest. But having to choose between using units you like or having artifacts/abilities that fit your chosen faction is just silly to me.

The system might start to grow on me over time.. or I can start turning into my grandfather and go off about 'how everything was better in my day'

[DantePQ]

Look you can go all HE and just use Order ability and items. It's not like HE factions Allegiance has any advantage at the moment. 

I think that when new Aelves come they could 

a) use of the the existing units 

b) totally fresh take on Aelves

And I lean towards option a) as there is too many kits farily new that GW wants to sell and  I guess that right know without even GH2017 treatment they are not selling very well. 

[Filius]

Thanks everyone for the Feedback. That sounds really nice, especially as I am as far away from playing on Tournaments than I am a away from flying to the moon. Having almost 50 kitbashable Sets is a nice thing, and having a setting the allows them all to play together is even nicer … (and the 8th Edition High Elves Book just arrived as I write this reply, hihi).

[Tidings]

I'm a long-time Wood Elf player, and I am generally disappointed with how AoS has treated Elves. First, Sylvaneth got broken off, which was a large portion of the Wood Elve's army. Then, half the remaining elves got the Wanderer keyword and the other half didn't. Furthermore, they can't be allied. So to play Wardancers and Waywatchers with your Waywatcher hero, you can't play Wanderers. You have to play Order. 

That's just dumb. But there's a bright side. I love converting models, and now I can pick high elf phoenixes, the OP Hurricanum, dragons from other Order armies etc and convert them to aesthetically fit my Wood Elves. So even though I play a Mixed Order army, I FEEL like I have a much more complete army in terms of unit selection and I love doing the conversions.

So at a high level, I don't like how AoS has handled the Elven factions. But it's more or less worked out well for me in the end.

On a side note, seeing the way GW is handling all of Death's subfactions gives me hope for how they will rebuild elves in the future. 

[Filius]

@Tidings Thanks for that insight. This is pretty much how the Aelf seem from the outside: Wanderers are the "Core" Aelf Faction with most love and fluff in terms of Allegiance Abilities and such, while having the biggest range of Minis. But on the other hand the Fluff is sooo open, with just stating that most of the Wanderers wander around, while all the others (except the Exiles) stick in Azyrheim with Sigmar, that you can always mix any Aelf Mini into mostly any army, if you get the colour scheme or narrative straight.

Yeah …  and … I would even go further … although the Aelves are neither competitive, nor do they get the same attention / goodies (Battletome, Warscrollcards, Dice, Shadespire Team etc.) as the hip Factions … but on the other hand: That is an opportunity – you get to build an Army and an Idea of a Warband, that is beyond the former borders and clichés of High Elves vs. Wood Elves vs. Dark Elves, as defined by the main fluff, and maybe now is that best time to do that, now, that there isn't a new Battletome to establish those borders and clichés again (like the all-fire and all-gold thing of the Fyreslayers Battletome did) …

[Tidings]

Exactly! It's absolutely the best opportunity to get creative with an Elf faction, since GW has yet to do so (lol). I guess that's not fair since they are releasing Daughters of Kaine soon. But the other factions are too split and under-supported to take as is. Even the Wanderers, who have the most support, are still pretty simplistic as an army goes when it comes to unit selection and the playstyles they are capable of. On top of that, they aren't competitive compared to just using the varied units of Mixed Order and making them LOOK like an elf army. 

[someone2040]

6 hours ago, Tidings said:

I'm a long-time Wood Elf player, and I am generally disappointed with how AoS has treated Elves. First, Sylvaneth got broken off, which was a large portion of the Wood Elve's army. Then, half the remaining elves got the Wanderer keyword and the other half didn't. Furthermore, they can't be allied. So to play Wardancers and Waywatchers with your Waywatcher hero, you can't play Wanderers. You have to play Order. 

That's just dumb. But there's a bright side. I love converting models, and now I can pick high elf phoenixes, the OP Hurricanum, dragons from other Order armies etc and convert them to aesthetically fit my Wood Elves. So even though I play a Mixed Order army, I FEEL like I have a much more complete army in terms of unit selection and I love doing the conversions.

So at a high level, I don't like how AoS has handled the Elven factions. But it's more or less worked out well for me in the end.

On a side note, seeing the way GW is handling all of Death's subfactions gives me hope for how they will rebuild elves in the future. 

I think that's GW just being a-holes in their attempt to push Compendium out of the competitive game. I really wish that they had kept the keywords, but either not given them points (leave it up to the fans to do it) or just made compendium not eligible in their events. I think the reason they didn't do the latter is the Compendium brand is not just the out of print items, but it also covers Forgeworld in print items (for instance, technically Legion of Azgor is compendium).

 

As for the state of Aelves. I think there are a few good points to make on them.

Wanderers and Darkling Covens are pretty well fleshed out armies. Wanderers especially is pretty rounded with a variety of heroes and units. The Covens IMO suffer a bit from not being combined with the Order Serpentis. But overall, both armies have allegiance abilities and seem interesting to play.

You can still make your old school High/Dark/Wood Elf lists. Grand Alliance lists while can be used to run whacky skink + collegiate + random Aelves, can also be used to run more thematic gatherings of units that creep outside allies limits. It's not like in the old world you could pick the best parts of the lists either, you had to have your core built up around Dreadspears and Repeater Xbows for Dark Elves, or Glade Guard and Dryads for Wood Elves.

It's a bit less satisfying for High Elves, because obviously you need to broach into OOP compendium units (or try and hunt down Reavers which somehow are battleline).

Of course, you're not going to have your synergies affecting everything in your army, but it's still possible to do a combined High/Dark/Wood Aelf list.

 

Lastly, of course you can go down to a sub-faction level. As mentioned earlier, the Wanderers and Darkling Covens are in pretty decent spots if you do this because they've got a decent amount of flexibility in their faction. All the other sub-factions don't tend to have this flexibility, so you're really building an army based around a few kits plus a limited ally pool. These can also make cool armies, because you're really focusing on one particular aspect of Aelf lore. The arcane workings of the Eldritch Council, the Dragonlords of the Order Draconis, the pirate life of the Scourge Privateers, etc.

 

That being said, it will be interesting to see what GW takes the Aelves in the future. GW have explored completely new factions for races, expanding sub-factions and also, re-combining factions under a single tome. I think it all depends on what Games Workshops plans are for a particular faction.

It would not surprise me to be honest, to see the remainder of the Dark Aelves dished up in a battletome for instance in the future. There are a few cool concepts they could explore further (like the Scourge Privateers), but I don't really see them exploring the Covens, Order Serpentis or Shadowblades any further. Which you know, would actually make a very cool army themselves as it links back together all the Dark Aelf factions with the same aesthetic (The Privateers and Daughters obviously have pretty different aesthetic choices with the scaly cloaks on the former and bare skin on the latter).

[Jamopower]

8 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I think that's GW just be

You can still make your old school High/Dark/Wood Elf lists. Grand Alliance lists while can be used to run whacky skink + collegiate + random Aelves, can also be used to run more thematic gatherings of units that creep outside allies limits. It's not like in the old world you could pick the best parts of the lists either, you had to have your core built up around Dreadspears and Repeater Xbows for Dark Elves, or Glade Guard and Dryads for Wood Elves.

It's a bit less satisfying for High Elves, because obviously you need to broach into OOP compendium units (or try and hunt down Reavers which somehow are battleline).

 

If you are running generic grand alliance order, I don't think you lose anything if you just play with dreadspears as spearmen and glade guard as archers. In fact I think that's the exact reason why the high elven basic infantry was dropped to compendium, as they were essentially the same units, but with older model kits.

[Somanlius]

Well, I've been playing High Elves on and off for the last few months, and I can say, gameplay wise, they are still pretty great. I managed to get 2 boxes of Spire of Dawn around September, along with a Loremaster, Dragonlord, some Dragon Blades and a Dragon Noble and they have not let me down yet. Played about 15 games with them and have not lost once. I just picked up a Frostheart Phoenix and converted a Flamespyre from the extra High Warden I had, so Im eager to try them out some more. 

I play against Freeguild, Ironjawz, Dark Elves, Beastclaw, Gutbusters, Nurgle, and Death/Soulblight in my local scene and since my High Elves are currently on an undefeated streak I've had to briefly retire them from guilt

So they can still be hugely effective, even with the fractured factions. 

Oh, and my best friend has Dark Elves who are also very competitive. Probably the second strongest in the local scene at the moment. He uses mostly Darkling Covens with a converted Hurricanum, 2 Dreadlords on Dragons, and sometimes 2 Hydras and a bolt thrower. Very cool looking army that can kick serious ass if you are not careful.

I hope they do something like Legions of Nagash for Aelves. That would be a great way to bring together the factions will cool new abilities and synergies. 

[Filius]

Just bought my first Box of Eternal Guard today … so thanks everyone for the motivation!