Elmir Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Possibly, but I don't see her getting it off in turn 1 though due to range. Turn 2 onwards, she could... But I think you may have to keep her out of melee to do so, unless then chances for a counterstrike is very low. Neferate isn't the hardest model to kill, even with her ethereal spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, Elmir said: Oh sure: Neferata (400) General VLoZD (440) VLoZD (440) Blood seeker palanquin (320) ---- Court of Nulahmia (70) 10 dire wolves (120) 10 dire wolves (120) 5 dire wolves (60) Total: 1970 It's a 4 drop list (so deffo not a guaranteed 1st turn) BUT.... Neferata will move 20", BSP 18", 2 VLoZD 18" (one with pionions possibly 23"), allowing you to set up for a lot of turn 1 charges in a zone where you can spread nefy's debuff aura pretty much across the table against the majority of enemy troops. If your opponent deploys on the edge of his setup zone, you are talking very doable charge distances of 3", 4" and 6" respectively. For even more movement fun take one of the vamps on foot and vortex push the rest. Adds 5” or so to the numbers above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtyn Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, Elmir said: Possibly, but I don't see her getting it off in turn 1 though due to range. Turn 2 onwards, she could... But I think you may have to keep her out of melee to do so, unless then chances for a counterstrike is very low. Neferate isn't the hardest model to kill, even with her ethereal spell. The massive advantage you have is that the focus is on the vampire lords on ZD. 2 of them with extra attacks will melt most units, they're tanky and can dish it out. if your opponent kills neffy then so what? It's about 2 turns of free VL damage at which point you will probably be able to claim most objectives and have destroyed a large portion of his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ashtyn said: The massive advantage you have is that the focus is on the vampire lords on ZD. 2 of them with extra attacks will melt most units, they're tanky and can dish it out. if your opponent kills neffy then so what? It's about 2 turns of free VL damage at which point you will probably be able to claim most objectives and have destroyed a large portion of his army. Pretty much. This style of lost is something im leaning towards. Target saturation...who would you lay all your fire power into turn 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 The monster mash list definitely looks fun, but I don't know if I'd ever run it. I prefer more balanced approaches, specifically for Legion of Blood my choice of list would be something like this: (I love putting my lists in excels to see what they would look like ) Of course I'm probably wrong and it's better to go all out with Blood considering the allegiance bonuses you get haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 To me Blood is the aggressive in your face style. Night is the surprise ******! list and Sacrament and Grand Host are the slow and purposeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 This is my take on the Lords of Sacrament. I think target saturation will be key. Give the opponent some things to think about. Shoot the VLoZD that will come crashing down on you? Attempt to shoot the necro that will go on the balewind but he will have -2 to shooting? Take out Arkhan, the books second best caster? Or take out the center of the battalion which is the Mortis Engine. The only faction that would be capable of dealing with all those threats would be Tzeenth and even that will take some hot dice and luck. Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Necromancer (110)- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceVampire Lord (140)- Lore of the Vampires: SoulpikeBattleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spears10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (70) SceneryBalewind Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtyn Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Malakithe said: This is my take on the Lords of Sacrament. I think target saturation will be key. Give the opponent some things to think about. Shoot the VLoZD that will come crashing down on you? Attempt to shoot the necro that will go on the balewind but he will have -2 to shooting? Take out Arkhan, the books second best caster? Or take out the center of the battalion which is the Mortis Engine. The only faction that would be capable of dealing with all those threats would be Tzeenth and even that will take some hot dice and luck. Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Necromancer (110)- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceVampire Lord (140)- Lore of the Vampires: SoulpikeBattleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spears10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (70) SceneryBalewind Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 I was thinking of something similar. However I was going to run 4 Harbringers or 10 Hexwraiths along with 9 spirits as my hammers. If you get any practice games in let me know how they go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 @Malakithe Yeah in my excel I have a list that's basically the same for sacrament and another one that combines Deathmarch + Lords of Sacrament for a 2 drop. Both look really good but the former does offer higher target saturation. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to put it into practice since my friend plays Tzeentch (he switches between Changehost and Skyfires) and I don't think the list is particularly good vs those match-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 59 minutes ago, Ashtyn said: I was thinking of something similar. However I was going to run 4 Harbringers or 10 Hexwraiths along with 9 spirits as my hammers. If you get any practice games in let me know how they go! My thought was 4×Harbingers as well but I figured having a beefy combat wizard would work out better in a magic heavy list. The VLoZD is less of a hammer and more of a tanky wizard with dmg added on. 57 minutes ago, smucreo said: @Malakithe Yeah in my excel I have a list that's basically the same for sacrament and another one that combines Deathmarch + Lords of Sacrament for a 2 drop. Both look really good but the former does offer higher target saturation. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to put it into practice since my friend plays Tzeentch (he switches between Changehost and Skyfires) and I don't think the list is particularly good vs those match-ups. Im not a fan of Lords of Sacrament + Deathmarch. Ever since it was talked about everyone seems to think its good. You get a 2 drop list. Thats it. A good amount of bodies but no actual damage output. And once the Wight King is dead the battalion is useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Malakithe said: My thought was 4×Harbingers as well but I figured having a beefy combat wizard would work out better in a magic heavy list. The VLoZD is less of a hammer and more of a tanky wizard with dmg added on. Im not a fan of Lords of Sacrament + Deathmarch. Ever since it was talked about everyone seems to think its good. You get a 2 drop list. Thats it. A good amount of bodies but no actual damage output. And once the Wight King is dead the battalion is useless For the sacrement list, personally, I'd drop the vamp lord and 10 dire wolves for 10 black knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Burf said: For the sacrement list, personally, I'd drop the vamp lord and 10 dire wolves for 10 black knights. Yeah the Vampire Lord was just tossed in due to a lack of any ideas but an extra spell cant hurt. As far as removing the dogs they are battleline so cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtyn Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Yeah the Vampire Lord was just tossed in due to a lack of any ideas but an extra spell cant hurt. As far as removing the dogs they are battleline so cant If you drop the vamp lord and up the dire wolves you've got a 5 drop army. I'm actually trying to do the mental math and figure out how badly the loss of Arkhan is to the army. Obviously you lose curse of years and the +2 to unbind BUT your necros still cast 2 spells a turn as long as the Mortis is up and running and they're sitting at plus 2 to cast, if on a bale wind plus 3. Meaning you can still dish out a large volume of magic and you've got the hammers needed to counter and debuff they're big hitters from your own turn. Grrr wish I could just get out there and play a game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerlin Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 1:07 PM, Malakithe said: *cough*SKAVEN*cough* But yeah...Death was never meant to be played like those other faction. Doesnt fit the lore or style. We win through cheap unending masses that we have to replenish as the battle goes on and destabilize the battlefield. March those blocks of skellies up or ambush them. Khorne coming at you? Hit em with either half movement, one dice to charge, soulpike, or -1 attacks, -1 to hit...or all! Same with SCE...teleporting block of libs? Hit with -1 to hit and -1 attacks and let them sit there. Sure skellies cant touch them but there wont be able to chew through a block of 40 reviving skellies while debuffed. Got to use the tactics and tools available. Also i really want to see Skaven get a LoN style book lol Same here. The skaven book would be awesome. I think death players like wooly are pre bitching just so they dont get nerfed. It is a great book with lots of character that puts death solidly in the running as a good army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I have used Arkhan vs Tzeentch and I have to say he was super useful for dispelling those pesky Gaunt Summoner spells that would have otherwise destroyed my skeleton horde. Apart from that the extra range of Soul Harvest is super nice and the battalion that comes with him actually uses pretty good units and gives a nice bonus, so I would say it's a pretty big loss. The main thing for me in Sacrament is that you need to find effective hammers because you'll be scrambling for points once you start including Arkhan and his battalion + battleline, though I guess you could just go for minimal battleline with the 3x5 or even 3x10 dogs and jam some Terrorgheists in there haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Malakithe said: This is my take on the Lords of Sacrament. I think target saturation will be key. Give the opponent some things to think about. Shoot the VLoZD that will come crashing down on you? Attempt to shoot the necro that will go on the balewind but he will have -2 to shooting? Take out Arkhan, the books second best caster? Or take out the center of the battalion which is the Mortis Engine. The only faction that would be capable of dealing with all those threats would be Tzeenth and even that will take some hot dice and luck. Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Necromancer (110)- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceVampire Lord (140)- Lore of the Vampires: SoulpikeBattleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spears10 x Dire Wolves (120)10 x Dire Wolves (120)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (70) SceneryBalewind Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 132 Like this list a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLC Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Is all the magic in legion of Sacrement enough firepower? I see these lists w 1 40 block of skeles and I'm just wondering what you're counting on do do the work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Cult Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Have finally finished my Carrion. Now I really should do something of current use. I’m a bit daunted by my painting backlog. Sitting in front of me (all unbuilt) are Arkhan, 20 Grave Guard, 5 hex wraiths and a Knight of Shrouds. Where to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 hours ago, LLC said: Is all the magic in legion of Sacrement enough firepower? I see these lists w 1 40 block of skeles and I'm just wondering what you're counting on do do the work The magic itself doesnt have the firepower. Its not like Tzeentch magic. Its for heavy debuffing and stripping some wounds here and there. I might tweak the list a bit too. Its easy enough to slap in 2×40 skellies in that set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_Cypher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Trying to decide between the three variants of Coven Throne, Palanquin, and Mortis Engine. What's the main difference in the assembly of the Coven Throne and the Palanquin? The absence of the other two vampires? And for that matter, is the matched play points worth it for the upgrade from one to the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lou_Cypher said: Trying to decide between the three variants of Coven Throne, Palanquin, and Mortis Engine. What's the main difference in the assembly of the Coven Throne and the Palanquin? The absence of the other two vampires? And for that matter, is the matched play points worth it for the upgrade from one to the other? They all have very different roles. Rules wise you cant compare them. Youll need to design a list and see which, if any, fills a spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_Cypher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, Malakithe said: They all have very different roles. Rules wise you cant compare them. Youll need to design a list and see which, if any, fills a spot Thinking of mostly Legion of Night with either Mannfred or Vhordrai I think. Maybe with some Vargheists if I'm going with the Palanquin for anything purposes. I'd imagine it works better with Legion of Blood but eh... not a fan of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, Lou_Cypher said: Thinking of mostly Legion of Night with either Mannfred or Vhordrai I think. Maybe with some Vargheists if I'm going with the Palanquin for anything purposes. I'd imagine it works better with Legion of Blood but eh... not a fan of that one. Blood bonuses dont effect Vargheists or Prince Fancypants so you can go any direction. Night could work just fine. But yes the Bloodseeker would buff them once you take out a hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Modeler Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 1:19 PM, Richelieu said: Upon close inspection of Nagash's new warscroll, i see that they have changed the wording on Morikhane to activate when a wound is allocated rather than suffered. This is tremendously important. Remember that when two of your abilities trigger at the same time you decide which goes first. In the First Cohort Battalion you would now get to use the following sequence: Mortal wound allocated to nagash > trigger Morikhane save > fail > trigger Ceaseless vigil attempt > allocate wound to Morghast Archai > trigger Eben-Wrought Armour save > fail > mortal wound is finally suffered. This comes out to an 83.3% probability of Nagash not suffering a mortal wound directed at him and a 61.1% probability that a mortal wound allocated to him will be saved by either him or the Morghast. That is astounding. Isn’t it even higher than that because after you fail yourEben Armour save you still get the 6+ from Deathless Minion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Im trying to tweak my Sacrament list and I always end up with some odd ball amount like 1950 or 1970...grrr.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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