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A Kingdom of Isolation (Phoenix Temple Blog) - 25/09 - FHGT Display Board pics


Chris Tomlin

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Afternoon all,

Sorry for the delayed replies, unfortunately I have not been on TGA as much as I'd like.

On 11/04/2018 at 2:25 PM, EMMachine said:

The main problem is, that there isn't much lore. Mostly the Grand Alliance Book plus perhaps the the firestorm campaign. I only have the feeling (when looking at your highter listbuilds (1200 and 2000 Points) that 3-4 Anointed could be a little much for the Army size. It looks like the army is lead by 3-4 Generals.

I know, its not the best example but when we look at the Spyreheart Warhost in the Grand Alliance Book, we have 1 Anointed, 2 units of Phoenix Guard and 2-4 Phoenix Models (and since one of the Erratas the 2-4 Phoenix' can't get the Anointed Upgrade), so unmounted Phoenix'  should be more common than mounted ones.

The example lacks in the point that we can't get a Anointed riding a Phoenix in this Battalion anymore (after it's still the Warscrollname, not the Keyword ANOINTED used in the Warscoll).

Yeah, that's a real problem in that case (and it's a quite rare one).  Either the Mounted Phoenix is too cheep or the unmounted one is too expensive. It's quite different than giving a character a horse, where in most cases the model simply has a higher move and maybe 2 Attacks hitting on 4+ and wounding on 5+ (or the other way around).

One thing is, we actually don't know if or how they will change it, but for the case that you're not only going for the most efficient listbuild it could be much saver taking some unmounted Phoenixmodels than perpaps crippling the nicely themed army after a update.

At the moment the army is containing Darkling Covens, Daughers of Khaine and Order Serpentis (most Order Serpentis Models aren't glued yet). If I plan correcty my army will include 3 Black ... ehm Frost dragons. 2 Sorceress (one as the Queen of the group) and a Dreadlord as the King and General.

I don't know yet if I want to make some Frostaelves with Phoenix Temple and/or Eldritch Counsil.

Yeh agree tbh mate, there doesn't seem to be much lore wise. As it is, I kinda tend to make up my own in my head. I do actually have a whole story in mind for my army which I plan to bring together as part of an army display at some point. It's suitably emo as to be expected! :P 

I can't disagree that the army would make more sense thematically with a General mounted on a Phoenix and then a couple of unridden ones joining along, but the scrolls being the way they are (as you say, a very rare example) there is just no justification for leaving the Anointeds at home!

I look forward to seeing the progression of your army as well, it's very cool!

On 15/04/2018 at 11:31 PM, jamierk said:

Awesome work on the PT mate! I’ve got 70 PG almost fully painted now and 2 Phoenix plus an annointed on foot. I too would like to stick to PT only so I’m searching for the right balance of allies to make it happen. My main issue is the lack of rend and multidamage (those damn shields that add 1 to saves on damage 1 weapons like rats and skellies can really hold me up). I’m trying sisters of thorn plus loremaster for building a good rerollable save on frosty and using him as the hammer. I’m tempted to try some shooting support instead. Have you had many games?

Hey Jamie - painting 70 Phoenix Guard is quite the feat! I think I am likely to tap out at 50 tbh! My games have gone really well so far, but the lists I'm facing in the campaign aren't anything like regular builds, so I'm not getting over excited. I do think allies are really important for the army, but it's really hard to know what to add. It's quite limiting without being generic order.

Right, onto the update...

So the end of April means the end of the fourth month of our escalation Firestorm campaign, From Ember to Inferno. Armies are now up to 1,300 points and mine currently looks like this;

Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix - General, Reckless, Phoenix Stone
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix
Anointed
Loremaster

20 Phoenix Guard
10 Phoenix Guard
10 Phoenix Guard

I'm looking forward to this month's game(s) as the army now finally feels like an army. The previous rounds have gone really well for me as I'm undefeated and have amassed a great deal of glory (the win condition), as well as assembling the Sceptre. The way the campaign works there are a bunch of other bonuses my characters have, but I haven't noted them on my army list for now. I will take photos of the relevant cards and include them next time as whilst not painting and modelling related; it's kinda fun!

In terms of painting and modelling, here is what I have added for the fourth month - 20 Phoenix Guard and the first allied unit, a Loremaster (can finally start using Attuned to Magic reliably - all my opponents have been quite clever in mostly denying it thus far).
I have to admit, this month was a bit of a chore (might have something to do with God of War!) but I put in some epic hours over the weekend to finish up on time which I'm pretty proud of. Batch painting 21 models is a bit of a ball ache, but for me was the best way of getting through them and also ensures the same quality across the army etc.
Consistency and attention to detail is something really important to me and something I often find lacking across the board in other armies I look at, even those deemed to be high standard (usual examples include rank and file done to varying or lesser standards than characters etc.).

But yeh, I'm happy with my work this month. I may do some additional work on the Loremaster's fireball, but I think I like it as it is. The fire has become a nice spot colour across the army I feel and I may decide to add some braziers to the Phoenix bases etc, don't want to overuse it though. I was particularly happy with the assembly of the Phoenix Guard as I was able to introduce some new poses to these pretty static models by simply turning their heads etc. Works well I think.

Anyway, enough talk, here's some photos. I've also included a really horrible photo of the Anointed on foot (honestly not that bad irl!) as I have rebased him on a 25mm which looks much better. Finally, there is also an army shot included. Apologies for the yellowness of these photos.

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Looking forward to my month 5 additions; 4 models and only one of them is an Aelf!

Enjoy,
Chris

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  • Chris Tomlin changed the title to A Kingdom of Isolation (Phoenix Temple Blog) - 02/05 - Loremaster, more Phoenix Guard & army shot!

Nicely done. A really nice coherent look. It's still interesting how this army keeps there cold look even with the gold.

Did you use fire for the energy ball because of the fire on the banners?

On 2.5.2018 at 1:13 PM, Chris Tomlin said:

I look forward to seeing the progression of your army as well, it's very cool!

Sadly I didn't painted much during the last weeks. I have some WIP Blood Stalkers, Darkshards and a Bloodwrack Medusa, but nothing finished, yet.

I have some Aelf Faction build up and primed during last weeks mostly 1000 Point lists or something above.

  • 1000 Points Swifthawk Agents (Cavalry style, with Reavers, Charots and a High Warden)
  • 1000 Points Swifthawk Agents (Spireguard Style)
  • 1000 Points Eldritch Council (could be 1500-2000 Points if Sisters of the Watch weren't too expensive by about 20 Points per unit to ally them)
  • 1000 Points Scourge Privateers
  • 1000 Points Shadow Guild (not playable in Matched Play, Assassine, Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders)
  • 1000 Points Lion Rangers (not playable in Matched Play, Dragon Noble as Hero, White Lions, White Lion Chariots and Warlions (not having a warscroll) )

Perhaps I should pack everything into 1 project (don't actually know if I should merge it with my Frost Aelfs because they are aelfs or if they will be separate because the would be big enough with their nearly 6000 Points (as much as the 6 projects above together)

 

Edited by EMMachine
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Well hello there army shot, you're looking rather lovely.

That's a fantastic looking force so far mate, everything just works really well, from the simple headtweaks to the more involved conversions to the colour scheme itself. Bravo for sticking to your concept and guns and producing a very unique and lovely looking army. Can't wait to see more.

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On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:17 AM, syph0n said:

Great stuff! What's the next batch?

Cheers man! Month 5 is a little simpler;

  • Archmage
  • 3 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

Basically we decided that up to Month 4 (1,400pts) counted as 1,000pts for the purposes of army selection (2+ Battleline, 200pts of allies etc) and then Month 5 (1,700pts) could count as 2,000pts.

This will leave me with a 3rd Anointed on Frostheart and 10 more Phoenix Guard in the final month to round out the army. It clocks in at an awkward 1,940pts, but to be honest I'm not overly worried about it with the potential of points changes of the horizon. I can shore up a list after this time.

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 12:15 PM, EMMachine said:

Nicely done. A really nice coherent look. It's still interesting how this army keeps there cold look even with the gold.

Did you use fire for the energy ball because of the fire on the banners?

Sadly I didn't painted much during the last weeks. I have some WIP Blood Stalkers, Darkshards and a Bloodwrack Medusa, but nothing finished, yet.

I have some Aelf Faction build up and primed during last weeks mostly 1000 Point lists or something above.

  • 1000 Points Swifthawk Agents (Cavalry style, with Reavers, Charots and a High Warden)
  • 1000 Points Swifthawk Agents (Spireguard Style)
  • 1000 Points Eldritch Council (could be 1500-2000 Points if Sisters of the Watch weren't too expensive by about 20 Points per unit to ally them)
  • 1000 Points Scourge Privateers
  • 1000 Points Shadow Guild (not playable in Matched Play, Assassine, Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders)
  • 1000 Points Lion Rangers (not playable in Matched Play, Dragon Noble as Hero, White Lions, White Lion Chariots and Warlions (not having a warscroll) )

Perhaps I should pack everything into 1 project (don't actually know if I should merge it with my Frost Aelfs because they are aelfs or if they will be separate because the would be big enough with their nearly 6000 Points (as much as the 6 projects above together)

Hi, thanks! The cold palette is something that was definitely really important to me tbh, so I am glad I've achieved it.

Yeh I went with the fireball on the Loremaster as the natural fire has become a spot colour of sorts. I'm thinking of adding some flaming braziers to the Phoenix bases etc...but don't want to overdo the effect.

Looks like you have a lot of Aelves on your hands. Will you wait to see how the Warhammer Legends stuff shakes out? Perhaps you could do a project based on one of those lists instead?

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 2:16 PM, LLV said:

Lovely army Chris- proper Bo

Cheers man!

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, KnaveOfScribes said:

Well hello there army shot, you're looking rather lovely.

That's a fantastic looking force so far mate, everything just works really well, from the simple headtweaks to the more involved conversions to the colour scheme itself. Bravo for sticking to your concept and guns and producing a very unique and lovely looking army. Can't wait to see more.

Thanks very much, really appreciate your kind comments. Glad you like the army :)

Cheers for looking, liking, commenting etc guys!

Chris

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5 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Looks like you have a lot of Aelves on your hands. Will you wait to see how the Warhammer Legends stuff shakes out? Perhaps you could do a project based on one of those lists instead?

Yeah, combined with my Frost Aelf project I have 8 of 10 Factions that were part of either Highborn or Darkkin/Exiled Aelfs. Actually I don't want to go back to the "old" army design. I like the idea that we have some sort of subcultures now that don't have to be fix High Elves or Dark Elves

It's more a thing of creating thematic armies, building own cities. Simply having a little creative fun. So even if I would make a Frost Aelf Phoenix Temple they would be Frost Aelfs for me, not Highborn or Darkkin/Exiled. Using Legends would mean, writing stuff for the "world that was" instead for realms with nearly endless possibilities (and we have nearly the same problems with the Legends list like with the start of Age of Sigmar, having no points or fixpoint like Path to Glory, where we can say that unit "A" has equal value to unit "B").

Because of that, I started making a fanmade Battletome for Lion Rangers, to give them a little more (even perhaps somewhere in the future GW does or battletome or not)

If we get lucky, making such projects will help to get a real battletome with the choices we used in our projects, if not we have a Themed Army with style.

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@EMMachine - I like your attitude with regards to the Aelves within the Mortal Realms as opposed to harking on about The World The Was (as much as I absolutely loved the WFB Elven lore). As you suggest, there are endless possibilities and plenty of fun stuff you can do with the smaller factions. I'll take a look at your Battletome another time and let you know what I think.

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43 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

@EMMachine - I like your attitude with regards to the Aelves within the Mortal Realms as opposed to harking on about The World The Was (as much as I absolutely loved the WFB Elven lore)

It was a nicely done lore over all the years, just had the flaws that every Armybook was a nation and most spaces of the world was fleshed out, so it left very little room for creativity without causing problems with the official lore. Thats what I like about the AoS lore. I can enjoy the lore written by gw or other players and at the same time I can create my territories making my own faction without causing lore problems.

43 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

 I'll take a look at your Battletome another time and let you know what I think.

Take your time. It's more an Alpha without pictures. Only Warscrolls and Tables for Skirmish, Path to Glory, and Pitched Battle. At the moment the Warscrolls don't even have the AoS Design.

Feel free to write suggestions into the my other thread, but it don't has to be a high priority.

 

Edit: to say something about the Phoenix Temple it self. I would really see potential for such a faction, too.

  • Smaller Birds (like Aetherwing) with the fire or ice theme.
  • Archers with flaming or icy Bows and Arrows (like Sisters of the Watch)
  • Wizards casting fire or ice magic.
  • there could be literally bird cavalry (like Demigryth or Vanguard-Palladors)
  • Or some entirely different form of Phoenix (after we have 2 variants)

One thing thats not entirely fleshed out is the part that they have taken a vow of silence. It should be a little complicated if no one can give orders because no one speaks.

In the end the Phoenix Temple is some form of religion (or cult, after everyone literally dies and is reborn with phoenix essence).

The main problem is, that without a Battletome we are forced to use a the units that are connected to the faction by keyword and restricted by allies.

Edited by EMMachine
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@EMMachine - I like your ideas for other Phoenix Temple units. I will definitely be painting up some Aetherwings to go with the army just from an aesthetic point of view. I will be taking the army to #RAW18 if I get a ticket and am planning to convert my Aetherlab (a special model needed for the event) out of a Skycutter.

In terms of another Phoenix....how about a lightning version? We've already got Moltres and Articuno, so why not add Zapdos! xD

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12 hours ago, EMMachine said:

One thing thats not entirely fleshed out is the part that they have taken a vow of silence. It should be a little complicated if no one can give orders because no one speaks.

I had thought about this before when I tried to think about how the Phoenix Temple could fit into the mortal realms. 

I came up with the "Reforged" (or something similar). A Reforged is made when a Phoenix is mortally wounded in battle and is too weak to be reborn normally. A high ranking phoenix temple aelf (most of the time someone close to said phoenix) then takes in the essence of the phoenix and both become something new. The might of a phoenix in the form of an aelf. And since these two beings form something completely new they are no longer bound by the vow of silence. 
(My thought behind this were to incorporate the rebirth motif and the religious aspect of their phoenix worship as the aelf sacrifice himself for the phoenix)

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I think something could be made out of the Pheonix Temple's apparent allegiance with Wanderers. Perhaps a reborn Caradryan could have formed an allegiance with Araloth (didn't he get spirited away in the end times?) and set up a new Temple somewhere? Whether or not this is the way that things go, i'm going to start adding wanderer units to my PT with this as it's theme. I don't want to end up with a soup type order army but I think PT and Wanderers have some nice synergy both in terms of rules and aesthetics.

Keep up the Pheonix Temple rage guys, all that is needed for evil to succeed (Phoenix Guard to be discontinued) is for good people to do nothing (people to not play them!).

Cheers

Jamie

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:26 PM, Josh said:

looks great! 

when in doubt go pokemon haha!

Cheers man!

Haha yeah certainly works in this example.

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:44 AM, jamierk said:

I think something could be made out of the Pheonix Temple's apparent allegiance with Wanderers. Perhaps a reborn Caradryan could have formed an allegiance with Araloth (didn't he get spirited away in the end times?) and set up a new Temple somewhere? Whether or not this is the way that things go, i'm going to start adding wanderer units to my PT with this as it's theme. I don't want to end up with a soup type order army but I think PT and Wanderers have some nice synergy both in terms of rules and aesthetics.

Keep up the Pheonix Temple rage guys, all that is needed for evil to succeed (Phoenix Guard to be discontinued) is for good people to do nothing (people to not play them!).

Cheers

Jamie

This is interesting. I'd never really considered Wanderers (tbh off the top of my head I wouldn't have even said they were one of the ally options for Phoenix Temple!). Some of the range could definitely fit in aesthetically and I love the thinking before Araloth fluffwise. I really hope we'll find out what happened with that bro at some point, his little arc seemed so crucial at the end of End Times: Khaine.

I'm definitely thankful for Phoenix Temple getting mentioned with the Firestorm campaign. It at least validates them as being a faction that exists within the Mortal Realms.

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:57 AM, jamierk said:

Just to add to the potential to consider for a PT battletome, how about a different points cost for an unridden Phoenix?

Personally I think this is a must. The bonus granted by the Anointed is huge and it makes zero sense for them to be pointed the same.

I'm actually considering having the 3rd Phoenix in this army to be unridden anyway. Allows me to do something different with the pose.

Cheers guys,
Chris

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On 5/14/2018 at 1:44 AM, jamierk said:

Perhaps a reborn Caradryan could have formed an allegiance with Araloth (didn't he get spirited away in the end times?) and set up a new Temple somewhere?

I would actually more like it Caradryan would be a Phoenix Godbeast all Phoenix Temple bound with (like I made Korhil a Lion Godbeast in a Background Description).

On 5/14/2018 at 1:57 AM, jamierk said:

Just to add to the potential to consider for a PT battletome, how about a different points cost for an unridden Phoenix?

This has to be the solution at some point, but I don't know if the unmounted Phoenix has to be cheaper or the mounted one more expensive.

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20 hours ago, Josh said:

have you played any games with them? Im curious as to how you find them 

Yeh I've played four games of escalating sizes so far. Hard to take too much from these smaller games and also the fact the other three armies in the campaign are all reasonably soft. I have won them all and they have  been pretty fun. Currently have considerably more Glory (the Firestorm win condition) than the others. Will be interesting to see how I find the army in bigger games though.

At the current 1,300pt level we are planning a full days gaming with a round robin on Sunday. My army has all but doubled in size 23>44 and I've added a magic phase this month, so I expect it to do pretty well.

19 hours ago, EMMachine said:

I don't know if the unmounted Phoenix has to be cheaper or the mounted one more expensive.

Mounted one needs to be more expensive. Definitely underpointed at present. You can tell this by the way they are appearing in a bunch of mixed Order armies at present. Jack Armstrong even had one in his Vanguard Wing army that won SCGT.

As for my month five additions, the models are assembled and sprayed; I will start the painting next week and expect it to be a fairly smooth road to completion with just four models (Archmage & 3 Raptors).

Cheers,
Chris

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  • Chris Tomlin changed the title to A Kingdom of Isolation (Phoenix Temple Blog) - 05/05 - Archmage & Raptor allies!

Morning all,

Time to post up my month 5 photos. Some of you will have already seen these on Twitter (@the_black_sun) or on the TGA Gallery (previews on main forum page), but obviously it's important to include them here and it also allows me to put down some thoughts etc.

So this month was by far the easiest in terms of quantity. I was adding some more allies to my army in the form of an Eldritch Council Archmage and 3 Stormcast Eternals Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows. This takes the army up to 1,600pts in what will soon become "old money". I'm not really sure how the new edition is going to impact this army, but we'll roll with the punches and see how things shake out. It may well give me the opportunity to add some Endless Spells and other allies - I have to say I am already eying up some of those new Sacrosanct Chamber Stormcast as I think they'd look great in my scheme...and also I have a thing for big crossbows!!

My thinking around this month's additions were pretty straight forward; the Archmage is an obvious choice for the Phoenix Temple and needs no explanation. I also had a couple of those Mage kits knocking around and wanted to get some use out of them. The model is pretty cool but being a bit old does lack some definition. The details on the face are quite soft, but I was pleased with how it came out. His eyes look really nice, which doesn't show in the photo. The sword isn't great and tbh in hindsight I should've picked a different army. As the left arm, I was keen to include some more fire in the army as I think this works really nicely as a spot colour. Oddly, when looking online I couldn't find many examples of this arm being used at all. I wasn't sure which parts were meant to be fire, but eventually opted for an entire ring of it (I'm sure there's a song about that ;)). Anyway, as per usual, my photos are poor and the rear shot looks especially ropey, but enjoy nonetheless;

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Next up are the Vanguard Raptors. These aren't quite an obvious addition as they are hardly a powerful inclusion. However, I thought it would be nice to use my ally points to bring some shooting into the army as well as magic (the two things Phoenix Temple doesn't do). With that in mind, these start to seem like a more sensible choice, especially with the bird motifs on their helms and champions shoulder pad etc. Really fits in with the Phoenix theme, not to mention the Aetherwings. I think a lot of people will assume that I'm considering these as baby Phoenixes, however this is not the case. They are just Aetherwings as far as I'm concerned. By my Old World understanding, Frostheart Phoenixes are incredibly old Flamespyre Phoenixes that have eventually burnt out and gone cold (I absolutely love that concept btw). But yeh, they are little birds painted in the same scheme that look cool, so again, it works (I think). So far just the one Aethering on the Champions arm as I've now run out of ally points for the 3 extra Aetherwings. This is pretty annoying as my planned army total is 1,940pts, so I can still afford them! Anyway, lets take a look at the Stormcast;

55B1170F-6C83-4504-B380-A46203D4A1B7.jpeg.06553f3eb9b55a6dc96bd48da8978c5f.jpeg

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So that's it for the month. Before I check out I did just want to touch on something else; the experience and process of adding totally different models to the army in the same colour scheme. This, to me at least, is pretty interesting as instead of spending forever deciding on the colour scheme and how I'd paint these things (also applies to last month's Loremaster), I instead was totally uncompromising in just porting the Phoenix Guard colour scheme onto these new models. By that I mean that I didn't actually make a single decision regarding how I'd paint the allies, everything was laid out for me. Outer cloth would be in the blue, inner cloth in the light grey, weapon hafts in the brown etc etc. It sounds fairly obvious, but this isn't something that I, or others, always do. There are certainly elements where I felt like maybe I should've gone against it and not been so rigid (the Raptor champion's glove, the inner collar on the Archmage's cloak etc) as I was worried there would be clashes. But I stuck to the plan, which was basically to keen the minimalist pallet and have the army look as unified as possible. I think and hope this was successful, and I took this little photo of a few of the different models together to see how they looked;

FF1284C2-6008-4429-9339-3E43291FA0A0.jpeg.f1cf9ccbb1ed47a801f6dcb406ffeffe.jpeg

I'm pretty happy with that to be honest. Someone on Twitter commented that it's almost akin to Chris Peach's mixed Order army that has a variety of races (and loads of fantastic kitbashes it has to be said) but still looks like a unified army. I have to say, that was the first AoS army I saw that made me think that sort of thing was possible without just look like a rabble. Gives me the confidence to consider adding other things, such as Demigryph Knights, without feeling the need to convert them with Aelvish riders etc. But that’s something for another day...

So that's it for now. I'll come back later on and talk about my plans for month six, which is now underway, as well as what I'm thinking for RAW18 (which I'm taking this army to).

Cheers for reading,
Chris 

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It's coming out really well Chris. I've had that too with Allies - you think you've nailed a thematic, cool or strong list using some allies, to discover it's 20 points over the limit or so on! 

I think Aelves (High Aelves particularly) lend themselves well to be allied to the Stormcast. I think some of the mixed armies can look disjointed, even official ones like the Anvilgard. You've nailed it though.

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5 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Thanks man. I will go through all my Twitter notifications on lunch today and reply individually as well :) 

I retweeted it with a comment (even I only have 6 followers). You should find my profile in the list of your followers (if you don't find the notification).

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