hobgoblinclub Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 With a new 'Horde Meta' seemingly on the horizon (for a while at least) how is everyone planning to cope with massive regiments? It's the topic of the newest episode of the Tales of Sigmar podcast. Please, give that a listen and then post your thoughts (on massive regiments, rather than on me, as it's also my debut as co-host!). What do you think of the options we've come up with? Do you have more / better ways to get rid of those extra bodies? Tales of Sigmar Episode 21, Horde Meta: http://www.talesofsigmar.co.uk/2017/09/episode-21-horde-meta.html?m=1 For all future episodes, I'll be posting a topic thread like this one. Each time we record, we'll revisit the previous topic and give a shout out to the best/most interesting suggestions. Thanks in advance! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 1. I think there is a podcast section? 2. I listened last night in the car and thought it was a very good episode! I subscribed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Also thought it was good. Another solution for death might not be removing hordes but summoning to tie them up. Summoned units of skeletons, dire wolves, zombies etc can provide an effective way of tying up or road blocking hordes. Another thing is removing the hordes buffs, so morghast harbingers into bloodsecrators early means the hordes aren't quite so strong. However this does rely on an opponent with limited move or who makes a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I don't think the horde meta is going to be a problem as long as Aetherstrike is still the best list in the game. I have seen Seraphon and Sylvaneth rise from "mid tier" to "high tier" but it wasn't because of the massive regiments - rather it was because of the new allegiance abilities and changes to drycha, respectively. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think GW needs to remove Aetherstrike from matched play. It is oppressively powerful and will warp the meta because melee armies can't do anything against it and Stormcast have the best anti-shooting tools at their disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Rhellion said: 1. I think there is a podcast section? 2. I listened last night in the car and thought it was a very good episode! I subscribed. I'll shift the thread across. It's good to have you on board @Rhellion. Glad you enjoyed it! 3 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said: Also thought it was good. Another solution for death might not be removing hordes but summoning to tie them up. Summoned units of skeletons, dire wolves, zombies etc can provide an effective way of tying up or road blocking hordes. Another thing is removing the hordes buffs, so morghast harbingers into bloodsecrators early means the hordes aren't quite so strong. However this does rely on an opponent with limited move or who makes a mistake. I think tying them up with chaff is definitely a good way to play. An opponent who only controls large units is going to struggle to get them out of the way of the little units of chaff. The issue you have with summoning is getting them close enough to tag the opponent's units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 40 minutes ago, PJetski said: I don't think the horde meta is going to be a problem as long as Aetherstrike is still the best list in the game. I have seen Seraphon and Sylvaneth rise from "mid tier" to "high tier" but it wasn't because of the massive regiments - rather it was because of the new allegiance abilities and changes to drycha, respectively. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think GW needs to remove Aetherstrike from matched play. It is oppressively powerful and will warp the meta because melee armies can't do anything against it and Stormcast have the best anti-shooting tools at their disposal. Which game is Aetherstrike the best list in? Cause it sure as heck ain't Age of Sigmar. In fact, Aetherstrike has NEVER been the best list in the game, even before it took a 100pt nerf bat. If you're struggling against it it's a problem with your army, not aetherstrike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerlin Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Complaining about aetherstrike makes me think this person missed every previous form of deepstriking in the last year. Sylvaneth, Stormcast, Skryre all can do similar things before Kharadron....now even more factions can...hell Dispossessed can 30 units of hammerer deep strike you, that stings. Back on topic, the way to deal with hordes is twofold for me; High damage normal attacks and attacking blocks from two sides. For example, I think units like gutbuster ogres, troggoths, and varghiests will all do better. High attack and damage units to kill 10+ models a turn and force a route test. This can also make cheap lance cav relevent again, say Saurus knights or black knights. Sticking the charge on two sides of a big block will split attacks and do a lot of burst to force the morale tests. Even skeletons will run when 10 or more die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I have been playing a Horde of Bloodbound Bloodreavers and Chaos Warriors from the beginning! I have been playing a Greenskin Horde in Warhammer Fantasy since 5th edition! Ah you think hordes are your ally? You merely adopted the numbers. I was born in them, molded by them. I didn't see the competitive meta until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Cerlin said: Complaining about aetherstrike makes me think this person missed every previous form of deepstriking in the last year. Sylvaneth, Stormcast, Skryre all can do similar things before Kharadron....now even more factions can...hell Dispossessed can 30 units of hammerer deep strike you, that stings. If you're not running gryph hounds, protectors, and lantern of the tempest with aetherstrike then you deserve to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerlin Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, PJetski said: If you're not running gryph hounds, protectors, and lantern of the tempest with aetherstrike then you deserve to lose You said that, not me. Learn how to zone out deep strikers with cheap chaff or tanky units. Kharadon rarely survive the countercharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 One might call it Hordes, as a old WFB player I still see this pretty much as the Deathstar meta. It's a bit early to tell but I am very certain that the meta will indeed catch onto buffing a huge blocks to make it a juggernaut that doesn't stop rolling untill it's found an equal. However this indeed can also be used into your favour. Like before, I see 3 things being of key importance to either use it to your advantage or make it a disadvantage for your opponent. It's basically the options you have against them and how to manage their effect on the table. 1. Small unit screening is indeed very effective to keep a Deathstar busy, it's one of the things Death can now really do easily and it makes them quite unique. Another side effect of Deathstars is also that it's usually very hard to have such a mass and protect Heroes well (in AoS). So one can also really use this aspect to his advantage to Hero hunt with small based or large based flyers and the like. 2. Buffing and debuffing is essential to do on these Deathstars. Being able to 'direct'/'control' these Deathstars is very important also. So when you consider spells consider things like the whole unit attacking itself or moving towards the closest enemy unit (for them). It can make or break their effectiveness and again can really keep them bussy. 3. Bringing your own Deathstars is a really good idea because all have acces to them. Lastly and this is another very important thing I feel is that Monster Generals are now typically better for several 'template' reasons but also because of them often liking to fight big targets so their effort is not wasted on cheap stuff that essentially screens it like point 1. Enjoy! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I don't think it going to be a universal thing. It'll make taking large Infantry units viable but not vital. Which I think should be the objective. They're never going to be the most effective use of resources simply because it's very very unlikely that one will be able to maximise their offensive abilities so you're going to look at them as just extra wounds and a little extra bravery. Also in most scenarios one big unit isn't as tactically useful as a Humber of smaller ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wilson Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 5 hours ago, PJetski said: I don't think the horde meta is going to be a problem as long as Aetherstrike is still the best list in the game. I have seen Seraphon and Sylvaneth rise from "mid tier" to "high tier" but it wasn't because of the massive regiments - rather it was because of the new allegiance abilities and changes to drycha, respectively. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think GW needs to remove Aetherstrike from matched play. It is oppressively powerful and will warp the meta because melee armies can't do anything against it and Stormcast have the best anti-shooting tools at their disposal. Aetherstrike has many hard counters, including a number of hordes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReynakZhen Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 A unit of 4 fulminators is how I deal with horde units, earlier today i annihilated a 40 strong unit of KO foot troops with 4 fulminators with a knight vexillor allowing them the reroll on the charge. It was GLORIOUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSDdeloach Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 21 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said: With a new 'Horde Meta' seemingly on the horizon (for a while at least) how is everyone planning to cope with massive regiments? It's the topic of the newest episode of the Tales of Sigmar podcast. Please, give that a listen and then post your thoughts (on massive regiments, rather than on me, as it's also my debut as co-host!). What do you think of the options we've come up with? Do you have more / better ways to get rid of those extra bodies? Tales of Sigmar Episode 21, Horde Meta: http://www.talesofsigmar.co.uk/2017/09/episode-21-horde-meta.html?m=1 For all future episodes, I'll be posting a topic thread like this one. Each time we record, we'll revisit the previous topic and give a shout out to the best/most interesting suggestions. Thanks in advance! Steve. Awesome my dude! Congrats on becoming a co-host! I still can't forgive you for those Nurgle dice.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderingrogue Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 17 hours ago, PJetski said: I don't think the horde meta is going to be a problem as long as Aetherstrike is still the best list in the game. I have seen Seraphon and Sylvaneth rise from "mid tier" to "high tier" but it wasn't because of the massive regiments - rather it was because of the new allegiance abilities and changes to drycha, respectively. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think GW needs to remove Aetherstrike from matched play. It is oppressively powerful and will warp the meta because melee armies can't do anything against it and Stormcast have the best anti-shooting tools at their disposal. is etherstrike the best list in the game? has it EVER been the best list in the game? i mean its good. but im not building any of my lists to counter it specifically. Im more worried bout the murder hosts, clown cars and tzeentch builds myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderingrogue Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Cerlin said: Complaining about aetherstrike makes me think this person missed every previous form of deepstriking in the last year. Sylvaneth, Stormcast, Skryre all can do similar things before Kharadron....now even more factions can...hell Dispossessed can 30 units of hammerer deep strike you, that stings. Back on topic, the way to deal with hordes is twofold for me; High damage normal attacks and attacking blocks from two sides. For example, I think units like gutbuster ogres, troggoths, and varghiests will all do better. High attack and damage units to kill 10+ models a turn and force a route test. This can also make cheap lance cav relevent again, say Saurus knights or black knights. Sticking the charge on two sides of a big block will split attacks and do a lot of burst to force the morale tests. Even skeletons will run when 10 or more die. also. as a KO player - in the last 2 tournaments (2nd at heat 3 and 4th at BOBO) i deep struck my Ko precisely zero times. ko on table, going 1st with a 2 drop. have the numbers to pew pew hordes just fine with thier pure raw stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, WSDdeloach said: Awesome my dude! Congrats on becoming a co-host! I still can't forgive you for those Nurgle dice.. ? Thanks muchly! It was an impulse buy. I'm truly sorry. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamierk Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I don't have an answer to this question, but have people started seeing 120+ skinks in pretty much any order army yet? My concern about this edition is how many tournaments will be now filled with skinks. How on earth are they that cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, jamierk said: I don't have an answer to this question, but have people started seeing 120+ skinks in pretty much any order army yet? My concern about this edition is how many tournaments will be now filled with skinks. How on earth are they that cheap? I'm working on building some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rhellion said: I'm working on building some. Love it skinks for days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I can only respect those who go the full mile and play, make and paint 80+ Skinks, I think it's awesome to see that Order has such a Horde army option aswell. They are not a bad choice either. Though I think it's too early to say every Order army should go this route and Skinks being the new king in town. They are finally good, to me this is awesome. That said maby they could be a bit more expensive but that applies to so much more units. Bloodletters allready where incredible at 30 for 300 now that's 30 points less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Rhellion said: I'm working on building some. Are you planning on running the Shadowstrike Starhost? That thing is gonna be gonna be great at combating Murderhost, especially in the Scorched Earth battleplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said: That thing is gonna be gonna be great at combating Murderhost, especially in the Scorched Earth battleplan. For sure! The prime weakness of Daemons remains rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Killax said: For sure! The prime weakness of Daemons remains rocks. Ha! I was thinking more about being able to push up and prevent your objectives getting snagged turn one. That works too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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