GH2017 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[PlasticCraic]

8 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Why are people using the Orruk Warboss on Wyvern? 

Mainly for Duality I'm guessing.  He's the second cheapest Behemoth in the GA, and significantly more durable than the cheapest. 

[broche]

18 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Mainly for Duality I'm guessing.  He's the second cheapest Behemoth in the GA, and significantly more durable than the cheapest. 

I would add: Mobility, good target for arcance shield, and boost Morboys if he die (small benefit since Morboys are not awesome, but better than nothing!)

 

[meet.the.doctor]

On 3/1/2018 at 2:25 PM, Kanamorf said:

My favorite kit bash is actually made from a stick from the garden with two of the larger spear blades wedged in the end. Then I used some thin string to make it look like it was correctly held in place. It works really well.

 

If you want to go more radical I saw someone using a whole totem the other day as the stabba. I am sure the picture was on a blog on this site.

 If you mean this - it was just built for the picture

 

On 3/1/2018 at 2:37 PM, Malakithe said:

Why are people using the Orruk Warboss on Wyvern? 

As PlasticCraic mentioned mainly for Duality, and durability. You cannot have another ally that can:

- fly

- re-roll saves

- save on 3+ (with mystic shield), or maybe the Hag..

- potential mortal wound in the army that lacks it

you can slso cast Kunnin Beast Spirit on an ally outside of Bonies. It also improves durability.

The Wyvern has 4 purposes:

- distraction

- potential threat to snipers

- getting to objectives fast

- die to boost the morboys in the end

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, meet.the.doctor said:

you can slso cast Kunnin Beast Spirit on an ally outside of Bonies. It also improves durability

Whoa whoa...i didnt know they had spells that were not specific

[meet.the.doctor]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Whoa whoa...i didnt know they had spells that were not specific

Yes, this one doesn’t use Bonesplitterz keyword. Makes an opponent re-roll 6s for hit against chosen target. I have never used it until including allies.

[Kanamorf]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:15 AM, meet.the.doctor said:

 If you mean this - it was just built for the picture

 

I love this model. I would steal the idea if I had the time to do it justice

[broche]

I was thinking of a build to compete agains the new (insane) Daughter of Khaine. 

I think a one drop Icebone Warclan could do the trick (and still viable agains other army)

1 x Weirnob

1 x Weirnob

1 x Savage big boss

1 x wurgog prophet

20 x Maniak

5 x Maniak

5 x Maniak

5 x Maniak

Snagga ruk

icebone warclan

Strategy is quite simple, you Hand of gork and brutal beast spirit the 20 x maniak unit, you move 22 and charge (+4 rerollable) his front line with double pile in (roughly110 damages if you manage to attack with all your model twice). Since your unit Fly it's pretty hard to set up a screen strategy. He could start in his back row to deny the charge and set up his buff, but then you could grab objective with your small unit and take a lead on point.

[Coganaut]

Hey guys, out of curiosity is there any formations I should look into using in a competitive setting? 

 

Also what's the best hero load outs? I personally feel that a prophet and 2 wardoks seems like the best way to go. Possibly a weirdnob?

[svnvaldez]

I think your handicapping yourself if your 2k bonesplitterz army  doesn't have 3 casters and a big boss with 30x 2 arrowboyz in a kunning rukk.

[bonzai]

On 3/18/2018 at 12:22 PM, Coganaut said:

Hey guys, out of curiosity is there any formations I should look into using in a competitive setting? 

 

Also what's the best hero load outs? I personally feel that a prophet and 2 wardoks seems like the best way to go. Possibly a weirdnob?

Kunning Rukk is the go to competative formation. Nothing else comes close to it. 

Kopp Rukks are strong, but the 200 point tax for taking it is a hard thing to swallow. But a 2+ to casting rolls and moreboys wounding on 2/3+ is great. 

Snagga Rukk can be nice. Basically reroll failed charges and 50% chance to deal a mortal wound.

Teef Rukk is situational, and probaby better off saving the points unless you are list tailoring.

Brutal Rukks do give extra speed, but I really wish that there was a mount option for the big boss. 

Usually you are only going to be able to afford one formation in a typical list. The Warclan formations are really expensive, but do provide some nice benefits. For example the Drakkfoot warclan is going to run you 360 points (including the cost of the required Kopp Rukk battalion). You get a one drop army, an extra artifact, a nifty spell, bonuses to casting, and magic defense, but in exchange you are playing at significant points deficit. Its up to you if the advantages exceed the drawbacks.

 

[Skabnoze]

I have not yet taken my old savage orcs out for a spin in this edition.  I have some unassembled units and I have been trying to decide how to build them.  I have some Arrer boyz already, and I know they are good with the Kunning Rukk, but I would like a few units of melee boyz.  I don't need the most uber-competitive thing, but I don't want absolute junk either.  I was thinking of arming some standard boyz mobs with spears - are they a good weapon choice now?  I prefer the visuals of spears with shields than choppa + shield.  I have some dual choppas already from 8th edition when the go-to was savage orc big 'uns with double weapons.

I am curious how people have found the standard Savage Orc boys to work out and what weapon choices are useful. 

[meet.the.doctor]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

I have not yet taken my old savage orcs out for a spin in this edition.  I have some unassembled units and I have been trying to decide how to build them.  I have some Arrer boyz already, and I know they are good with the Kunning Rukk, but I would like a few units of melee boyz.  I don't need the most uber-competitive thing, but I don't want absolute junk either.  I was thinking of arming some standard boyz mobs with spears - are they a good weapon choice now?  I prefer the visuals of spears with shields than choppa + shield.  I have some dual choppas already from 8th edition when the go-to was savage orc big 'uns with double weapons.

I am curious how people have found the standard Savage Orc boys to work out and what weapon choices are useful. 

From my experience regular chompa (stone choppas became chompas now) or spear with shield doesn't give you any benefit. The saves in combat phase pay little role if you have it 5+ and most armies have rends. Solid 6+ in Bonesplitterz allegiance is enough anyway, so changing the shield for anoteher meleee attack is a huge benefit. Besides the shield works only in combat phase and most of the armies have range threat.

So if you want melee - choose Morboyz - dual chompa boyz (in plastic version second chompa became shiv). And if you are plastic start from Big Stabbas. They are cheap. They are tough. They are our best unit.  Great fun to play them. 4 or 6 is a must! And they look cool in units!

[Skabnoze]

I have plenty of Big Stabbas - that is not an issue.

I was thinking of making some standard Savage Orcs rather than Morboyz because if I was playing a Kunning Rukk then they fit into that and can take advantage of the formation bonus as the situation warranted.  If I recall correctly, they are also slightly cheaper.  

I did not expect the shield to be of any use really so I am less worried about that.  I am more interested if anyone has experience using the spears vs chompas.  It seems to me that the reroll wounds for big units would make increased attacks from spears a bit more useful than the increased to-wound roll.  But, with orcs now being on 32mm bases I don't have enough experience to say how many more you can squeeze into combat with spears.

[Solaris]

It'll be a significant enough amount that you'd want spears on large units (30) and chompas on small units (10). They are the same price as Morboys, but are useful because they can be included in battalions like the Kunnin Rukk. If I were you, I'd try to make sure to built everything in groups of 10, since that's how we buy them (except for Stabbas which are bought in groups of 2).

[broche]

17 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I was thinking of making some standard Savage Orcs rather than Morboyz because if I was playing a Kunning Rukk then they fit into that and can take advantage of the formation bonus as the situation warranted.  If I recall correctly, they are also slightly cheaper.  

I did not expect the shield to be of any use really so I am less worried about that.  I am more interested if anyone has experience using the spears vs chompas.  It seems to me that the reroll wounds for big units would make increased attacks from spears a bit more useful than the increased to-wound roll.  But, with orcs now being on 32mm bases I don't have enough experience to say how many more you can squeeze into combat with spears.

In group of 10, Morboyz are strickly superior to savage orruk (-1 save in combat, but more double damage output,  +1 bravery and a special power agains monster)

If you want to use infantry in a kunnin ruk, then 30 spearman is not a bad choice, but they are a bit meh (bad scaling bonus so not so great damage output), but there is almost no point to not invest 60 more point for 30  arrowboys (30 spearman that attack is is 11.25 damage per turn, but at 29 you fall to less than 8.5, so no real damage gain over arrowboys, and you lose range and choice of target unfortunatly...

[Skabnoze]

Thanks for the replies.  As I said at the start, I am not looking for the most totally competitive option.  A lot of what I do is because I like how the models look for stuff.  I have had an all Night Goblins army since 5th edition Fantasy that I loved to play - so it is not like I am always looking to win.  I think the Savage Orc models with spears looks neat, and while I like Arrer boyz, I don't really want a whole army of them. 

I also already have a bunch of Morboyz and was going to build up more of them for maybe playing a Kopp Rukk sometime.  But I am also interested in adding some units of regular savage orcs and I was simply curious if spears are useful enough to include - since visually I think I prefer them on shield-armed orcs (more of a Zulu sort of look).

I always collect armies that are way bigger than what I would normally field in a game, and I don't mind having units that I only play on occasion (I own over 25 fanatics and 18 Trolls...).  Towards the end of 8th edition I had started collecting a Savage Orc army and now that I got over my distaste for how GW handled the transition from WFB to AoS I decided to dig out the Savage Orcs as the first of my old forces to convert over for use (although if I don't move fast my Night Goblins will probably grab my attention again).

Thanks for answering my questions!

[svnvaldez]

All my boyz have spears. Because they are on 32mms (greater than 1inch) the 2inch reach is nice. If I am going to run a unit with 1inch reach, they will be morboyz to get the extra attacks per model.

[meet.the.doctor]

I totally understand the love for NGs. As you can see in my Avatar it is my main army, but It has to wait in line for propper battletome.

if you plan on playing the you can always make the second unit another Arrow Boyz (eg.10) and a separate unit of 30 Morboyz. 

This is a ranged weapons game now...

[Skabnoze]

So, looking at Idoneth Deepkin - what are people's thoughts about how that would effect Bonesplitterz competitive lists?  They have a lot of synergy that works heavily against shooting.  Cover auras are common along with stackable -1 to hit debuffs.  And then one of the basic allegiance abilities means that you can only target the closest model.  They also have some healing magic.  They could do something like use an arcane-shielded Leviadon as a spearhead (closest target so you have to shoot it) along with some -1 to hit buffs and then they could heal some of the shooting wounds that make it through.

[svnvaldez]

I think we will just see more of the same from Bonesplitterz and we will just keep shooting with arrowboyz.  4 of the 6 missions in GH2 are most models within x inches... are real power comes from flooding the board with a ton of models that ignore the range profiles of our weapons. Orruks are on 32mm bases, which is greater than an inch, so all other foot orruks arn't any good with there 1 or 2 inch single attack profile. Arrowboyz can shoot with the whole unit.

Big Stabbas are super slow and fragile and while Savage Boarboy Maniaks are  battleline and not awful your paying 160 for 5 models rather than 120 for 10 which hurts on the 4 of 6 most models within x inches objective missions. 

Imo the Bonesplitterz  book isnt internally balanced so it really doesn't matter what other armies out there are doing. Just play to our comparative advantage, 1 drop, hordes of archers, and just hope for a good draw while playing for objectives.

[svnvaldez]

@PlasticCraic wrote this in another thread and I think it sums up the state of Bonesplitterz well.

On 4/12/2018 at 4:11 PM, PlasticCraic said:

GH18 is still a way off but who knows what that could bring...I was sure that GH17 would rebalance the army away from Arrow Boy spam and more towards melee 'n' magic with some shooting support.  Instead they went for an "across the board" points increase which meant Kunnin Rukk was still the most efficient choice by some distance.  And because the less optimal choices were still too pricey / even moreso, and Arrow Boys became Battleline, other builds got squeezed out even more than before if anything.

My speculation is that they will correct this in GH18, but I have been wrong about that before!  

[broche]

My fried is buying Deepkin so we're a bit theory crafting. They seem really good (High mobility, flying units, resistant, access to damage spike, some mortal). However it doesn't seem they can effectifly be both resistant and strike hard. Some built are low model count, so my guess is that they might have hard time killing two or three 60 wound regiment. 

There ability is nice, but i don't think it hurt arrowboys that much (low reach) because you will just grind whatever model he show you, so you can win the attrition war.

Also i don't think they have efficient shooting, so you can protect your character meaning you have good chance of making the big boss stick.

I think there a built with big regiment of Thrall that can bring back dead model, that might be worse for kunning ruk, but i dunno for sure. I'll try to have a game soon with my bud so i can get a better idea

 

[broche]

9 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

@PlasticCraic wrote this in another thread and I think it sums up the state of Bonesplitterz well.

I suspect a point decrease for character and hopefully they will reprice the bataillion accordingly to their effective strength. Maybe increase max regiment size for spearman to 40?

[Skabnoze]

40 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

I think we will just see more of the same from Bonesplitterz and we will just keep shooting with arrowboyz.  4 of the 6 missions in GH2 are most models within x inches... are real power comes from flooding the board with a ton of models that ignore the range profiles of our weapons. Orruks are on 32mm bases, which is greater than an inch, so all other foot orruks arn't any good with there 1 or 2 inch single attack profile. Arrowboyz can shoot with the whole unit.

Big Stabbas are super slow and fragile and while Savage Boarboy Maniaks are  battleline and not awful your paying 160 for 5 models rather than 120 for 10 which hurts on the 4 of 6 most models within x inches objective missions. 

Imo the Bonesplitterz  book isnt internally balanced so it really doesn't matter what other armies out there are doing. Just play to our comparative advantage, 1 drop, hordes of archers, and just hope for a good draw while playing for objectives.

The internal balance issue with the Bonesplitterz seems to really be mainly just the prices.  The only thing that really stands out to me as a poor design in regards to the unit scrolls is that they gave Savage Orc Arrow boyz 2 shots base with an extra for having a big unit.  That seems really out of place in an army that should primarily be mainly about running up in a frenzy and beating stuff with rocks and sticks.

Aggressive price adjustments in GHB 2018 could easily swing this army back towards running up and bashing things.

 

[svnvaldez]

21 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That seems really out of place in an army that should primarily be mainly about running up in a frenzy and beating stuff with rocks and sticks.

You don't know how much salt I get for using range with O&G... I got the same salt back in 8th ed when I used doom divers, rock lobbas, and spear chuckas. This has led to countless negative comp. and sports votes so the following will be tongue and cheek as I educate you on why ranged is completely with in the fluff!

These warriors are divided into two main groups, one focused on close combat, known as the Brutal Rukks, and one with large numbers of bow-wielding lads, known as the Kunnin’ Rukks. Just like Gork and Mork, these two halves work together to create havoc in battle, one repeatedly smashing the enemy in the face while the other fills them full of arrows or bashes them from behind. (pg. 22 Bonesplitterz  battletome)

Just because I am more cunning but still brutal,  rather than being more brutal but still cunning, I am no less of a follower of Gorkamorka than any one else.