GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Malakree]

@SirPug so having played my first major tourney this weekend the big thing is found, as other better players did years ago, is that the unit of 5 brutes just doesn't compete with the unit of 10. It's night and day, not least is that the unit of 10 impacted with a monster/hero and ate it. The unit of 5 bounced off occasionally and only made their points once. Not least that it doubles the worth of the warchanters buff.

You're also going to find you are slow as hell. I'd recommend dropping at least 1 of the 5s for a second unit of goregruntas. There were several times I would have murdered for an extra cav unit and even at 4 (I didn't finish 2 of them in time) they pulled their weight.

The footboss is worthless, he's way to slow and doesn't actually do anything. He's good at lower points values but for 2k he is bad. The main reason to take him is rerolling 1s on brutes which should be irrelevant if you target them properly.

You need a cabbage, its so important in so many ways. The two footboss are 280 together meaning you are only 160 points shy of replacing them both with a cabbage.

A second chanter is amazing, I was running 5 IJ heroes, and a grot, I found I got an IJ move reliably every turn. 

If you don't want to swap in a second gg unit take the Ironfist, you need it. Even the difference between 4" and 5" is pretty big.

[Lysandestolpe]

I just purchased my tickets to Heat 1, since I'll be in Europe at the time.

I'll be representing Ironjawz! wooop.

I have one dumb question. At these tournaments, will I be able to use a "Bloodtoofs" battalion even if my army isn't painted like the "Bloodtoofs"?

[BunkhouseBuster]

47 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

I just purchased my tickets to Heat 1, since I'll be in Europe at the time.

I'll be representing Ironjawz! wooop.

I have one dumb question. At these tournaments, will I be able to use a "Bloodtoofs" battalion even if my army isn't painted like the "Bloodtoofs"?

Per the recent Firestorm fiasco and swift response from GW, no.  A precedent was set in their Firestorm FAQ that your army does not have to be painted in certain colors to get special rules for other armies.

[Lysandestolpe]

3 hours ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Per the recent Firestorm fiasco and swift response from GW, no.  A precedent was set in their Firestorm FAQ that your army does not have to be painted in certain colors to get special rules for other armies.

Cool! Thank Gorkamorka...

[shaywarren18]

I’ve got another rules question. Can I bring as many warchanters as I wish and use the buffs as many times as possible? And do they stack?? 

[Noggab]

So about bloodtoofs.. Can you use this battalion in pitched battle? If so, how does getting triumph work? 

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, Noggab said:

So about bloodtoofs.. Can you use this battalion in pitched battle? If so, how does getting triumph work? 

All I can think is that it's for tournament play but...

Oh and yes you can use it for matched play. Ask the tournament organiser what they want to do about the triumph. 

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Noggab said:

So about bloodtoofs.. Can you use this battalion in pitched battle? If so, how does getting triumph work? 

I'd say the Triumph thing won't have any effect, it's just a little touch for Open Play.  The major victory triumph table is not in use in Pitched Battles - only the table for coming in under on your points.

In a tournament setting it's hardly fair that Player B is punished based on your game against Player A.

[PlasticCraic]

On 11/9/2017 at 3:58 AM, shaywarren18 said:

I’ve got another rules question. Can I bring as many warchanters as I wish and use the buffs as many times as possible? And do they stack?? 

In Matched Play you would be capped by the number of heroes you can take which is 6...but other than that, go for it!  And yes they do stack.

[tolstedt]

That was odd...

Anyway the list

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Trait: Brutish Cunning 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
3 x Grot Wolf Chariots (120)
- Allies

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 200 / 400

 

[Skumbaagh]

Is it possible to get another warchanter for the ardboyz? I really dont see the use of the footboss. I suppose it depends on how you want to use the ardboyz.. 

[tolstedt]

2 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

Is it possible to get another warchanter for the ardboyz? I really dont see the use of the footboss. I suppose it depends on how you want to use the ardboyz.. 

I'm thinking of Duality of Death.

[tolstedt]

If anyone is interested, if you honor gorkamorka by charging over deadly terrain with the mawkrusha four times you will chain destructive bulk in your opponent's charge phase and wipe three units with 18 mortal wounds and they will concede.

This has happened to me 100% of the time I've done it.

[Malakree]

I just need everyone to take a moment and dream with me. Dream that the ironskullz boys could fill a slot in the Ironfist.

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
- General
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ironsunz (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

Dream of days gone Waaagh!

[Nico]

I don’t think that’s an accident - they know that Gordrakk inside a Battalion = GG.

[sporadicMike]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

I just need everyone to take a moment and dream with me. Dream that the ironskullz boys could fill a slot in the Ironfist.

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620)
- General
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ironsunz (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

Dream of days gone Waaagh!

I'm still confused, ironskull boyz have ardboyz keyword. So why can't they fill a slot in the ironfist?

[Nico]

The requirements for those Battalions are unit names - they are not bold text keywords.

[tolstedt]

Two more chain charges over deadly terrain today with the krusha meant dead mournfang and thundertusk.

[Brakkus]

Super pumped to announce that I was able to pick up a second cabbage! Final piece assembled tonight. Glued and clamped in place. Waiting on magnets for the boss/gordrakk on top as well for the big ugly to the base and then it's double maw krusha time!

Anyone have experience with this type of list? It's almost half of a 2k list, so not a lot of room for wasted points. The waaaaggghhhh has grown quicker than expected 

[muggins]

On 11/6/2017 at 5:36 AM, Malakree said:

@SirPug so having played my first major tourney this weekend the big thing is found, as other better players did years ago, is that the unit of 5 brutes just doesn't compete with the unit of 10. It's night and day, not least is that the unit of 10 impacted with a monster/hero and ate it. The unit of 5 bounced off occasionally and only made their points once. Not least that it doubles the worth of the warchanters buff.

You're also going to find you are slow as hell. I'd recommend dropping at least 1 of the 5s for a second unit of goregruntas. There were several times I would have murdered for an extra cav unit and even at 4 (I didn't finish 2 of them in time) they pulled their weight.

The footboss is worthless, he's way to slow and doesn't actually do anything. He's good at lower points values but for 2k he is bad. The main reason to take him is rerolling 1s on brutes which should be irrelevant if you target them properly.

You need a cabbage, its so important in so many ways. The two footboss are 280 together meaning you are only 160 points shy of replacing them both with a cabbage.

A second chanter is amazing, I was running 5 IJ heroes, and a grot, I found I got an IJ move reliably every turn. 

If you don't want to swap in a second gg unit take the Ironfist, you need it. Even the difference between 4" and 5" is pretty big.

I'm doing the team tournament at AdeptiCon. My partner is taking Death. I really haven't played much, with most of my games being under the old GH with all the speed shenanigans. So I have 1000 pts to take - I'm looking at this:

 

Megaboss

3x Gore Gruntas

Five brutes with hand weapons

Five brutes with hand weapons

Ten brutes with gore hackas

Should I be thinking about this differently? I do have access to a cabbage. 

[Malakree]

46 minutes ago, muggins said:

Megaboss

3x Gore Gruntas

Five brutes with hand weapons

Five brutes with hand weapons

Ten brutes with gore hackas

Should I be thinking about this differently? I do have access to a cabbage. 

So first point. This is largely theory crafting. I'm presenting ideas with thoughts on how they would work. Consider them and use them to inform your own theory crafting. Don't take them as gospel.

Do you know what kind of death army he is running? Is it elite or large blocks to tarpit. Obviously you want to tailor your army to compliment his.

In a vacuum I would say the following, where are your chanters, and, you know you will be slow as ****** right?

That said 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 640 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
 

Is a solid core for 1k. Depending on what your ally is bringing and what you have avaliable model wise there are some intresting ways to go from here.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Grot Rock Lobber (100)
Grot Rock Lobber (100)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 980 / 1000
Allies: 200 / 200

So the 3 more ggs can go as a separate unit or as a 6. 

This list is you bringing some heavy skirmish/shock cav(3/6) and the arti support. You are really lacking in staying powered but can delete heroes in any and all forms. If the death army is putting up big blocks and a couple of heroes it should complement it well.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
 

So an extra unit of 6 ggs and a chanter makes you an amazing elites attachment to the death army.

Your army divides into 2 distinct parts, the chanter+megaboss+brutes mean you actually don't need to sic em on heroes to brute^tm stuff. With the +1 and rerolling 1s they are hitting on 2s rerolling 1s which will chew up even chaff.

The other portion is the cavalry portion. Roughly equating to a unit of shock cav and a unit of heavy skirmish cav. With them you are  easily able to threaten any objective, wizard, ranged or arti that you couldn't otherwise reach. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Bestial Charisma 
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner 
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 140 / 200
 

This is your heavy infantry core army. If the death player is running a more elite/ fast army this let's you walk up the middle and fight stuff.

The key things of intrest here are 2 blocks of 10. This is to allow your Megaboss a 2/3 chance to buff both with inspiring presence. You're also trying to abuse the reroll 1s to hit and wound rather than a chanters +1 to hit. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 990 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200

Lastly is the rogue list. No brutes is painful but this list means you care way less about battleshock. With the Skewer nearby your ardboyz are bravery 9 in combat. You get the wizard to spam mystic shield onto them. Ironically the odd one out here is the footboss, he could be replaced by a Wurrgog Prophet if you wanted to give you casting options.

This list is bringing the anvil and the objective threat. It's for freeing up your death ally to do a more bizarre list as it covers most of the bases itself.

If you decide on this go read my post on ardboy weapons. You are a meatgrinder rather than a heads man's axe. You have to be GOOD with your pile in and casualty removal to really get the most out of the ardboyz. Done well they will bog down huge swaths of your opponents armies. Done badly they are an expensive 10 brutes without the kill potential.

[muggins]

That's some great stuff, I'll definitely go through it more tomorrow. My only limit with some of those lists is I only have three gore gruntas and I don't know if I'll get more as they're extremely expensive. Perhaps I could get another big box but tbh I have a TON of brutes already. 

 

My buddy is just starting so will likely be trying to get this box:

- A Neferata, Mortarch of Blood;
- 2 Morghast Archai, wielding spirit halberds; 
- A Wight King; 
- A set of 20 Skeleton Warriors; 
- A set of 10 Grave Guard. 

[PlasticCraic]

48 minutes ago, muggins said:

That's some great stuff, I'll definitely go through it more tomorrow. My only limit with some of those lists is I only have three gore gruntas and I don't know if I'll get more as they're extremely expensive. Perhaps I could get another big box but tbh I have a TON of brutes already. 

The Start Collecting box could be your answer - it only costs about $3 more than the Gruntas from memory, and you get a Warchanter + 10 Ardboyz in there too (virtually for "free" relative to buying the Gruntas on their own).  I don't know how many Ardboyz you already have, but dual Warchanters (and 6 Gore Gruntas) will certainly be handy as you move up to 2000 points, so you won't just be sinking  dead money into this one event - the stuff you're getting will continue to be useful.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, muggins said:

That's some great stuff, I'll definitely go through it more tomorrow. My only limit with some of those lists is I only have three gore gruntas and I don't know if I'll get more as they're extremely expensive. Perhaps I could get another big box but tbh I have a TON of brutes already. 

 

My buddy is just starting so will likely be trying to get this box:

- A Neferata, Mortarch of Blood;
- 2 Morghast Archai, wielding spirit halberds; 
- A Wight King; 
- A set of 20 Skeleton Warriors; 
- A set of 10 Grave Guard. 

OK so your buddies list is guna look like this then.

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
Wight King with Sword and Infernal Standard. (120)

Battleline
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Deathlords Battleline
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
5 x Grave Guard (80)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
- Deathrattle Battleline
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 980 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200

If he's using exactly this list then he will have a nice flanking force and some reasonable chaff. If he's deviating from this base he could get 2 extra morghast and go for a Deathlords army. Pick up a flying vampire and that's one hell of a flying cav army. In that case you want a brutefest with or without ardboyz so that he can pick and choose his moment.

If he goes mass by grabbing more Skeletons then he fills the anvil role so you are more free.

There is one extra option I would now list that you could run. I didn't before because I like to stick closer to the original theme provided by you.

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200

This is the monster mash combo. I have litterally no idea how good it would be.

Essentially Neferata and the cabbage become buddies and ravage anything they feel like.

The brutes sit 2 ranks into a nice huge block of Skeletons as they walk forward providing a tasty spear line for anyone who charges said Skeletons.

The ardboyz and grave guard then hang out defensively and hold objectives or flank.

Really cheesy lists which are based around having 900 points of monsters between you both.

[muggins]

9 hours ago, Malakree said:

So first point. This is largely theory crafting. I'm presenting ideas with thoughts on how they would work. Consider them and use them to inform your own theory crafting. Don't take them as gospel.

Do you know what kind of death army he is running? Is it elite or large blocks to tarpit. Obviously you want to tailor your army to compliment his.

In a vacuum I would say the following, where are your chanters, and, you know you will be slow as ****** right?

So after reading again, slowness is my main worry. I was actually thinking about bringing an ironfist instead of one brute mob to counteract that. I didn't bring a warchanter because I wanted to focus on getting more bodies in the list.