Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, DantePQ said: It's really well written BT, a lot of options a lot of different builds, not so obvious choices for example Battlelines : I am still torn between big unit of Witch Aelves(possible 120 Attakcs) vs Sisters of Slaughter (possible 60 Attacks, but 4+ save in combat near Cauldron, bucklers, 2'' range., 6'' pile in) also 30 SoS for 300 pts is just sweet. There is merit to choosing any of two. Heartrenders are flat out amazing as they can be support but you can build army around them.T hey will be annoying to the enemy (and put pressure on the opponent to force mistakes) Blood sisters are great because they are good without any buffs and become terryfying with buffs. Another way to pressure opponent - he will never know which unit you will buff that's why for example Mindrazor is amazing - it's awesome spell no matter what unit you will buff. - big block of Witch Elves with 120 Attacks ? For rend alone it's worth - Blood Sisters ? Welcome nasty with -2rend and possible 2 damage on 3+,3+ unit. - Slaughter Queen Cauldron ? WOW - Shadow Queen Morathi ? Just mindblowing even with 6 W left on Morathu. Also between Heartrenders, running and charging witches, swap spell, and many abilities to redeploy this army is really mobile. Opponents will have to make a lot of tough decisions. And what's the best part from first look DoK are best when using all the tools together and isn't any monobuilds (maybe huge swarm of Heartrenders in Shadow Patrol in Khelibron Temple/Cult, which could be scary but even tough you won't be able to buff them comfortably so there is no way it would be as good as for example Clown-Car) The main problem with taking 30 WEs is that not all 30 are going to be able to be in range for their attacks. With the 6" pile-in and 2" reach on 25mm bases, the SoS will have a better shot at getting all 30 in. They also activate their pile-in from 6" of the enemy... say for some reason you fail your 5-6" charge - you would be able to activate them in the combat phase and move into the enemy. I could see this as potentially devastating and unpredictable for the enemy, but the output is not nearly as scary as the WEs with their multitude of attacks. The unit of 30 also poses a problem in that you have to be "wholly" within range of the Cauldron of Blood, which can be an issue as they take damage, and the positioning of the SoS would have a bigger impact. I definitely think that a buffed up 30-block of SoS has its merit in a massive regiment. Heartrenders and Blood Sisters are going to be my favorite units, based on the leaks thus far. Their versatility and output is just great. Heartrenders are fairly frail, so I'm unsure if I will be going for Khaillebron or Hag Narr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 That's why for reasons you mentioned I love Sisters of Slaughter but I'm still torn on their equipment to go with bucklers or extra attacks, bucklers will be much better if I need them to bunker on objective but I don't know if that's worth losing 1A on the other hand 20 Witch Aelves will be great for pure damage with knives as they can generate 80 Attacks and you're right it might be diffcult to bring all of them into combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, DantePQ said: That's why for reasons you mentioned I love Sisters of Slaughter but I'm still torn on their equipment to go with bucklers or extra attacks, bucklers will be much better if I need them to bunker on objective but I don't know if that's worth losing 1A on the other hand 20 Witch Aelves will be great for pure damage with knives as they can generate 80 Attacks and you're right it might be diffcult to bring all of them into combat. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure the best option, but given the scenarios, I'd say it's always good to have a 30-strong unit, and SoS with bucklers can still dish out some pain especially with Mindrazor. The only problem is that if you take 30 and sit on an objective, they're probably going to be hitting the other one. I don't want to say it's a "waste," but there are some tactical problems with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aranthir Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'm in the middle of painting second unit for my DoK army. I've painted 10 Wtiches with knives and 10 Sisters of Slaughter with bucklers but I am not sure which option should I assemble next as I have another 40 waiting in boxes. Could someone help me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: Yeah, I'm not 100% sure the best option, but given the scenarios, I'd say it's always good to have a 30-strong unit, and SoS with bucklers can still dish out some pain especially with Mindrazor. The only problem is that if you take 30 and sit on an objective, they're probably going to be hitting the other one. I don't want to say it's a "waste," but there are some tactical problems with it. Yep that's why I am not sure, also SoS have huge discount for 30 so it isn't profitable to field 20 at all. Sure it depends on the scenario as well. Also worth noting is that 30 SoS with knives what lose another attack with no hero nearby (and that could be a problem for witch elves later on) Should I consider 30 SoS with knives then ? Wow it's hard to decide I don't know if bucklers what be a waste, they do not protect against shooting and in combat I should be good as there are other ways to make them surive. 5 minutes ago, Aranthir said: I'm in the middle of painting second unit for my DoK army. I've painted 10 Wtiches with knives and 10 Sisters of Slaughter with bucklers but I am not sure which option should I assemble next as I have another 40 waiting in boxes. Could someone help me ? I feel your pain, still can't decide but 30 witches with knives for a start is a safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedatkinszed Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: The main problem with taking 30 WEs is that not all 30 are going to be able to be in range for their attacks. With the 6" pile-in and 2" reach on 25mm bases, the SoS will have a better shot at getting all 30 in. They also activate their pile-in from 6" of the enemy... say for some reason you fail your 5-6" charge - you would be able to activate them in the combat phase and move into the enemy. I could see this as potentially devastating and unpredictable for the enemy, but the output is not nearly as scary as the WEs with their multitude of attacks. The unit of 30 also poses a problem in that you have to be "wholly" within range of the Cauldron of Blood, which can be an issue as they take damage, and the positioning of the SoS would have a bigger impact. I definitely think that a buffed up 30-block of SoS has its merit in a massive regiment. 2 This is a good point. TBH I'm looking at WAs and SoS in units of 20 max (I know I'm missing out on the discount but it's a cost-benefit call). If my unit is too big to benefit from the Cauldron what's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Do we know what the cost for 30 witch aelves is yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, GammaMage said: Do we know what the cost for 30 witch aelves is yet? I guess they stayed with 100/270. 10% Discount when you get 30 seems logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Hmm. Not sure it's enough to get me to play 30. It's nice for some battleplans, but a lot of points for a unit that's gonna play defense. Maybe they'll make an nice screen for the melusai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Why would 30 witch aelves play for defense ? Buffed with cauldron + Hag narr + rerolls they are as tanky as blood sisters in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, GammaMage said: Hmm. Not sure it's enough to get me to play 30. It's nice for some battleplans, but a lot of points for a unit that's gonna play defense. Maybe they'll make an nice screen for the melusai? I believe DoK will be played best using the old adage "the best defense is a good offense". I plan on going straight for my opponent's throat with everything but Morathi and maybe a single unit of Stalkers. I think I'll find out rather quickly whether that strategy works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Can someone tell me what bases size I need for Morathi, Witches, Cauldron, Blood Sisters, Medusa and Heartrenders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said: The main problem with taking 30 WEs is that not all 30 are going to be able to be in range for their attacks. With the 6" pile-in and 2" reach on 25mm bases, the SoS will have a better shot at getting all 30 in. They also activate their pile-in from 6" of the enemy... say for some reason you fail your 5-6" charge - you would be able to activate them in the combat phase and move into the enemy. I could see this as potentially devastating and unpredictable for the enemy, but the output is not nearly as scary as the WEs with their multitude of attacks. The unit of 30 also poses a problem in that you have to be "wholly" within range of the Cauldron of Blood, which can be an issue as they take damage, and the positioning of the SoS would have a bigger impact. I definitely think that a buffed up 30-block of SoS has its merit in a massive regiment. Heartrenders and Blood Sisters are going to be my favorite units, based on the leaks thus far. Their versatility and output is just great. Heartrenders are fairly frail, so I'm unsure if I will be going for Khaillebron or Hag Narr. On the table its rarely an issue. I play with 40 ghoul blocks all the time and they spread across multiple units, spread around units. Most of the time to get a good 30+ in without issue. Having to try to get a unit of only 30 in is going to be a breeze for me. The only issue comes from a really low charge distance - this is where SoS are going to really shine, where you can turn a bad charge into a massive long pile in + 2" attack and get all your attacks in regardless. From the way I play, I'm not worried about getting 30 WE in at all, so SoS would be as a backup unit where one get into their 1/2" and the rest are attacking 2" over the back of the WE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yep after some consideration Bucklers aren't very good. 5+ save won't save them much in combat as they should maul majority of unit's in combat and if they are losing they will be gone anyway. If extra save worked against shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, DantePQ said: Yep after some consideration Bucklers aren't very good. 5+ save won't save them much in combat as they should maul majority of unit's in combat and if they are losing they will be gone anyway. If extra save worked against shooting. They only benefit they have is that they get the 6+ bounce back before modifiers are applied. So chuck them into meat grinder units like kurnoths or brutes and fling back some lucky 6's then, with martyrs sacrifice a third of your looses will be mortal wounds deflected back. So if your lucky you'll get 15 mortal wounds bounces back if you loose all 30 with the bucklers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Keldaur said: Why would 30 witch aelves play for defense ? Buffed with cauldron + Hag narr + rerolls they are as tanky as blood sisters in combat. Well, Matched Play has some scenarios with objectives you capture with a unit of 20+ models. Thus, They now have to hang out at the objective to keep control of it. 21 minutes ago, DantePQ said: Yep after some consideration Bucklers aren't very good. 5+ save won't save them much in combat as they should maul majority of unit's in combat and if they are losing they will be gone anyway. If extra save worked against shooting. I'm going for them mostly to scare people. My opponents are already terrified of me playing Sisters of Slaughter for some reason, despite the fact that up till now I've been playing Darkling Covens. I also think they look really cool. Actually, that's the main reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The list I'm currently thinking of below. Would be interested to hear thoughts? Couple of points I'm guessing at, so might have got wrong. Also don't know actual names of lots, so just put what they do. Kraith Cult (-1 to hit from shooting) Medusa (general). Artefact=re roll 1s and +1 to cast. Spell=Mindrazor (140) Morathi. Spell=+1 to wound an enemy unit. (480) Hag Queen on Cauldron. Prayer=2 hits on a 6+. (300) Hag queen. Prayer=boost a unit on the blood rites table(60) Witch aelves x10 (100) Witch aelves x10 (100) Blood sisters x20 (480) Doomfire warlocks x5. Spell=-1 bravery (160) Heartrenders x10 (160) 1980 total. Think I might end up playing with some of the spells. Also tempting to drop the hag or 5 Heartrenders to boost the Medusa into a Bloodwrack Shrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @Lhw dropping Hag for Bloodwrack Shrine sounds legit, aren't you afraid that you have too little bodies ? But it looks solid all around army. I like witches in 10 because people will ignore them and they can be deadly when buffed with 40 Attacks Does anybody knows what size of bases Khinerai are on ? 32mm, 40mm ? And single Avatar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulksmash Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I just feel naked nowadays if I'm not fielding 100+ wounds on my non-character models. That'd be my only concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhw Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Thanks @DantePQ. I don't really like horde armies, is main reason for the lack of bodies! Yeh, think small units got some use. White dwarf makes it look like 32 for wing guys, 40 for the snakes. @Hulksmash used to playing sylvaneth, so very rarely hit that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Lhw said: The list I'm currently thinking of below. Would be interested to hear thoughts? Couple of points I'm guessing at, so might have got wrong. Also don't know actual names of lots, so just put what they do. Kraith Cult (-1 to hit from shooting) Medusa (general). Artefact=re roll 1s and +1 to cast. Spell=Mindrazor (140) Morathi. Spell=+1 to wound an enemy unit. (480) Hag Queen on Cauldron. Prayer=2 hits on a 6+. (300) Hag queen. Prayer=boost a unit on the blood rites table(60) Witch aelves x10 (100) Witch aelves x10 (100) Blood sisters x20 (480) Doomfire warlocks x5. Spell=-1 bravery (160) Heartrenders x10 (160) 1980 total. Think I might end up playing with some of the spells. Also tempting to drop the hag or 5 Heartrenders to boost the Medusa into a Bloodwrack Shrine. I think it looks great but I think kraith is the wrong temple for the list. HagNar protects your snake investment so much better and improves their offensive capabilities. I don't think losing the teleport would damage the list too terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @Richelieu Problem with HagNar in that kind of army is that Medusa isn't hard to be blasted away and 5+ FNP works only within 7'' of General. You won't hide Medusa and don't want to have her near combat but to cast spells from afar. With only 6W she would be toasted pretty soon. Putting her on a Shrine helps here as it doubles her W she won't be able to hide but it will be diffult to hide her anyway. And Kheliborn (-1 to hit) protects Medusa better. Hag Nar works really well with SlaughterQueen as she will survive a lot with right artefacts/prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulgzhakar Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Some inspiration for modeling your Daughters of Khaine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Has anyone noticed that, with the introduction of Temples, GW has basically addressed the issues with battalions? You get cool customization options for you army with powerful benefits that don't restrict your army composition. The customization benefits are no longer tied to granting an extra artifact The customization benefits are no longer centered around 1-dropping. You can still take battalions that are less powerful and less expensive to get small benefits and access to additional artifacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traitor Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Okay, so I've got 50 witch bodies. Would you guys go for 30 WE & 20 SoS or 20 WE & 30 SoS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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