Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

10 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Yeah, taken with temple nest and pumped up to a 3+ with shield+cauldron and the 5+ FF rerolling...I think this unit is maybe the most durable in the game.  You think it's hard to shift 30 wounds of Vulkites?  40 wounds with a 16.66% better armor save and 5.55% better invulnerable save is bonkers.

Yep, I love the look of the Melusai Blood Sisters, and their statline is great as well.  20 seems a bit excessive due to limited reach, but their output is scary.

[DantePQ]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

Yeah, taken with temple nest and pumped up to a 3+ with shield+cauldron and the 5+ FF rerolling...I think this unit is maybe the most durable in the game.  You think it's hard to shift 30 wounds of Vulkites?  40 wounds with a 16.66% better armor save and 5.55% better invulnerable save is bonkers.

Sure but it's almost whole army  as you would have only 290 pts left (Temple Nest with 20 Sisters, Cauldron, 3x10 witches) 

 

[stratigo]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:53 AM, zedatkinszed said:

Arguably Morathi was always the more evil one of the pair. To borrow from DnD, she might now be "Neutral-Evil" in AOS but back in the day she was full on "Chaotic-Evil". Malekith was never "Chaotic-Evil" he may have been "Lawful-Evil" for most of WHFB history but End Times proved that he was actually right all along and the HE screwed him so in ET he became "Lawful-Neutral" (and Tyrion became either "Chaotic-Good" or "Lawful-Evil" and then "Lawful-Good" again).

As regards Tyrion's marriage to Morathi it'll be interesting to see what GW do here. I have a feeling (from the video yesterday) that they'll just forget about that but we'll see. But then again I might be reading into it too much

 

forgetting pretty much everything the end times did to the elves would be best. I mean, I am upset how they treated the dwarves, but at least they were just assassinated and not character assassinated. The elves got the worst retcons. Malekith has killed, legitimately, millions and enslaved millions in pursuit of his hurt feelings.

[Edgecoc]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

 

forgetting pretty much everything the end times did to the elves would be best. I mean, I am upset how they treated the dwarves, but at least they were just assassinated and not character assassinated. The elves got the worst retcons. Malekith has killed, legitimately, millions and enslaved millions in pursuit of his hurt feelings.

GW can sometimes be the Larry David of games.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

 

forgetting pretty much everything the end times did to the elves would be best. I mean, I am upset how they treated the dwarves, but at least they were just assassinated and not character assassinated. The elves got the worst retcons. Malekith has killed, legitimately, millions and enslaved millions in pursuit of his hurt feelings.

Haven't dwarves also killed millions over hurt feelings (grudges) same with boris todbringer and kazarak or any character really 

[stratigo]

5 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Haven't dwarves also killed millions over hurt feelings (grudges) same with boris todbringer and kazarak or any character really 

 

Khazrak is... a beastman. He's unashamedly evil. Boris has certainly not killed millions. Indeed, his kills are mostly in defensive wars against, you know, beastmen.

 

I'm not sure collective racial guilt is on the dwarves for one or two pursuing bad grudges, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a wrongful grudge from the dwarves anyways.

 

Malekith has personally caused millions of deaths. It would be like if hitler came back and was made the president because he totally was right all along. Whether or not you want to go with the retcon that Malekith could have been phoenix king and the nobles cheated him, it doesn't erase his response being to murder millions over repeated wars he launched and set up a slave and murder society. Malekith is an evil dude, and the end times tried to pretend he wasn't.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

It's matter of perspective. they might not see themselves bad evil. A norscan growing up wouldn't think he is evil, it's just there way of life. Same with beastmen, or orcs.

An elf cut off a dwarfs beard and that started a whole war.... but it'll grow back, all they had to do was apologise not murder each other!

The only true good race is our scaly overlords the lizard men who are above petty emotions, hurt feelings and grudges ???

[Hulksmash]

20 Blood Sisters for 480 is solid. That's a nice discount for them for taking them in bulk and makes them a happy target of lots of buffs. Honestly if it wasn't for their mortal wound output they'd still be overcosted it feels like but that 480 makes it worth it. Otherwise I'd never run more than 10 in a single unit.

 

Why does everyone seem to not like the Doomfire Warlocks much? I see them as a 10 wound, 10 shot, 20 CC attack mage with a 14" movement and access to the lore of magic. All for 160pts which seems solid.  

[Lucentia]

Doomfire Warlocks were good, necessary even, when they were basically the main mortal wound output for the army, as well as being the fastest unit (plus battleline to boot) now that there are other options in that regard they are perhaps not so essential, also no longer battleline.

I still think they're pretty good though, being the same points as before whilst gaining a fair few bonuses, I'll probably be looking to include at least one squad where possible.  They are very fragile though, and their bravery doesn't help that.  Their shooting and combat is not really anything to rely on either (though they added rend is handy), and it can be quite tricky to marry their good movement with their magical output, plus they have no way to get casting bonuses outside of arcane terrain, so they can't be relied on for any important spell, more of a back-up option.

That said I think their still a pretty solid choice.

[Azurious]

52 minutes ago, Hulksmash said:

20 Blood Sisters for 480 is solid. That's a nice discount for them for taking them in bulk and makes them a happy target of lots of buffs. Honestly if it wasn't for their mortal wound output they'd still be overcosted it feels like but that 480 makes it worth it. Otherwise I'd never run more than 10 in a single unit.

 

Why does everyone seem to not like the Doomfire Warlocks much? I see them as a 10 wound, 10 shot, 20 CC attack mage with a 14" movement and access to the lore of magic. All for 160pts which seems solid.  

Im with you on the doomfires. I want to fit 1 or 2 5 man units in to try them out. I also think against certain targets or with the right support they could be an underestimated supprise when hit with mind razor, 20 attacks at 2 dmg, 10 at rend 2, 10 at rend 1 isnt to be sniffed at.  Bravey 6 makes them a less ideal target for it initially but if you can get them near a statue and hit your op with a bravery debuff they could pack a supprising punch.

 

This flexibilty across the army to make things perform roles you wouldn't expect is one of my favourite things about this release

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, Hulksmash said:

Why does everyone seem to not like the Doomfire Warlocks much? I see them as a 10 wound, 10 shot, 20 CC attack mage with a 14" movement and access to the lore of magic. All for 160pts which seems solid.  

That's a good way to frame it.  The only thing holding me back from using them is simply how amazing or other options are.  I want at least a unit of 5 Heartrenders, and have already expressed how impressed I am by blood sisters.  That's not even mentioning how good of battle line we have.  With the new rules witches can be effectively fielded in  both small and large units.

[Silphid]

Looking at this picture, trying to figure out base sizes for the blood stalkers and harpies, im tempted to say the harpies are on 40mm bases which would mean the snake ladies are on 50mm... whats your opinion?

Im trying to plan out a purchase of scenic bases and im getting the feeling all these models are on larger bases that originally thought.

[Twitch of Izalith]

2 hours ago, Richelieu said:

That's a good way to frame it.  The only thing holding me back from using them is simply how amazing or other options are.  I want at least a unit of 5 Heartrenders, and have already expressed how impressed I am by blood sisters.  That's not even mentioning how good of battle line we have.  With the new rules witches can be effectively fielded in  both small and large units.

I think i might need some sort of intervention from my gaming buddies to get over how much choice I have now - after working with basically the same list for the last year and just messing around with some allies options...

I think Doomfires will still be a solid choice as a caster unit - a 10 wound 14" move wizard for 160 points is good even without considering the ranged and combat capability.

Heartrenders are probably my top pick from the new units at first glance. I'm going to try and do a list with maybe 3 units of 10. I think you need 10 to make them threatening enough that your opponent needs to deal with them and you can start pulling his units out of position with run and shoot and fire and flight.

Executioners are still a good ally option if you know you are fighting stormcast or sylvaneth or anything vulnerable to mortal wounds with limited access to -1 to hit debuffs - maybe not so much for an allcomers tournament list.

Can't wait to see what Idoneth Deepkin bring to the party also

 

[Hulksmash]

I like the Heartrenders too. I'm thinking a unit of 10 for similar reasons to the above. Because it's an actual threat and the number of attacks and a 50% chance to have a 3" charge is pretty great. Especially if your doomfires are close enough to cast our super power

 

And yeah, I'm excited for Deepkin to. Right now I'm going with a very greek monster theme so I've got medusai, harpy ladies, my doomfires will be half woman/half spider, and then I add some Hydra because they are good monsters and they fit the theme. But Deepkin could add some neat new stuff

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Silphid said:

Looking at this picture, trying to figure out base sizes for the blood stalkers and harpies, im tempted to say the harpies are on 40mm bases which would mean the snake ladies are on 50mm... whats your opinion?

Im trying to plan out a purchase of scenic bases and im getting the feeling all these models are on larger bases that originally thought.

Snake ladies are on 40s for sure.  Those Stormcast bases are 50 wide (I own them) and the snakes are clearly thinner.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I think i might need some sort of intervention from my gaming buddies to get over how much choice I have now - after working with basically the same list for the last year and just messing around with some allies options...

I think Doomfires will still be a solid choice as a caster unit - a 10 wound 14" move wizard for 160 points is good even without considering the ranged and combat capability.

Heartrenders are probably my top pick from the new units at first glance. I'm going to try and do a list with maybe 3 units of 10. I think you need 10 to make them threatening enough that your opponent needs to deal with them and you can start pulling his units out of position with run and shoot and fire and flight.

Executioners are still a good ally option if you know you are fighting stormcast or sylvaneth or anything vulnerable to mortal wounds with limited access to -1 to hit debuffs - maybe not so much for an allcomers tournament list.

Can't wait to see what Idoneth Deepkin bring to the party also

 

I'm trying to reserve my judgment for after I get them all on the table, but Blood Sisters, Heartrenders and Slaughter Queen on Cauldron all stand out to me.  The all-star though? the amazing allegiance abilities, from temples to spell lore to prayers.  It's all so good.

[Silphid]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

Snake ladies are on 40s for sure.  Those Stormcast bases are 50 wide (I own them) and the snakes are clearly thinner.

Thanks! That makes harpies 32mm then

[Undeadly]

Howdy! So, I'm a Death player primarily, but in my heart of hearts, I have always had a place for Snakes, Khaine, and exsanguination via Medusa gaze. So with the new book coming out, I am a bit curious about jumping into Daughters of Khaine. I especially dig the vast amount of units that can be created from a single Cauldron of blood. (2 priestesses, a Khaine Golem, a Medusae, and each one of those can also be suited on the Cauldron as well.) However, the problem is that I am by no means a fan of the basic Witch elves or sisters of Slaughter, and the Khinerai suffer because of that as well. 

From what I understand, is that if you take a Bloodwrack Medusae, you can take Blood Sisters as battleline correct? Now, from the way things look, the optimal starter for me would be to buy 2 boxes of Blood Sisters, and a Cauldron of blood. I do prefer the look of the Avatar of Khaine, so I would be more than happy to mount him on his own base. However, my main concern comes from the fact that it specifically says that you MUST take a Bloodwrack Medusae as your general. So, how does that work with the Bloodwrack Shrine? Does that not count as a Medusae, despite it being mounted on it? Because this would drastically alter the way I would assemble my army. 

Also, from what I can tell, just the Medusae and Blood sisters alone would come out to about 420(or 400 points if it remains 120, but  I doubt it.) It will be interesting to see how well they stack up once we see the full stat lines for this units.

[Richelieu]

4 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Howdy! So, I'm a Death player primarily, but in my heart of hearts, I have always had a place for Snakes, Khaine, and exsanguination via Medusa gaze. So with the new book coming out, I am a bit curious about jumping into Daughters of Khaine. I especially dig the vast amount of units that can be created from a single Cauldron of blood. (2 priestesses, a Khaine Golem, a Medusae, and each one of those can also be suited on the Cauldron as well.) However, the problem is that I am by no means a fan of the basic Witch elves or sisters of Slaughter, and the Khinerai suffer because of that as well. 

From what I understand, is that if you take a Bloodwrack Medusae, you can take Blood Sisters as battleline correct? Now, from the way things look, the optimal starter for me would be to buy 2 boxes of Blood Sisters, and a Cauldron of blood. I do prefer the look of the Avatar of Khaine, so I would be more than happy to mount him on his own base. However, my main concern comes from the fact that it specifically says that you MUST take a Bloodwrack Medusae as your general. So, how does that work with the Bloodwrack Shrine? Does that not count as a Medusae, despite it being mounted on it? Because this would drastically alter the way I would assemble my army. 

Also, from what I can tell, just the Medusae and Blood sisters alone would come out to about 420(or 400 points if it remains 120, but  I doubt it.) It will be interesting to see how well they stack up once we see the full stat lines for this units.

Bloodwrack Shrine has the Bloodwrack Medusa keyword, which is the requirement for taking Blood Sisters as battleline.

The blood sisters have a really superb stat line.  They're in the running for my favorite unit in the book.

[Undeadly]

4 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Bloodwrack Shrine has the Bloodwrack Medusa keyword, which is the requirement for taking Blood Sisters as battleline.

The blood sisters have a really superb stat line.  They're in the running for my favorite unit in the book.

Awesome, that's great news to heat! I always prefer running Hero's on larger mounts, if only because they survive longer and deal more damage. That should also help make it more justifiable in running the Golem on its own; Do you have a link to the stat lines for the new units?

[BURF1]

Nother fun list idea: Statue Boogaloo: No city, PFP=turn counter

SlaughDron Triple Prayer, Heal D3, +1 to PFP trait

Hagdron: +1 PFP Prayer

Hag Queen: Exploding 6s

Doomfires: Mind Razor

Iron Statue

Iron Statue

30 WE

10 WE

10 WE

10 Heartrenders

10 Heartrenders

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

10 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Doomfire Warlocks were good, necessary even, when they were basically the main mortal wound output for the army, as well as being the fastest unit (plus battleline to boot) now that there are other options in that regard they are perhaps not so essential, also no longer battleline.

I still think they're pretty good though, being the same points as before whilst gaining a fair few bonuses, I'll probably be looking to include at least one squad where possible.  They are very fragile though, and their bravery doesn't help that.  Their shooting and combat is not really anything to rely on either (though they added rend is handy), and it can be quite tricky to marry their good movement with their magical output, plus they have no way to get casting bonuses outside of arcane terrain, so they can't be relied on for any important spell, more of a back-up option.

That said I think their still a pretty solid choice.

Isn't there a battalion and/or city/coven for allegiance that allows the setup/teleportation of a unit?  I wonder if this can be performed in the hero phase to allow a 6 mortal wound doom spell into their lines, haha.

 

[DantePQ]

Yes there is such battalion it's 2xDoomfire Warlocks and 4 units of Khinerai.

I think my favorite unit is Heartrenders, great tactical tool, keeps your opponent at bay. I will run 2-3 units of 5, units of 10 aren't good unless you're going with mentioned battalion but it would make it quite expensive. More units = more chance to roll extra move on 4+ and are harder to kill by opponent. 

Doomfire Warlocks are in a tough spot, if you want additional spellcaster Medusa has some advantages like ability to take items which are very powerful (casting two spells a turn or +1 to cast and re-rolls of 1) and is cheaper. Otherwise they are cool but that's it, compared to other units maybe they are overshadowed by new stuff. For sure I will try that battalion with teleporting so I will use two units of warlocks but I don't know if monobuilds are viable option for DoK. Teleporting is fine but you can do this with Kheliborn and Heartrenders anyway.  

[Twitch of Izalith]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

I think my favorite unit is Heartrenders, great tactical tool, keeps your opponent at bay. I will run 2-3 units of 5, units of 10 aren't good unless you're going with mentioned battalion but it would make it quite expensive. More units = more chance to roll extra move on 4+ and are harder to kill by opponent. 

All those abilities for an 80 point unit is awesome isn't it  Apparently the playtesters got GW to tone them down a bit from their original rules (Source, Dan Heelan).

I'm not sure about unit size. Its hard to say without any actual games played yet. I think a bigger unit is more likely to trigger an opponent into chasing after them & it will hold up better if they get in combat. But 5's will be more versatile and maybe better for board control. 

I'm definitely going to do a build with lots of them in and see how it plays though. There are so many different options its going to take me a while to playtest them all

Do you know their Range, Bravery & Base size?

[DantePQ]

It's really well written BT, a lot of options a lot of different builds, not so obvious choices for example Battlelines :

I am still torn between big unit of Witch Aelves(possible 120 Attakcs) vs Sisters of Slaughter (possible 60 Attacks, but 4+ save in combat near Cauldron, bucklers, 2'' range., 6'' pile in) also 30 SoS for 300 pts is just sweet. There is merit to choosing any of two. 

Heartrenders are flat out amazing as they can be support but you can build army around them.T hey will be annoying to the enemy (and put pressure on the opponent to force  mistakes)

Blood sisters are great because they are good without any buffs and become terryfying with buffs. Another way to pressure opponent -  he will never know which unit you will buff that's why for example Mindrazor is amazing - it's awesome spell no matter what unit you will buff. 

- big block of Witch Elves with 120 Attacks ? For rend alone it's worth 

- Blood Sisters ? Welcome nasty with  -2rend and possible 2 damage on 3+,3+ unit. 

- Slaughter Queen Cauldron ? WOW

- Shadow Queen Morathi ? Just mindblowing even with 6 W left on Morathu. 

Also between Heartrenders, running and charging witches, swap spell, and many abilities to redeploy this army is really mobile.  Opponents will have to make a lot of tough decisions.

And what's the best part from first look DoK are best when using all the tools together and isn't any monobuilds (maybe huge swarm of Heartrenders in Shadow Patrol in Khelibron Temple/Cult, which could be scary but even tough you won't be able to buff them comfortably so there is no way it would be as good as for example Clown-Car)